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[KEY TOPIC] LDD 4 Bugs and brick errors


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#451 kamos

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 07:22 PM

View PostSuperkalle, on 14 December 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

...
The 2351 is the old telescope and 57779 the new arm. I'm not sure they go together with physcial bricks either.
...
I think, in older brick version (brick database) was able to connect but I can't remember. But, there is still a "problem". You can put (for example: 32278) Technic Beam into 2350 and 57779 but you can't put 2351 into both of these arms. In real life, 2351 can be inserted into 2350 (example: 6361-1: Mobile Crane). I got 2350 and 2351 from 4668-1: Outrigger Construction Crane, so I know it is possible.

View PostSuperkalle, on 14 December 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

...
I haven't been able to reproduce this.
...

This happens when you try rotate some of these bricks. Removing one of the brick solve the problem.

View PostSuperkalle, on 14 December 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

...
This is a tricky one. It actually be that this is an illegal build also. I'm not sure that the width of the robotarms (including "hands") are narrower or wider then the glass.

I can try make some better photos or if you (or somebody) have this robot and some "Wall elements" (2362 or 4864 or something like these two) you can try it if the robot will fit betewen the "wall elements".


(Note: These robot was used in the 2006-2007 theme "Exo-force)

#452 Superkalle

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:47 PM

View Postkamos, on 15 December 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:

I think, in older brick version (brick database) was able to connect but I can't remember. But, there is still a "problem". You can put (for example: 32278) Technic Beam into 2350 and 57779 but you can't put 2351 into both of these arms. In real life, 2351 can be inserted into 2350 (example: 6361-1: Mobile Crane). I got 2350 and 2351 from 4668-1: Outrigger Construction Crane, so I know it is possible.
Aha, OK. Now I understand. Yes, you are right. It should be a connection possible.
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#453 Sjuip

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:12 PM

Boundary (?) problem with older train buffer (45708).

While trying to build the locomotive engine of set 7898 (Green Cargo Train), I encountered a problem with the original buffer with plough (45708).
I does not want fit with two studs on 9V Train Engine (70358). LDD 4.1.8 only allows a fit one stud deep (see upper left part of picture).
Newer train buffers with plough (64414 and 91992, the ones with the enclosed magnets) fit correctly onto the 9V Train Engine (also see upper right part of picture).
Same for the (three) different types of train buffers without plough - no problems there.

It is legal build - see sets 4512 and 7898.

Posted Image

EDIT This problem has been solved in LDD version 4.3.5  :thumbup:

Edited by Sjuip, 22 September 2012 - 06:51 PM.


#454 Superkalle

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:32 AM

View PostSjuip, on 27 December 2011 - 10:12 PM, said:

Boundary (?) problem with older train buffer (45708).

While trying to build the locomotive engine of set 7898 (Green Cargo Train), I encountered a problem with the original buffer with plough (45708).
I does not want fit with two studs on 9V Train Engine (70358). LDD 4.1.8 only allows a fit one stud deep (see upper left part of picture).
Newer train buffers with plough (64414 and 91992, the ones with the enclosed magnets) fit correctly onto the 9V Train Engine (also see upper right part of picture).
Same for the (three) different types of train buffers without plough - no problems there.

It is legal build - see sets 4512 and 7898.

Excellent find :classic:
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#455 Sjuip

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:32 AM

Another problem with a stud versus a technic hole. I don't know whether this has been reported yet.
I encountered this one while building the Red Forklift, that is part of Set 7898 Cargo Train, in LDD (4.1.8 Extended).
On the back of the forklift, a tank is fitted onto Plate 1x2 with Single Stud (3794).
The tank consists of Round Brick 2x2x2 (30361, aka Robot Body).
LDD does not allow this stud-in-technic hole connection. See screenshot.

Posted Image

It is supposed to be legal build, see building instruction for Set 7898 Book 7, Page 7.

#456 Unslinga

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:07 AM

I don't know if this is a bug or stupidity:


Image


When I'm making tracked vehicles it just seems stupid that I need to make a rig to avoid the problem and use extra time to make them straight.

Also, the 'wheels' that these are supposed to go around don't fit in any reasonable way.

Edited by Calabar, 04 January 2012 - 12:18 AM.
Oversized image converted in text link.

Gmod is the new Lego, I rate them equal.

#457 Unslinga

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 03:05 AM

I also can't seem to find 4262, Technic Plate, in any of the menus, and I also can't search for it.

PS. Sorry for double posting, but I can't edit the previous one due to it being changed from an image to an url.

Edited by Unslinga, 04 January 2012 - 03:08 AM.

Gmod is the new Lego, I rate them equal.

#458 Superkalle

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:29 AM

View PostUnslinga, on 04 January 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

I also can't seem to find 4262, Technic Plate, in any of the menus, and I also can't search for it.

PS. Sorry for double posting, but I can't edit the previous one due to it being changed from an image to an url.
About the first post, I can't find any error with the track element. If you take them fresh from the brick palette and start connecting them in a new track, they will align straight. Somes times these "off alignment" issues can happen if you either mistakenly rotate the elements at some earlier point in the build, or if you copied them from a vehicle that was rotated slightly.

About the second post, the 4262 is not there because it is an old element. Old elements are only put into LDD when time allows it (according to the LDD Developers).
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#459 Calabar

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:08 PM

View PostUnslinga, on 04 January 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

PS. Sorry for double posting, but I can't edit the previous one due to it being changed from an image to an url.
That's strange... You should be able to modify your post even after I modified it.
Do you retrieve an error or simply the edit button is vanished?
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#460 Unslinga

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:00 PM

View PostSuperkalle, on 04 January 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

About the first post, I can't find any error with the track element. If you take them fresh from the brick palette and start connecting them in a new track, they will align straight. Somes times these "off alignment" issues can happen if you either mistakenly rotate the elements at some earlier point in the build, or if you copied them from a vehicle that was rotated slightly.

About the second post, the 4262 is not there because it is an old element. Old elements are only put into LDD when time allows it (according to the LDD Developers).

1:
Actually all of them are perfectly straight and taken directly from the menu, but it seems it has 3 points of connection where one makes the track straight while the other two are offset from the center.

2:
That's a shame... is there any way to manually make one and insert it?
Gmod is the new Lego, I rate them equal.

#461 Superkalle

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:22 PM

View PostUnslinga, on 04 January 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

1:
Actually all of them are perfectly straight and taken directly from the menu, but it seems it has 3 points of connection where one makes the track straight while the other two are offset from the center.

2:
That's a shame... is there any way to manually make one and insert it?
1: OK, missunderstod you (or rather I didn't look carefully enough  :blush: ). Yeah, I agree - that they can clip on a slightly different places is a nuicance :devil:.

2) As far as I know, unfortunatelly not
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#462 _bIG_fM_

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:19 PM

I'm not sure if this was posted (I assume it was), because it's a major bug, but it can be fixed in LDD, however it's still annyoing.

#6541, #32000, #3700, #3701 (and any other brick with hole) can't be connected right  to a Plate 1x1 without any effort. The plate is just to high:

Posted Image

This leads to this situation:

Posted Image

and also to this:

Posted Image

It can be fixed with a right proceeding, but it's strange, that an illegal connection is allowed in LDD, while not designed right.

Felipe

Edited by _bIG_fM_, 06 January 2012 - 09:20 PM.


#463 Superkalle

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:27 PM

View Post_bIG_fM_, on 06 January 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

I'm not sure if this was posted (I assume it was), because it's a major bug, but it can be fixed in LDD, however it's still annyoing.

#6541, #32000, #3700, #3701 (and any other brick with hole) can't be connected right  to a Plate 1x1 without any effort. The plate is just to high:
This is probably one of the most classic illegal design questions that come up here in the forum. For an explanation about why this is an illegal method, and hence why it is not supported by LDD, please read this excellent document.
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#464 PirateMatt

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:09 AM

I was building 6190 Shark's crystal cave, everything was perfect, but than this problem came up

Image

How to attach glass on a window in LDD?  :cry_sad:

Edited by Calabar, 09 January 2012 - 12:57 AM.
Incorrect link fixed. Oversized image converted in text link.


#465 Superkalle

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:34 PM

View PostPirateMatt, on 09 January 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

I was building 6190 Shark's crystal cave, everything was perfect, but than this problem came up

Image

How to attach glass on a window in LDD?  :cry_sad:
Amazing that this hasn't been spotted before. Great find.
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#466 Sjuip

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:00 PM

A small 'borderline' problem. I encountered this one while building an alternate version of Creator Set 6753 Highway Transport in LDD 4.1.8 Extended.

The model features a crane with Gear Wheel 4019 and Toothed Bar 3743. Initially LDD wouldn't allow the gear wheel to fit.

Posted Image

Only after making the snapshot I realised why: because the tooth of the gear wheel is directly above the cavity that is created by the ends of two adjacent toothed bars. Apparently, the depression at the brick ends is less deep, because LDD does allow fitting the gear wheel above the other spaces between the tooths of the toothed bar (are you still with me? :wacko: ).

Posted Image

So it is actually a minor problem, more of a nuisance - just make sure you do not have to fit the wheel straight above the end of a toothed bar. :look:

#467 Superkalle

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:08 AM

View PostSjuip, on 10 January 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

A small 'borderline' problem. I encountered this one while building an alternate version of Creator Set 6753 Highway Transport in LDD 4.1.8 Extended.
Can you share the LXF?
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#468 Sjuip

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:27 PM

View PostSuperkalle, on 11 January 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Can you share the LXF?

Here's a mock-up of the problem: LXF
Posted Image
The red gear wheel will not fit onto the toothed bar, no matter how many degrees you turn it. The green wheel fits perfectly.
The difference between the two geared wheels is their position above the toothed bar: the red wheel is sitting right above the outer end of a toothed bar, while the green gear wheel just sits over the toothed bar. Even if you take away either of the two toothed bars, the red wheel does not want to fit. I therefore assume there is a boundary problem with the ends of Toothed Bar 3743.

#469 Superkalle

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:47 AM

View PostSjuip, on 11 January 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Here's a mock-up of the problem: LXF
Posted Image
The red gear wheel will not fit onto the toothed bar, no matter how many degrees you turn it. The green wheel fits perfectly.
The difference between the two geared wheels is their position above the toothed bar: the red wheel is sitting right above the outer end of a toothed bar, while the green gear wheel just sits over the toothed bar. Even if you take away either of the two toothed bars, the red wheel does not want to fit. I therefore assume there is a boundary problem with the ends of Toothed Bar 3743.
Even without a potential LDD problem, this whole things seems odd. Is this even a method that would work with real LEGO (without stress)? Just looking at the cogwheels and how they intersect with the toothed bar, it seems impossible as the cogs of the wheel "go into" the cogs of the bar - there is no play? Or is it just the toothec bar that is incorrectly modelled in LDD?
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#470 Calabar

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:29 AM

View PostSuperkalle, on 12 January 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Even without a potential LDD problem, this whole things seems odd.
I think this is simply a dummy "all-in-one" model to show the bug.
The "real" model is shown some post above.
It seems that the dummy model uses the same connection as the real model. I don't see any stress for the bricks, anyway!
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#471 Sjuip

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:45 PM

View PostCalabar, on 12 January 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

I think this is simply a dummy "all-in-one" model to show the bug.

Indeed, I posted a dummy (generic) model to explain the bug as requested by Superkalle.
Apparently the dummy also failed to explain the problem properly.  :blush:  

I encountered this one while building an alternate version of Creator Set 6753 Highway Transport in LDD 4.1.8 Extended. I have recently finished the model and it is now posted here. The bug is in Version 3 - the Salvage Truck. It is part of the salvage crane. The boom of the crane can be made to extend/retract by turning a single gear wheel that grips into the toothed bars on the boom.

If following the instructions, the initial position of the gear wheel is directly above the separation of the two toothed bars - it grips into the ends of both toothed bars. In that position, LDD does not allow it to be fitted (shown by Red Wheel in mock-up).
If - in LDD - the boom is moved (1 stud or more either way) the gear wheel is no longer positioned above the end of a toothed bar, but grips into the other teeth of the bar. Then LDD has no problem of letting the gear wheel fit and grip (shown by Green Wheel in mock-up).

Maybe this picture helps explaining:
Posted Image

It is official build: for the instructions for this Truck see here. The construction of the movable crane with gear wheel and the tooth bars is on pages 33-39.

I have an actual set at hand (it my son's). It is now in it's main transporter version (no chance to check the problem now - I need permission to touch it  :laugh: ). We have built it into this model before and I cannot remember encountering problems with brick stress in the crane.

As I've said before: I think it is a problem with the modelling (boundaries) of the ends of Toothed Bar 3743.

#472 Superkalle

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:55 PM

@Calabar, there's nothing wrong with the dummy. But if you open the LXF and zoom in you see the following.

Attached File  CogWheels.png   62.75K   5 downloads

Since the teeth are quite clearly going into each other that was why I was wondering if the build was legal or if it was a modelling error of the elements in LDD.

@Sjiup - When the cogwheel is placed at a slight angle (like the green one), the colission boxes (cogs) don't touch the base of the teethed bar. However, when the wheel is placed 100% perpendicular (in the red case), the boxes (cogs) touch the teethed bar and won't fit. So my conclusion is instead that it is the cogs of the cogwheel that are too long, and not the teeth of the bar.

Anyway, I'm reporting this littel sucker to TLG, and we'll see what they say.  :classic:
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#473 Sjuip

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:10 PM

View PostSuperkalle, on 12 January 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

@Sjiup - Now, about the error;  In each cog there is a rectangular colission box. When the cogwheel is placed at a slight angle (like the green one), the boxes (cogs) don't touch the base of the teethed bar. However, when the wheel is placed 100% perpendicular (in the red case), the boxes (cogs) touch the teethed bar and won't fit.

Anyway, I'm reporting this littel sucker to TLG, and we'll see what they say.  :classic:

I didn't look at it that closely, especially not the Green wheel. It fitted, so I was happy!
I was just trying to find out why LDD did not allow the Red wheel to fit - as it hampered my progress in building an offial set :devil: .

By the way: I encountered two other boundary collisions while building this Tow Truck from set 6753. Apparently, Wheel Rims turn out be bigger in LDD than in real life. Has that been reported before?

#474 Superkalle

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostSjuip, on 12 January 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

I didn't look at it that closely, especially not the Green wheel. It fitted, so I was happy!
I was just trying to find out why LDD did not allow the Red wheel to fit - as it hampered my progress in building an offial set :devil: .

By the way: I encountered two other boundary collisions while building this Tow Truck from set 6753. Apparently, Wheel Rims turn out be bigger in LDD than in real life. Has that been reported before?
I haven't seen it reported, but I see what you mean. However, I'm wondering if this is not a problem with the fine positiong of the wheel on the 6587 cross axle. If you move the wheel on the axle, you see that it won't "jump" exctly snuggly towards the adjecent bricks, and then the step module will not fit. Can it be like that you think?
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#475 Sjuip

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 08:16 AM

View PostSuperkalle, on 12 January 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I'm wondering if this is not a problem with the fine positiong of the wheel on the 6587 cross axle.

First on the Gear Wheel Problem. You are right :thumbup: . I tried fitting the Red Wheel (perpendicular position) when it is over the toothed bar (not on the end but in the middle) and then LDD also does not allow it to fit. So I agree the problem is probably in the Gear Wheel instead of in the Toothed Bar.

Now on the collision of the 2-stud wide steps and the Wheel Rims on the 6753 Tow Truck version.
I also had noticed the slight gap in the positioning of the Rims on the axle. I could not get LDD to make the position snug. That is why I tested the depth of the Rim in a dummy. On the truck, two Rims and the two-stud steps fit together in a 7-stud wide spot. Each Rim should therefore take up no more than 2 and a half stud. So I tried fitting a Wheel Rim on an axle between two rows of Technic Bricks, spaced 2 and a half stud apart. Guess what? Did not work either. In fact, you can then see the Rims go into the bricks. So my guess is that in LDD the Wheel Rims are dimensioned larger (deeper) than their actual size. In their regular use (in wheels on the outside of model) this is seldom a problem. It can be problematic, however, when you use them in other ways, as is the case with the fuel tanks on this Tow Truck.




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