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WIP Phantom MkII


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134 replies to this topic  – Started by ZCerberus , Oct 26 2009 05:09 PM

#51 ZCerberus

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:39 PM

Some new shots of what I have been working on... Still early, but I like the shape.

I removed the mid section of the phantom to begin my work, and realized it was going to cause a complete overhaul.  Here is the current progress... you can sort of see the progress on the various sections.

What do you think?

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Here is a look at the enhanced tumblehomme and the interior tiling.

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The part with the studs still showing will be tiled.  I think I might try to make it gold and dark blue to see how that works...

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And the new way to attach the platforms to the masts.  I think this is going to work well.  I will try to get some better shots of this when I have more progress, but it is all SNOT build and very stable.

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A few more parting shots to look at...

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Because the middle section was missing on the Phantom, I thought I could stick the other two halves together just for show.  The result is somewhat comical, but fun!

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#52 Captain Blackmoor

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:52 PM

Wow, I'm impressed! What a great update! The dark red tiling works really well, and I'm defenitely sure metallic gold and dark blue looks great with those colours. The mast platform is a splendid one! Looks rather stable indeed as well, and all hooks and gaps for the rigging are in there. :thumbup:

I'm having some trouble with adding the platform to the mainmast, since the mast is 2,75 studs in lenth and width. :pir_wacko:

A part I'm jealous on is the tiled interior! :pir-wub: That looks just so real in there!

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#53 Captain Becker

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:57 PM

Wait... can i find my jaw first? I dropped it somewhere on the floor and cannot find it now.... Oh wait, there it is.

I cant say anything even now when i found my jaw. I love the whole thing and the two decked looks Wayyy better than the one decked, and the last photo makes me want to kiss you a thousand and thousands of times. Incredible job mate :thumbup:  DO NOT STOP NOW! Get back to building her, AND HURRY UP :pir_laugh2:

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EDIT: Blackmoor, you did your lifes best choise :thumbup:
EDIT2: Are those tiny hooks inside of the box in the mast Z?

Edited by Captain Becker, 31 August 2010 - 10:00 PM.

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#54 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:30 PM

The last picture looks excellent! Please keep it that way :thumbup:
No, kidding, but the other pictures are really excellent. The tiled decks are very realistic and the mast is looking fine as well so far.
I would only change the fences a little bit by placing them on entirely on the sides instead of slightly in the middle.
But if you can find examples of other ships doing it this way, it's fine with me :pir-sweet:
I think blue and gold will look good on the parts you talked about, but maybe keeping it all black and red also has it's charmes.
And the tumblehome is looking perfect. Keep it up :thumbup:
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#55 captain crossbricks

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:46 PM

Wow! that looks great so far!!!! :pir-cry_happy: I cant wait to see when it's done!   :kahuka:

#56 ZCerberus

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:31 PM

Thanks all.  I like it much better than before.  I will try to add a few more sections and one up front so you can get the whole effect going.

View PostCaptain Blackmoor, on 31 August 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'm having some trouble with adding the platform to the mainmast, since the mast is 2,75 studs in lenth and width. :pir_wacko:
Without a doubt. :pir-wink:

Well we have the same construction, so my strategy should work with your masts.  Do you want some shots of the build to try it out, or is your construction holding up?

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 31 August 2010 - 10:30 PM, said:

I would only change the fences a little bit by placing them on entirely on the sides instead of slightly in the middle.
But if you can find examples of other ships doing it this way, it's fine with me :pir-sweet:

I took inspiration from some pictures of Le Superbe...  I really like the over all look of that ship.  I am going to do several things different from that ship, but the center section at least will be inspired from that ship!

Edited by ZCerberus, 31 August 2010 - 11:32 PM.

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#57 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:03 AM

View PostZCerberus, on 31 August 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

I took inspiration from some pictures of Le Superbe...  I really like the over all look of that ship.  I am going to do several things different from that ship, but the center section at least will be inspired from that ship!
Well, the superbe has these hammock nets on the sides as well. And it has normal fences in the middle:
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I hope you can see it, it's a rather small image.
But do it as you like. It will be a very fine ship for sure.
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#58 ZCerberus

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:42 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 01 September 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

Well, the superbe has these hammock nets on the sides as well. And it has normal fences in the middle:
I hope you can see it, it's a rather small image.

So they are!  I was planning on having netting on the side of the ship there as well, but I can see that it does look like a regular rail on the inside.  That is good news for me since I did not like the netting on the inside there and a railing will look much nicer!  Thanks Admiral C!

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#59 Fires-storm

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:53 PM

Well done, this ship has once again utterly made me lose my jaw! That tumble home technique is pure brilliance, and pushing the two ends together actually made a fairly epic ship as well! Good work mate, keep bricking! :thumbup:
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#60 Captain Becker

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:47 PM

View PostFires-storm, on 01 September 2010 - 02:53 PM, said:

and pushing the two ends together actually made a fairly epic ship as well!

I totally agree whit you, Please leave it as that, thats just perfect for me, tiny, fast, and still lots of cannons.. (I have saved that pic for my PC and i putted it on my screen its so cute looking)

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Edited by Captain Becker, 01 September 2010 - 10:44 PM.

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#61 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 10:27 PM

Wow, that is really a remarkable progress! Your ship is getting better every time you rebuild it and the use of Blackmoors hull technique works really great; I esspecially like the modular structure!
The colourscheme is well chosen as well; reaslistic for a Franco-Spanish ship of the 18th century!

I'm not quite sure how the mast design works, but I'm pretty confident you'll make it sufficiently stable.

Now I am really jelous; everybody is building on their huge ship project - yours is actually pretty much how I would like the Superbe to be - yet I do not have time to build myself :pir_bawling:

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#62 Nosaj

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 10:42 PM

Looking good Z... you are probably one of my favorite MOC-ers...

I personally am not a fam of putting the flat plate pieces on the deck, although it gives a nice look, I just prefer the classic LEGO look

#63 ZCerberus

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:36 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on 01 September 2010 - 10:27 PM, said:

Wow, that is really a remarkable progress! Your ship is getting better every time you rebuild it and the use of Blackmoors hull technique works really great; I esspecially like the modular structure!

I don't think we are using the same technique on the hulls... though they are similar.  I guess I would say it is more like a progression on the Phantom than anything else.  The ship- however, is not modular.  The old Phantom was, but this one is not.  The reason for all the technique beams is each section is only one (as opposed to two) studs smaller than the last.  I am hoping it will still give it a curved effect though.


View PostPerfectionist, on 01 September 2010 - 10:27 PM, said:

I'm not quite sure how the mast design works, but I'm pretty confident you'll make it sufficiently stable.

the masts are pretty darn stable so long as the base goes through at least two levels of ship.  They aren't going anywhere, and with the new platform I am using on top of the masts, everything is in tip top shape.  It will be even better when the rigging is on there.


View PostPerfectionist, on 01 September 2010 - 10:27 PM, said:

Now I am really jelous; everybody is building on their huge ship project - yours is actually pretty much how I would like the Superbe to be - yet I do not have time to build myself :pir_bawling:

I am pulling a lot of inspiration, at least for parts, from that ship.  It is an awesome design!

View PostNosaj, on 01 September 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

Looking good Z... you are probably one of my favorite MOC-ers...

I personally am not a fam of putting the flat plate pieces on the deck, although it gives a nice look, I just prefer the classic LEGO look

Thanks.  The tiled look is really quite awesome in my opinion, but it does make figures slide around a lot when they are on there.  I try to leave a few studs here and there so I can add figures and accessories to the various levels.

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#64 plokoon 4 life!

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:29 AM

great work Z! only, how do you make the masts?
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#65 ZCerberus

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 05:32 PM

View Postplokoon 4 life!, on 02 September 2010 - 07:29 AM, said:

great work Z! only, how do you make the masts?

I would call them "twisted SNOT" masts.  Phred originally used them as masts after he said he had spotted them in another project and thought he could adapt them over to a ship.

Both Blackmoor and Phred have used them on their ships as well.  Look for Phred's Constitution or Blacky's Le Fourageux.

Here is the convoluted answer to that question when Blacky asked about them...

"For the interior- you are going to need lots of these:

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and lots of these

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and

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You will need twice as many of the 1 x 1 plates and 1 x 2 plates as the modified 1 x 1 bricks.

Build the interior by doing this:

1) place two 1 x 1 plates on top of each other
2) attach the 1 x 1 plates to bottom of 1 x 1 modified brick (doesn't matter which one you use, you can mix and match if needed.)
3) attach 2 1 x 2 plates vertically to the modified brick's side sides. If you are using the modified brick with 4 side studs, the plates should be on OPPOSITE studs and not ADJACENT studs. The plates should hang down to be flush with the bottom of the bottom 1 x 1 plate (and the top of the 1 x 1 brick)

you have now created a "section".

4) repeat steps 1-3 and attach the second section to the top of the first section, rotating the second section 60 degrees.

5) repeat steps 1-3 and attach the third section to the top of the second section, rotating the third section 60 degrees.

continuing adding sections rotating each section 60 degrees until the mast is as tall as you would like.

Now simply attach single long plates (or tiles even!) vertically on each side from the top stud of a 1 x 2 plate on one section to the bottom stud of a 1 x 2 plate of a higher section to cover the interior. To make mine more stable, I used plates of varying lengths, 6, 8, 10 and 12 studs long etc, so that the verticle plates did not all terminate at the same section. If you do the same as I did, you may have to rotate a few sections an additional 60 degrees so everything lines up propely. I also used 1 x 1 plates and 1 x 3 plates for the vertical plates on two of the bottom three sections and two of the top three sections so everything on the top and bottom was covered."

The mast plaforms a bit tricky because the mast will be six sided and there is only a single stud on top to try to attach things to.  With the latest Phantom version here I am going with SNOT platforms to try to overcome that.

I know you have been working in LDD... not sure how easy these will be to make in there!

Edited by ZCerberus, 02 September 2010 - 05:33 PM.

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#66 Phred

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 05:41 PM

View PostZCerberus, on 02 September 2010 - 05:32 PM, said:

Here is the convoluted answer to that question when Blacky asked about them...
I couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbup:

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#67 ZCerberus

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:37 PM

View PostPhred, on 02 September 2010 - 05:41 PM, said:

I couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbup:

Well I figured out how to do it from your posts, so you must have done an okay job back then.  I really like the tiled look of them... considered going for the tiles with the Constitution?

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#68 Phred

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:48 PM

View PostZCerberus, on 02 September 2010 - 06:37 PM, said:

Well I figured out how to do it from your posts, so you must have done an okay job back then.  I really like the tiled look of them... considered going for the tiles with the Constitution?
Yes I have.  I just need 5 million more white tiles for the masts and landing craft.  :pir_wacko:
I like how you've staggered the tiles for strength. :thumbup:

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#69 ZCerberus

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:02 PM

View PostPhred, on 02 September 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

Yes I have.  I just need 5 million more white tiles for the masts and landing craft.  :pir_wacko:
I like how you've staggered the tiles for strength. :thumbup:

Yes... the staggering approach was a major improvement I think.  It is hard to get it right on the very bottom and the very top of the mast with the odd sizes, but it is really stable and doesn't twist at all.  The good news is after you have staggered starting in one spot you can use lots of the same size plates/tiles and still achieve a very stable build.  I used A LOT of 1 x 8 black tiles on that mast and I would imagine long tiles are even harder to find in white.

Edited by ZCerberus, 02 September 2010 - 07:03 PM.

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#70 ZCerberus

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 05:57 PM

Okay, so here is some progress but there are two caveats,

1) I took the pictures with my wife's camera and she e-mailed them to me, so I didn't resize them and you will need to click on the thumbs to see the pictures.  The pics are quite big, so you might not want to click on them all.

2) After looking at the progress, the one thing I think I want to change the most is moving the foremast back a little bit.  Not sure about that yet though.  I would like to get the galley and the capstan in between the "hole" and the foremast.  I am not sure I have enough space for both, but the foremast does appear to be a bit too far forward to me...  I will be building the bow out a little more with some snot techniques, so maybe the mast will be okay where it is.  Any thoughts?

Progress (about 1 week ago).  The bow shape turned out pretty nice I think.  It definatley has a more curved look than the older versions.

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A look at some of the blue and gold detailing and the rigging.

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More overview shots of the work on the bow.  You can see the gears in there that raise and lower the anchors from the capstan.  Like on older versions of the Phantom, the capstans do actually work. The capstan will raise all four ropes at the same time since I ship this size would have four anchors up front.  Because of the various gears and gear boxes I used to get the capstan to work, it pulls up the rope really slowly.  I hooked up a power functions motor just to wind the ropes in some.  I can not imagine how many laps around the deck my crew would need to do to lift the anchors, but it would be hundreds!  

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You can see the openings were I will be able to get access to parts of the lower deck.  I will be building the galley and the capstans and what not on platforms that can be placed in the holes so I do not need to finish those parts while trying to get the look of the rest of the ship right.

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Edited by ZCerberus, 04 October 2010 - 06:00 PM.

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#71 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:31 PM

View PostZCerberus, on 04 October 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

After looking at the progress, the one thing I think I want to change the most is moving the foremast back a little bit.  Not sure about that yet though.  I would like to get the galley and the capstan in between the "hole" and the foremast.  I am not sure I have enough space for both, but the foremast does appear to be a bit too far forward to me...  I will be building the bow out a little more with some snot techniques, so maybe the mast will be okay where it is.  Any thoughts?
By moving the foremast back, aren't you creating less space for the galley and capstan? I would keep the mast where it is.
On many ships, the galley was on the position where you like to make it, but on the deck below the main deck.
So on the main deck all you would see is a chimney. The capstan isn't placed there either, usually behind the main mast or beneath the main deck.
Hope that helps. Good luck! :pir-classic:
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#72 ZCerberus

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:54 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 04 October 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

By moving the foremast back, aren't you creating less space for the galley and capstan?

Yes, if I moved it back I would lose space, which is my hesitation...

I think I can squeeze them both in if I leave the mast where it is now.

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 04 October 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

So on the main deck all you would see is a chimney. The capstan isn't placed there either, usually behind the main mast or beneath the main deck.
Hope that helps. Good luck! :pir-classic:

Correct.  Just the ol' charlie noble would show on the main deck, but the galley would be below the main deck and there is a capstan on more than just one level of the ship, I suppose I could just slide an axel through that area and not have a capstan below the main deck, but I think I would want a capstan there as well...

As for the capstan, the one on the older versions of the Phantom are behind the main mast, but it is hard to get the technic axels all the way through to the front if I want it to work, plus, if you take a look at the pictures of Le Superbe, (which I am drawing some inspiration from) it is actually placed behind the foremast and before the hole.  

I am leaning towards leaving the mast where it is, just wanted some thoughts...

Edited by ZCerberus, 04 October 2010 - 06:55 PM.

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#73 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 07:19 PM

View PostZCerberus, on 04 October 2010 - 06:54 PM, said:

Correct.  Just the ol' charlie noble would show on the main deck, but the galley would be below the main deck and there is a capstan on more than just one level of the ship, I suppose I could just slide an axel through that area and not have a capstan below the main deck, but I think I would want a capstan there as well...

As for the capstan, the one on the older versions of the Phantom are behind the main mast, but it is hard to get the technic axels all the way through to the front if I want it to work, plus, if you take a look at the pictures of Le Superbe, (which I am drawing some inspiration from) it is actually placed behind the foremast and before the hole.
Ok, I see.. I just found a picture here and there's indeed a capstan on that place.
I think your ship has enough space for a capstan between the 'hole' and foremast, and the foremast doesn't need to be replaced IMO.
As for the capstan, you could make one on the place of the picture, and make something below the deck to make the anchor system work well.
Anyway, it looks great so far, I really like the blue parts on the ship. Keep it up :thumbup:

Edited by Admiral Croissant, 04 October 2010 - 07:21 PM.

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#74 Duke

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 07:51 PM

The technical capstan discussions are slightly over my head i'm afraid but nevertheless, this is very impressive.  The shape is great and as you say the curve of the bow looks good.  I can't say i'm totally sold on the dark blue, but perhaps that's because it only covers a small section at the moment.
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#75 ZCerberus

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 08:16 PM

View PostDuke, on 04 October 2010 - 07:51 PM, said:

I can't say i'm totally sold on the dark blue, but perhaps that's because it only covers a small section at the moment.

Yes.  This is a concern.  The red/black/blue color scheme was very popular with French ships in the age of Sail.  In the painting of the Acheron vs. the Surprise for example, the Acheron has the same color scheme.  I am hoping when I put some more dark blue on the stern and bow it will look more coherent.  Plus, it looks much less out of place in person.  I think the camerea makes the blue colors seem a bit more vibrant than they are in real life.

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