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WIP: Superbe, a French 80 gun Ship of the Line


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34 replies to this topic  – Started by Imperial Shipyards , Oct 24 2009 08:56 PM

#1 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 08:56 PM

I originally planned to submit this to PTVII, but progress has been slow, also because of the time I spent building on the Achille. During the build of the Achille however I experienced how important constructive feedback can be as it pushed that vessel far above what it was initially supposed to be (a cheap platform to experiment with techniques for the Superbe).

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The figurehead; Neptune, god of the 7 seas:
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The configuration will be as followed:
32 x 36pdr long guns
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32 x 24pdr long guns
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16 x 12pdr long guns
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I still hope to submit this vessel as a ship "in ordinary" to PTVII, but it has become relatively unlikely regarding the time that's left.
I have not made any significant progress here the last 2 weeks   :pir-cry_sad:

Feedback on the construction is more than welcome!  :pir-classic:

Perfectionist

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#2 General Armendariz

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 09:23 PM

Wow fast progress on this giant!
Its looking very good with lots of detail :pir-classic:

#3 Milan

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 11:13 PM

So far so good. Looking nice and detailed and well shaped. Cant wait for further progress!
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#4 BlueBard

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 12:18 AM

Very impressive WIP, you're really honouring your nickname sire!  :pir-sweet: I specially like your Neptune  :thumbup:

#5 Lt. Col. Thok

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 01:23 AM

Very nicely done!  I agree, that Neptune just gives me a look that screams "I may be old, but I'll still whup yer megablocks, boyo!"

Excellent progress; I can't wait to see the finished ship.  My one qualm is that your 36 pounders and 24 pounders are too similar; it took me a few minutes to see the difference (the added two by four plate above the wheels).  Perhaps we can see a tad more embellishment (so to say) on the 36 pounders (i.e. some gold leaf, etc?) Perhaps a bit far-fetched, but, IMHO, a good distinction to make.

Good work so far. :thumbup:
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#6 Captain Zuloo

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 03:05 AM

View PostLt. Col. Thok, on Oct 25 2009, 10:23 AM, said:

Excellent progress; I can't wait to see the finished ship.  My one qualm is that your 36 pounders and 24 pounders are too similar; it took me a few minutes to see the difference (the added two by four plate above the wheels).  Perhaps we can see a tad more embellishment (so to say) on the 36 pounders (i.e. some gold leaf, etc?) Perhaps a bit far-fetched, but, IMHO, a good distinction to make.
I second that. Even if you just replaced the red plate with a black one, at least it would clarify that they are different.
Anyway, great to see another minifig ship in the works, and I look foward to seeing her complete. Oh, this has been frontpaged too. :pir-wink:

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#7 Admiral M

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 03:17 AM

This is a really great ship! The proportions are perfect, and the shape is really nice. I would have reversed the color scheme, but I realise that not everyone has that many black pieces. How many guns will she have?

View PostLt. Col. Thok, on Oct 24 2009, 09:23 PM, said:

my one qualm is that your 36 pounders and 24 pounders are too similar; it took me a few minutes to see the difference (the added two by four plate above the wheels).  Perhaps we can see a tad more embellishment (so to say) on the 36 pounders.

Or, perhaps, enlarge or enlongate the base, or make it brick-built. That way, it will appear to be larger, and therefore more powerful.

Good luck on this project!
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#8 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 08:20 AM

Ok, let me reveal some more details about the beginnings of ths project: actual construction started on September 14, 2009;
however planning the design and ordering parts took place from mid - July onwards.

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How the bow is constructed using SNOT round bricks and hinges. The gundeck lenght back then was 112cm. It is 116cm now.
The maximum width is 29cm, giving a very fortunate length/width ratio of just about 4.
Both the tumblehome and the ship's curve are minimal as typical for french warships designs of the late 18th century.

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Note that this isn't the first ship I build at this scale:
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This vessel was constructed 2004-2005; construction took 7months and only used parts from the local Lego store and from my collection since I didn't know about BL back then.

It was taken apart on August 13, 2009 when I have started on the  "Superbe".
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View PostAdmiral M, on Oct 25 2009, 05:17 AM, said:

I would have reversed the color scheme, but I realise that not everyone has that many black pieces. How many guns will she have?
80 guns. It sais so in the title.  :pir-wink:
The historically inverted cholourscheme has been chosen as a result of prototype work where i compared all possible red/black cholourschemes. This one looked best and everyone i asked seconed that.

90% of the parts used have been ordered only for this ship, so it had nothing to do with a shortness of black parts. Too much black imo doesn't look all too good in Lego.

Which version do you guys like best?
36pdr:
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24pdr:
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Edited by Perfectionist, 25 October 2009 - 09:53 AM.

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#9 Admiral M

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 05:37 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 25 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

80 guns. It sais so in the title.  :pir-wink:

*Thwacks head*

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 25 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

The historically inverted cholourscheme has been chosen as a result of prototype work where i compared all possible red/black cholourschemes. This one looked best and everyone i asked seconed that.
I see. It does look good, and very striking.

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 25 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

90% of the parts used have been ordered only for this ship, so it had nothing to do with a shortness of black parts. Too much black imo doesn't look all too good in Lego.

I understand what you're saying, and I guess it's a matter of opinion.

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 25 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

Which version do you guys like best?

For the 36 pounder, definitely the enlongated one with a gunmetal barrel.

Do you think that you could show us a broadside picture? Thanks.
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#10 Lt. Col. Thok

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 05:41 PM

View PostAdmiral M, on Oct 25 2009, 01:37 PM, said:

For the 36 pounder, definitely the enlongated one with a gunmetal barrel.
Ditto.  Now she'll be perfect. :pir-wub: (at least when you finish her. :pir-tongue:)
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#11 General Armendariz

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 06:37 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 25 2009, 01:20 AM, said:

Which version do you guys like best?
36pdr:

24pdr:
The far right.

#12 Captain Green Hair

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 07:00 PM

Looks like an interesting technique to make a ship, i'm looking forward to see how it will work out in the end.
Why do you use red for it though, rown or black would look nicer i think and perhaps a different colour just under the waterline like white perhaps.
I'm afraid that in this scheme it might turn out a little boring.
I hate to burst your bubble, but minifig scale is about 1:39, a minifig would then be 1.7 meters long.
I like the extended carriage with the extra plate under it the best, i'll be making them like that for the Prince Willim as well.
And i am really digging the gunmetal barrels.

Just my 2 cents, keep it up mate!  :thumbup:
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#13 Rick

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 07:11 PM

Great build so far! I will definitely follow your build, looks like you're progressing really fast. For the biggest canon design, I'd definitely take a version with a long base. Are you going to make all your canons (the 36p and the 24p) the same color: either 'metal' or gray?

#14 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 07:12 AM

View PostCaptain Zuloo, on Oct 25 2009, 05:05 AM, said:

Oh, this has been frontpaged too. :pir-wink:
Arr, you misspelled the ships name on the frontpage! It's "Superbe", not "Supurbe"!  :pir-cry_sad:

View PostCaptain Green Hair, on Oct 25 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

Looks like an interesting technique to make a ship, i'm looking forward to see how it will work out in the end.
The hull is ultra-smooth; you can slide along it with your hand...  :pir-classic:

View PostCaptain Green Hair, on Oct 25 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

Why do you use red for it though, rown or black would look nicer i think and perhaps a different colour just under the waterline like white perhaps.
To be honest I must say that I  did have some doubts about the cholourscheme the past few weeks which is one reason why i made little progress.
Initially it looked good when I built the prototype (I'll soon post a picture of it when I have time) and as I said already to Admiral M, all guys that I showed the prototype prefered this scheme to a black hull.
But it's a hard decision to order bricks for 200 Euros or so and rebuild it all in black with red stripes. Dunno if making the curved slopes on the hull in white can look good there; they'll  be 3 studs high snoted which might turn out too much.
Following the comments of Admiral M and Captain Green Hair, I'm seriously thinking about changing the cholourscheme now.

View PostCaptain Green Hair, on Oct 25 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

I hate to burst your bubble, but minifig scale is about 1:39, a minifig would then be 1.7 meters long.
There's no bubble! One minifig is exactly 4 centimeters long; 4,2 centimeters with hair. According to my calculations it would be 176 cm high at 1:42; 1:52 is exactly 80% of that. If it were 1:42 I would have called it "true minifig scale", but 80% of that is still "minifig scale", isn't it?
Btw, how do you get your 170cm at 1:39? I get 163,8cm  :pir-tongue:

View PostRick, on Oct 25 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

Are you going to make all your canons (the 36p and the 24p) the same color: either 'metal' or gray?
All versions are possible: metal versions for the 24pdr and grey for the 36pdr, all metal, all grey or metal for the 36pdr and grey for the 24pdr. But I'll guess it'll be all metal.

Edited by Perfectionist, 26 October 2009 - 07:44 PM.

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#15 Errorist

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 08:55 AM

I really like how your technique is giving the ship it's form. It looks very smooth indeed.
Like Captain Greenhair I'm not sure about the colourscheme you used though.
Have you tried this as a prototype?
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It's an old version of my frigate. I think this is the best-looking colourscheme you can achieve with red and black but that is only my opinion of course.
Another thing is that I also think you're ship might be too small. I'm saying this because I'm building a frigate (also in 1:39) of which the hull itself is longer than your ship already. And I know my calculations are correct because I calculated them from original plans. At least I hope they are correct :pir-tongue:
Those are my 2 main concerns.

I'm looking forward to seeing a massive ship of the line added to the bleucoat minifig scale fleet. It was getting a little lonely out here :pir-tongue:
Keep up the good work Perfectionist :thumbup:

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Edited by Errorist, 26 October 2009 - 05:32 PM.

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#16 Captain Zuloo

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 09:24 AM

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 26 2009, 04:12 PM, said:

Arr, you misspelled the ships name on the frontpage! It's "Superbe", not "Supurbe"! :pir-cry_sad:
Eeeep, sorry about that! Still, 175 posts out of 176 ain't bad? :pir_laugh2:
Thanks for pointing it out, all fixed now. :pir-wink:

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#17 Captain Green Hair

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 01:20 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 26 2009, 08:12 AM, said:

Btw, how do you get your 170cm at 1:39? I get 163,8cm  :pir-tongue:

Back of my head, it's been a while since i made up the scale for the Prince Willim.  :pir_laugh2:

View PostErrorist, on Oct 26 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

It's an old version of my frigate. I think this is the best-looking colourscheme you can achieve with red and blue but that is only my opinion of course.


Don't you mean red an black?
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#18 Errorist

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 05:34 PM

View PostCaptain Green Hair, on Oct 26 2009, 02:20 PM, said:

Don't you mean red an black?
Stop confuzing our new members! :pir-tongue:

Woops :pir-tongue:
Fixed it! No more confusion for the new members :pir_laugh2:
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#19 Commodore Hornbricker

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 05:57 PM

Wow.  That is a huge ship and you seem to be flying through it.  I will definately be following your project.  I like the elongated gunmetal cannon as well.  Good luck on this large project.
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#20 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 07:41 PM

Ok, here's my prototype showing what the broadside of this creation will look like.

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Edited by Perfectionist, 18 May 2010 - 04:10 PM.

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#21 Big Cam

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 07:50 PM

Ack, so many great ship builds going on.

The frame for thsi is looking great.  ANother ship that doesn't use the traditional LEGO hull pieces.

I can't wait to see more progress pics.  The size, it's just huge!!

#22 Captain Green Hair

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 10:01 PM

Seeing your prototype the colour scheme looks pretty good!  :thumbup:
Maybe adding a 1 plate thick red strip in the top black to break it up a bit would add something.

Are you planning on using some other colour for ornaments and such?
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#23 Admiral M

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 11:03 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on Oct 26 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

Ok, here's my prototype showing what the broadside of this creation will look like.

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If you ask me, I think it's awesome.

Agreed. If I had seen all 3 decks, I wouldn't have complained. That looks amazing. Keep this project up, you're moving really fast.
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HMS Panther-16 guns
HMS Monarch-10 guns
HMS Colossus-40+ guns
HMS Conquest-32 guns

go to my Brickshelf

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#24 Teddy

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 12:07 AM

Interesting hull technique.  :pir-classic:
It will be interesting to follow this project.
Are you going to use flextubes to fill up the slits inbetween the bricks of the hull?

As to minifig scale discussion:

In scale 1:39 (or 1:38), an English foot is roughly equal to one stud, which is a practical building scale.
And the height of the minifigs is reasonably accurate for the average heigt of the time.
A minifig with standard headgear is around 5.5 studs high: 5.5x30.48 =  168cm.
Or around 4.45 cm: 4.45x39= 174 cm. So both come close to 1.70m, while alowing for a practical building scale.
4.45x52=231 cm which is quite large for a sailor back in the day.
I'm not sure were you are heading with the 80% rule?
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#25 ZCerberus

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 06:33 PM

I am not sure 1 stud = 1 foot is quite accurate- it seems to me that it should be a little more than a foot per stud- but like Teddy said 1 stud = 1 foot is a very practical scale.  Besides, I am not sure Lego ever cared about making things to scale anyway!

As for the ship- I like the curved bottom- it looks like the plan is to build only above the waterline (no complaints here) though I wonder if it is a bit too high out of the water.  Ships of the line were heavy the lowest deck was much closer to the water than other ships.  Nothing major- just something to consider.

I do like this color scheme and I think it works with the stripes as you have done it.  Greenhair might be onto something by suggesting adding something to break up the upper black portion to be more ornate.  Greeny is an excellent MOCer so I would really consider his input.

I have found it very difficul to build ships with nice curves, so I will be interested to see how yours turns out- looks promising so far.  

Good luck!!

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