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#1 Sinner

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:58 AM

Welcome to our new suggestion and complaint topic! Feel free to share any complaints or idea you have in regard to Eurobricks here. We do ask that you try to keep things as impersonal as possible (for example please don't post stuff like "Siegfried smells 'cos his mum told me" or "Why did you close my topic on testicles?") and don't endlessly debate points.

We do listen to our members, but that doesn't mean that we can do whatever is asked. However, if everyone asks for something politely then there's a decent chance that it will happen.





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#2 5150 Lego

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 02:48 AM

So something has been bothering me lately, and that is the inconsistency of the moderating on this site.
As of late, I've seen a few threads being closed, and it didn't have anything to do with them being against site rules and guidelines. It was cause they weren't interested in said discussion. (the most recent being the locking of the "What kind of cell phone do you have?" thread) Not cool.  There are plenty of topics that I'm sure many find "silly", or doesn't interest us, but were not forced to open said topics.

This is not meant to start any trouble, but i think we should be able to voice our thoughts if we see a problem.
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#3 Svelte

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:09 AM

Moderation of the Community Forum is a responsibility of the Fellows, who have been asked by the Staff to keep an eye on the Community forum due to a recent glut of redundant or inappropriate threads. Examples of these would be the multiple car threads or the 'I need love based help' plea.

In most cases I think you will find that discussions on topics which have already been raised previously (Pepsi vs Coke, or discussion of dogs) have been merged into the original topic or redirected to the appropriate place.

I don't think any of the Staff or Fellows have an issue with 'silliness' - have you met these people? *huh* They're sillier than anyone else! - but it is within their rights to close topics which they don't feel encourage fruitful discussion. Being asked to provide pictures of cellphones without any other context, explanation, or information probably falls in this category.

Personally I think the the recent 'I Am The Walrus - Or is that Sigfried' thread is an example of a bad topic - the poster hasn't said anything apart from describe the song and say 'Discuss the song here'. If the original poster doesn't have anything new or original to say themselves, why post? However as you can see this thread remains (as yet) unlocked in case something of interest materialises.

#4 SWMAN

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:11 AM

While I agree that topics should be given a chance to pan out before they are closed, I think that Moderators deserve full discretion. If they feel a topic should be closed, I am not going to question their judgement. They have achieved their position for a reason, and they deserve to be able to close which topics they feel they should.
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#5 Shadows

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 04:36 AM

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 10 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

So something has been bothering me lately, and that is the inconsistency of the moderating on this site.
As of late, I've seen a few threads being closed, and it didn't have anything to do with them being against site rules and guidelines.
From the guidelines:
Eurobricks is a LEGO fan site, thus we want most topics here to be LEGO related. If you find you are posting mostly non-LEGO topics then maybe you have picked the wrong site.

How many "this is my <whatever>" or "I have this many <whatevers>" or "I like <whatever>" threads is too many? Is that really what people are coming here for? That's the kind of discussion that primarily school-age children have, sitting around with a few friends. The conversation lasts 10 minutes before getting old. It lacks depth, it's a list thread and nothing more. Why do we want 100 of those threads here?

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 10 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

It was cause they weren't interested in said discussion. (the most recent being the locking of the "What kind of cell phone do you have?" thread) Not cool.
The conversation had no lasting value at all. Threads like the one you cite are often used to simply boost post count without adding any value to the community. As I say, who cares what phone you have? Does it really reflect on you as an individual? Do we learn something about you from it, or does it just say, "hey, they were running a special" or "wow, look at me, I blew some cash on a phone"? Conversely, the music thread could be considered a bit spammy, but it does offer a deeper insight into the member and what they like, so it has been around for a long time.

Do you understand the difference there?

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 10 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

There are plenty of topics that I'm sure many find "silly", or doesn't interest us, but were not forced to open said topics.
You aren't forced to because you're not on staff. We need to look at everything to determine if it fits within the guidelines for the site. Few of us are interested in Bionicle, for example, but if we don't look in the threads, we don't know when people have lost their minds and gone on a spamfest.

As for silly, we love silly. We encourage silly, but in that case, silly was just a polite way to say pointless.

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 10 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

This is not meant to start any trouble, but i think we should be able to voice our thoughts if we see a problem.
Absolutely. Just as we will take appropriate action when we see a problem. As long as this doesn't turn into an attack thread, I don't see any reason to close it, we're an open community and sometimes people are going to disagree with us, and there's no reason they can't express that.

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#6 Erdbeereis

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 04:55 AM

Just to add onto what Shadows said, I recently closed a thread where someone needed help with their love life. I don't know about you, but in my opinion that is a very silly thing to post on a primarily LEGO based site, even if it's in community.

I think some threads are fun, for example the "what did you buy today" thread, and the "What's your favorite food" thread are 2 that I always enjoy reading. It's just a matter of finding the right balance of good discussion and waste of space. :classic:

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#7 5150 Lego

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:15 AM

View Postsvelte_corps, on Jun 11 2009, 03:09 AM, said:

Moderation of the Community Forum is a responsibility of the Fellows, who have been asked by the Staff to keep an eye on the Community forum due to a recent glut of redundant or inappropriate threads. Examples of these would be the multiple car threads or the 'I need love based help' plea.

While i understand multiple of the same threads being merged, what is wrong with the love help one?  I ask cause this is supposed to be an 18 and up site, so why can't threads like this be allowed as long as its kept civil and non- offensive?

View Postsvelte_corps, on Jun 11 2009, 03:09 AM, said:

In most cases I think you will find that discussions on topics which have already been raised previously (Pepsi vs Coke, or discussion of dogs) have been merged into the original topic or redirected to the appropriate place.

Like i said, i completely understand that. But deleting a topic because one thinks is "silly" is well.... Silly.



View PostImperialShadows, on Jun 11 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

From the guidelines:
Eurobricks is a LEGO fan site, thus we want most topics here to be LEGO related. If you find you are posting mostly non-LEGO topics then maybe you have picked the wrong site.

How many "this is my <whatever>" or "I have this many <whatevers>" or "I like <whatever>" threads is too many? Is that really what people are coming here for? That's the kind of discussion that primarily school-age children have, sitting around with a few friends. The conversation lasts 10 minutes before getting old. It lacks depth, it's a list thread and nothing more. Why do we want 100 of those threads here?

If that's your line of thinking, then why even have the community/multimedia forum? Yes, this is a Lego web site, but that doesn't  mean that we can't, or shouldn't be able to interact with others about other topics of interest.  I love being able to look at reviews of upcoming sets, then scroll down and chat about the last F1 race, or Transformers.

View PostImperialShadows, on Jun 11 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

The conversation had no lasting value at all. Threads like the one you cite are often used to simply boost post count without adding any value to the community. As I say, who cares what phone you have? Does it really reflect on you as an individual? Do we learn something about you from it, or does it just say, "hey, they were running a special" or "wow, look at me, I blew some cash on a phone"? Conversely, the music thread could be considered a bit spammy, but it does offer a deeper insight into the member and what they like, so it has been around for a long time.

Do you understand the difference there?

Um.... No. I don't.  Sorry, but just cause you don't see the any depth in a said conversation doesn't mean that it couldn't turn into one. You don't care what kind of cell phone someone has, then just move on. I'm no cell phone junkie by any means, but i do enjoy learning about electronics, and yes, it can tell you something about someone. personally, i find it offensive to think just cause someone has a fancy cell phone you think all they did was "blow cash" :hmpf:

View PostImperialShadows, on Jun 11 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

As for silly, we love silly. We encourage silly, but in that case, silly was just a polite way to say pointless.

Again, if that's your line of thinking, then you might as well get ride of the community forum altogether. Cause by your definition, every thread in there is pointless.  Do you understand the difference there?



View PostImperialShadows, on Jun 11 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

Absolutely. Just as we will take appropriate action when we see a problem. As long as this doesn't turn into an attack thread, I don't see any reason to close it, we're an open community and sometimes people are going to disagree with us, and there's no reason they can't express that.

I appreciate this. Like i said, this is in no way meant to be a personal, or general attack on any moderators. I used to moderate on an Automotive web forum years ago so i know how difficult it can be.

View PostErdbeereis, on Jun 11 2009, 04:55 AM, said:

Just to add onto what Shadows said, I recently closed a thread where someone needed help with their love life. I don't know about you, but in my opinion that is a very silly thing to post on a primarily LEGO based site, even if it's in community.

I think some threads are fun, for example the "what did you buy today" thread, and the "What's your favorite food" thread are 2 that I always enjoy reading. It's just a matter of finding the right balance of good discussion and waste of space. :classic:

And how is it any more silly to ask about girl advice than it is about asking whats your favorite food? By your own admittance, you say those are threads YOU enjoy. Something like this pops up and its locked, but we have multiple star wars or Indie video game threads. Makes no sense.
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#8 Eilif

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:18 AM

I see alot of the thread closings as necessary to keep an adult feeling about the site. Such threads are not the sole provenance of teens, but the feeling that everything about one's life is important and worthy of discussion everywhere is a hallmark of teen-dom.  Eurobricks has a loose interpretation of AFOL, and there's alot of good about that stance, but I am personally pleased every time I see an extra-frivolous non-LEGO thread closed.

Non-LEGO threads should be seen as the exception to an otherwise LEGO-based site, not a class of thread deserving of protection.

Edited by Eilif, 11 June 2009 - 05:22 AM.

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#9 Izzy

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:26 AM

View PostEilif, on Jun 11 2009, 03:18 PM, said:

*snip* but I am personally pleased every time I see an extra-frivolous non-LEGO thread closed.

Hear Hear! ... I'm tired of people second guessing the Staff and Mods in here! It is SO disrespectful.

There is no power without control, the Mods are here to control the site and keep it from filling up with annoying spammers and primary school children with their petty day to day drivel that I for one don't want to know about.

There would not be 60 odd pages of random topics in the Community Forum is the Mods didn't allow silly!  

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#10 Shadows

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:37 AM

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

While i understand multiple of the same threads being merged, what is wrong with the love help one?  I ask cause this is supposed to be an 18 and up site, so why can't threads like this be allowed as long as its kept civil and non- offensive?
Did you read that thread? He was a 10th grader pining for his 9th grade sweetheart. Further, people who are mature don't usually ask those things on a LEGO forum for the whole world to reply to. There are better places for that.

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

Like i said, i completely understand that. But deleting a topic because one thinks is "silly" is well.... Silly.
I'll repeat, it wasn't silly, it was pointless, and yes, someone has to make that determination. It's a tough call, a fine line, but it's one that has to be made or we'll turn into a wasteland of off-topic nonsense.

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

If that's your line of thinking, then why even have the community/multimedia forum? Yes, this is a Lego web site, but that doesn't  mean that we can't, or shouldn't be able to interact with others about other topics of interest.  I love being able to look at reviews of upcoming sets, then scroll down and chat about the last F1 race, or Transformers.
Community is about meeting each other, and that means more than "hey look at my shirt/phone/hair", it's about more than the superficial, though we do have a place for people to share that kind of thing, within reason. As I said, it's a fine line, but just using your examples, I can show how my thought process works. A sports topic is fine, until it turns into a war. If that happens, it's over. Basically, it's not a list thread (if it turns into one, that's a problem). It isn't going to attract a lot of 3 word single line posts, hopefully people will actually discuss, not list. Saying that you like something is fine. Saying why you like something is adding value. The same with Transformers or Discworld or anything that will inspire discussion, not just "kewl!" or "mine's a c1432lt12 with the lcd screen".

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

Um.... No. I don't.  Sorry, but just cause you don't see the any depth in a said conversation doesn't mean that it couldn't turn into one. You don't care what kind of cell phone someone has, then just move on. I'm no cell phone junkie by any means, but i do enjoy learning about electronics, and yes, it can tell you something about someone. personally, i find it offensive to think just cause someone has a fancy cell phone you think all they did was "blow cash" :hmpf:
Any topic could turn into something with depth, does that mean they should all be allowed? For how long? What is the appropriate developing time for depth? Cellphones turn to iPods and off it goes. You can be offended all you want, but for the most part, people who post pictures of a simple tool that is supposed to be used for a daily, boring purpose, are trying to brag. "Look at me" threads, when unrelated to LEGO, are high on my list of nuisances. Seriously, if someone is young and thinks it's a big deal to have something, they want to flash it. I say flash it somewhere else. If someone older is still doing that, I think it's time to grow up a little.

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

Again, if that's your line of thinking, then you might as well get ride of the community forum altogether. Cause by your definition, every thread in there is pointless.
No, you just seem to lack the ability to seperate discussion from simple listing of things. Scroll back and you'll see where I've explained the purpose of Community, and it should be clearer to you.

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

I appreciate this. Like i said, this is in no way meant to be a personal, or general attack on any moderators. I used to moderate on an Automotive web forum years ago so i know how difficult it can be.
It's not that difficult most of the time. The vast majority of members 'get it', they see what works well and what doesn't, and they tend to have the same view. The number of complaints we get over closures like this is very low. The number we get over spammy topics like that is much higher. MUCH.

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

And how is it any more silly to ask about girl advice than it is about asking whats your favorite food?
This isn't an underage dating site, nor is it the place to get that kind of advice. The vast majority of such posts are made by underage members, just as that one was. We could get rid of them by simply cracking down on the age limit, but we try to understanding and include people instead while asking for maturity. Those topics are rarely any more mature than the bragging threads.

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#11 Hewman

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:40 AM

View PostCutlass_Iz, on Jun 11 2009, 02:56 PM, said:

Hear Hear! ... I'm tired of people second guessing the Staff and Mods in here! It is SO disrespectful.

There is no power without control, the Mods are here to control the site and keep it from filling up with annoying spammers and primary school children with their petty day to day drivel that I for one don't want to know about.

There would not be 60 odd pages of random topics in the Community Forum is the Mods didn't allow silly!  

They have the power! Leave it in their capable hands I say!

Exactly. I for one was glad to find out that the irrelevant mobile phone thread was cancelled. I can't recall a single example of the mods closing a relevant Lego related thread down, they're doing an excellent job for free, and I for one appreciate it.

Edited by hewman, 11 June 2009 - 05:40 AM.


#12 Clone OPatra

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:48 AM

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 01:15 AM, said:

And how is it any more silly to ask about girl advice than it is about asking whats your favorite food? By your own admittance, you say those are threads YOU enjoy. Something like this pops up and its locked, but we have multiple star wars or Indie video game threads. Makes no sense.

Oh, I think asking for girl advice on this type of site is completely out of place, and vastly different from the mundane type of "silly" brought up in favorite this and that threads.  "What's your favorite *insert object here*" threads let members know a little something about one another, and have pleasant chats about whatever the topic is.  That especially applies to things like food, music, and what you bought today, because those show something about personality and deep likes and dislikes.  What cell phone you have, however, doesn't really show anything about a person except "Oh, I like gadgets that flip a million different ways and look skinny or bulky…"  That doesn't add to community value.  And even if someone thinks it did, if a mod closed for whatever reason, then a mod closed it.

The mods do an excellent job here on Eurobricks, and are always quick to catch something that doesn't belong.  You don't have to always agree with them, but that's the way it is between people of differing degrees of power, somebody will always disagree.

I've seen you write before: if you don't have something constructive to say, then move on.  Well, since it doesn't really impact you too terribly that the mods close a few frivolous threads once and a while, then you should move on.  Does it make a difference that you now can't find out what cellphone a handful more members have, or your ability to give dating advice to a tenth grader is compromised? (I know there are more examples than that, but the same questions can be asked of each.)  If it doesn't make too big of a difference, and I hope it doesn't, then let the mods do their job in the excellent way they have always done, and leave them be.
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#13 Hinckley

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:48 AM

View PostErdbeereis, on Jun 10 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

I recently closed a thread where someone needed help with their love life.
I fully supported that.

View PostEilif, on Jun 10 2009, 11:18 PM, said:

I see alot of the thread closings as necessary to keep an adult feeling about the site.
Amen, brother-preach it.

That does end up being subjective, but I trust our staff to be fair and consistent in doing that. Good guys with good intentions. :wink:

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#14 5150 Lego

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:48 AM

View PostEilif, on Jun 11 2009, 05:18 AM, said:

I see alot of the thread closings as necessary to keep an adult feeling about the site. Such threads are not the sole provenance of teens, but the feeling that everything about one's life is important and worthy of discussion everywhere is a hallmark of teen-dom.  Eurobricks has a loose interpretation of AFOL, and there's alot of good about that stance, but I am personally pleased every time I see an extra-frivolous non-LEGO thread closed.

Non-LEGO threads should be seen as the exception to an otherwise LEGO-based site, not a class of thread deserving of protection.

I completely agree that we need to keep a more "mature" level on this site. It is supposed to be an 18 and up site.
Having said that, i think some have misinturpreted the meaning of this thread. I'm talking about consistency. it does no good (and doesn't look good) when we have a mod close a thread cause he/she doesn't feel its interesting, but yet there are several others that are similar to it on the top of the page. The only reason i brought up that "love help" thread was i thought it that since this is supposed to be an 18 and up site, that some could offer in site at a mature level. If it went off track, than fine. Close it. I guess i just found it different than the multiple star wars video game threads that seem to pop up every other day.


View PostCutlass_Iz, on Jun 11 2009, 05:26 AM, said:

Hear Hear! ... I'm tired of people second guessing the Staff and Mods in here! It is SO disrespectful.

They have the power! Leave it in their capable hands I say!

  Calm down. There's nothing disrespectful about bringing up a concern to the admin. of this site. Give me a break. :hmpf:  That's what this sub forum is for. That's how you grow. You take the time to listen to your members concerns. I'm not saying, nor do i expect any kind of "change in site policy', but like i said, it had been bothering me so rather than let it build up and possibly snapping at someone or leading a thread off topic, i choose to address my concerns.
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#15 5150 Lego

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 06:18 AM

View PostImperialShadows, on Jun 11 2009, 05:37 AM, said:

Community is about meeting each other, and that means more than "hey look at my shirt/phone/hair", it's about more than the superficial, though we do have a place for people to share that kind of thing, within reason. As I said, it's a fine line, but just using your examples, I can show how my thought process works. A sports topic is fine, until it turns into a war. If that happens, it's over. Basically, it's not a list thread (if it turns into one, that's a problem). It isn't going to attract a lot of 3 word single line posts, hopefully people will actually discuss, not list. Saying that you like something is fine. Saying why you like something is adding value. The same with Transformers or Discworld or anything that will inspire discussion, not just "kewl!" or "mine's a c1432lt12 with the lcd screen".


Any topic could turn into something with depth, does that mean they should all be allowed? For how long? What is the appropriate developing time for depth? Cellphones turn to iPods and off it goes. You can be offended all you want, but for the most part, people who post pictures of a simple tool that is supposed to be used for a daily, boring purpose, are trying to brag. "Look at me" threads, when unrelated to LEGO, are high on my list of nuisances. Seriously, if someone is young and thinks it's a big deal to have something, they want to flash it. I say flash it somewhere else. If someone older is still doing that, I think it's time to grow up a little.
I'll let the love topic go as i know thats not going to go anywhere.

But This pretty much sums up what I'm talking about. The lack of consistency. See her in lies the problem...

You see cell phones as a "simple tool", but for many, its their life line.  I don't mean this as a means for the average 8 grade teeny bopper to text 300 times a day to their friends. Some use them for business, other use them just for phone calls. Its obvious that the only reason you closed it was it served no personal interest to you. Did it have a "Look at me factor"? Sure. But who cares if it did? Buy your own admittance, it could have gone into depth. I could see if it was 3 threads long of just pics of cell phones, but it was what? Like 4 post before it was closed? I don't see any logic in that. Just cause someone has a fancier phone/car/computer or whatever electronic device they want to share doesn't mean there showing off. You can easily get the same in depth discussion from a food, car, or video game topic from a cell phone.
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#16 brickzone

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 10:41 AM

I'd like to thank the mods as I think they generally do a good job of achieving a balance on this site - it's not "uptight" but doesn't descend into farce either. I am personally all in favour of strict moderation, as it helps keep discussions on track and useful. I think in fairness there is plenty of allowance on Eurobricks for people not sticking absolutely strictly to topic, and also joking and such.

Any moderation is surely going to seem inconsistent as even if there is a defined "cut-off" for behaviour, you will inevitably have things straddling that and that are up to the judgment of the individual moderator involved.

#17 I Scream Clone

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 11:17 AM

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

But This pretty much sums up what I'm talking about. The lack of consistency. See her in lies the problem...

I see from what the volunteer Moderators have said this is not meant to be an argument topic. I can also see where you are coming from, but as svelte_corps mentioned the Community Thread is a loose forum for day to day stuff. It also happens to be moderated by anywhere up to 40 staff/Fellows so you can expect a level of inconsistency as everyone has a different opinion about what is and isn't spam/waste topics that merely raise ones post count. We all drop in to check out the community thread when time permits and help to clean it up so that more fruitful topics that help members learn more about each other(interview threads for example, where silliness and education exist together) and stay in focus on the first page for future discussion and aren't forced away by spam topics clogging the forum up.

Can you imagine how annoying it is to see something you put a lot of effort into photographing and plotting out dissappear because 12 topics about a run over cat have been listed above it? We value community content over spam any day. Whilst the odd topic may be closed because of a differing attitude, I think you will agree that the Mods/Staff are doing a great job and maybe you could mention that in one of your posts as well 5150. After all we wouldn't have this great place that you and I enjoy coming to.

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#18 Eilif

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 01:48 PM

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 10 2009, 11:48 PM, said:

I'm talking about consistency. it does no good (and doesn't look good) when we have a mod close a thread cause he/she doesn't feel its interesting, but yet there are several others that are similar to it on the top of the page.

I think the inconsistency charge is one that can't help but stick.  Having multiple moderators limiting off-topic talk on a forum marked "community" is always going to create a gray area.  

Still, the solution is not to open the floodgates for more off topic threads.  The solution is for folks to recognize that this is a LEGO site, and to understand that if you post off-topic, you do so at the pleasure of the Mods, and not to be surprised if it get's closed.  It's all about realigning expectation and understanding about Eurobricks and it's purpose.
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#19 5150 Lego

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 04:06 PM

View PostI Scream Clone, on Jun 11 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

It also happens to be moderated by anywhere up to 40 staff/Fellows so you can expect a level of inconsistency as everyone has a different opinion about what is and isn't spam/waste topics that merely raise ones post count.

There's the problem right there.

View PostI Scream Clone, on Jun 11 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

Can you imagine how annoying it is to see something you put a lot of effort into photographing and plotting out dissappear because 12 topics about a run over cat have been listed above it? We value community content over spam any day. Whilst the odd topic may be closed because of a differing attitude, I think you will agree that the Mods/Staff are doing a great job and maybe you could mention that in one of your posts as well 5150. After all we wouldn't have this great place that you and I enjoy coming to.

Um... No. Sorry, but i DON'T  feel most here doing a good job. If i felt that way i wouldn't have made this topic. I have voiced my appreciation to those that have gone out of there way to really help others in the past. But in this case, sorry. But i don't feel this form of moderating is correct. I think its incredibly poor, and I'm not one to jump on the bandwagon just to score some brownie points.
Again, i understand that not every topic is appropriate. That goes without saying. But again, when we have multiple star wars threads about the clone wars series, a thread about a beetles song, but then a mod closes a thread with the attitude of "who cares, it doesn't interest me!" that's the level of inconsistency that needs to be addressed.

View PostEilif, on Jun 11 2009, 01:48 PM, said:

I think the inconsistency charge is one that can't help but stick.  Having multiple moderators limiting off-topic talk on a forum marked "community" is always going to create a gray area.  

Still, the solution is not to open the floodgates for more off topic threads.  The solution is for folks to recognize that this is a LEGO site, and to understand that if you post off-topic, you do so at the pleasure of the Mods, and not to be surprised if it gets closed.  It's all about realigning expectation and understanding about Eurobricks and it's purpose.

And this is exactly what kills me! You admit there is a problem but your attitude is "Oh well". Its clear that there are to many mods to moderate on sub section that clearly have different views. This is a recipe awaiting disaster.
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#20 Eilif

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 04:33 PM

View Post5150 Lego, on Jun 11 2009, 10:06 AM, said:

And this is exactly what kills me! You admit there is a problem but your attitude is "Oh well". Its clear that there are to many mods to moderate on sub section that clearly have different views. This is a recipe awaiting disaster.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying that there will always be inconsistency. I'm NOT saying it's a problem, just that it's inevitable.  And my attitude is not "oh well", rather as I said, my solution is for members to change their mindset to reflect and accept the facts that:

1) Eurobricks is a LEGO forum.

2) Off-topics are a privilege, not a right. In fact EB is not a democracy of the members, and all posting rights are subject to the Staff approval.

3) In order to maintain a more Adult Forum, Mods will lock threads At-Will.

The sooner members stop expecting EB to be a completely free communication outlet or a tightly regimented place where every rule is clearly stated, the sooner we will be content to let EB be what it is. A moderately regulated place for LEGO fans to discuss LEGO.
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#21 simonjedi

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:02 PM

Moderating is fine, its not like they read 1984 and thought "This book is a great basis to moderate a plastic brick website."

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#22 WhiteFang

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:09 PM

Hello 5150 Lego,

I truly appreciate your honest feedback with regards to your disturbing concerns. Indeed, this is a concern worth noting about, especially if it’s really bothering you so much. In this case, your main agenda which you will prefer the Eurobricks Staff to address is, in terms of “Moderation Inconsistency”.  

All this while, The Eurobricks Staff primarily stood by the Site Guidelines that set the direction in this forum. Quoted a portion from the Site Guidelines, “Eurobricks is a LEGO fan site, thus we want most topics here to be LEGO related. If you find you are posting mostly non-LEGO topics then maybe you have picked the wrong site.” This statement has clearly defined itself, that such practice shouldn’t be encouraged if you are here for discussion that is clearly not related to LEGO, and wanted to discuss only non-related topics residing in the Community, Culture and Multimedia forum. Therefore, this is clearly not our intended direction.

For the majority of the forums, we will have one of our Eurobricks Staff, taking charge of that section, which includes moderation that deemed to improve discussion circulation, cleaning up off topics discussion that clogs up the main content, getting rid of spam, maintaining law and order in that designated forum. At the same time, Global Moderators are always out there, making sure that such undesired actions can be promoted in any forms, regardless of any forums existed in Eurobricks. Eurobricks Staff, will never lock a topic without giving an appropriate reason to support its decision. Furthermore, this decision was not made lightly with an individual demonstrating its moderation power. In fact, the Eurobricks Staff is empowered with such powers to be responsible to prevent undesired outcomes that may arise from the locked content, together with the rest of the Staff sharing the similar moderation philosophy that is truly Eurobricks. In here, rules and regulations are enforced and regulated, by the management.

With this in mind, it doesn’t matter what “other forums” have their policy or rules is totally not of our concern, and shouldn’t be even bothered by such unnecessary issues. Our stakeholders, is our community, and our actions will influence the course of direction in Eurobricks. In here, off topics content is allowed, but definitely not an excessive manner.

Eurobricks is not a generalist forum, but offering such forums in here is an option for some of our long time members to initiate other non-LEGO related topics to discuss such as movies, cars, events, food and etc. What is enough and not enough? We don’t live by using algorithms to measure how much off topic we need in here, and such. Instead, we use our judgment, and those judgments, for example such as our Eurobricks Fellows, they are given the privilege to moderate what is appropriate or not. Of course, such actions are discussed with the Eurobricks Staff, and we support their decision as long the reason can be justified based on a case by case scenario.

Let’s take an analogy, “What if Eurobricks “Today Active Topics”, has more than a page worth of topics coming out, mainly from the Community, Culture and Media forums, for example.” Then, we will have another group of members leaving their feedbacks to us in here, by stating their displeasure by saying this, “Eurobricks is a LEGO discussion forum platform where all of us are able to discuss our favourite hobby and themes together. Why are there so many non related LEGO discussions coming up.”

As Eurobricks is one dynamic community that comprised members sharing this special interest all over the world, we will definitely have different conflicts of interest involving from different perception coming from different backgrounds at different stages in this cycle. It’s never a perfect world out there, where things are always in order. The key to resolving this is to maintain a balance, minimise the problems and maximise its potential.

I am addressing your concern, which the above views, may not entirely covered the entire perspective of this issue. This is my explanation to you. If you have a better solution to enable a perfect forum management philosophy that are able to completely satisfy our 9 levels of stakeholders. I will be glad to submit your recommendations for reference to discuss with the rest of the Eurobricks Staff.

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#23 CP5670

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:34 PM

I can sort of see where 5150 Lego is coming from. That phone thread did seem pointless at first glance, but the truth is that there are two or three very similar and equally pointless threads on the same page. :tongue: That being said, I don't really come to EB for general, off-topic discussion, as there are simply better forums out there for that.

Also, I get the feeling that those who are claiming that moderator actions should be unquestionable by default have never seen a forum outside the Lego community. I can give many examples of what happens over time if there is no possibility of dissent at all.

This might be something to consider for the administration: if you want to "downgrade" the status of the posts there (since they are not Lego related) and discourage spamming, one alternative is to loosen the rules but to have the posts not count towards a user's total. This is common practice on many other forums, and was done a few years ago on one I moderate.

View PostEilif, on Jun 11 2009, 11:33 AM, said:

2) Off-topics are a privilege, not a right. In fact EB is not a democracy of the members, and all posting rights are subject to the Staff approval.

3) In order to maintain a more Adult Forum, Mods will lock threads At-Will.

This applies to any topics on any forum out there. Falling back on such an attitude would make for a functioning forum, but not necessarily a good forum. And to be fair, EB is not like that at all. ImperialShadows has taken the time to explain his actions here in great detail, even if people might not agree with his reasoning, which is more than you can expect at a lot of other places.

#24 5150 Lego

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 12:13 AM

View PostWhiteFang, on Jun 11 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

All this while, The Eurobricks Staff primarily stood by the Site Guidelines that set the direction in this forum. Quoted a portion from the Site Guidelines, “Eurobricks is a LEGO fan site, thus we want most topics here to be LEGO related. If you find you are posting mostly non-LEGO topics then maybe you have picked the wrong site.” This statement has clearly defined itself, that such practice shouldn’t be encouraged if you are here for discussion that is clearly not related to LEGO, and wanted to discuss only non-related topics residing in the Community, Culture and Multimedia forum. Therefore, this is clearly not our intended direction.


View PostCP5670, on Jun 11 2009, 05:34 PM, said:

I can sort of see where 5150 Lego is coming from. That phone thread did seem pointless at first glance, but the truth is that there are two or three very similar and equally pointless threads on the same page. :tongue: That being said, I don't really come to EB for general, off-topic discussion, as there are simply better forums out there for that.

Looking back at my previous posts, i get the feeling that others feel that i am questioning the actions of the mods in the community forum cause that's were some feel i spend most of my time and that's why i come to EB. Well to clarify, that is not the case. I like most, come to this forum to find out about the latest in Lego news, MOCS and reviews of sets I'm interested in. I do, like most, consider the community section a "Bonus" as you will. But its also a little more than that. At some point, news will become stale, as will reviews and any other general LEGO related topics. That's were it is nice to be able to chit chat with other members about non Lego related topics. Again, what some might consider pointless, can give hours of discussion for others, and let them learn something new about any said individual. In this case, i was merely using the Cell Phone thread as an example since it was the most recent. There have been others in the past as well, but i won't get into that as i think I've made my concern present.

I guess what I'm trying to get at in short is to just give similar threads in the future a chance to grow. If its been talked about in the past with little to no depth, or is blatantly obvious that its inappropriate, then by all means close it. But i think its only fair to give it more of a chance than 4 or 5 posts.



View PostCP5670, on Jun 11 2009, 05:34 PM, said:

Also, I get the feeling that those who are claiming that moderator actions should be unquestionable by default have never seen a forum outside the Lego community. I can give many examples of what happens over time if there is no possibility of dissent at all.

Not only that, but i feel you should be able to voice your opinions and concerns without being labeled as being disrespectful or rude.

View PostCP5670, on Jun 11 2009, 05:34 PM, said:

This might be something to consider for the administration: if you want to "downgrade" the status of the posts there (since they are not Lego related) and discourage spamming, one alternative is to loosen the rules but to have the posts not count towards a user's total. This is common practice on many other forums, and was done a few years ago on one I moderate.

While i know whitefang has said that policies on other forums are irrelevant to EB, this is a good idea. Its a proven method of keeping out a lot of would be spamers and doesn't encourage a lot of younger members to start inappropriate or "silly" topics.


View PostCP5670, on Jun 11 2009, 05:34 PM, said:

This applies to any topics on any forum out there. Falling back on such an attitude would make for a functioning forum, but not necessarily a good forum. And to be fair, EB is not like that at all. ImperialShadows has taken the time to explain his actions here in great detail, even if people might not agree with his reasoning, which is more than you can expect at a lot of other places.

Agreed. Although personally, while i appreciate the response and explanation, i don't feel just giving an explanation makes up for it being a lack luster one. Just my opinion.
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#25 Eilif

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 12:36 AM

I have to say that "downgrading" the post count value of off-topic posts is a great idea.  It won't keep all the inappropriate, misplaced, and ill-thought topics out, but it could be a nice tool to help set the tone of the forum.
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