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62 replies to this topic  – Started by Aalak , Dec 23 2010 11:34 PM

#1 Aalak

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 11:34 PM

Hi there,
it's been a while since my last post but I was allways reading... After a study-related break I started a new modell ... it's going to be a frigate, possibly a Frenchman,since I got a bucket full of 2x2 red tiles at my local Lego Store... (why did they never have the 1x2 or 1x1 tiles :( ) The plan is to build her with accessable gundeck and cabin, as well as with a real rigging and not the old Pirates Lego Masts. So that where I need help.
What parts do I need to shop for to create 3 Masts, a new Bowsprit, and what Technic parts are best to use in the rigging?
A shoppinglist would by welcome :)

First shots with my handy cam

I guess credits are going to Perfectionist, Captain Green Hair, I loved your "Building a Frigate" thread and Admiral Croissant - his "Vesta" was and is quite an Inspiration so far, and everybody who helped them before with there ships.

Frontview:
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Sideview:
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Stern:
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There is a black 1x8 Tile for the name - in the big black middle between the red stripes :)

Gundeck:
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Details are still in to come, first I want to build the masts and things

Captain's Cabin
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A table and maybe a small closet are going to be added.

To Do:
- Upper Deck
- Masts
- Rigging
- Figurehead
- black gun hatches (first thing on my shopping list)

Thanks for any help!

Edited by Aalak, 24 December 2010 - 12:03 AM.


#2 Hendawg212

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 01:29 AM

Looks really cool, i especially like the red snakes on the stern. I think it would look even better with white lattice windows instead of the square ones. I am biased though because i love the look of them.

#3 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 11:19 AM

It's becoming a very nice frigate! Though the checker in the captain's cabin is usually white, your colours don't look bad either.
The black gun hatches you're planning to add make it look even more realistic.
Now for the help :pir-classic:
You could make a bit more of a curve in the gunline as all the gun hatches are on the same level now.
As for the masts, I don't have the (order) list anymore, but I used about 80 of these, and about 25 of these.
And then I filled the masts with technic axles to make them stronger.
For the second part of the masts (from the first 'crow's nest' to the top)I used a total of about 50 of these with pins in them.
And for the yards I just used many of these with technic axles.

For the figurehead you can just use a minifig or some kind of creature/animal. Or even a shield would do.
On the upper deck you could place one big 'hole' between the main and fore mast (like on the Vesta), place a steering wheel just in front of the mizzen mast and place a capstan, a bell and some other stuff.
And the rigging...I don't know if you want to put as many time in it as I did :pir_laugh2:  
But I used a thicker rope bought in some local shop and bought lego rope for the horizontal rope in the 'climbing rigging' and for the smaller lines.

Good luck! I'm sure this will turn out into a very fine vessel :pir-classic:
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#4 Aalak

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 02:33 PM

Thanks so far for the tips about the parts and the details :) Just started my shopping list in excel ... Merry Christmas!

#5 Aalak

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 04:27 PM

3rd rebuild
I tried to use the advice of the admiral, so i changed the way of the building the gun deck. I really loved the Artemis of Perfectionist, so I "borrowed" some ideas, like the lamps and the grid to the storage areas, I also build in a small galley - ideas taken from the flagship. The opening on the upper deck will be between the first two masts.
But now I face a new problem, since I haven't got enough red or yellow bricks to make a good looking, realistic gunport stripe, so I need your advice please, what color would you choose for that purpose?

- white
- tan
- black
- the "Old"-lego grey

Is there a site anywhere, who can tell me about color of stripes and there meaning?

Here are some updated handyshots - I borrow the cam when she is finished...
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What do you think about the plancings of the masts, is the third one still ok? or should I place him 2 or 3 studs farer away from the stern?
Thanks ahead, for any comment and feedback! :)

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#6 Matteo1130

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 05:00 PM

nice job, the tiling of the gudeck means you're making internals? wich way of opening are you planning to use?
a tip: if you consider to open sides like in my frigate make a project of the bases for rigging, otherwise you risk to make a modular ship..tied by the rigging.
'till now great job, keep building!

#7 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 05:07 PM

Great that you're intending to give it more of a curve :thumbup:
As for the gunline, I think white and tan are the best options.
In this case, they were usually painted white, but after a while on the sea it would look more like tan.
So it's just what you like the most. Personally, I think tan will look better with blue gunports.

And the masts. It's hard to say from these pictures, but you could use the 'relations'(?) of this picture:
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As you can see, there's almost 1,5 times as much space between the main and fore mast as between the main and mizzen.
And there's about half as much space between mizzen and stern, as between mizzen and main mast.

Good luck! Looks very nice already with those lanterns!
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#8 Aalak

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 06:36 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 26 December 2010 - 05:07 PM, said:

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As you can see, there's almost 1,5 times as much space between the main and fore mast as between the main and mizzen.
And there's about half as much space between mizzen and stern, as between mizzen and main mast.

Thanks again, that's something to work with :)

#9 venios

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:49 PM

I think you should use White.
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#10 Aalak

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 06:35 PM

I did a complete rebuild... I guess she will be the H.M.S. Spartan or H.M.S. Ares (not shure yet) a kind of "Leda Class" Frigate...

Still a lot to do... but I like to share some pictures, while I'm waiting for some Bricklink orders...
The new Gun Stripe is yellow, and i used the hinge technic by Captain Green Hair.
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The new figurhead: The Spartan / Ares
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The new "small" Great Cabin
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Updated "Gun-Lamps"
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Some of the new 12-pounders (with a lot of "proxy-parts") for the upper-decks
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The new Stern - still w-i-p... waiting for insperation and parts :)
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Feedback is welcome!

#11 Sir E Fullner

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 06:48 PM

It seems to be coming along fine, Aalak. I can't wait for the next post.

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#12 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:08 PM

You made some very good progress :thumbup: The curve in the gunline and the colours look excellent.
The brown decks look great as well. Can't wait to see that finished with a bell, some lattice works and cleats at the bottom of the masts.

Possible improvements:
The gunport most in the front is suddenly placed lower than the other gunports at a point where it should be higher, and I'm not very fond of the black line there.
I would also remove the blue gunport things on the poop deck, and change the furniture in the captains cabin into brown. It's too yellow now IMO.
Finally, you could perhaps change the grey headlight bricks in your (beatifully designed) cannons into black ones.
And the stern is great and it's clever how you gave it an interior with CGH's hinge technique.
Keep it up! It's becoming a very nice frigate!
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#13 lt.Gonville brickhead

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:48 PM

It's coming along nicely. :thumbup:
As said above the front gunport should be higher and In my opinion the stern is looking a little bit plain. :pir-sceptic:
Good luck with it!

Edited by lt.Gonville brickhead, 17 January 2011 - 08:48 PM.

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#14 Aalak

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 02:45 AM

I just want to let you know, I'm still bricking ... ehm I guess It's more like rigging now :) but I'm still on it...
Just a little blurry - "late night" teaser...
The uppder decks: - completly tiled now... 2 catspans are in place, the wheel as well, and the first 12 smaller guns are in place as well...
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Some of the yards ... still need to be "rigged up"..
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The complete building history of the ship so far can be seen here: My Flickr

By the way could an Admin rename this topic in "HMS Ares" - My Frigate - work in process. THANKS!

So long!

Aalak

Edited by Aalak, 25 January 2011 - 02:46 AM.


#15 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:27 AM

The ship is really taking shape now :thumbup:
The only thing I'm not very fond of is the yellow+black yards. I think that will make it too much of that combination.
Plain grey or black will look better IMO.
And the top mast section on east mast is placed behind the mast section below it, whilst it should be in front of it.
On the lowest and middle mast section you did it right though.
Outside of that I think it's excellent. Keep it up!
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#16 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:07 PM

View PostAalak, on 26 December 2010 - 04:27 PM, said:

I tried to use the advice of the admiral, so i changed the way of the building the gun deck. I really loved the Artemis of Perfectionist, so I "borrowed" some ideas

So that's how you British do, you take French designs, copy them and then sink our ships!  :pirate_skel1:
Arr! You should make her a Frenchman, as indicated in the first post!
Just kidding.

It's Achille btw, not Artemis.

Now onto your ship:
I have to completely agree with the good Admiral, the black- yellow colourscheme you used for your masts and yards seems pretty much off to me.
I mean, if you want to limit her to a 2 colour yellow-black colourscheme, you should get rid of the yellow stripe on the topdeck, make the masts primarily in yellow with some black parts in between representing iron rings (the opposite of what you have done) and change the masts to all black. On the stern, the ornaments should be yellow as well as the window frames while the windows would be white (preferable the lattice design).

That is the historical accurate way, of course you can do it how you like, but at the moment it doesn't look too good (the colours, not the ship  :pir_laugh2: )

The way you placed the main and mizzen topgallant masts is ok for a late design like the Leda class, however I think the fore topgallant should be in front.

I really like your tiny  MOC cannons, they look so sweet  :pir-cry_happy:
Also it's quite an interesting solution how you attached the ratlines to the hull. I made a knot there.

Is the deck modular (i.e. can you take it off?)?

I also think you should make the bow curve a bit more (like on the real thing). IT's a bit too flat atm. Have you included toilets in the head?

Also the stern should have some inverted slope if you know what i mean. Like this one

That has been a lot of criticism, but you're doing really good here, made a lot of progress in just 3 weeks!

Ohh btw, if you want a moderator to rename your topic, I think you can send him a pm.

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#17 Erdbeereis

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:55 PM

I'll rename it for you Aalak. :pir-classic:

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#18 Aalak

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:32 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on 26 January 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:

So that's how you British do, you take French designs, copy them and then sink our ships!  :pirate_skel1:
Arr! You should make her a Frenchman, as indicated in the first post! Just kidding.
It's Achille btw, not Artemis.

Yes we do that, as we did it with the Leda-Class :)... which was my main inspiration after the Admiral showed my a pic about the mast-configuration, which was actually from the HMS Tricomalee Homepage.

Sorry about the Name :) I suppose I wrote Artemis because of the female figurehead … and it was quite late…

View PostPerfectionist, on 26 January 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:

Now onto your ship:
I have to completely agree with the good Admiral, the black- yellow colourscheme you used for your masts and yards seems pretty much off to me. I mean, if you want to limit her to a 2 colour yellow-black colourscheme, you should get rid of the yellow stripe on the topdeck, make the masts primarily in yellow with some black parts in between representing iron rings (the opposite of what you have done) and change the masts to all black. On the stern, the ornaments should be yellow as well as the window frames while the windows would be white (preferable the lattice design).
That is the historical accurate way, of course you can do it how you like, but at the moment it doesn't look too good (the colours, not the ship  :pir_laugh2: )
The way you placed the main and mizzen topgallant masts is ok for a late design like the Leda class, however I think the fore topgallant should be in front.
I really like your tiny  MOC cannons, they look so sweet  :pir-cry_happy:
Also it's quite an interesting solution how you attached the ratlines to the hull. I made a knot there.
Is the deck modular (i.e. can you take it off?)?
I also think you should make the bow curve a bit more (like on the real thing). IT's a bit too flat atm. Have you included toilets in the head?

I've got some problems at the moment – first: no money & no parts in the right color for a complete yellow or brown yard/mast combination - and I'm to cheap to pay the prices on bricklink for some parts, like the lattice design windows – only got 2 pairs in white from my Clipper and 1 pair in yellow from the old redcoats flagship)

Regarding the toilettes: I haven’t include them at the moment, since never really have seen a real picture of one jet ...  I know where they are situated, but that’s all… are they more than just to beans?

Yes the deck is modular, quite similar to your lovely frigate. I made the second yellow line on the top deck because it looked quite clumsy all back… The yards will be all-black; I bought some additional black axle connectors… and axles. I like your system for the yards, (3mm tubes inside the round bricks but decided against it, because I didn’t want to build a “black and yellow rip-off” your lovely ship – and I have no tubes ;) )

View PostPerfectionist, on 26 January 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:

That has been a lot of criticism, but you're doing really good here, made a lot of progress in just 3 weeks!
I wouldn’t call that critism, I'll call that good and useful feedback!

@Erdbeereis:
Thank you for renaming it, without a pm!

I played a bit with the stern and bow today – I’m still not far from happy with the bow… I like the bow … even if the pictures dosen’t show it, the windows are in ca 45 degree angle. That’s why the windows are always open - the didn’t stay shut… must be a French production ;)

Bow:
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Stern:
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Thanks for any feedback, the past and all to come.

#19 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 09:25 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't think the headrails are accurate as they are now: they're way too big. Actually I would completely get rid of the lower part.
Also the figurehead is too low. Usually it would stick up a bit above the headrails, about where the topdeck railing ends.

The stern decorations seem too much to me, also the stern should be lower, about where the railing is. In addition the big flowers may be a little too big.
Try to experiment a bit on the stern to make it more interesting.
Also some thin yellow lines would add a lot to break up all the black.

You could do the same for the topdeck - or go with a red line as Admiral Croissant did on his Vesta.

Have you seen this particular frigate (Leda type). I'll probably visit it mid-February and post some pictures, but for now these have to do.

Hope this helps!

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#20 Matteo1130

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:28 PM

imho, the first gunport (next to the bow) would be higher than the second.. but in this ship it seems placed lower.
by the way this is coming a great MOC, and i'm  very surprised by all the progress in such a short time!
wich kind of technique are you planning to use to access the interior?

#21 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:58 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on 27 January 2011 - 09:25 PM, said:

I'll probably visit it mid-February and post some pictures, but for now these have to do.
Seriously? I'm jealous :pir-classic:  I just read a book about HMS Trincomalee and I'd love to see it in real!

As for the ship, I agree with Perfectionist about the headrails. Without the lower part it will look better
But then it will still look a bit chaotic, something like on this ship will look good.

The stern is indeed too high, so you could either shorten it, or give it another cabin in the back like on this picture.
And finally, to call it a leda class frigate, it should actually have 38 guns :pir-sweet:
But on the other hand, the number of guns could also be reduced to less, but stronger guns as happened with Trincomalee.

Another famous Leda class frigate is HMS Unicorn, which also still excists (shows how strong these ships with a teak hull are). So perhaps pictures of this ship are also helpful.
Good luck!
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#22 Aalak

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 03:47 AM

@Matteo1130 It's modular, quite simular to Perfectionist Achille! So no problem to access the gundeck.

@Perfectionist & Admiral Croissant

Ok, I understand what's wrong with my bow and the headrails - It looks quite odd because of the 2x3 slopes, I guess I'll change most of them back to 2x2 slopes and put the figurehead higher... In the process the bowspit will automaticly be on a sharper angle.

The stern will also undergo another rebuild. Thanks again...

@Admiral Croissant 38 Guns - No Problem! The Ports are there, I only need to add them later :) even if I read on the HP from the Unicorn, that she had 46 Guns ... ;)

#23 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:48 AM

View PostAalak, on 28 January 2011 - 03:47 AM, said:

@Admiral Croissant 38 Guns - No Problem! The Ports are there, I only need to add them later :) even if I read on the HP from the Unicorn, that she had 46 Guns ... ;)
It was originally designed to carry 38 guns (on specific places :pir-classic:) . After 1817 Leda class frigates all got 46. (link)
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#24 Aalak

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 12:25 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 28 January 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

It was originally designed to carry 38 guns (on specific places :pir-classic:) . After 1817 Leda class frigates all got 46. (link)

OK, I Should have read more of subpages ;) I would go with the placings from the HMS Trincomalee Page - but there where/are only 20 guns on the gundeck and 6 on the quaterdeck - I suppose allmost all of the rest of the guns should be placed there as well and maybe two more on the gun deck. Do you know more? By the way. after studing the stern picture of the HMS Trincomalee, I think I will strip away the 2nd yellow stripe, as well as the complete 3 row of bricks. Since I use the smaller guns I could complete the gunports by simply putting the tiles as upper borderline.

#25 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:10 PM

View PostAalak, on 28 January 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

OK, I Should have read more of subpages ;) I would go with the placings from the HMS Trincomalee Page - but there where/are only 20 guns on the gundeck and 6 on the quaterdeck - I suppose allmost all of the rest of the guns should be placed there as well and maybe two more on the gun deck. Do you know more?
Well, according to wikipedia, the original armament would have been 38 guns + 16 carronades (so the carronades weren't counted in the "38 gun frigate").
I think that might get a bit cramped :pir_laugh2:  Perhaps it's better to just make it a frigate instead of a Leda Class in particular.
You could better use Trincomalee as an inspiration for details and rigging. Or make it something like the Enterprise class for example, with 28 guns.
Or just a fantasy frigate. There are classes of frigates of 20 up to 44 guns so there will always be a class linked to a certain amount of cannons.
But the typical features of certain classes seem too hard to do with Lego anyway, so I think a 'fantasy frigate will be ok. (Vesta is fantasy as well).
But if you really want to give it the same armament as Trincomalee, here's the correct placement.

I think your new stern ideas are good. I'm looking forward to the next pictures!
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