Omicron Posted January 25, 2010 Really though, have you ever tried an av-matoran set? Pick any 2008 matoran, 2009 agori or 2010 star. Chest, armor torso, hips and neck all come from a single giantic piece that looks awful. You then attach the limbs and it is ready... It is a kids toy. What do you expect? -Omi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vexorian Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) It is a kids toy. What do you expect?-Omi Isn't it supposed to be a LEGO-produced kids toy? Creator sets are aimed at younger kids and their impulse sets are a lot more buildable... I expect something along the lines of pre 2008 matoran which were also kids toys and actually much less expensive. Edited January 25, 2010 by vexorian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omicron Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Something along the lines of previous years' matoran which were also kids toys? Creator sets are aimed at younger kids and their impulse sets are a lot more buildable... Times change. Also looking back on the Matoran of previous years (Mctoran, 03 Matoran, Metruan), those were all simple builds as well and you can build them without instructions. -Omi Edited January 25, 2010 by Omicron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vexorian Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Times change.Also looking back on the Matoran of previous years (Mctoran, 03 Matoran, Metruan), those were all simple builds as well and you can build them without instructions. -Omi Mctoran don't count. The rest were simple . And simple is nice. But just because they were simple it didn't mean they were oversimplified. They had pins and axles and not a giantic, awful multi-use torso. The parts can actually be used on things that are not Matoran. The piece count/price ratio is a magnitude better. Seriously, compare a Voyaran with an Av-matoran. Take a look at the builds, the price and also consider the Voyaran's combiners. As a bonus, consider how Av-matoran look like deformed monsters, while voyaran just look like chibi toa. Edited January 25, 2010 by vexorian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omicron Posted January 25, 2010 Mctoran don't count. And why not? They are sets. -Omi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vexorian Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Tangent. McDonalds promotions are always awfully far from being buildable and that's always the case on every theme not bionicle. Nevertheless, they were just the early 2001 attempt and are the exception rather than the rule. Now that I think of it, thanks for bringing the mctoran up, I forgot they were free... It is interesting av.matoran cost as much as a toa-mata and are barely as interesting building-wise as the mctoran... and mctoran even managed to have a function... It is getting off-topic though. I don't think it is arguable that there have been major changes (for worse) in piece count, piece usability, building experience and price between the 2007 matoran and the 2008 matoran. If you really disagree with this point then arguing with you is a waste of time. If you do agree with this point then I do not really have to continue arguing as that's the only point I was trying to make. Edited January 25, 2010 by vexorian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bfahome Posted January 25, 2010 Nevertheless, they were just the early 2001 attempt and are the exception rather than the rule, oh and they were free. Wow, they were free? I was under the impression that you had to buy a crappy meal to get one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omicron Posted January 25, 2010 Tangent. McDonalds promotions are always awfully far from being buildable and that's always the case on every theme not bionicle.Nevertheless, they were just the early 2001 attempt and are the exception rather than the rule, oh and they were free. It is interesting av.matoran cost as much as a toa-mata and are barely as interesting building-wise as the mctoran... They are still sets, bagged as sets, given official set numbers. But if you don't want to include those ones, thats alright, cuz there are other "Mctoran" figures that were released by Lego and still count. -Omi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vexorian Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Wow, they were free? I was under the impression that you had to buy a crappy meal to get one. Hmnn, you are right. I forgot to factor the whole "risk of dying from poison" into the equation, so maybe with that in mind the av-matoran and mctoran are tied. I didn't have to buy nor eat that meal to get Onepu, I feel lucky. Edited January 25, 2010 by vexorian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omicron Posted January 25, 2010 Hmnn, you are right. I forgot to factor the whole "risk of dying from poison" into the equation, so maybe with that in mind the av-matoran and mctoran are tied.I didn't have to buy nor eat that meal to get Onepu, I feel lucky. Actually you don't even have to buy happy meals to get the toys. :P It is all of a matter of being polite, buy a soda, and ask. :P -Omi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
---Vertea--- Posted January 25, 2010 Actually you don't even have to buy happy meals to get the toys. :PIt is all of a matter of being polite, buy a soda, and ask. :P -Omi really? Oh, man I wish I'd known that when it was available... now all I have is a McToran Matoro.... I wanted Onepu so badly... But on topic, I don't mind a simple build if the parts look awesome. And given that these are impulses, I don't care about complexity. The canisters, on the other hand, are what I look to for buildablility in a quasi-simplistic form. Just enough to make a figure, but not too much, that I could make two out of one. And then we have the box sets which should ALWAYS give an interesting build. And so far, Hero Factory looks most promising for canister and box sets alike. Just because our protagonists are... compact... doesn't mean we should hate it- It just means the villains will be actual challenges. Like Shadow of the Colossus or the Legend of Zelda. Big bad guys, tiny good guys. Makes for fun battles :) And on that note, what do you guys think of the new villains? Personally, I LOVE Corroder and Meltown. Corroder's head is pure win, and the canisters on Meltdown will be great in several giant robot MOCs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_shaddow_ Posted January 25, 2010 They had pins and axles and not a giantic, awful multi-use torso. Sorry to say that, but, the fact that you don't find ways to use a piece doesn't mean that the piece isn't usable in multiple purposes... it's all about imagination. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
---Vertea--- Posted January 25, 2010 Sorry to say that, but, the fact that you don't find ways to use a piece doesn't mean that the piece isn't usable in multiple purposes... it's all about imagination. Precisely. These new torso parts are nicely angled like a real body, which will make them nice for creating any sort of bipedal thing- but that's just a fringe use. they could be used as really whatever you want. The new armor may looks one-purpose, but if attached right, it could make a formidable ion canon, or paneling to a rugged vehicle. The pre-made limbs are the only thing that are probably stuck on a single use- as an arm with a gun attached. But they look cool, so bring on small ready-made soldiers! I see this as aesthetically pleasing specifically the way the torso is designed- the bodies are more three dimensional thatn the Inika build, meaning that our figures will look more solid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leugi Posted January 25, 2010 Sorry to say that, but, the fact that you don't find ways to use a piece doesn't mean that the piece isn't usable in multiple purposes... it's all about imagination. Yeah, but, they could have made it nicer using a wee bit more pieces for doing the same exact thing(as in, instead of a block with five round things for arms and head, a torso in which you put the five round things with other five pieces), it would work and look similarly, yet it would be useful for even more situations... It would be more fun to build, it wouldn't be too complex, and it would be useful, that'd make them more worth the expense... Anyways... I guess there's not much we can do about it, or can we? We can simply hope for hero factory to evolutionize nicely, because the starting point ain't that bad.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
---Vertea--- Posted January 25, 2010 I wonder if the scans feature the villains? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaktan of the Shadows Posted January 25, 2010 Wow. Well, I guess I expected this. -ZotS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vexorian Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Sorry to say that, but, the fact that you don't find ways to use a piece doesn't mean that the piece isn't usable in multiple purposes... it's all about imagination. At the price you have to pay to get that awful av-matoran torso it better be usable in anything you can possibly imagine and more. Imagination is not a good excuse from LEGO's part to reduce the piece count and add more overly specialized parts to the mix, it is a reduction of quality. Sure with imagination someone you can do some stuff with these parts, but with better parts the same person would be able to do much more. In case of the av-matoran torso, if it had all the ball points as separated pieces, you would be able to use it for a lot more things and also for things that require that specific shape. Even the designers themselves with all their imagination seemed limited in what they can do with that torso. See skrall star for a sample of how it was not even possible to have a hunched av-matoran without having having the torso's left overs ruin everything. I don't hate HF, it is too soon to judge it as a line. But the heroes' build is too av-matoranish for my taste and they are all cloned, so I won't be getting them. The villains give me hope. Do notice all we have are CGI approximations of the sets so it is likely they will look much worse in real life. Also, What's up with people considering 8 USD sets as "impulse"? Edited January 25, 2010 by vexorian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Front Posted January 25, 2010 Kids being able to build a figure without help from parents = building pleasure = quality Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheesey skrall Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) And on that note, what do you guys think of the new villains? Personally, I LOVE Corroder and Meltown. Corroder's head is pure win, and the canisters on Meltdown will be great in several giant robot MOCs i love the bad guys! i want to get meltdown really badly! I see this as aesthetically pleasing specifically the way the torso is designed- the bodies are more three dimensional thatn the Inika build, meaning that our figures will look more solid.These new torso parts are nicely angled like a real body, which will make them nice for creating any sort of bipedal thing- but that's just a fringe use. they could be used as really whatever you want. The new armor may looks one-purpose, but if attached right, it could make a formidable ion canon, or paneling to a rugged vehicle. The pre-made limbs are the only thing that are probably stuck on a single use- as an arm with a gun attached. But they look cool, so bring on small ready-made soldiers! i can imagen me with a small army of these guys! I wonder if the scans feature the villains? i hope so! also, its weird that I agree with everything you have just said! Edited January 25, 2010 by cheesey skrall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Artahn Posted January 25, 2010 Kids being able to build a figure without help from parents = building pleasure = quality When you get killed by everyone else on this topic, can I have your sets? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vexorian Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Kids being able to build a figure without help from parents = building pleasure = quality Are we thinking about the target group (7+) or much younger? I'd said LEGO suitable 7 year olds are able to build even the inika without help. Nevertheless, it is not like the lower end needed help to build the pre 2008 matoran... Seriously, an impulse creator set is harder than those. At this rate, even creator sets will come pre-built, I guess that will be a quality success. --- This is boring, need better pics of the villains already. Edited January 25, 2010 by vexorian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trionx Posted January 25, 2010 The thing I find interesting about this whole debate is that half the people here don't seem to realize that the Heroes aren't MEANT to be aimed at MOCers, their only purpose is to sell sets. And LEGO isn't ramming them down your throat to buy them, just focus on the villains. You know, the guys that have actual building value? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Front Posted January 25, 2010 Are we thinking about the target group (7+) or much younger? I'd said LEGO suitable 7 year olds are able to build even the inika without help. Nevertheless, it is not like the lower end needed help to build the pre 2008 matoran... Seriously, an impulse creator set is harder than those.At this rate, even creator sets will come pre-built, I guess that will be a quality success. --- This is boring, need better pics of the villains already. Try and watch a 6 year old putting a ball in a ball cup, or connecting a torso and a pelvis piece with two Technic bushings. They struggle, half the time turning the torso backside facing front. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Crazy One Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Try and watch a 6 year old putting a ball in a ball cup, or connecting a torso and a pelvis piece with two Technic bushings. They struggle, half the time turning the torso backside facing front. Its true. Heck, I even struggled with system when I was that young. Edited January 25, 2010 by The crazy one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaktan of the Shadows Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Yeah, I see that a lot. In fact, I have to help people around my age even, with their first technic fig (which is actually pretty surprising). -ZotS Edited January 25, 2010 by Zaktan of the Shadows Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
