189 replies to this topic

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Avast matey's!

For my next project I thought Id do something a little different.  Usually when I post something it is mostly completed, but this time I wanted to share the progress of a much larger scale project from its beginnings. For this new endeavor I have chosen an under-represented class of ship in the Lego world, a third rate ship-of-the-line.  After extensive research and planning, I began toying with ideas in LDD.  This was really my first time using LDD to mock up a real build, mainly because the bricklink orders needed to be more or less precise to make it reasonably affordable. I focused more on size and shape than detail, I find it much easier to add detail in real brick than LDD.  Here's what I came up with:



This project will be entirely brick-built, using no prefab hull sections, brick-built cannon, and new levels of detail and realism than Ive achieved so far in Pickle or Praetorian.  It is not minifig scale (even though it's 24 studs wide) but by moving away from hull sections the shape is much easier to get in proportion.  She will be built from the waterline rather than a full hull, the reason for this will be revealed much later    
Heres a top view:



The hull will be made in sections, consisting of the foc'sle, mid-ship, and quarterdeck.  The cabin section and stern will also be removable and is one section I haven't fully conceptualized yet.  Heres the foc'sle detatched:



The interior will be fully finished, with at least 64 brick built cannon (I have 22 built so far) and will comfortably fit a minifig standing up.  The technique on the tumblehome uses standard 1x2 hinges (over 200 of them!) instead of hinge plates to get the right shape:



My first parts order arrived earlier this month.  As I begin the actual build I will post progress updates in this thread, culminating hopefully in a very large, one of a kind battleship:



Here's the Flickr gallery for this project. Stay tuned, any helpful comments and criticisms are greatly appreciated as this ship takes shape!



Dread Pirate Wesley

Edited by Dread Pirate Wesley, 01 May 2011 - 12:13 AM.

[Darth Yogi]

That looks like a really neat large ship.  Cant wait to see it in real bricks.

Great job

[Admiral of the Red]

Wow great job on the bow! It looks lots better than using 1x4 hinge plates to make the curve. Also, using 1x2 hinges for the tumblehome is, as you're sure to have found out already, really expensive  
Oh well, it looks great, so you can't complain, am I right?  
The only thing I would recommend is more of a curve near the bow, but otherwise from bow to stern it's a nice gradual decrease in diameter.

Edited by Admiral of the Red, 01 May 2011 - 07:28 AM.

[Sebeus I]

awesome, building from the waterline is a good idea, great for seabattle diorama's
prefab hulls are too small for a ship-of-the-line anyway,
keep it up

[Admiral Croissant]

Impressive! Looks like a great project and you made a good start.
I think you could add a small curve at the bow, and perhaps make the deck 1 or 2 studs thinner at the front.
Outside of that it just looks awesome. Good luck on this project!

[Captain Becker]

looks great so far, but im only wondering did you build it so at the hull will be strong enough, because if i look at your LDD model, it wont look like very good planned. Specially the bow seems to be very weak in LDD model, and there is some gaps you could try to fill. But i wih you luck whit this project.

Sebeus Iniwum, on 01 May 2011 - 06:45 AM, said:

Prefab hulls are too small for a ship-of-the-line anyway.

I have to disagree whit you in that, if we look  Bonapartes made Prince of Wales,  you notice at it is possible to make a good looking ship-of-the- line in prefab hulls.

Captain Becker

Edited by Captain Becker, 01 May 2011 - 06:27 PM.

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Thanks for the comments so far everyone!  I took some time this weekend to dive into the real bricks and see if the LDD design would translate well.  I started with the bow since that is probably the most unique and difficult section, heres what it turned out like "in the brick":



I added some preliminary head rails, they clip on the top and hold the three curved sections in place very well:


And then mocked up a very rough beak head.  With the bow construction the beak head will be all SNOT, but it has remarkable strength since it is attached vertically rather than at the bottom:


To answer Captain Becker's question about strength, with this design the bow attaches to the foc'sle at 4 points, giving it plenty of strenth in my tests.  I'll know more once I knock out the foc'sle section.  As you can see the internal structure of the three bow pieces is rather complex:


I do admit the bow is very bluff.  This is supposed to be an Ardent class 64 (for now) which was a very early design with a very bluff bow.  Here's a good view of a wooden kit of the same class without the head rails for comparison, courtesy of Model Ship World:


Next up is the foc'sle section and the gunwalls, let me know what you think so far!

DPW

[efullner]

Oh, that ship looks everso smart. I bet it could haul all the Welsh Coal in Brazil...or something like that.

[Bart]

Looking good :) I'm tuned in to see more

Bart

[Commander Red Hat]

I like your bow idea, I'm not so sure about how you made the rests in your LDD model.
Looking forward to see this evolve!  

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Captain Green Hair, on 05 May 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

I like your bow idea, I'm not so sure about how you made the rests in your LDD model.
Looking forward to see this evolve!  

Not quite sure what you mean there, but thanks!  The LDD model is only intended as a "pre-vis", or a proof of concept if you like to make sure the idea would work in real brick.  Ive found that anything in LDD so far translates to real brick, not the other way around in a lot of cases however. Heres my initial build of the mid-ship section which goes from the end of the foc'sle to the mainmast/quarterdeck.



The tumblehome turned out very nicely I think.  This is really a test to prove it will work and I will continue detailing it this week.  I also completed the foc'sle and put a few cannon in it to show the spacing and size:



For now it has standard lego cannon on the lower gun deck and brickbuilt 18 pounders on the upper gundeck.  Notice that I made the actual forecastle deck removeable, this is to allow access to the upper gundeck for detailing and cannon placement.  Once Im satisified with that it will be fixed.  Im planning on using 5 different bruickbuilt cannons for this ship of varying weights.  From right to left we have a 24 pounder great gun, 18 pounder great gun, 32 pound carronade, 12 pound carronade, and 9 pound carriage gun which will be used on the quarterdeck.



This weekend I will be detailing the foc'sle and mating it to the bow.  I also have a preliminary idea for the headrails so stay tuned!  Let me know what you think of the shape so far.  I have about 75% of the bricks required for this project so now its all about making it work.  Thanks for the comments!

DPW

[Squarepants]

I really like your techniques, especially the bow and the variety of cannons! Keep it up!

[Admiral Croissant]

Looks nice. I especially like how the small carronade turned out. Very realistic
Your ship technique seems good too, but I'm not sure about the curve inwards.
It curves more at the top than at the lower half, whilst on the picture of the wooden model you showed, it curves more inwards at the lower half.
So perhaps you could make the lower half more curved, and the top half less.
Good luck!

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Admiral Croissant, on 05 May 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Your ship technique seems good too, but I'm not sure about the curve inwards.
It curves more at the top than at the lower half, whilst on the picture of the wooden model you showed, it curves more inwards at the lower half.
So perhaps you could make the lower half more curved, and the top half less.
Good luck!

That's a very good point, and one that I think the model picture doesnt really show accurately from this angle.  I wish I had I picture of the same model from the bow, but here is the curve Im going for from the waterline:



As you can see it is a complex curve, being near to vertical at the waterline, and near to vertical again on the upper walls (not sure on the correct name).  With this technique, Ive really only built it so far up to the top of the upper gundeck.  Above that will be the walls of the forecastle or the quarterdeck which will return to near vertical.  Here is a picture from a mock up I did a while ago from some spare parts before I began the LDD model, it shows how the quarterdeck walls will appear to give it a more difinitive shape:



Hopefully that will provide the illusion of this complex curve and look correct compared to the plans.  If not, as you say I will have to adjust the gundeck walls to achieve it.  Thanks for the suggestion!

DPW

[Duke]

This is coming along very nicely.  Very good photos as well, I must say it makes a lot of difference when they are clear and against a white background.

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Time for a weekend update, Ive been pretty busy but managed to make some good progress.  My first goal this weekend was finishing off the forecastle section upper deck.  I placed the foremast and hatchway, stove pipe, and preliminary bell stand.  The post are for securing the sheets and tack lines.  Heres what it turned out like:



Next I wanted to mate the bow and foc'sle sections.  This was easier than I thought, there was very little finagling required to make it all fit together.  The bow is held on in 4 different areas, and can be lifted with out any sagging.  You can also see in this photo the block that will hold the bowsprit.  It is sandwiched between the upper and lower gundecks, hopefully providing enough strength to hold it up.



Here's a test with the bowsprit installed.  Definately a WIP picture so dont mind the mess, I thought it was interesting to see it with the walls removed on the foc'sle section too.



And finally for tonight I played around with some preliminary headrails, and how they would be attached.  They will not be red on the finished ship, but red was the most abundant 1x2 tile I had at the time.  I have a plate over the bowsprit connection at the moment, Ill have to get some different plates to make the mount accessible.



That's how she sits for the time being, waiting on another huge bricklink shipment.  The bow is nearly complete with some minor tweaks to the beakhead and lots of details.  Comments are appreciated!

EDIT: more photos on Flickr as always.

DPW

Edited by Dread Pirate Wesley, 09 May 2011 - 04:35 PM.

[Darth Yogi]

Great progress.  This looks so much better in bricks,  I'm sure you will have fun building this.

Great job

[Admiral Croissant]

Looks quite awesome already
It seems very historically correct and detailed to me so far. I only hope the masts won't become too thin or breakable.
Perhaps the figurehead part could be a bit higher but that could also be due to the camera angles.
And the catheads could look better with a bit more blue or black, but I know it's still a WIP.
Are you going to leave the cannons like that, or give them wheels?
Good luck!

EDIT: There was some empty space on the blog, and this is actually quite impressive, so:

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Admiral Croissant, on 09 May 2011 - 04:56 PM, said:

Are you going to leave the cannons like that, or give them wheels?
Good luck!

The standard Lego cannon are actually just place holders at the moment.  These are the two designs Ill be using on the gundecks, with the 24 pounder great-gun on the left and 18 pounder on the right.  I think Ill go with the mostly black design, though I like the red as well.



The catheads will most likely be black, I simply didnt have any 1x1 bricks in any color but yellow at the moment.  Blue is a good idea though, especially with blue headrails I think that would look rather nice.  What do you think of the tumblehome with the foc'sle walls in place?

DPW

[halfpenguinhalflego]

I absolutely love it! How much is it on Bricklink? As it looks like quite a lot! I love the brickbuilt cannons and also can't believe how much better it looks in the 'brick'. Good luck (not that it is needed) and I can't wait to see further progress!

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Admiral Croissant, on 09 May 2011 - 04:56 PM, said:

EDIT: There was some empty space on the blog, and this is actually quite impressive, so:

Ha thank you for the blog Admiral, happy to provide blog material!  Considering this is really only the first quarter of the ship I appreciate it.  Today I finally got all my bricklink orders in so I will make a lot more progress this weekend on finishing the bow and mid-ship.  Then the hard work really begins on the quarterdeck    

For an impression of size, here is a picture of the bow and mid-ship together with the Captain in the foreground.  Considering this is only half of the ship, this project is turning out to be even larger than I had imagined!



More updates coming soon...

DPW

[lightningtiger]

Goodness this is going to be one huge ship, excellent work so far 'DRW'.....love the cannons - great range of them for different tasks from taking out a ship from the waterline to anti-personal ones !
I look forward to seeing more of this wonderful ship......keep on drinking that rum !

[Admiral Croissant]

Looks awesome, but aren't you going to give the yellow gunlines a slight curve? Or perhaps only towards the stern?
Again, outside of that it's just awesome and very impressive

[Dread Pirate Wesley]

Admiral Croissant, on 20 May 2011 - 10:11 AM, said:

Looks awesome, but aren't you going to give the yellow gunlines a slight curve? Or perhaps only towards the stern?
Again, outside of that it's just awesome and very impressive

I haven't quite decided on the curved bow.  Models tend to suggest there is a slight curve from the first 3 guns, but then again ships tend to ride low at the bow under sail, giving it the appearance of curve as the gunlines run aft.  My main reference for this is the paintings of Geoff Hunt, who has done far more research than I have!  Since Im building from the waterline at first I will start the curve at the quarterdeck and see how that looks.  For now, time for a weekend update:



Here's how she sits from the foc'sle.  Over the weekend I focused on the bowsprit, the headrails, the round houses, the catheads, and the gratings.  Heres how the head turned out, a few bricks are not the correct color yet:



From above, you can see how the deck pieces fit together with the gratings.  I had to redesign the gratings and the headrails slightly to make everything fit together with the bowsprit and to give it more strength, but I liked the way it turned out:



And the redisigned headrails and catheads from the front.  I wish the hawse holes were slightly higher, so I'll tinker with that a bit more:



I also wanted to make the timberheads more accurate.  The drawings in this book helped immensely, I just needed some more super bricks to make it look the way I wanted with the railings:



The 32 pound carronades fit really well in the timberhead gunports, here you can see how the swivel bases work giving them good range of motion.  They just sit on a jumper plate under the gunport:



More pictures on Flickr.  Next up I will start to get the quarterdeck in shape before detailing any further. C&C are appreciated!

DPW

[Admiral Croissant]

You're building quite fast   I think everything looks great, but I have a few suggestions.
Compared to this picture, I think your headrails (especially the top beam) could be curved a bit more.
And I suppose your bowsprit isn't the final product, so you could make the overlap part of the two sections longer, and all black.
And the rest is awesome   Keep it up!