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Redcoats vs bluecoats


21 replies to this topic  – Started by Gahrian , May 30 2011 08:04 AM

#1 Gahrian

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:04 AM

Hello, please forgive my grave ignorance on the matter of redcoats vs bluecoats, but I need to clarify this to avoid blunders in the future.

I tried searching but could find no direct information on the nature / background of the different factions that back up the usage of them in many mocs. It's clear from many MOCs that Redcoats and Bluecoats are enemies. Are there some background information available where I can learn more about the factions and the conflicts?

1) Is it as simple as "England vs France" analogies?

2) Or is the fact that Bluecoats are the oldest of the factions and thereby the "young dumb masses of redcoats" are put up against the hardened veterans of the Bluecoats?

3) Some work may hint that the Bluecoats are simply another division / class within the large empires forces? Or is this just the work of ignorant builders (like me) meddling in the great conflict?

4) And maybe, just maybe, there is a much deeper link between ones true alignment and the factions. So that all people ultimately belongs to the bluecoat or redcoat camp even if they have never even touched a piece of LEGO?

Technically (and clearly only a sidenote in this context) I understand that the "Bluecoats" are the "Imperial Soldiers" from the 89-93 era. While the "Redcoats" are the Imperial Guard from the 92-94 + 2009 era. Both only sided as the enemies of the Pirates, and have never occurred together in LEGO "prime fiction"? Brickipedia reference: Imperial Guards / Imperial Soldiers

Thank you for all and any information that can help clarify a confused mind.
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#2 Captain Becker

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:12 AM

Well, most of us thinks at Redcoats are Briish and Bluecoats are French. So for me its so simple. And maby TLC also though about this when they made bluecoats and after that the redcoats.

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#3 Bart

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:33 AM

the blue coats are Dutch ! when do you guys learn  :hmpf_bad:

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#4 Horry

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 10:32 AM

I personally use the bluecoats to represent officers of the Royal Navy, while the redcoats are used to impersonate soldiers and officers of the sea soldiers.
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#5 Brig. Brick

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:58 PM

I don't think that red or blue coats represent a real country, their flag are diferent (specially the crown in each one)

their mutual hatred stems from the ambivalence of colors: red and blue ... would have been like a fight between white coats against black coats.

but I know that it is related to the bluecoats have more forces on the ground (more soldiers, better forts), and the readcoats have more power on the seas (more and better ships, like the 10210)

but if you look on the troops, there are two fractions of redcoats (old and new) and other faction that nearly everyone puts them little attention, which is the Armada, perhaps by the short time they were in the Lego collection
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#6 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 04:23 PM

As the posts above (and this thread) make clear, everybody has a different opinion about this :pir-classic:
Fact is that most British members here prefer redcoats, and Bluecoats are much more often referred to France instead of another country.
I think that's about all you could say about this. Everyone can make up his own story about this as long as Redcoats are against Bluecoats and vice versa.
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#7 rriggs

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 05:37 PM

View PostHorry, on 30 May 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

I personally use the bluecoats to represent officers of the Royal Navy, while the redcoats are used to impersonate soldiers and officers of the sea soldiers.
I agree on this one and do the same with mine.  They're all together against the pirates.

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#8 laka

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 06:41 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 30 May 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

As the posts above make clear, everybody has a different opinion about this :pir-classic:
...
I think that's about all you could say about this. Everyone can make up his own story about this as long as Redcoats are against Bluecoats and vice versa.

Just as Admiral Croissant says, everyone can make up his own story. I mainly have blue coats, but also a few of the new red coats. When I was a child, the blue coats defended the West Indies colonies of the Kingdom of Legoland. And I still consider it that way. What the red coats represent, I haven't thought about yet. Probably, they will be of another unit, but from the same faction.
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#9 red coats rule

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 10:43 PM

personaly i like having a third party.Redcoats and Bluecoats are about the same
but another nation would add a new range of possibilities such as alliances or new wars to be fought. But enough of my ideas. I think that the Bluecoats and the Redcoats are the same. Empires rise and fall. the redcoat empire  could of been built on
the destroyed bluecoat empire.

Edited by red coats rule, 30 May 2011 - 10:45 PM.

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#10 Phred

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 12:14 AM

View PostBart, on 30 May 2011 - 09:33 AM, said:

the blue coats are Dutch ! when do you guys learn  :hmpf_bad:
What is your source for this information?
Could it be possible that blue coats could be French OR Dutch?

View PostHorry, on 30 May 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

I personally use the bluecoats to represent officers of the Royal Navy, while the redcoats are used to impersonate soldiers and officers of the sea soldiers.
I also use this representation.

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 30 May 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

I think that's about all you could say about this. Everyone can make up his own story about this as long as Redcoats are against Bluecoats and vice versa.
Why can't we all just... ...get along? :pir-tongue:

I have some Dark-blue coats that represent American Marines and officers with a couple of red coats to represent the ship's band.
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#11 Captain Becker

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 07:17 AM

Also, i have seen some Bluecoats to be used as US soldiers and Navy sailors. This is my 2nd though about the side of the Bluecoats in my Lego world, i just can how ever imagine Bluecoats to be officers in my Lego world.

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#12 Bart

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 07:59 AM

View PostPhred, on 31 May 2011 - 12:14 AM, said:

What is your source for this information?
Could it be possible that blue coats could be French OR Dutch?

It's an opinion and a joke ;)

and Dutch marines used blue uniforms
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and everybody can have his own idea about it,
I only own a few redcoats and I use them as Marines
and the one bluecoat I have is an naval officer

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#13 brick-a-block

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 03:51 PM

Floating my opinion...

Given the lack of bluecoats I have - THREE!!! I only had one opportunity when I was younger to conceive these as the obvious opposition (historically) and that was when I built a small MOC of the Battle of Waterloo, with Welligton's army advancing and Napoleon's retreating. To balance the scene I supplemented a lot of other blue bodies, and either turned them upside down or the one's that were piratey I made them artillery soldiers or just plain corpses. Isn't LEGO exciting :D

For the most part I've used my original Redcoats which number SIX to represent a small force while my three Bludocoast came to represent the officers, perhaps not correct, but because my backdrop was mostly naval it fitted in well. Now I'm at odd's how to fit the new Redcoat design in with my older Redcoats. Do I make them Lieutenants, or if LEGO permits, with more Redcoats to come out (I hope, given the measly two redcoast thus far) perhaps they should be my privates and the older redcoats my officers. Making way for the Blucoats to be admirality.

It's a good thing for plumes and epaulettes otherwise I'd never get any sleep over the issue of distinguishing these minifigs.

I'm sure the great LEGO man in the sky is laughing at my dilemma.
I do hope we get more redcoats soon. Some of the navy-coloured East India Company soldiers from World's End would be nice too. A good way methinks for LEGO to reintroduce the Blue soldier. A different pattern to the current one would be nice too, more in lines with the movie.

#14 Phred

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 06:24 PM

View PostBart, on 31 May 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

and Dutch marines used blue uniforms
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I clicked, I saw, and... ...I don't know where I was going there. :pir_wacko:
They look pretty awesome.  They seem to be more of a dark blue though.  Are we caring about the darkness of the red or blue for people's coats?
I wonder if the US had copied them?

View Postbrick-a-block, on 31 May 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Given the lack of bluecoats I have - THREE!!! I only had one opportunity when I was younger to conceive these as the obvious opposition (historically)
Sounds like you need some Musketeers :thumbup:
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#15 Sebeus I

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 10:30 PM

I used to have this catalogue were there were small background stories.
And it said, the redcoat captain said the bluecoat captain was too lax with the pirates. (those captains had names but I forgot them)

that was written in a catalogue from when the redcoats where introduced, 1994 or so ?

Anyway, it seems to me they are not really enemies but rather two devisions operation in a different place until the redcoats decide that the bluecoats are doing a bad job

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#16 Bart

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 06:30 AM

View PostPhred, on 31 May 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

I clicked, I saw, and... ...I don't know where I was going there. :pir_wacko:
They look pretty awesome.  They seem to be more of a dark blue though.  Are we caring about the darkness of the red or blue for people's coats?
I wonder if the US had copied them?

If we start to care about the darkness of the colours then the end is lost,
your imagination is the limit with Lego, what you want it to be it is!

I don't know if the US copied it, maybe, but I'm not an Historicus.

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#17 Mister Phes

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 05:11 PM

But wait!  There's more!  Dreamweb created a thread on this topic 6 year agos - check out Imperial Guards: Bluecoat and redcoat uniforms

View Postred coats rule, on 30 May 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

personaly i like having a third party.Redcoats and Bluecoats are about the same but another nation would add a new range of possibilities such as alliances or new wars to be fought.[...] I think that the Bluecoats and the Redcoats are the same.
These be my thoughts as well!

But wait!  There's more!  Dreamweb created a thread on this topic 6 year agos - check out Imperial Guards: Bluecoat and redcoat uniforms

View Postred coats rule, on 30 May 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

personaly i like having a third party.Redcoats and Bluecoats are about the same but another nation would add a new range of possibilities such as alliances or new wars to be fought.[...] I think that the Bluecoats and the Redcoats are the same.
These be my thoughts as well!

For one, an older Governor Broadside appeared in 6242 Soldier's Fort alongside Red Coats.  Wouldn't make much sense for a French governor to appear alongside British troops without a highly ranking officer or dignitary present.

Secondly, if you look at the British and French uniforms, you'll note the French uniform differ from the English Naval uniform and in my opinion the bluecoat minifigures more closely resemble the British Navy.

Although a professional historian may be able to provide evidence of a period when the French uniforms were closer to the bluecoat minifigures.


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#18 red coats rule

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 06:39 AM

I just finished reading Gulliver's travels and both red and blue coats are similar to that of the factions in the story(Lilliput and Blefuscu)
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#19 Red Bricks

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 09:50 AM

I would use Red as British and Blue as French

#20 minifig3

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 10:10 PM

I think that Redcoats are the land force and Bluecoats are marines or sailors.

#21 Scorpiox

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 03:50 PM

View PostHorry, on 30 May 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

I personally use the bluecoats to represent officers of the Royal Navy, while the redcoats are used to impersonate soldiers and officers of the sea soldiers.

This is how mine work. I have one Admiral Woodhouse (Marine Major), one Redcoat officer (Marine Captain), two new Redcoats and two old (Marines). I have one Broadside (Admiral of navy), three Bluecoats with tricornes (Naval officers) and any number of pirates (sailors or sometimes pirates). I also have some Islanders (Ook Ook Ak Ook! :kahuka: ) I also have the CC and the old IF (CC is a naval ship and IF is Marine transport vessel)

My figs are not British, French, Dutch or American. They are from the Empire of Legoland, fighting Islanders and Pirates. I prefer to not get caught up in accuaracy or Red vs Blue.

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#22 SkaForHire

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 03:03 AM

View PostBart, on 01 June 2011 - 06:30 AM, said:

If we start to care about the darkness of the colours then the end is lost,
your imagination is the limit with Lego, what you want it to be it is!

I don't know if the US copied it, maybe, but I'm not an Historicus.

Bart


Maybe I can add some clarification, I  am a naval historian... There are two thoughts on the American uniforms, but in 1803 was when congress finally set a standard of Blue and Gold. The first thought was that blue was chosen because France wore blue also... but since the United States was involved in a quasi war with France in 1797 when the first actual regulations were written (in fact the whole American Navy was re founded that year to fight French commerce raiding) this is unlikely. The second thought is probably more likely, British officers wore blue coats. Every navy in the world wanted to be as up to date and as powerful as the Royal Navy. Emulation happened around the globe. It is likely that the United States copied the Royal Navy. Lastly, American Marines also wore blue coats, but they were much darker than the ones that Lego figs wear. By the style of dress, I would say that the redcoats would be British and the Bluecoats French during the 7 years war period.  That is only if we HAVE to assign a nationality.

So I would not say the blue coats were Americans, although I could see them as revolutionary officers, but not the Navy itself.  Actually, on another note,  the white duck uniform came about in the 1820s when it turned out that the American Navy did most of its work between the tropics and in South America.  So by 1820, you had "white coats."
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