24 replies to this topic

[Dreamweb]

17b

I came across this one some time ago on MOCpages. I'm quite surprised it hasn't been discussed here yet, so I decided to create a thread about it.
I'll wait with my own comments until later, now I'm interested in what you think about it. For now I can only tell you it's one huge ship!  :-)



The brickshelf gallery is here, the MOCpages page is here.

[Captain Roger]

Well, to be sincere...is really huge and i don't like that because i think smaller ships can attack this ship easily because it must ve really slow...

I think SES with only 4 cannons could attack this ship and win.

But i must admit that ship could be great for be used like a merchant ship...but it seems a military ship

[Mister Phes]

Captain Roger is right.  THIS IS HUUUUUUGE!!!

So far I've only seen the first image and it seems quite colourful, maybe too colourful.  However given its size it probably needs a bit of colour to prevent it from looking to monotonous.

Also note the wallpaper in the background - its the same as the wall paper I used to have in one of my bedrooms...  Many moons ago...

[oo7]

It has an good color coorordination and has lots of great details, but it is too tall compared to its length. The bow is also too low compared to the real model.

[Jacob C.]

The bow is a bit low and the ship isn't wide enough.
It's also too tall.
Other than that, it looks really good.

[ghoulrealm]

I like the slight inward slope of the hull sides(most tall ship mocs i've seen were 90degrees vertical.)  I also like the gun deck and the stern gallery. *y*  
I wish the bow was less blocky and I agree it's a tad bit tall for it's length.  

Keep it up though, the main reason I jioned this forum was to see MOC ships of this caliber.

[Mister Phes]

Given his inspiration in this painting I can see why Johnathan has made his ship so high...




Maybe it doesn't look too high in real life but when put into images it loses some depth.  I dunno.  Hard to tell without actually seeing it.

[Norro]

It also seems too tall for it's width tome, but I'm no expert...It would however blow the SES out of the water if it could get positioned correctly...

       God Bless,

            Nathan

[Mister Phes]

However, the bigger the ship the harder and slower they are to manoeuvre, so by the time this thing got into position the Skulls Eye Schooner would be out of range - so therefore I've contradicted myself because if that were the case then the Soleil Royal would never get into the correct positon!

I don't think comparing the Soleil Royal with the Skulls Eye Schooner is a fair comparission because one is limited to LEGO set design of the early 90's and the other is only limited by the number of pieces its creator has accumulated.

[Captain Roger]

I think SES is better because is faster...i said that before but i repeat because you said SR could crash the SES but i think SR can be defeated easily

[Norro]

Captain Roger, on Jul 6 2006, 07:54 PM, said:

I think SES is better because is faster...i said that before but i repeat because you said SR could crash the SES but i think SR can be defeated easily

Unfair as the comparison is... ;-)

One the SR opened fire the SES would be history if it was in range, and if it wasn't what damage would it be doing to the SR? When everyone talks about faster they seem to think that implies you could get into position to deliver a broadside without a return of fire (ala Nelson with his vertical columns) but even he endured several rounds while getting into position. Faster would normally only guarantee your ability to outrun the other ship, not necessairly fire without return...

       God Bless,

               Nathan (who is treadind in dangerous water which is both off topic and well beyond any area of expertise he may or not have...)

[Sean]

Wouldn't you consider the SES to be more agile however, because it is slightly shorter it could make quicker turns as well?

Of course, it depends on the captains more so I believe.  The SES may just use it's agility and speed to get behind the SR and take out the rudder and go from there.  

On the other hand, the SR could just turn the SES into firewood presented with the opportunity.  I guess it goes with who has the initiative.

Does anyone else really want to see this battle now lol?

[Norro]

Sean, on Jul 7 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

Wouldn't you consider the SES to be more agile however, because it is slightly shorter it could make quicker turns as well?

Yes, I'm just saying that nomatter how fast and agile if it stays within range odds are it will eventually come under fire (assuming the SR's captain is not incompetent).

Sean, on Jul 7 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

Does anyone else really want to see this battle now lol?

       Oh yes...

              God Bless,

                     Nathan

[Mister Phes]

Have you ever played Sid Meier's: Pirates!  Mr Norro?

Obviously this is a computer game and the physics aren't 100% true to the real world, but it does give you a good impression of how a ship handles in a combat situation.

[Captain Ironhook]

I have come to believed that the agile ships can continue sail away from the broadside of the opposing ship much faster and thereforth is a more difficult target.  The biggest problem I notice for this ship is it is too large for the pictures and it has prevented a wideshot that isn't too far away.  I wonder why someone would want to make a ship this big because it would take a lot of time, pieces and space.  I would rather build many ships for the resources this ship takes.

[Dreamweb]

Mister Phes, on Jul 2 2006, 08:11 PM, said:

Given his inspiration in this painting I can see why Johnathan has made his ship so high...

Agreed, the original ship is very high. However, I think this MOC would look better had he made the masts taller - for now they look short compared to the hull and to the picture of the real ship. In the real ship the masts are about 3 times as tall as the hull, while in this MOC they look just a bit taller than the hull (it's hard to tell as I couldn't find a good picture of the masts, this one is the best I found).

[Mister Phes]

You have a good point Mr Dreamweb, the masts and sails don't look big enough.  This ship probably would benefit from just sails which are bigger than those which The LEGO Company produced because they seem to be out of proportion with the rest of the ship.

[Sir Dillon]

I think this ship is very well built, but looks too tall for how wide it is. I think the builder would do better by making his own hull, and not using the pre-molded official ones. I also agree on that the masts should be taller, and the sails a bit bigger.

As for the SR vs. the SES, while I'm no ship expert, I agree with Norro. Because even though the SES may be a faster and more agile ship, in order to get the SR into their range, they need to sail into the range of the SR, which would blow them to pieces. *pirate*

[Mister Phes]

I'd say the builder has made about half of his own hull given the amount he has built upon the official LEGO hulls.   But I'm seeing your point Sir Dillion as the he could have made the ship wider, because I'm beginning to think it looks rather narrow for its size.

[Tordenskjold]

SR look a bit strange to me, when i first saw it.   very tall and the masts are to small.its out of proportions.  but as several pointet out, using the hull from the biggest ship(like BSB or SES) does limit the size you can build before it go out of proportions.    
but the ship look very nice to me.i like the color and all the small detail's ,
And to the Q of who would win between SR and SES. well that would depend of the situation.  a broadside fromSR would wipe out the smaller SES from the sea , but if SES could use their advantage in speed and shorter turning they could have a chance.   But a ship like SR is not intended to fight their own battle, as
the headline from Brickself say "102 gun ship of the line"  and if SR was used out of the line it would have other ships with it. smaller frigates and cutters .  a ship like SES would not have a chance tu use its speed and faster turnings if SR is heading straight for a convoy that SES ship is protecting. in that case SES would have to head straight for SR to prewent SR from crushing the Convoy.
you can read about a battle like that in Patrick O'Brian's book "HMS Suprise" .

[Mister Phes]

The Soleil Royal looks like it'll be taller than two Eldorado Fortesses stacked on top of one another!

[SkaForHire]

Mister Phes, on Jul 16 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

The Soleil Royal looks like it'll be taller than two Eldorado Fortesses stacked on top of one another!

True, but if this was all real the Eldorado Fortress would be some back water fort or part of a series of small forts guarding an entrace to a port or river... the SR would be the ship of the line along with atleast five others of her caliber and a whole host of smaller ships, most of which would be bigger then SES...

as for SES vrs SR... it would not ever happen for two reasons 1) SR's escorts would never let SES cross the SR's T (the only place that would be safe for the SES to attack on the SR) and 2) because the SES are pirates they would never attempt to attack a SOTL (ship of the line)

and if it did happen, the SES would run out of ammo before it even came close to damaging the SR. So then they would board the SR, and well if they even got onto the deck of the ship, the SR would wipe the floor with the SES, because they are trained marines and outnumber the crew of SES by as many as 10:1 and no less then 5:1

i think the MOCer did a good job with what he had.

[Tordenskjold]

SkaForHire, on Jul 20 2006, 04:38 AM, said:

Mister Phes, on Jul 16 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

The Soleil Royal looks like it'll be taller than two Eldorado Fortesses stacked on top of one another!

True, but if this was all real the Eldorado Fortress would be some back water fort or part of a series of small forts guarding an entrace to a port or river... the SR would be the ship of the line along with atleast five others of her caliber and a whole host of smaller ships, most of which would be bigger then SES...

as for SES vrs SR... it would not ever happen for two reasons 1) SR's escorts would never let SES cross the SR's T (the only place that would be safe for the SES to attack on the SR) and 2) because the SES are pirates they would never attempt to attack a SOTL (ship of the line)

and if it did happen, the SES would run out of ammo before it even came close to damaging the SR. So then they would board the SR, and well if they even got onto the deck of the ship, the SR would wipe the floor with the SES, because they are trained marines and outnumber the crew of SES by as many as 10:1 and no less then 5:1

i think the MOCer did a good job with what he had.

i agree.  Eldorado is to small to be a lone fortress and the things you mentioned about the line is quite true.
a Line ship doenst sail alone, it have several ships to follow, and akt as guard/ recon/resuply etc.

and the SES versus SR is true too. even if  SES was a naval ship it would still be higly outnumbered compared to a line ship like SR. even if both ships had full crew and was fit for fight.  SR could loose a whole deck of guncrew and still fire as many guns as SES.

The only time i can see a SES or BSB size ship(naval or pirate) having a higher chance of sucsess is if SR have been separated from her escort(of frigates and smaller ships) by heavy sea or bad weather.  
if SES/BSB have a VERY good captain(and very lucky too) and come over SR/lineship
without her escort they could have a chance of hitting the rudder, and then perhaps getting close enough to sink her. but boarding SR is just to forget, to many men omboard.

[EXO-CHAMP]

I'm not a big expert on naval tactics, but I read one place that the HMS Oliphant (ship of the line) was forced to retreat from a host of danish gunboats (huge rowing boats with a big front mounted cannon).

Although the gunboats had an unfair advantage (almost no wind), it does seem to support the fact that a ship-of-the-line is not always with an escort.

[El Bucanero]

Sir Dillon, on Jul 14 2006, 05:08 AM, said:

I think this ship is very well built, but looks too tall for how wide it is. I think the builder would do better by making his own hull, and not using the pre-molded official ones. I also agree on that the masts should be taller, and the sails a bit bigger.

As for the SR vs. the SES, while I'm no ship expert, I agree with Norro. Because even though the SES may be a faster and more agile ship, in order to get the SR into their range, they need to sail into the range of the SR, which would blow them to pieces. *pirate*

I agree about the masts and sails, and a brick built hull could work. But if he really wants to use the traditional ones, he should get some more and make it taller, it looks to high for it's lenght...