189 replies to this topic

[Captain Blackbeard]

Wow, very good ship! I like the difference in cannons, with the larger below. BTW, the Flying Dutchman is a Galleon, not a Ship 'o' The Line. Notice the fact that the Dutchman's upper deck is sliced to include access to the lower decks, not unlike the carpentry area located in the middle of First Rates.
I like the color sceme, but I have yet to see the black-red scheme of the Spanish. Hm.
Well, great work! Keep it up!

[Sebeus I]

Though I'm very honored that my ship is used as a reference   I must agree with others that these two ships cannot be compared so easely, I'm not the expert and I haven't tried a ship-of-the-line yet so I can't really make a valuable judgement on this. I did view some ship-of-the-line schematics a while ago and I think I'd make the hull a lot different from the Dutchman's.
As for the tumblehome shape, I used a variant of Captain Greenhairs hinge technique but I used car hinge plates, which, like Frank Brick Wright stated, indeed change angle, over the lenght of the ship, not always as smooth but still. On top of that I used minifigure legs to change angle higher in the ship.
Anyway, keep it up!

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

I spent some time modifying the ship to lower the entire hull by one brick.  Overall I think it goes a long way to make the ship appear shorter, but puts the lower gundeck almost too close to the water.  Here is a comparison between the two with the old version:




And two side shots:



Im so used to the way it was originally that its hard for me to say which one looks better, that's what I have shipmates for!  Which version looks better to you?

DPW

[Cousarmy0001]

First off, excellent work!  This is a massive project, and you deserve credit not just for designing and undertaking it, but also for keeping with it.  The ship looks amazing- though I do not envy you the task of assembling the rigging for her.

I do tend to agree with the sloping in at the base, though.  You are correct in your statement, diagram, and Lego depiction of an actual ship of the line from the waterline upwards, but it still doesn't seem quite right (to me, anyway).  Something I learned in art class, that may apply to this, when you are reproducing an image, either from a photo or from reality, sometimes you have to over-emphasize a certain attribute of what you are drawing in order to make the drawing work.  Sometimes, even if you draw or paint something PRECISELY how it is in reality, it just won't look right to people, so you have to alter it a little to make up for that.

On the positive side, though, this could be just what you need to make up for your concern about the lower gun deck being too close to the water.  You said that you wanted the hull lower, but you want to raise the lower deck, why not add one or two layers of plates to the bottom of the hull?  This would raise the lower deck, while not raising the entire hull as much as a whole brick layer would.  Additionally, if you make the plate layer(s) smaller than the rest of the hull, it could make the hull appear to slope inwards just enough to remove the flat base impression that people have been talking about- and if you don't like it that way, just make your one or two plate layers flush with the hull as it is now.

[Captain Becker]

Im not a shipmaster or anything ut i say what i think of Her.
First off, i think the oler version looks better, and i know many of you may disagree whit me, but i think the gunports are a bit too close to the water line at the moment. Ill wait for further updates.

Captain Becker

[Bart]

I think the new one looks better. Like its fully loaded :)

Bart

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Bart, on 18 April 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

I think the new one looks better. Like its fully loaded :)

Thanks I agree... today at least   In honor of 20,000 views a lot of work was done this weekend since it was poor weather outside.  I cleaned up a lot of small details, like making the sides symmetrical and switching out various bits and pieces.  The bow is now finalized and I began working on some preliminary shrouds to see if the design would work.  It turned out to be quite easy to rig and very strong.  Here's how it looks:




The trick is to place twice as many these on the forecastle than the fighting top.  Then the shroud is one continuous line woven around the outside on the bottom and looped around one of the prongs on the top.  Here's what it looks like top and bottom:




This is really just a test, I think the shrouds are a bit too thin but I like the technique.  Here's a shot of the finalized bow with doors finally!  The next time you see it the rigging will be completed at least from the bowsprit to the fighting top:



Still making more progress on the stern and will update as that develops.  Let me know what you think of the shrouds so far.

DPW

[Nefarious]

In awe. Fantastic work with the shroud design, can't wait to see it finished :) The entire bow is just wonderful with so many awesome details!

[Frank Brick Wright]

This is amazing! I specially like the way you used to attach the shrouds to the platform. I agree though that they look too thin, perhaps you could add another line from the middle portion of the 1x2 plates. Another way of attaching the shrouds which I am using and I also find more accurate is this:




Basically using technic pins with technic bricks. Are you going to attach the fore-topmast to the fighting top or is there another building process?

And the bow is also fantastic

[dafi]

DPW, I love it :-)

Just one thing, the shrouds are not correct as far as I can see. The lower shrouds go up through a hole (lubbers hole) in the fighting to and are fixed around the mast top. This means the one stone on the top of the top that is already there has to be made higher by some levels.

The shrouds from the topmast then will come to the deadeyes of the top. Those deadeyes are held down by the futtock shrouds which are attached at the lower shrouds.

Too complicated? The picture will show:



(Ignore the red circles, that was for something different)

All the best, Daniel

Edited by dafi, 22 April 2012 - 06:22 PM.

[Bart]

Looking good. I don't think they are to thin though I think they are good, especially when you add the horizontal lines and all those others.

Dafi is correct though, the shrouds are connected slightly different on the real thing. but it still looks good. and I would understand if you leave it like this.

But is it me or does the mast look bend? Keep an I on it when you put all the ropes on for the final model, It's quit easy to bend things when you put all on one side first and then on the other.

Bart

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Frank Brick Wright, on 22 April 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

This is amazing! I specially like the way you used to attach the shrouds to the platform. I agree though that they look too thin, perhaps you could add another line from the middle portion of the 1x2 plates. Another way of attaching the shrouds which I am using and I also find more accurate is this:

I like that method of rigging, but in this example it means that the platform is slanted upwards.  In my research the platforms are all parallel to the water on a ship of this size so Im not sure it would work.  Also it looks a bit thick by comparison.  Can it withstand vertical tension well?

dafi, on 22 April 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

DPW, I love it :-)

Just one thing, the shrouds are not correct as far as I can see. The lower shrouds go up through a hole (lubbers hole) in the fighting to and are fixed around the mast top. This means the one stone on the top of the top that is already there has to be made higher by some levels.

The shrouds from the topmast then will come to the deadeyes of the top. Those deadeyes are held down by the futtock shrouds which are attached at the lower shrouds.

I forgot the lubber's hole!  That is a major oversight for me since it is in my original plans .  The reason I rigged it this way is to give it an accurate appearance while being able to remove the fore topmast from the fore mast without having to undo the rigging.  But youre right it isnt 100% yet.  I think I have a solution that will be more accurate and include the lubber's hole as well.  I will experiment with it and see what I can do.

Bart, on 23 April 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Looking good. I don't think they are to thin though I think they are good, especially when you add the horizontal lines and all those others.

But is it me or does the mast look bend? Keep an I on it when you put all the ropes on for the final model, It's quit easy to bend things when you put all on one side first and then on the other.

I think I will end up using this line but I will wax it once it's in place.  It looks liked pitched rope once it's waxed and makes it a little thicker and sturdier.

The mast is bent, though the wide angle photo exagerates it quite a bit.  It is under tension but will be equalled once the other side is rigged too.   Good catch!

Thanks for the comments everyone, keep it up!

DPW

[Perfectionist]

It's certainly looking good, but may I ask you how stable your rigging is? After all you have to consider that the topmast, topgallant mast and sails will add considerable weight. Also moving the MOC around may cause poorly constructed masts to collapse.

I'd also like to note that by lowering your hull by one brick the guns are now much too close to the water; I liked the previous version better. Considering sleekness I'd recommend to lower the structure above the upper gunports, about where the working area is located (between the fore- and mainmast). Also take into account that minifigure illusion scale ships will always be "fatter" than both minifigure scale and historical ones, simply because the decks are too high relative to all other measures.

Your ship has always been and always will be one of my favorite MOCs in progress, so I'm really looking forward to any progress made.  

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Perfectionist, on 30 April 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

It's certainly looking good, but may I ask you how stable your rigging is? After all you have to consider that the topmast, topgallant mast and sails will add considerable weight. Also moving the MOC around may cause poorly constructed masts to collapse.

It is quite strong, even without the shrouds.  I should mention that there are long axles running the full length of the foremast and the fore topmast to add to the strength.  Here's a collage showing the parts of the fighting top and how the foremast and fore topmast are connected:



I think this version is much more realistic than my previous version, and even includes the lubber's holes!  I also had a chance to fit the shrouds to this new design and add a preliminary forestay.  The futtock shrouds still need to be attached, but I think the result looks very good:




Last weekend gave me a chance to assemble all four sections for the first time to see how everything fits together (the fourth being the stern galleries).  The ship is "naked" currently, without walls to work in the interior and finish up all of the cannons for placement, but it gives a unique view of the internals of this ship:



And one more for good measure:



This is the first time Ive attached the stern galleries which are removeable.  I will show more details on them later   Let me know what you think so far!

Dread Pirate Wesley

Edited by Dread Pirate Wesley, 08 May 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[Horatio]

Excellent! The Masts do look sturdy, and I'm glad that you didn't pursue the inverse slopes below the crow's nest- they did look a little out of place. It's also great to see the stern taking shape. Great Work!

[Nefarious]

I caught myself exclaiming out loud once I saw the bottom picture (which happened by accident, was scrolling quickly to the bottom to check for updates). It is absolutely magnificent. I was wondering how you were planning to continue the mast upwards above the fighting top, but your method seems very strong and it looks fantastic, as always.

This is also the first time we get a glimpse of the poop deck and the stern, I believe. I must say it really is starting to take shape.

Gorgeous, there really is no other word for it :) Very well done, I am so looking forward to seeing it finished completely!

In reply to Horatio - I think the plan is to add the inverse shroud slopes to connect to the outer rim of the fighting top? Or am I mistaken? At least the hoops for them are still there now. That said, on the previous update pictures the inverse slopes were a tad too large, but this seems to have fixed it, even if the inverse are gone (for the moment?).

[Frank Brick Wright]

I really can't express how much I admire this project. It is being developed in perfect accurateness and is of incredible proportions. I just hope that you will commit the stern to the same amount of detail you went on with the bow.

[Sebeus I]

That battle top looks excellent, the lower gun deck looks difficult to access but I suppose that doesn't matter much  
Keep it up!

Frank Brick Wright, on 09 May 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I really can't express how much I admire this project. It is being developed in perfect accurateness and is of incredible proportions. I just hope that you will commit the stern to the same amount of detail you went on with the bow.

Agreed, that bow is fantastic, I've been trying to copy it (especially the headrails) to use on my East-indiaman but I haven't figured it out completely yet  

[Legonardo]

excellent.   
waiting for more updates!
=Legonardo=

[SuperSirLink]

Are you planning on making the wall removable?

[matt22hew]

Fantastic! Only difficult part is finding where to display it, especially if you have a wife ;-)

[Captain Blackmoor]

matt22hew, on 10 May 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Fantastic! Only difficult part is finding where to display it, especially if you have a wife ;-)

Or a wife/girlfriend with a dangerous vacuum cleaner.

[Horry]

seriously, folks reading your posts makes me wonder if there are only girlfriends/wifes with hatred on LEGO   My girlfriend just chased me away from my boxes in order to try out a new sorting system she's come up with - will take me half a month to learn but afterwards always increases my building process  

ot: This is coming along lovely! And quite impressive with the stern galleries. Do you already have a plan for how to construct the mizzen mast?

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Horatio, on 09 May 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Excellent! The Masts do look sturdy, and I'm glad that you didn't pursue the inverse slopes below the crow's nest- they did look a little out of place. It's also great to see the stern taking shape. Great Work!

Nefarious, on 09 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

I was wondering how you were planning to continue the mast upwards above the fighting top, but your method seems very strong and it looks fantastic, as always.

In reply to Horatio - I think the plan is to add the inverse shroud slopes to connect to the outer rim of the fighting top? Or am I mistaken? At least the hoops for them are still there now. That said, on the previous update pictures the inverse slopes were a tad too large, but this seems to have fixed it, even if the inverse are gone (for the moment?).

I think you both are referring to different things.  Horatio I believe is talking about the inverted slope bricks on either side of the mast.  I used these as splices to add some strength but they are much to thick.  Nefarious I think is referring to the futtock shrouds, the lines that slope outward away from the mast to the fighting top.  The hoops are indeed to attach them, I had a go at it to see how it looks and Im quite pleased with the result compared to my first attempt:

Frank Brick Wright, on 09 May 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I really can't express how much I admire this project. It is being developed in perfect accurateness and is of incredible proportions. I just hope that you will commit the stern to the same amount of detail you went on with the bow.

Indeed it will be as detailed and accurate as possible.  Ships of this kind were not particularly ornate, so I will focus mainly on accuracy and clean lines.

Sebeus Iniwum, on 09 May 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Agreed, that bow is fantastic, I've been trying to copy it (especially the headrails) to use on my East-indiaman but I haven't figured it out completely yet  

It took many hours of tinkering and deep thought to get it right, but feel free to copy it   Id love to see how it would look on a smaller ship!

SuperSirLink, on 09 May 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Are you planning on making the wall removable?

No not exactly.  It is removable in the way that all Lego is removable, but it is not intended to be.  For play features the ship will be able to separate into 4 sections to access the insides rather than removing the hull walls.

matt22hew, on 10 May 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Fantastic! Only difficult part is finding where to display it, especially if you have a wife ;-)

Luckily I have an entire room dedicated to Lego.  She doesn't care as long as they stay there!  This ship has outgrown my building space and photo booth when fully assembled however, so for these latest photos I've commandeered the kitchen table  

Horry, on 10 May 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

ot: This is coming along lovely! And quite impressive with the stern galleries. Do you already have a plan for how to construct the mizzen mast?

I do have a plan, and it will be very much like the foremast only shorter.  I was trying to find a way to make the mizzen thinner but I don't think that will be practical with the height it needs to be.  Here is how the foremast stacks up with all of its pieces:



As you can see it is quite tall but still sturdy despite the forward step of the fore topmast.  Hopefully this will still be the case once spars and sails get hung from it.  I also came up with a solution for my least favorite part of the bow where the gunwalls meet the headrails.  The red circle in this picture shows the new solution and you can compare it with the previous images to see which one looks better to you.



The green circle shows where the boomkins attach to the forward bulkhead.  The boomkins will be lashed to the knighthead (black bit around the bowsprit) and are used as a forward leverage point.

Thanks for the comments everyone.  Im really enjoying this part of the build since most of the hull work is complete.  I will post more updates as she progresses.  

DPW

[Frank Brick Wright]

Dread Pirate Wesley, on 11 May 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

No not exactly.  It is removable in the way that all Lego is removable, but it is not intended to be.  For play features the ship will be able to separate into 4 sections to access the insides rather than removing the hull walls.

Are you sure that is a good idea? For my experience it is always better to split the vessel horizontally (in decks, I mean) than vertically. Specially when building such a beast wouldn't splitting her in 4 sections decrease her overall strength? I guess the ship weights quite something, so it might happen that it falls apart precisely in the separation of the sections. It is hard to estimate the connection strength just from photos (obviously you know if she is strong enough or not) but it just occurred to me.

And hardly the bow could be better Your solution is amazing (though it obviously wasn't bad before)