104 replies to this topic

[RocketClone]

Even though Trexxen already explained it (almost) what i meant KimT was that it might effect how people view this site if we just go around and tell people to go because their underaged. And some members that are underaged make really good MOCs and im sure you of all people would want kids(or teens) to be inspired to build.

Just my humble thoughts though.

[Zzz]

What keeps me from using EB more often and intense are immature posts and behaviour, and as far as my knowledge reached, it wasn't always and only teenagers acting in an arrogant or offensive way, but also respectable adult members with a high rank/ reputation.

Second, I found it amusing that some themes attract or provoke more immature behaviour than others and I am already prepared to either deal with pages of nonsense posts and harsh attitudes or nice and mature statements depending on the forum I visit here.

Third, I sometimes find the lack of creativity and playability occuring in posts of adult members very unsatisfying and dry, hence their focus on collecting, not playing.

And all of this and much more leading to the conclusion, that certain attitudes and not younger members prevent this page from being most entertaining to me. Younger members even contribute, what I am not willing to miss in the future.

[RocketClone]

Zzz, on Jan 30 2010, 01:52 PM, said:

What keeps me from using EB more often and intense are immature posts and behaviour, and as far as my knowledge reached, it wasn't always and only teenagers acting in an arrogant or offensive way, but also respectable adult members with a high rank/ reputation.

Second, I found it amusing that some themes attract or provoke more immature behaviour than others and I am already prepared to either deal with pages of nonsense posts and harsh attitudes or nice and mature statements depending on the forum I visit here.

Third, I sometimes find the lack of creativity and playability occuring in posts of adult members very unsatisfying and dry, hence their focus on collecting, not playing.

And all of this and much more leading to the conclusion, that certain attitudes and not younger members prevent this page from being most entertaining to me. Younger members even contribute, what I am not willing to miss in the future.

Well said Zzz.

[def]

Zzz, on Jan 31 2010, 03:52 AM, said:

What keeps me from using EB more often and intense are immature posts and behaviour, and as far as my knowledge reached, it wasn't always and only teenagers acting in an arrogant or offensive way, but also respectable adult members with a high rank/ reputation.

Second, I found it amusing that some themes attract or provoke more immature behaviour than others and I am already prepared to either deal with pages of nonsense posts and harsh attitudes or nice and mature statements depending on the forum I visit here.

Third, I sometimes find the lack of creativity and playability occuring in posts of adult members very unsatisfying and dry, hence their focus on collecting, not playing.

And all of this and much more leading to the conclusion, that certain attitudes and not younger members prevent this page from being most entertaining to me. Younger members even contribute, what I am not willing to miss in the future.

I can agree with some of what you're saying, but in other places I think you're off the mark.

Of course some adults post immature stuff.  The age requirement is not in order to make every post stoic and proper.  There is as element of adults acting like kids on this site.  That's not Eurobricks, that's just adult life these days, adults like to crack jokes and that sort of thing.

Talking about how adults use their Lego, well, that's just irritating to me.  I'm an adult, I like building Lego sets.  I've done a lot of reviews of sets for the site.  I collect it.  I never really play with Lego except for posing it.  That's what I do.  Sorry if it's "unsatisfying and dry" how I use my Lego.  Maybe I'll stop collecting  

The title of this thread is "Target Age Group".  It's not saying teenagers are bad (I can vouch for two teenage users here myself).  It's that the target audience is AFOL.  With that, teens and kids obviously acting like teens and kids will be banned.  I don't think any mod here has made this a witch-hunt for underage posters.


Not responding to you, but to the talk about spelling.   You know what?  Adults make spelling mistakes.  Hopefully not rampantly, but it happens.  Perfect spelling is not what the 18+ rule is all about, in my opinion.  The English Rules and Clarity part here explain it pretty well http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=18718


On a side note, referring to two posters in this thread: Having "clone" in your name is a quick way to look like a kid, since the Clone Wars has attracted so many new Lego fans.  Having "clone" in your name and complaining about the 18+ rule makes you look that much more like a kid.

[Chris Phipson]

I feel I should clarify from my last post. In that post, if read without background knowledge of what I was talking about and where I was coming from (basically, most EB users as I am new here) it would seem that I was saying to get rid of the TFOLs that are here and lock it down. This was NOT the case. I too believe that there should be a certain amount of leniency and the "don't ask don't tell" system seems to be working for the most part. I feel that there are a large number of TFOLs (A few names that come to mind quickly are Legolord, Sir Nadroj and JD Luse) that can and do interact with the AFOL community on a very mature and well spoken level. If how they conducted themselves was the standard for all TFOL (and yes... more than a few AFOLs) then there would be a much wider acceptance of them on "adult" sites.

In closure, I think the current way of doing things is working well from what I've seen so far... all 5 days of it. HAHAHAHA

~Chris.

[Ryan_T]

Siegfried, on Jan 4 2010, 09:08 PM, said:

We probably won't ban you for it, but it makes it clear that you lied while joining, and that's a bad way to start. Once we've noted this we then know that you're a likely immature member and you will be watched more.

How old would you, or anyone, say I am? I actually started a forum specifically for TFOL's, just a few days ago. I didn't post anything about it here, mainly because I don't think it would be allowed and then here comes some drama. So I guess this would be a nice topic to ask if I can put a sigbar for my forum in my signature? I'll be sure to add EB as #1 in the link's on the website when it becomes public. (not the forums)  

[Rick]

def, on Jan 30 2010, 11:00 PM, said:

Of course some adults post immature stuff.  The age requirement is not in order to make every post stoic and proper.  There is as element of adults acting like kids on this site.  That's not Eurobricks, that's just adult life these days, adults like to crack jokes and that sort of thing.

Agreed, in general I like the 'tone' on EB a lot. Sure there are people to whom it's not serious enough, but EB is like EB is, you can't change that instantly. And certainly not by imposing - for example - age requirements. Also, EB is far from static, the 'tone' of EB evolves depending on the member base, for good or worse. The 'tone' in a certain theme is obviously dependent on the people who are posting a lot in certain forums. Sometimes this number is so small that you can easily make a difference - and influence the 'tone' - yourself.

Quote

Talking about how adults use their Lego, well, that's just irritating to me.  I'm an adult, I like building Lego sets.  I've done a lot of reviews of sets for the site.  I collect it.  I never really play with Lego except for posing it.  That's what I do.  Sorry if it's "unsatisfying and dry" how I use my Lego.  Maybe I'll stop collecting  

Live and let live. Everyone has their approach to the hobby.

Quote

On a side note, referring to two posters in this thread: Having "clone" in your name is a quick way to look like a kid, since the Clone Wars has attracted so many new Lego fans.  Having "clone" in your name and complaining about the 18+ rule makes you look that much more like a kid.

That's not the first association I have when I see 'clone' at all, but that could be just me. More importantly, I don't think you should be drawing any conclusions from someone's screen name. One of the funniest screen names on EB has 'clone' in it (I Scream Clone).  

[def]

Rick, on Jan 31 2010, 05:51 PM, said:

That's not the first association I have when I see 'clone' at all, but that could be just me. More importantly, I don't think you should be drawing any conclusions from someone's screen name. One of the funniest screen names on EB has 'clone' in it (I Scream Clone).  

I Scream Clone and Clone O'Patra are two I wouldn't put in that boat, but surf the Star Wars forum, and you'll find a lot of clones, commanders, and other Clone Wars names.

Change what I wrote to using Clone Wars names and images, not simply the word "clone"  

[Captain Zuloo]

I don't think that is entirely fair, there's no reason why a mature adult (or TFOL for that matter) can't like the Clone Wars enough to make their display name based around it.

[Sinner]

Zzz, on Jan 31 2010, 05:52 AM, said:

What keeps me from using EB more often and intense are immature posts and behaviour, and as far as my knowledge reached, it wasn't always and only teenagers acting in an arrogant or offensive way, but also respectable adult members with a high rank/ reputation.

Zzz, on Jan 31 2010, 05:52 AM, said:

Third, I sometimes find the lack of creativity and playability occuring in posts of adult members very unsatisfying and dry, hence their focus on collecting, not playing.

Interesting combination. So you want mature but fresh posts from adults creatively playing with LEGO?

Captain Zuloo, on Jan 31 2010, 10:51 PM, said:

I don't think that is entirely fair, there's no reason why a mature adult (or TFOL for that matter) can't like the Clone Wars enough to make their display name based around it.

I like the Clone Wars more than RotS.  

Ryan_T, on Jan 31 2010, 10:52 AM, said:

So I guess this would be a nice topic to ask if I can put a sigbar for my forum in my signature?

Send me a PM.

[def]

Captain Zuloo, on Jan 31 2010, 08:51 PM, said:

I don't think that is entirely fair, there's no reason why a mature adult (or TFOL for that matter) can't like the Clone Wars enough to make their display name based around it.

Honestly, I'm not writing any hard rules here.  I was just saying it looks younger....  You're right, an adult could well use Clone Wars for their display name.

[RocketClone]

So what your saying Rick is that someone shouldn't be judged by their screen name? well said.
One time when i was using the FBTB chat i was told to get off because of my screen name.(RocketClone)
In other words what im trying to say is that no person should be judged by their names on certain forums.

[def]

RocketClone, on Feb 1 2010, 12:47 AM, said:

In other words what im trying to say is that no person should be judged by their names on certain forums.

Should they be judged by their names on other forums?     No worries, I withdraw anything I've said about Clone Wars members here.  My mistake, and I apologize for any stress it's caused AFOL who are also AFOCW.

[CP5670]

Quote

Agreed, in general I like the 'tone' on EB a lot. Sure there are people to whom it's not serious enough, but EB is like EB is, you can't change that instantly. And certainly not by imposing - for example - age requirements. Also, EB is far from static, the 'tone' of EB evolves depending on the member base, for good or worse. The 'tone' in a certain theme is obviously dependent on the people who are posting a lot in certain forums. Sometimes this number is so small that you can easily make a difference - and influence the 'tone' - yourself.

I've pretty much said everything I wanted to in this thread, but an interesting example backing up what you said can be found in Lugnet. Lugnet had a more serious atmosphere than EB (often overly so I think) despite having an official age limit of 13 and little enforcement of even that in practice. The EB community has struck a better balance with this and is more in line with other internet forums in general, but it does show that the overall mood of a place and the actual ages are determined more by other factors than age limits.

[AwesomeStar]

Being on a public computer at the moment and with the first two pages being blocked by the computer's filter for some unknown reason, I can't view the OP, but I get the drift of this thread anyway.

Much of what I want to say has been said, but I post here to express my agreement and add myopinion to the matter.
Indeed, without TFOLs, EB would be severely reduced interms of numbers, as well as a great amount of builders, posters and generally extremely nice people.

Allow me to be a little more intimate: when I think of EB, the community, and what it has given me as a person and a Lego fan, I feel very warm and erm, fuzzy, inside, because I believe that it has nurtured me not only as a builder and a poster but as a human being as well.

EDIT:

I'm back home now and have read the OP, so now I understand the whole discussion, and see both sides fully. And I agree, if people younger than 18 join the site and act maturely, there shouldn't really be a problem with that.  

Edited by AwesomeStar, 02 February 2010 - 04:46 PM.

[Omicron]

CP5670, on Jan 14 2010, 07:10 PM, said:

I was referring to your original statement that a poster saying that they are under 18 would result in a warning or ban because they "lied" about being an adult when they joined.

Question in regards to this. Wouldn't it still be lying even if they didn't mention they are underage? Suppose you knew me before I joined EB and knew I was under 18 (Lets say I am 16 for sake of argument). Now knowing that I am 16 you see me join EB but I don't tell anyone that I am 16 even though it is made clear beforehand on sites like Flickr or some other Lego forum. However I happen to be a great MOCer and a good member so you keep me here anyways. I don't see how revealing your real age is where you start laying down the warnings and bannings when you already lied by joining.

-Omi

Edited by Omicron, 04 February 2010 - 11:51 PM.

[Clone O'Patra]

It's not lying to withhold information about someone, it's just selectively saying things.  Who is going to go reporting all sorts of stuff about an acquaintance of theirs if that person joins EB also?

The intent of the first post was to say "don't go about flaunting your age if you're under 18."  That's it.  Nobody's going to ask who old you are, and if they do, you don't have to tell them.  Even if you're 45, you might not feel like sharing that, so it's no big deal not to share information.  Just don't go about saying that you are under the age guideline.

[Omicron]

Clone O'Patra, on Feb 4 2010, 09:19 PM, said:

It's not lying to withhold information about someone, it's just selectively saying things.  Who is going to go reporting all sorts of stuff about an acquaintance of theirs if that person joins EB also?

The intent of the first post was to say "don't go about flaunting your age if you're under 18."  That's it.  Nobody's going to ask who old you are, and if they do, you don't have to tell them.  Even if you're 45, you might not feel like sharing that, so it's no big deal not to share information.  Just don't go about saying that you are under the age guideline.

But it all goes back to what Siegfried said about "lying".

-Omi

[Clone O'Patra]

Omicron, on Feb 4 2010, 09:25 PM, said:

But it all goes back to what Siegfried said about "lying".

Yah, if you're under 18 then you lied when it said to confirm that you're over 18 when you joined.  Your point?

[Omicron]

Clone O'Patra, on Feb 4 2010, 10:17 PM, said:

Yah, if you're under 18 then you lied when it said to confirm that you're over 18 when you joined.  Your point?

All the young members lied. :P

Which to go back to what Siegfried said:

Quote

We probably won't ban you for it, but it makes it clear that you lied while joining, and that's a bad way to start. Once we've noted this we then know that you're a likely immature member and you will be watched more.

Even though he said this when you admit your age, but if everyone knows you are underage without admitting.

For example, SirNadroj is a young member. He is a member of this site. Whether or not he admitted to his real age is out the question but in terms of joining he lied. Does this now place him in the "likely immature" category?

I just don't see how a member who admits their age suddenly gets watched while those you know who are young (and don't admit) aren't watched and automatically labeled likely immature.

-Omi

Edited by Omicron, 05 February 2010 - 03:31 AM.

[Trexxen]

Well, as to why younger members don't get watched if they don't say anything, that's because there's no feasible way for the mods/admins to know their age. =P But as for the rest of the argument, I think it all depends on how the member admits to their age. If, for instance, their sig says something like "14 and proud of it!" (and if anyone has that actually in their sig, uh...sorry XD), yes, I believe they should be potentially watched. However, in the same vein, if someone brings it up as part of a casual conversation or because they are asked, and plays it off coolly or doesn't make a big deal of it (Example: "...and since you asked, I'm 14"), then I feel that's acceptable and shows a bit of maturity.

Basically, don't make a big deal of your age. If you walk around basically saying "HA! I'm 16 and I'm on an adults only site! Suck it!" then yeah, you're going to get watched/chambered/banned. But if you just play it cool, I don't see the big deal as long as it's not a focal point of a conversation. =P

~Trexxen

[Omicron]

Trexxen, on Feb 4 2010, 10:42 PM, said:

Well, as to why younger members don't get watched if they don't say anything, that's because there's no feasible way for the mods/admins to know their age.

Talking about members that you know beforehand that are young and then join EB.

Or later learn they are young when they still don't admit.

-Omi

[def]

Omicron, on Feb 5 2010, 11:25 AM, said:

I just don't see how a member who admits their age suddenly gets watched while those you know who are young (and don't admit) aren't watched and automatically labeled likely immature.

Because people who don't advertise when they do stuff that's against the rules are showing discretion.  People who advertise that they break the rules, even casually, are flaunting themselves.

This is a little off topic, but a decent metaphor I think.  I had friends in university who were smoking a joint in the park (in Canada, it's not very illegal, but 'officially' it's not okay).  A cop on a bike rode through, and they all stood up straight, acted innocent, tossed the joint.  So the cop came over.  He told them, "I know what you were doing, and really, I don't care.  But, there's lots of people here.  If you start acting weird when you see me, I have to come over, because everybody has seen you were doing something wrong.  That's my job."  The end result, the cop rode off, no ticket or anything, but he didn't tell them not to smoke joints at the park.  He told them to not to make issues of it/be obvious about it.  The lesson?  The word of the law is not always the same as the intent of the law.

That's what I feel like is going on at this site.  The mods aren't looking for underage members at all, they're just looking for members disrupting the 'adult' flow.  When people start making issues like, "What about this 14-year old who makes MOCs?" they're missing the point.  You need rules, and the mods here tend to be lenient about enforcing them.  I'm very impressed with the way things are run here, which is why membership seems to be expanding solidly.

[Omicron]

My concern is the members being automatically labeled as likely immature and suddenly watched right from the get go.

-Omi

[def]

Omicron, on Feb 5 2010, 12:03 PM, said:

My concern is the members being automatically labeled as likely immature and suddenly watched right from the get go.

-Omi

Then they shouldn't draw attention to themselves.  They should show discretion.