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12V Conversion of Emerald Night 10194


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#1 LEGO Train 12 Volts

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:04 PM

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Hi everyone,
here you can find my last creation: Emerald Night modify for the 12 Volts.  :tongue:
You have to do this four steps:

1) Modify the new train buffers (cut away 3mm from the bottom of the buffers to avoid contact with the insert 12V of your track)

2) Use n. 2 Black Electric, Train 12V Brick 2 x 4 with Power Pickup for Old Train Motor  (cut away the arch on the front of the brick) Attached File  12V_Bricks.bmp   68.34K   249 downloads

3) Use n. 1 resistance of 22 Ohm (or a more safe 27 Ohm  :thumbup: ) placed in serial on the circuit to reduce the Volts from 12 to 9

4) Use n. 1 train weight on the tender (to improve the grip of the pick-up bricks)

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for more details see my link on

brickshelf

...see you soon with other projects!  :classic:
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#2 AMuller396

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:15 PM

Thanks for the info.  This comes in usefull if you want to make this kind of mod.

#3 Holodoc

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:18 PM

View PostAMuller396, on Apr 4 2010, 07:15 PM, said:

Thanks for the info.  This comes in usefull if you want to make this kind of mod.
Seconded. :thumbup:

But although I'm a train lover and have a 12V train, I refrain from these kind of mods.
I'm a doctor, not an electrician. :wink:
Even more interested in LEGO bricks & parts? Read Tim Johnson's (aka Caperberry) blog: Posted Image

#4 LEGO Train 12 Volts

LEGO Train 12 Volts

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:56 PM

View PostHolodoc, on Apr 4 2010, 08:18 PM, said:

Seconded. :thumbup:

But although I'm a train lover and have a 12V train, I refrain from these kind of mods.
I'm a doctor, not an electrician. :wink:

I've have an economy degree ...so I'm not an electrician too  :tongue: , but this MOD is very simple, you have to use only one component :thumbup: !
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#5 vgo

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 09:51 AM

You beat me to it! I'm working on a similar mod, except that the pickups are in the locomotive...

Excellent mod! :)

#6 lightningtiger

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 03:31 PM

View PostLEGO Train 12 Volts, on Apr 5 2010, 03:34 AM, said:

3) Use n. 1 resistance of 22 Ohm (or a more safe 27 Ohm  :thumbup: ) placed in serial on the circuit to reduce the Volts from 12 to 9
Now I've done the math, said resistor needs to be at least a half Watt type - I prefer to see wire wound types in this arrangement. Oh, yeah and keep that resistor away from any plastic (HOT HOT HOT) !
Keep on bricking ! :sweet:

#7 Beej

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:50 AM

It's amazing that you've made this topic LT12V, because I did a similar mod just a few weeks ago...

en_12v.jpg

I actually haven't used a resistor at all for the EN, I just try not to run it at full throttle for long periods. Don't skip the resistor if you value the longevity of the XL motor!

View Postlightningtiger, on Apr 7 2010, 12:31 AM, said:

Now I've done the math, said resistor needs to be at least a half Watt type - I prefer to see wire wound types in this arrangement. Oh, yeah and keep that resistor away from any plastic (HOT HOT HOT) !
In the cases where I do use a resistor, I prefer to use a 5W type so that temperatures are kept as low as possible. You don't want to risk a burn when picking up your trains after a bit of a run!

#8 LEGO Train 12 Volts

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:42 AM

View PostBeej, on Apr 7 2010, 11:50 AM, said:

It's amazing that you've made this topic LT12V, because I did a similar mod just a few weeks ago...

Attachment en_12v.jpg

I actually haven't used a resistor at all for the EN, I just try not to run it at full throttle for long periods. Don't skip the resistor if you value the longevity of the XL motor!


In the cases where I do use a resistor, I prefer to use a 5W type so that temperatures are kept as low as possible. You don't want to risk a burn when picking up your trains after a bit of a run!

Awesome works with that tender!  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:
You have used the original wheels of Emerald Night set (more sliding than wheels of 12volt era). I will be pleaased to see more pictures about the top of the tender gear ...and also of the red locomotive (did I see well?) :blush: .
Only one doubt: using original wheels don't you increase the gap between the rail and contacts? :sceptic:

Actually I'm working about a new convertion system (12volts to 9volts) with a voltage regulator (like the L7809CV) ...soon I hope to post the new electronic circuit ...this final solution will allow to use the XL motor at full throttle forever without any problem! :thumbup:
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#9 Mark Bellis

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:43 PM

View PostLEGO Train 12 Volts, on Apr 13 2010, 05:42 AM, said:

Actually I'm working about a new convertion system (12volts to 9volts) with a voltage regulator (like the L7809CV) ...soon I hope to post the new electronic circuit ...this final solution will allow to use the XL motor at full throttle forever without any problem! :thumbup:

Are you intending to just power an IR receiver with the regulated 12V input?  It would not be as simple as using just a 9V voltage regulator!  Yes, a 9V regulator would work with 12V input as most regulators need the input to be at least 2V above the output.  The regulator would dissipate lots of heat (3 Volts headroom at 1 Amp = 3 Watts), requiring a heatsink as well as ventilation in its location in the train (to avoid melting bricks!).  Heatsinks have a rating of degrees C per Watt and bricks would start to melt above about 45 degrees C (hence the 40-wash symbol on the box).  If ambient temperature is up to 25 degrees C, you have only 20 degrees C to play with, so you would need a maximum of 6 degrees C per Watt for the heatsink, making it quite large!  A Switch Mode Power Supply might be better (less heat dissipation and more efficient).  The regulator in the 9V controller has a heatsink sufficient for it to provide about 300mA, but an XL motor needs a bit more current than that as the train gets longer.

You could do direct drive (not IR) by turning the settings of the 12V controller into proportional voltage levels in the 0-9V scale, whilst providing enough current to the XL motor to get full mechanical power to pull the train.  The required circuit for that would be a smoothed power divider, passing an average of 3/4 of the voltage to the 9V motor output whilst removing the unevenness of the input voltage (oscillating at 50-100Hz) and passing up to 1 Amp of current.  3V ant 1A = 3 Watts of heat to dissipate in the transistor, which would need heatsinking similar to the regulator.

Alternatively you could use a PWM solution, providing power similar to the output of a Power Functions IR Receiver (higher frequency, which is why motors 'sing').  Either an LB1836 motor controller chip (the one used in the receiver and the NXT) or 4 transistors would be used for the motor driver.  You would need a voltage-to-timing circuit to get the proportions right, perhaps using a 555 timer chip, which does that sort of thing well.  The PWM solution should not dissipate so much heat in the transistors, but might heat the motor a bit more, but only within the PF system limits as if the motor were driven by a PF IR Receiver.

Mark
Mark J E Bellis - 8mm Scale LEGO Railways, Scenery and Technic. Visit My Brickshelf
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#10 LEGO Train 12 Volts

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 11:10 PM

Hi everyone,
here you can see my final creation to obtain a perfect 9Volts output from 12Volts, using a voltage regulator like the  semiconductor LM7809.
The electric layout is designed as follow

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and is realized to fit in the Emerald Nigh's tender  :tongue:

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#11 LEGO Train 12 Volts

LEGO Train 12 Volts

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 07:29 AM

To see other pictures visit brickshelf gallery

http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=430591
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#12 hoeij

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 04:12 PM

View PostBeej, on Apr 7 2010, 06:50 AM, said:

It's amazing that you've made this topic LT12V, because I did a similar mod just a few weeks ago...

Attachment en_12v.jpg

I actually haven't used a resistor at all for the EN, I just try not to run it at full throttle for long periods. Don't skip the resistor if you value the longevity of the XL motor!


In the cases where I do use a resistor, I prefer to use a 5W type so that temperatures are kept as low as possible. You don't want to risk a burn when picking up your trains after a bit of a run!

I don't think that adding a resistor is a good idea.  What it will do is slow down the train
drastically in the curves, but slow it down very little on the straights  (in curves the train
draws a lot more current than it does on the straights).
That makes it more difficult to control the speed of the train.  Just run it without a
resistor, and simply don't run it too fast.

Mark


View Posthoeij, on May 31 2010, 12:08 PM, said:

I don't think that adding a resistor is a good idea.  What it will do is slow down the train
drastically in the curves, but slow it down very little on the straights  (in curves the train
draws a lot more current than it does on the straights).
That makes it more difficult to control the speed of the train.  Just run it without a
resistor, and simply don't run it too fast.

Mark

One more thing, why not simply connect a 9V controller to the track?  This seems
so much simpler than converting 12 to 9.

Moreover, it will also run better that way (less slowdown in curves) because the 9V
power supply is regulated and the 12V power supply is not (at least, the one I have from
the blue area, the voltage at the power supply decreases noticeably when the train
goes through a curve).

Even with a 9V power supply, the train will of course still slow down in the curves,
but not as much as with the old 12V power supply.

Mark

#13 LEGO Train 12 Volts

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 10:55 PM

View Posthoeij, on May 31 2010, 05:12 PM, said:

One more thing, why not simply connect a 9V controller to the track?  This seems
so much simpler than converting 12 to 9.

If you have a 12Volts track with several 12V locomotives, remote signals and switches it's not so simple to convert all this stuff into 9volts!  :tongue:
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#14 Legonz

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 01:23 AM

View PostLEGO Train 12 Volts, on 03 June 2010 - 10:55 PM, said:

If you have a 12Volts track with several 12V locomotives, remote signals and switches it's not so simple to convert all this stuff into 9volts!  :tongue:

Hi

Sorry to revive an old thread; I've just dug out my old 12v trains for my son and have been eagerly looking at the newer models and wondering if any of them can be easily run on 12v.    I have a couple of spare 12v motors - I'm definitely not an electrician either so couldn't do anything with resistors etc.    Can anyone suggest any recent or older non 12v models that can be run fairly easily by chucking a 12v motor underneath?    Or is this just not possible.     Apologies for the stupid question -

Thanks

David

#15 TheBrickster

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:24 AM

Why not introduce yourself before you pop in to revive a two-year old topic. This topic for new members might help explain.

#16 Legonz

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:36 AM

View PostTheBrickster, on 23 January 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Why not introduce yourself before you pop in to revive a two-year old topic. This for new members might help explain.

HI there,

Sorry about that Brickster - did read the site guidelines but didn't see the post you've directed me to - am not very experienced in posting in forums etc...

Cheers

David

#17 TheBrickster

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:42 AM

View PostLegonz, on 23 January 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

Sorry about that Brickster - did read the site guidelines but didn't see the post you've directed me to
Thanks for understanding David.  All new members are always welcome here and it's okay to ask a question. I generally like to know who you are first (as do other members).  We also get a lot of kiddies whose introductions usually help filter the less mature.  In any case, perhaps some of our 12V experts may be able to help you with your question.

#18 Beej

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 12:58 PM

View PostLegonz, on 23 January 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Hi

Sorry to revive an old thread; I've just dug out my old 12v trains for my son and have been eagerly looking at the newer models and wondering if any of them can be easily run on 12v.    I have a couple of spare 12v motors - I'm definitely not an electrician either so couldn't do anything with resistors etc.    Can anyone suggest any recent or older non 12v models that can be run fairly easily by chucking a 12v motor underneath?    Or is this just not possible.     Apologies for the stupid question -

Thanks

David
Hi David,

Welcome to Train Tech!

It's actually very easy to do the conversion you have mentioned. Any of the 9V and RC sets can be converted by simply removing the 9V or RC motor and replacing it with a 12V motor. PF trains other than the Emerald Night can also be converted in the same manner as they use a very similar motor to the 12V motor as well.

The Emerald Night is slightly harder, and that was the original topic of this thread. As you can see it's certainly not impossible though, it just needs some imagination!

#19 Legonz

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 08:19 PM

View PostBeej, on 23 January 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Hi David,

Welcome to Train Tech!

It's actually very easy to do the conversion you have mentioned. Any of the 9V and RC sets can be converted by simply removing the 9V or RC motor and replacing it with a 12V motor. PF trains other than the Emerald Night can also be converted in the same manner as they use a very similar motor to the 12V motor as well.

The Emerald Night is slightly harder, and that was the original topic of this thread. As you can see it's certainly not impossible though, it just needs some imagination!

Hi,

Thanks very much for the reply - that's great to know and widens the options when looking for additional trains!    Might give it a bit longer before I attempt the Emerald Night, don't have the first clue about resistors etc...!

Cheers

David.



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