234 replies to this topic

[BrickArtist]

I think this topic is well needed, over in the SW forum you hear a lot of talk dissing the CW series. And CW fans arguing back, and vise versa.

So why do you hate CW? What do you dislike about OT? How could CW be improved to your liking?

Keep it respectful, though. Don't be narrow minded towards your side of the argument.

Begin!!

[Dunjohn]

I think it's fantastic that the Clone Wars era has been successful, particularly after that patchy beginning, and that the number of Clone Wars fans probably outnumber the, uh, number of Original Trilogy fans. I never thought that Clone Troopers could become as accepted as Storm Troopers but there they are. That all said, I'd be on the Original Trilogy side.

I didn't watch the OT until the Special Editions came out in the nineties, when I was in my teens, so I came to Star Wars about halfway between eras. Probably the main thing I don't like about the CW is that it feels so arteficial and forced. One side of that is, it's not subtle about its main goal: to shift plastic. Absolutely everything I see about it has that goal in mind. The goal exists with the OT too, obviously, but it doesn't seem to be as far to the fore (at least, until the Ewoks arrive). I can sit down and enjoy the OT without having BUY ME! blazing across my eyeballs every thirty seconds.

The other side of feeling arteficial and forced is how the whole era looks. It's drenched in so much CG that nothing really stood out as amazing. The attack on the Death Star is a thousand times better than the rescue of Chancellor Palpatine from Grievous' flagship because by that point in the CW, it's just another overdone piece of eye candy. The attack on Hoth is edge-of-the-seat stuff; the Battle of Geonosis is ten times more epic but nowhere near as interesting. I don't believe that CG is necessarily a bad thing, but neither is chocolate, and you can't have that for three meals a day.

I'm not one of those fundamentalists who refuses to have anything to do with CW, I just vastly prefer the old stuff.

[Brickdoctor]

Dunjohn, on 20 January 2011 - 03:04 AM, said:

I think it's fantastic that the Clone Wars era has been successful, particularly after that patchy beginning, and that the number of Clone Wars fans probably outnumber the, uh, number of Original Trilogy fans. I never thought that Clone Troopers could become as accepted as Storm Troopers but there they are. That all said, I'd be on the Original Trilogy side.

I didn't watch the OT until the Special Editions came out in the nineties, when I was in my teens, so I came to Star Wars about halfway between eras. Probably the main thing I don't like about the CW is that it feels so arteficial and forced. One side of that is, it's not subtle about its main goal: to shift plastic. Absolutely everything I see about it has that goal in mind. The goal exists with the OT too, obviously, but it doesn't seem to be as far to the fore (at least, until the Ewoks arrive). I can sit down and enjoy the OT without having BUY ME! blazing across my eyeballs every thirty seconds.

The other side of feeling arteficial and forced is how the whole era looks. It's drenched in so much CG that nothing really stood out as amazing. The attack on the Death Star is a thousand times better than the rescue of Chancellor Palpatine from Grievous' flagship because by that point in the CW, it's just another overdone piece of eye candy. The attack on Hoth is edge-of-the-seat stuff; the Battle of Geonosis is ten times more epic but nowhere near as interesting. I don't believe that CG is necessarily a bad thing, but neither is chocolate, and you can't have that for three meals a day.

I agree. CW just doesn't seem realistically Star Wars. What it comes down to is that (and I've said it before and I'll say it again) if CW were executed properly, I would probably have liked it. Despite the targeted audience of kids, a show that has the good guys win every time and throws this ship and that ship into Star Wars canon for no reason other than to make the good guys win again and then rewrites existing timelines with that information just isn't that good. There are good points of the CW show, in iconic vehicles like the RGS and Venator, but the way they're portrayed and put together with all those other vehicles and characters simply isn't very Star Warsy.

[Churchill]

I grew up with the OT, and it will always be my favorite.  It was so new at the time, and ahead of its time.  I admit that I like it probably out of nostalgia.
I agree with some of the criticisms of CW, but I enjoy it.  My opinion is that if OT fans would give it a chance, they might actually enjoy it.  
I look at it this way- it's Star Wars, so I'm going to like it no matter what (well, maybe not if it was like the Holiday Special).  And I have to concede that the only reason I have any OT SW Lego is because of CW.

[The Legonater]

Brickdoctor, on 20 January 2011 - 03:15 AM, said:

I agree. CW just doesn't seem realistically Star Wars. What it comes down to is that (and I've said it before and I'll say it again) if CW were executed properly, I would probably have liked it. Despite the targeted audience of kids, a show that has the good guys win every time and throws this ship and that ship into Star Wars canon for no reason other than to make the good guys win again and then rewrites existing timelines with that information just isn't that good. There are good points of the CW show, in iconic vehicles like the RGS and Venator, but the way they're portrayed and put together with all those other vehicles and characters simply isn't very Star Warsy.

I too agree. These are the main flaws of the series, and without them it would be a very enjoyable show. CW has some icnredible potential, but the writing staff seems to flunk it. I mean, do we really need a new vehicle, charecter or droid every other episode?

[fred67]

My two cents... like others, I grew up with the OT - I was 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  We made TIE fighters and X-Wings out of the LEGO we had back then, and had a lot of fun.

Anyway, I don't really have a problem with CW.  In fact, we do some work for CW where I work (we do CW commercials).  But I never liked the characters involved in the PT, who are largely the ones who star in CW.  The PT was just terrible, IMO; George Lucas should be shot - he has no concept of bringing real relationships to the screen and the whole "love" story just never materialized.  Anakin was as emotional as the big rock in my front yard, and yes, I need more character driven stories.

The occasional bad guy was great; Grievous, Darth Maul... but I just never liked the main characters, and they're the ones who play a significant role in the CW.

But I don't hate it; in fact I watch it sometimes.  But I'm not interested in CW or PT LEGO sets (the only one I got that I didn't ultimately regret was UCS Grievous).

[Cloud0]

The problem with watching Clone Wars is knowing the outcome of the story at the end of it. It's hard to root for Anakin knowing his going to be the biggest bad megablocks of the galaxy and slaughtering all the Jedi his working with right now. There isn't as much anticipation and shocker as we already know what is to come. Count Dooku isn't much of a baddie since we already know his got only like 5 mins of screen time in episode 3 where Anakin painlessly takes him out.

[Churchill]

fred67, on 20 January 2011 - 03:57 AM, said:

My two cents... like others, I grew up with the OT - I was 10 years old when Star Wars came out.  We made TIE fighters and X-Wings out of the LEGO we had back then, and had a lot of fun.

Fred67, I was 8.  I wish we still had some of those models we made.  My brother made an impressive Millenium Falcon, "midi" scale.  No minifigs.  Does this mean we're old?

[Sam Vimes]

How about it this, way though out TV and Pop Culture History (meaning, Film, Comics, and Tv) there will always be a arugement, for example, there is the one for Trekkies, some think that there is only one Star Trek Captain and that is Kirk, while others like both and say Picard is better, or they are like me who likes them both pretty well.

I like Both, Alright look at this Orignal Star Wars, VS Prequel Star Wars, one side hates the prequels with a passion and say that the orignal is better, blah blah.

Too me it is the same thing, if you took Bruce Wayne (Batman )  and made him not The Batman and made like Clark Kent (aka Superman ) the new Batman, It wouldn't matter, it is still Batman, yes it is different, yes it may be not what you are use too, but they are taking it a different way of looking at the character or theme.

And that is what they are doing with The Clone Wars, they probally relized that some fans will gripe and others will love it, but they are doing what they do best they keep making storys, isn't it what this is all about, telling a story.

Anyway thats my look on this and for the record my awenser on that was I like both and they are both equally good, if you look at them for pleasure and for entertanment and not for something else.

*shows sign off relief *

"Aww thats better "

*Walks away *

[fred67]

Churchill, on 20 January 2011 - 04:02 AM, said:

Fred67, I was 8.  I wish we still had some of those models we made.  My brother made an impressive Millenium Falcon, "midi" scale.  No minifigs.  Does this mean we're old?

Yes.

[vexorian]

CW is ok. Never a fan of the massive retcon (thy name is Asoka), but it is something I would not mind watching if nothing else was on TV.

CW minifigs though, they are just horrible. Their creepy faces are something TLG should never do again. The uncanny valley is something that should be a Megabloks® exclusive.

[Brickdoctor]

Churchill, on 20 January 2011 - 03:23 AM, said:

My opinion is that if OT fans would give it a chance, they might actually enjoy it.

Oh, I gave it a chance. (and I realize that post wasn't directed solely at me, but this is my view) Back when it was first announced, I remembered reading that it was going to fix the '03 show. Grievous would cough a lot and the Jedi wouldn't be able to toss a million BDs across a platform with a wave of a finger. I hailed it as the savior of the Clone Wars era and the future of Star Wars. I have the boxes from 7675, 7676, 7752, 8018, 8019, and the 7680 that I got at 50% off as a parts pack behind be because of that assumption. But then CW turned out to be...well if you read my previous post you know what I think it turned out to be.

Cloud0, on 20 January 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

The problem with watching Clone Wars is knowing the outcome of the story at the end of it. It's hard to root for Anakin knowing his going to be the biggest bad megablocks of the galaxy and slaughtering all the Jedi his working with right now. There isn't as much anticipation and shocker as we already know what is to come. Count Dooku isn't much of a baddie since we already know his got only like 5 mins of screen time in episode 3 where Anakin painlessly takes him out.

vexorian, on 20 January 2011 - 05:33 AM, said:

CW is ok. Never a fan of the massive retcon (thy name is Asoka)

Ah, this is another problem. Now they've created a kid-favorite team of heroes that wrecked the timeline and ruined the public view of the CIS. Not to mention that now they have to fit it all back into the SW canon, and knowing them that means cutting out all the existing contradictory info, replacing it with CW, and causing a second 'Who shot first?' controversy.

[Cad Bane]

Well I myself am an interesting story/character...
I do like the Clone Wars and get annoyed with the constant hating as it is an enjoyable TV show that improves with every season and embellishes the huge gap in between the movies. On the other hand, I love the movies. I enjoy PT for the amazing scenes made possible by modern technology. While PT, IMO, brings the whole thing together with an amazing plot of love and betrayal (though the Actor who played Anakin really can NOT show emotion...I don't even bother remembering his name), OT brings in a more simple yet equally enjoyable plot and brings the story full circle. (which is weird because when you think about it, the PT really made the OT make more sense/have more value and importance so I find it odd that OT fans dislike the PT since they benefit eachother so much. [I wonder why???]) In Lego form though, I think I'd have to lean towards the PT and CW side of things as they have much cooler ships (and more of them) plus many more characters.

On another note, I have many times heard that the old CW 2-D cartoon is better than the new one. My question is why? I've only seen pictures/stills of the old one and the characters are laughable. They look ridiculous! And yet people praise it and hate on the new series for it's animation, which IMHO far surpasses that of many of the current TV shows and most certainly the 2-D CW one. In addition to the awesome look and animation, I think the writers (lead by Geogre Lucas' ideas) have created excellent characters and an interesting story to follow.

Another oddity of mine is that, unlike most, I don't dislike Jar Jar and Ahsoka. I find Jar Jar odd but moderately funny and I think Ahsoka is a feisty little padawan with much to learn and adds some interesting relationships to the show. We see a possible love interest (maybe...see "Heroes on Both Sides" for more info. watch it it's pretty good for a senate episode) and hints that she might know that there is a little more to Padme and Anakin's relationship than meets the eye... (and a this point we haven't even seen the Mortis episodes which add even more depth supposedly to Ahsoka)

Edit: Another thing that makes PT better than OT slightly is the music. I myself play lots of movie scores on the piano and the ones from PT are much more moving and dramatic/provoke more emotion than the scores from OT. Just thought I'd point that out.

Edited by Cad Bane, 20 January 2011 - 06:38 AM.

[Brickdoctor]

Cad Bane, on 20 January 2011 - 06:25 AM, said:

I enjoy PT for the amazing scenes made possible by modern technology. While PT, IMO, brings the whole thing together with an amazing plot of love and betrayal (though the Actor who played Anakin really can NOT show emotion...I don't even bother remembering his name), OT brings in a more simple yet equally enjoyable plot and brings the story full circle. (which is weird because when you think about it, the PT really made the OT make more sense/have more value and importance so I find it odd that OT fans dislike the PT since they benefit eachother so much. [I wonder why???])

The OT has a story of love and betrayal as well. There's the flirting between Han and Leia, and the crushes Luke and Han have on her in ESB and AnH, respectively, tied together by the revelation that Luke is Leia's sister and Leia and Han's scene in RotJ. And there's the love Vader had for Luke that prompted him to kill Palpatine. I have to disagree, also, the OT is not dependent on the PT. The OT ends with poetic justice, and anything the PT explains is really just assumed: that Anakin was good and became bad for one reason or another and then redeemed himself. The PT, on the other hand, ends with the bad guys winning and a bunch of loose ends such as what happens to Vader and how do the good guys come back and what happens to the twins.

Cad Bane, on 20 January 2011 - 06:25 AM, said:

On another note, I have many times heard that the old CW 2-D cartoon is better than the new one. My question is why? I've only seen pictures/stills of the old one and the characters are laughable. They look ridiculous! And yet people praise it and hate on the new series for it's animation, which IMHO far surpasses that of many of the current TV shows and most certainly the 2-D CW one. In addition to the awesome look and animation, I think the writers (lead by Geogre Lucas' ideas) have created excellent characters and an interesting story to follow.

Because despite the bad graphics and the irrealism of some of the actions, at least the CIS wins some of the time.

[Cad Bane]

Ahh....

That does seem to be a problem with the previous two seasons of the most recent CW, but if you watch you'll notice that this season the bad guys win in more and more episodes. I think that that is more realistic, but now instead of complaining about good guys winning so much, some are complaining that the bad guys are winning too much now and the story is getting too dark...go figure! Guess you can't please everyone, can you? I do like the new darkness of the CW as it's more realistic, but with all the choking and stabbing and killing in these last few episodes, I sort of understand where the "it's too dark" people are coming from. sort of...

[Brickdoctor]

Cad Bane, on 20 January 2011 - 06:43 AM, said:

Ahh....

That does seem to be a problem with the previous two seasons of the most recent CW, but if you watch you'll notice that this season the bad guys win in more and more episodes. I think that that is more realistic, but now instead of complaining about good guys winning so much, some are complaining that the bad guys are winning too much now and the story is getting too dark...go figure! Guess you can't please everyone, can you? I do like the new darkness of the CW as it's more realistic, but with all the choking and stabbing and killing in these last few episodes, I sort of understand where the "it's too dark" people are coming from. sort of...

Well then that creates another problem. The story has to be balanced to be realistic. And it's not. (although I haven't seen Season 3, so I'll take your word for it)

I do also want to point out that the greatest visual effects in the world can't tell an emotional story. And in that regard, which is the heart and soul of a story, the OT tells the story better than the PT/CW. There is no scene in the entire PT to compare with 'I am your father.' Not Anakin's 'I hate you', not Qui-Gon's death, not Padme's death, not the Anakin and Padme before the arena battle, not Anakin leaving his mother.

[KielDaMan]

Ok so this is my stand on this issue (which some of you might've heard already in the SW forum):

I am a Star Wars fan, and in my dictionary, a true Star Wars fan accepts and loves everything about the franchise. Yeah there maybe some things that I don't necessarily like, but overall I've come to accept those and everything about SW, from OT, to PT, to CW, and even the EU stuff.

Now, what I don't really like is how other elitist SW fans keep on attacking the new CW series (and their kid fan base). Of course they have their valid points and their own personal beliefs on what should/should not be done in the SW universe. But guess what? Believe what you want to believe, but Lucas and his franchise will keep on going even without these so-called elitist 'only the OT is the real and valid SW' fans. I've posted this question before but nobody had the guts to answer: Let's say 10 years from now and there will be a new SW movie/series (live-action, another CGI animation, etc.), will you still be stuck in the past with your beloved OT and still refuse to accept the new things that the SW franchise has to offer?

Remember the cliche, the only permanent thing in this world is change, so if you choose to live in the past glory days of OT and want to be left behind then do so, while fans like us who willingly accept change will continue to enjoy the current success and future possibilities for the franchise.

"Good men leave, only dead wood remain."

[Brickdoctor]

KielDaMan, on 20 January 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

I am a Star Wars fan, and in my dictionary, a true Star Wars fan accepts and loves everything about the franchise. Yeah there maybe some things that I don't necessarily like, but overall I've come to accept those and everything about SW, from OT, to PT, to CW, and even the EU stuff.

This is where I agree with you. I accept whatever is decided to be canon Star Wars as Star Wars, including The Clone Wars. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.

My main thing, as I've said, is that I gave CW a chance and CW failed to come through. And yes, I believe in second chances. I've given CW a chance at the beginning of each new season. But CW doesn't change. It's still irrealistic, Anakin shows no hint of his angry self, and the show continues to walk all over the current timeline. I accept CW as the future of Star Wars because obviously it's not going to go away any time soon. But that doesn't mean I can't criticize it. I'm not beyond criticizing the OT or PT either. Ewoks aren't that great, and Jar-Jar is, well, Jar-Jar. But if a show has more stuff to criticize it on, it's going to get criticized more. I'm not one to argue for arguing's sake. I wouldn't criticize CW if I didn't think there was a good reason.

You could say I'm dwelling in the past, or that I'm beating a dead horse. But we OT fans are what keeps that horse alive. Just as CW is the new chapter of Star Wars, OT is also very much Star Wars. And I don't think anyone can say that the OT wasn't well executed. (other than those Ewoks) Who knows, maybe Lucas will go through with that third trilogy, and it will be well-executed (though I doubt that). And B-wings and TIE Bombers will be common sets and the OT will be the theme loved by both the young of the next generation. You have your theme, I have mine, we're both Star Wars fans, and we can criticize each other's themes in a friendly manner.

[KielDaMan]

Brickdoctor, on 20 January 2011 - 08:29 AM, said:

But that doesn't mean I can't criticize it.

If only other OT fans are as 'friendly' in criticizing as you are Doc, then I guess CW fans won't have any problems with OT fans. It's just we've heard countless times here in EB certain people who keep taking cheap shots / snide remarks towards CW every time they have the chance, it's like they have this weird and inexplicable personal vendetta against the CW series.

Criticizing is one thing. Constantly criticizing is another thing. It really gets tiring and irritating over time.

As you'll observe I have no problem with OT whatsoever, it's the borderline arrogant fans that always dismisses the CW as some sort of trash that is getting on my nerves.

Just to leave on a positive note, we are all SW fans here, and we are like one big family with you OT fans being the CW fans' big brothers. So why bully your little brother's CW interest just because you don't like them right?

[Brickdoctor]

KielDaMan, on 20 January 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

If only other OT fans are as 'friendly' in criticizing as you are Doc, then I guess CW fans won't have any problems with OT fans.

I suppose that makes me a 'good' OT fan?

KielDaMan, on 20 January 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

It's just we've heard countless times here in EB certain people who keep taking cheap shots / snide remarks towards CW every time they have the chance, it's like they have this weird and inexplicable personal vendetta against the CW series.

I think it's kind of a combination of frustration at the PT and a general grudge towrds what CW started as that results in an assumption that all CW is like that without fact to back it up.

KielDaMan, on 20 January 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

Criticizing is one thing. Constantly criticizing is another thing. It really gets tiring and irritating over time.

Well if (and not to say that this is what's happening, just pointing out) you constantly have something to be criticized on, then you're going to be constantly criticized, and that's not the criticizer's fault so long as he has a valid point.

KielDaMan, on 20 January 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

So why bully your little brother's CW interest just because you don't like them right?

Agreed. The unfriendly debates get on my nerves as well. Friendly discussions are just that: friendly discussions.

Edited by Brickdoctor, 20 January 2011 - 09:23 AM.

[Fallenangel]

First of all, I want to say that there are Star Wars fans who would argue on one side of this issue to their deathbed, and any amount of argument I provide is next to worthless in comparison...

I think Dunjohn's made a very good point about the Wars being drenched in computer animation. One of the things that being an AFOL has done for me is give me a new appreciation of the many beautiful studio models constructed for the Original Trilogy (as well as a new contempt for UCS sets, but that belongs in a different thread), and I feel that the number of computer-generated starships in the Special Editions, Prequels, and beyond make them more separate from the Original Trilogy. And scenery porn can get boring. I don't care how massive Theed, Tipoca City, or Mustafar is if it means acting is sacrificed in the process. Amazing scenes created by modern technology is nice, but it detracts from the story. In the Original Trilogy, the story felt personal, with not so much the Alliance against the Empire as Luke, Han, and Leia against Vader. Not so with the Prequels – you’ve got what, the Trade Federation, the IG Banking Clan, the Confederacy of Independent Systems, all this politics junk about secession and blockades… so what? In the end all that is background noise for hollow acting between Natalie, Hayden, and Ewan and doesn’t contribute much. Despite the fact that we do see some political action in Expanded Universe lit I don’t feel Star Wars has ever been a story about politics.

Another thing is the depiction of the starships in the Prequels. I have heard Original Trilogy fans state multiple times that the X-wing, TIE fighter, and Millennium Falcon, among other ships, have their own distinctive personalities and are just as much characters in the story as Luke, Han, and Leia. The ships of the Prequels and the Clone Wars, by contrast, are numerous, impossibly diverse, and strangely impersonal. This is apparent in the lack of closeup shots of said starships in the first two Prequels (something  I found quite annoying). And the lack of tangible studio models restricts the amount of love you can give to the ship. I know there are model kit enthusiasts out there who know the weathering, detailing, and kitbashed parts of the Falcon or the X-wing on a level that only a true fan would. That kind of passion isn’t possible with a cold digital model.  You can talk about the Nu-class shuttle and the Pelta frigate all you want but in the end they don’t feel as realistic as the Original Trilogy starships do.
And of course this all fits in with what Brickdoctor said about how visual effects can’t tell a great story.

It’s interesting that I’ve encountered all of Cad Bane’s points of argument for the Prequels and the ’08 series (better graphics, better ships, better music)through comments on YouTube clips… I want to say more, but I'm not sure I'll be able to without sounding elitist.

I would have to argue for the case of the ’03 Clone Wars series being superior to the '08 series.  There are a lot of points, but one I feel I have to mention would be General Grievous. Grievous made his animated debut in Chapter 20 of the ’03 Clone Wars (on Hypori against the Muunilinst 10) and I think he created quite a distinctive image for himself with his wild lightsaber fighting style and the fact that he’s around twice as big as anyone else in the room with a lightsaber, not to mention the fact that he’s got wicked claws and a voice that doesn’t sound like a bad Dracula imitation (as another fan put it). The ’08 series, on the other hand, just took too much from what we’ve already seen from Sith – you’ve got Grievous with his same annoying cough (which, by the way, he didn’t acquire until near the end of the ’03 series), the same whirling lightsabers, the same cheesy backflip into the same ship that obviously wouldn’t have fit him in Sith and shouldn’t fit him now. I feel that for all its computer-generated glory the ’08 series has done Grievous a great disservice by identifying too much with the weakened physical condition he sports in Episode III.

As for the Prequels giving the Original Trilogy more depth or meaning, I’m going to say that the idea of the Saga being Anakin’s story just doesn’t do it for me, and I’m going to stop there because I doubt I’ll be able to say any more without making some Original Trilogy fans hopping mad.

[Stegoceras]

An interesting post. Hopefully will take the brunt of discussion on this subject of other posts keeping them more on-topic (well I can hope).

Anyways I'll share my opinion.
As I'am (largely) a PT fan I feel I fall in between the discussion whether OT is the cream of the crops and The Clone Wars is an abomination child that was never to be born.

I'm not even going to touch the fact that OT is simply great. It's even enjoyable after all these years and it was what brought me into the Star Wars universe. Though if I had to think of a minor problem with the OT is that it might be so incredibly nostalgic now that it's up to the point of being idolized, do remember that back in those days the movie was unlike anything people had ever seen in a movie which would make any scene more memorable than many could ever now hope to achieve. Nowadays we don't even raise an eyebrow to a massive space battle on screen.

The PT on the other hand is what really made me a Star Wars ?addict?, I was still a young when I saw TPM and it literally blew my mind. Even though many people say the acting is awful and the script is rubbish and childish (even the whole loathing of Jar-Jar seems strange to me, he simply is the 3P0 of the PT), all and all I still love it.

Then there is the EU, the greatly undervalued child of all this. There are great books and comics on many periods of the timeline and I think any Star Wars fan would enjoy it, it glides gently between the movies, including as much as they can without conflicting with established movie (or other EU) canon.

Then there is The Clone Wars, All I can say is that it's entertaining. I do enjoy watching the episodes although they make me scratch my head more than once when they once again drive straight trough the garden of established (EU) canon. Beyond the fact that it disturbs what we know and loved here and there I'm not sure why people hate it (or very much dislike it in lack of a better word). Okay, so it's not exactly as deep and gripping as the OT, but it was never meant too be anyways. I'm sure the kids that grow up with this cartoon will love it and cherish it as much as I do the PT and others do the OT. and for one I'm glad it's there, cause without The Clone Wars would TLC still have interest in making Star Wars sets?(I severely doubt it, I don't see them stepping into EU sets, cause the market would be to small).

In the end it's all about taste and what you grew up with.

[simonjedi]

This really should have been in the 'Star Wars' topic. I'm honestly surprised this is an actual debate. OT for me by miles. You wouldn't even have the CW if it wasn't for the first film.

fallenangel327, on 20 January 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

lots and lots of things.

This is the best post I've ever read. Have you heard/watched the Red Letter Media reviews by the way? He mentions quite a bit about what you say.

My personal star wars ranking...

OT> '03 CW > Games Kotor series, X-wing/TIE Fighter ect > '08 CW >> PT

Edited by simonjedi, 20 January 2011 - 05:30 PM.

[Brickdoctor]

fallenangel327, on 20 January 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

As for the Prequels giving the Original Trilogy more depth or meaning, I’m going to say that the idea of the Saga being Anakin’s story just doesn’t do it for me, and I’m going to stop there because I doubt I’ll be able to say any more without making some Original Trilogy fans hopping mad.

I have to agree. The Saga is not Anakin's story. It's Vader and Luke's story. Vader is bad, Luke is good, Vader loves Luke, Luke loves Vader, Vader saves Luke, Luke saves Vader. The OT can tell a perfectly good complete story without the PT. Besides, the PT (especially Ep.1) ruins the effect of Vader. You simply cannot think of the black armored man who stormed Tantive IV as a heartless tyrant if you sympathize with a nine-year-old boy. Now you think of Vader of the OT as a messed up, hurt man confined to an imprisoning suit of life-support equipment, not a towering, evil bad guy in an imposing suit of armor.

[simonjedi]

Brickdoctor, on 20 January 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

I have to agree. The Saga is not Anakin's story. It's Vader and Luke's story

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idea of the Saga being Anakin’s story just doesn’t do it

Lucas is so full of shit. Star Wars wasn't originally supposed to be 'The Saga of Anakin' In ANH Vader was just a scary looking imperial officer. He wasn't supposed to be Luke's dad (luke's dad was a separate character.) RotJ is basically 6, 7, 8 and 9 compressed into one movie. There are two many plot holes introduced in the PT to make it sync up right.