138 replies to this topic

[Anio]

Hello,


You just need to read the tittle to understand that the model I'm going to present is a marvel.

The instruction has not been released yet. But as a test builder, I had the privilege to get it 2 weeks ago.

Oh, if you had seen my face when I got the instruction...

I was like Gollum with his precious... Or Sheldon Cooper with Leonard Nimoy's napkin, if you see what I mean.  

I had THE instruction of THE supercar most Technic fans dream of...

What was hard was to wait for all the parts. Because when I got the file, I was still waiting for pretty big BL orders.

Well, this morning I get the last ref I needed : 4 very light gray liftarms.





What should I say first ?
Well, building this Concept Car was one of the best building experience I ever had !

The car is nice and has a well executed shape. The interior is interesting. Only few well located parts, and the whole interior seems to be gray.
For a car, we also have some basic features : doors, hood, trunk. Not so impressive, but it helps to make the car realistic.

What really impressed me the most is that everything is so well engineered.
Everything is very carefully designed. The build is modular (even more modular that 8448), all the parts fit perfectly together.



Something jaw-dropping is when you put the gear box on the chassis. You could nearly throw it into the car for it just to fall at the right place !
The dashboard of the car is very strong too, no matter how uncommon the angles are.

Actually, with very few parts, everything is linked together to make the build very strong.




The instruction is also stunning. I've seen some very clever trick to make the build strong and surprising. Example, on the front axle :




When you look at the chassis, the model seem to be very simple. Everything is optimised. But trust me, it is damn hard to build in a simple way.
Nearly each part, whatever it is a connector or a "L" shaped liftarm, is used at his full potential. Each part has a reason to be. It's amazing.


Regarding the features, we quickly understand that this Concept car is designed to be like a real car. It has a very high educative value compared to the Supercars Lego may release today.

All the wheels have independent suspensions. And I've NEVER seen suspensions working so well. They are strong and smooth at the same time. Just look at the video. On the front, the back or the side, I only use one finger to play with these suspensions.
Ok, the chassis may touch the ground sometimes. Nevertheless, that's nothing compared to how well executed the suspesions are !

The steering mechanism is also much more smooth than 8448, thanks to the 12t/20t gears. One turn of steering wheel is enough to steer from the left to the right (or the right to the left :p).
Some people may regret that the is no HOG.
A HOG ? What for ? Do not forget : this Concept Car is meant to work like a real car ! So, you steer with the steering wheel.

The transmission is interessting because you can choose between 3 modes : A wheel drive, front-wheel drive, or forward-wheel drive.
It is very easy to switch from a mode to another. Under the gearbox, there is no differential.
That's very understandable. Indeed, if only one of the 2 axles drives, all the power would leave to the non driving axle (don't know if my sentence is clear O_o).
The gearbox is the same as 8448 regarding the gears, but it is studless.

With the reverse gear, the frictions are very high. But if I remember correctly, 8466 and 8448 also had this "problem".
Other gears work fine. :)

The engine can be located at the back of the car. Well, personally I prefer when it is at the front.


The video :




So my conclusion : when instruction is released, make everything you can to gather all the parts and build this beauty !
You will not regret it !
Indeed, it is IMO better than 8448. Well, to make things even more clear, it is the best super car I've seen so far.  





Thank you, Mister Kuipers for this stunning model!
And thank you Joshua for creating such a beautiful instruction !


PS : I have Nathanaël's agreement to show you these 2 pages.  


edit : do not forget that the easiest way to gather all the parts of this Concept Car is to use Rebrickable : http://rebrickable.c...l/concept-car  

And a comprehensive review on SeTechnic : http://www.setechnic...chnic-NK01.html

Edited by Anio, 05 September 2011 - 09:35 AM.

[DLuders]

We are all jealous of you, Anio!      We can't wait to obtain Joshua Delahunty's building instructions to fully enjoy Nathanael Kuipers' masterpiece!  

[Meatman]

Anio, I thought that the car could only be switched to either front or rear drive because of no middle differential?

[bord4kop]

When I read this praise I had a feeling like; "my my, now this person seems a bit too enthusiastic"  

But then I took a second look at the posters name..
And since it is you, Anio, you have seen and build (!) quite some masterpieces before.. So this car must be something really special indeed!!

Is there a parts list available yet?
So I know what to get at Bricklink

Corrected name to Anio

Edited by bord4kop, 11 August 2011 - 02:47 PM.

[Anio]

Meatman, on 10 August 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

Anio, I thought that the car could only be switched to either front or rear drive because of no middle differential?

No, AWD is possible too. :)
With AWD and no middle differential, it works fine. Like 8265 or 8459, for example.

bord4kop, on 11 August 2011 - 07:44 AM, said:

So this car must be something really special indeed!!

Oh yes, it is !  

bord4kop, on 11 August 2011 - 07:44 AM, said:

Is there a parts list available yet?
So I know what to get at Bricklink

As far as I know, no, there is no file to get the right part list in few seconds.
You have to create your own part list in a wanted list, with that inventory :
http://img12.imagesh...1107191p204.png
http://img685.images...1107191p205.png

[Meatman]

Anio, one question, If the front and rear are engaged and the car is driven in a circle, what is preventing the gears from binding up at some point? wouldn't the front and rear be turning at different speeds when steered? I know if it is driven in a straight line it would be fine. I was under the impression that a 3rd diff box was always needed to prevent this. Much like the new 8110 Unimog. Or maybe I am just reading too much into this.

[Anio]

Meatman, on 11 August 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

I was under the impression that a 3rd diff box was always needed to prevent this.

It is indeed just an impression.  
The 3rd diff is an option.

[Meatman]

Anio, on 11 August 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

No, AWD is possible too. :)
With AWD and no middle differential, it works fine. Like 8265 or 8459, for example.

I think the reason why those 2 models work is because the speed never changes because the wheels are never actually "steered" the steering is actually a pivot point in the middle of the vehicle thus keeping the drivetrains consistently turning at the same speed.

Anio, on 11 August 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

It is indeed just an impression.  
The 3rd diff is an option.

I know that I am no where as advanced in technic building as some of you guys here, could you explain exactly how it is possible to have the front and the rear working together if they are not turning at the same speed(Like when being steered)? It seems to me that eventually one or the other is going to cause something to fail with no 3rd to make up the difference.

I could see this working if maybe a tire slips every so often.

[Chasealex]

The geartrain on the 8265 DOES get wound up due to no centre diff. I believe that the model is accurate though, and that the real thing lacks a centre differential.

I drive Land Rovers offroad quite regularly. The centre differential is always locked once offroad (where you get enough slip to relieve any tension), but having it locked on the road causes damaging gearbox wind-up, and increased tyre wear.

Clearly this isn't a problem on A) Dirty great front loading mega-shovels used in slippery quarries and B) lego models of the same. A little slip is expected.


You would never have an AWD road car without a centre differential as it would understeer like an absolute animal, and understeer feels like failure.

Edited by Chasealex, 11 August 2011 - 05:06 PM.

[Blakbird]

bord4kop, on 11 August 2011 - 07:44 AM, said:

When I read this praise I had a feeling like; "my my, now this person seems a bit too enthusiastic"

But then I took a second look at the posters name..
And since it is you, Anio, you have seen and build (!) quite some masterpieces before.. So this car must be something really special indeed!

If there's one thing we all know about Anio, it is that he is not afraid to say so when a model sucks! So when the review is highly positive, that means something.

Quote

Is there a parts list available yet?
So I know what to get at Bricklink

I've created a Brickstore file using the PDF inventory. I'd be happy to share it once the instructions are released.

[Anio]

Blakbird, on 11 August 2011 - 10:36 PM, said:

If there's one thing we all know about Anio, it is that he is not afraid to say so when a model sucks! So when the review is highly positive, that means something.

I take this as a compliment.  
I have indeed a very critical eye.
If I can be pretty harsh with some models, on the contrary, on other models, I can give a very positiv opinion.
In fact, it would be unfair to use his critical eye only to give negativ opinions.  

[Meatman]

What is the story with the instructions anyways? Where can they be found or when and are they free or will there be a small charge? Anyone?

[Gekke Ted]

Meatman, on 12 August 2011 - 12:01 AM, said:

What is the story with the instructions anyways? Where can they be found or when and are they free or will there be a small charge? Anyone?

I was wondering the same thing. Wouldn't mind paying something for it, so I can also build this lovely model.

[Paul Boratko]

Gekke Ted, on 12 August 2011 - 01:24 AM, said:

I was wondering the same thing. Wouldn't mind paying something for it, so I can also build this lovely model.

I am going to be hosting them for Nathanael at my site... As soon as everything gets finalized on Nathanael's end, I will make a thread(Or just bump this one) to let everyone know...

[Gekke Ted]

Paul Boratko, on 12 August 2011 - 01:40 AM, said:

I am going to be hosting them for Nathanael at my site... As soon as everything gets finalized on Nathanael's end, I will make a thread(Or just bump this one) to let everyone know...

Awesome!!  

[DLuders]

On his website, Crowkillers posted these details of Nathanael Kuipers' Concept Car building instructions:  "208 Page High Quality Instructions in PDF format with Full Parts List Prepared by Joshua Delahunty for building the 1,458 piece Concept Car designed by Nathanaël Kuipers."

[EDIT] "Full instruction Download $15"

"Login and Password for access will be provided after funds have been processed and then sent to the e-mail attached to your Paypal account. If there are any problems, please e-mail me at pb3@crowkillers.com and I'll be sure and help you promptly."

"Model features:
* Studless fully customizable Modular design.
* Working 5 Speed Gearbox with Reverse
* Full 4 Wheel Independent Suspension
* Fully Functional Steering System
* Drive train can be selected from either Front or Rear Wheel Drive
* V12 Engine that can be either front or rear mounted
* Opening Doors, Hood, and Trunk"

Edited by DLuders, 15 August 2011 - 07:41 PM.

[Tomahawker]

Looks like Crowkillers updated the page.  It's $15 to download the instructions.

[Gekke Ted]

Tomahawker, on 15 August 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

Looks like Crowkillers updated the page.  It's $15 to download the instructions.

Great!!

[allanp]

My opinion (for what it's worth!)

8880 is still the best, then this car in second, then 8448 in third, which is a HUGE achievement considering this uses no new parts like the other two. But (and take note TLG!) considering that TLG DOES have the ability to create new parts to make their sets better, I would expect a new flagship supercar from them today to be better than the 8880.

[Meatman]

allanp, on 15 August 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

My opinion (for what it's worth!)

8880 is still the best, then this car in second, then 8448 in third, which is a HUGE achievement considering this uses no new parts like the other two. But (and take note TLG!) considering that TLG DOES have the ability to create new parts to make their sets better, I would expect a new flagship supercar from them today to be better than the 8880.

Personally I always thought the 8880 car was kind of ugly and unrealistic.

[Milan]

Why investing so much time in creating HQ instructions, and then asking money for it?
Simple photos of partially opened modules would have been enough, and free.
If it is meant to be shared, of course.

[Meatman]

Milan, on 15 August 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

Why investing so much time in creating HQ instructions, and then asking money for it?
Simple photos of partially opened modules would have been enough, and free.
If it is meant to be shared, of course.

Why wouldn't you ask for some compensation if you spent so much time? $15 for a 208 page instruction file doesn't seem very unreasonable at all.

[Anio]

allanp, on 15 August 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

My opinion (for what it's worth!)

8880 is still the best, then this car in second, then 8448 in third, which is a HUGE achievement considering this uses no new parts like the other two. But (and take note TLG!) considering that TLG DOES have the ability to create new parts to make their sets better, I would expect a new flagship supercar from them today to be better than the 8880.

Milan, on 15 August 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

Why investing so much time in creating HQ instructions, and then asking money for it?
Simple photos of partially opened modules would have been enough, and free.
If it is meant to be shared, of course.

In general, I'm not a fan of the idea which consits in selling his instruction.
I prefer the idea of offering his work for free and wait for people to be fair and give the money they want.
As a test builder, that's what happened for me. And of course, after I get the instruction, I gave money. Well, if I would have been compelled to buy like many of you probably will, I would have done so.

My point is that if a MOC really deserve to be sold, trust me, it is this one. I know 8880 well, and this concept car is IMO much more impressive.

One more thing : 15$ is a rather small amount of money regarding the VERY high quality of the model and the instruction.

@ Milan : you spend so much time to provide HQ instruction, or to design MOCs that are optimised down to the last part, or whatever because you are a perfectionist. And you appreciate when the job is very well done. And then, when you look at the final result of your own work, you think "Yes, I did it !".

Edited by Anio, 15 August 2011 - 10:15 PM.

[xikin]

Which sets do I need to build this?

[Milan]

Anio, on 15 August 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

@ Milan : you spend so much time to provide HQ instruction, or to design MOCs that are optimised down to the last part, or whatever because you are a perfectionist. And you appreciate when the job is very well done. And then, when you look at the final result of your own work, you think "Yes, I did it !".

We agree on this one entirely.
But once again, why asking money for trying to satisfy your own desire and need for perfection?
This is a hobby of ours which should gave us the "Yes, I did it !" feeling every time when we create a HQ MOC or HQ instructions...15 bucks cant do that for me.