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Clone trooper annoyance


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#26 Sinner

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 02:05 PM

View PostTheBrickHitHouse, on Mar 7 2009, 11:54 PM, said:

Each clone has the same genetics, training and experience - there should be fairly limited scope for any individualistic differences
Genetics is rarely an exact science, and I fail to see how you can give all the clones exactly the same experiences... especially since they do not all receive the same training. All you need is for one clone to suffer a knock to the head, have one bad/good day, walk too close to a radiation source and... POOF! ...you have variation.





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#27 KimT

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:26 PM

This is NOT reality.
It's Star Wars... :grin:
The way I see the clones is kinda like a hive thing.
Much like ants - no individuals, just the cause (for the clones; WAR)
Which is also the impression I got from EP2 - The Clone Wars - not much individuality there.
Cannon fodder is a good expression for what the clones are.
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#28 TheBrickHitHouse

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:28 PM

View PostSinner, on Mar 7 2009, 02:05 PM, said:

Genetics is rarely an exact science, and I fail to see how you can give all the clones exactly the same experiences... especially since they do not all receive the same training. All you need is for one clone to suffer a knock to the head, have one bad/good day, walk too close to a radiation source and... POOF! ...you have variation.

Eh?

I said there was ''fairly limited scope''

There is some scope - but its limited.

They grew up in the same building, ate the same food, socialised with the same people, had the same training - obviously they will vary but realistically - by how much?

...and to the person that said clones took 10 years to make...

...evidently they dont, because the Clone Wars lasts just 3 years and they are evidently pretty good at replacing them!
It's all part of the plan....

#29 Millacol88

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:34 PM

I prefer bland, white clones, it makes everything seem more military, and less individual, which seems to fit in with what the clones are (completely non-individual strategic assets). Lucas probably added in coloured ones so it would look like the army was more organized, and that there were separate battalions, legions, etc.

#30 Natman8000

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 01:30 AM

I actually like colored clones. But when it comes to wars plain white is better.

Heres a new question: do clones have souls?
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#31 Sinner

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 01:33 AM

As a general reply;

1. It makes no sense to have the Clones all act the same. If they wanted robots they would have made them. You can build thousands of robots in the same time you get one clone, and it would be far cheaper too. It would make sense that the entire purpose of cloning is to produce a soldier capable of more than just following orders.
2. In the TV show I think it's more an aide to the viewer. If every clone looked and talked the same it would get hard to follow at times.
3. Most sources state clones grow twice as fast as normal, thus the 10 year figure. I've only heard the ultra-quick cloning using Spaarti tech, but that's nothing to do with the Clone Wars.

View PostTheBrickHitHouse, on Mar 8 2009, 05:28 AM, said:

Eh?

I said there was ''fairly limited scope''

There is some scope - but its limited.
I realise that, but just the same I've never see any incredible varience either.

View PostNatman8000, on Mar 8 2009, 11:30 AM, said:

Heres a new question: do clones have souls?
Here's another; what is a soul? Answer that and I'll give your question a go!  :grin:





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#32 KinGanon

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 01:48 AM

Here's another question:

Do clones have a sense of humor?

Spoiler


#33 Natman8000

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 02:33 AM

View PostSinner, on Mar 7 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

Here's another; what is a soul? Answer that and I'll give your question a go!  :grin:

A nishama. Thats what it is in hebrew. Really to me a soul is a part of god that is bestowed to us that is us, as we are made in the form of god, not literally since to me God isnt physical. It is us and when we die our soul goes up to heaven (shamiyim) and so on. Let this not be a debate on souls though.So in the question I imposed is if that is so, does it matter if a clone dies? And can it actually be judged on its own? Or is it just jango fett? And are clones responsible for their actions?

Just a Jewish interpretation, I could write papers on this. This is my shortened personal view, many other people may think the same or differently. Dont debate about souls please though. Just give a noncontroversial answer.
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#34 CommanderCody77

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 11:43 AM

View PostKinGanon, on Mar 8 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

Here's another question:

Do clones have a sense of humor?

Spoiler
Some probably do have a sense of humor. For example, when Ahsoka called Anakin Sky Guy all the clones laughed
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#35 Sinner

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 12:08 PM

View PostNatman8000, on Mar 8 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

Dont debate about souls please though. Just give a noncontroversial answer.
Indeed! It was meant as a rhetorical question.... :wink:





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#36 ADHO15

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 12:26 PM

View PostTheBrickHitHouse, on Mar 7 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

Eh?
They grew up in the same building, ate the same food, socialised with the same people, had the same training - obviously they will vary but realistically - by how much?

And then they were all sent off to different planets, under different Jedi so of course they're personality is going to change to suit that of their Jedi general. Just because they're brought up differently, once they're split up, they're going to change.

View PostTheBrickHitHouse, on Mar 7 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

...and to the person that said clones took 10 years to make...

...evidently they dont, because the Clone Wars lasts just 3 years and they are evidently pretty good at replacing them!

They started making the clones around the time of Episode 1, and make more and more each year to keep a constant supply. There was a ten year gap between Episodes 1 and 2, during which time the clones were trained.
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#37 Bricklanta

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 06:12 PM

I am slightly annoyed at how color used to indicate rank and then it indicated legion as well.

#38 JimBee

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 10:10 PM

View PostKimT, on Mar 7 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

The way I see the clones is kinda like a hive thing.
Much like ants - no individuals, just the cause (for the clones; WAR)
Which is also the impression I got from EP2 - The Clone Wars - not much individuality there.
Cannon fodder is a good expression for what the clones are.
Pesky humanist EB members - shesh :hmpf:
Well, how smart would clones be of you? As smart as you, or less? And you have different  sides to your personality, so wouldn't all of your clones be different?

The way I see it, all clones have some sort of form of Jango's personality still in them. Maybe it was intentional by the Kaminoians, maybe not. Take Clone Wars episode 16 "The Hidden Enemy", for example. One of the clones was going to betray his own "brothers". So no, they are not the same.

View PostSinner, on Mar 7 2009, 07:33 PM, said:

As a general reply;

1. It makes no sense to have the Clones all act the same. If they wanted robots they would have made them. You can build thousands of robots in the same time you get one clone, and it would be far cheaper too. It would make sense that the entire purpose of cloning is to produce a soldier capable of more than just following orders.
Exactly. Clones of a single, intelligent person are much more superior to battle droids. The are different, yet somewhat similar, which may help them cooperate with each other.

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#39 Clonecommando007

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 10:44 PM

As you pointed out, tanotrooper, it's all for the marketing.  Lucas makes millions of dollars through hasbro sales.  What is at the top of hasbro's star wars line?  Action figures.  Currently; clone action figures.  Now, what kid just wants white troopers?  Obviously hasbro is going to make millions more in profit if they sell different colored/armored troopers.

Lucas started out sheer white and black during Episode II, then his eyes were opened and he saw that more moeny could be made with unlimited varieties of troopers.

#40 Future74

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 10:14 AM

View PostKimT, on Mar 7 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

The way I see the clones is kinda like a hive thing.
Much like ants - no individuals, just the cause (for the clones; WAR)
Which is also the impression I got from EP2 - The Clone Wars - not much individuality there.
Cannon fodder is a good expression for what the clones are.
Pesky humanist EB members - shesh :hmpf:


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I sense the dark side in you KimT...  :vader: :laugh:

Hahaha, I like this discussion although it's got nothing to do with lego - although that can be discussed as well  :tongue:  
The clones in ep2 were fresh from the clone facilities were they didnt have the environment to develope into individuals. But since they are clones of humans they ultimately will. Yes, they were ment to be nothing more than canon fodder, serving one purpose only, but this changed during the war.

Wookieepedia says:

Quote

When the Grand Army was first unveiled on Geonosis, the Galaxy thought the clone troopers no better than their droid counterparts; faceless soldiers, sworn to lay their lives on the line for a Republic in which they had no stake, cannon fodder with no minds or lives of their own.

This attitude began to change, however, as the casualties mounted. As the Clone Wars raged on, the Jedi formed a sense of attachment to the clones that they led and treated them as individuals rather than the droids they battled throughout the war-torn Galaxy. Though this caused confusion for many clones at first, most of whom had grown to believe themselves to be no more than a product, they too began to develop genuine respect and admiration for their Jedi leaders. Many Jedi Generals even befriended clones during the war, including Obi-Wan Kenobi and Clone Commander Cody, Aayla Secura and Commander Bly, and Yoda and Commander Gree.

So that's a reason why I would like to see "different" faces.
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#41 KimT

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 12:21 PM

View PostFuture74, on Mar 9 2009, 11:14 AM, said:

Hahaha, I like this discussion although it's got nothing to do with lego - although that can be discussed as well  :tongue:
Ssssh! Don't tell the moderator :laugh:
Well it did at some point discuss the annoyance of having a zillion different coloured clones and thus not being able to make an army of classic white clones.
Now the topic is a little derailed, but I am sure it'll get back on topic.... or not :grin:
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#42 Shadows

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 12:34 PM

View PostKimT, on Mar 9 2009, 07:21 AM, said:

Now the topic is a little derailed, but I am sure it'll get back on topic.... or not :grin:
*takes a hard left turn back to LEGO*

It's ridiculous, that's what it is! Next thing you know, we'll end up with Knights Kingdom style troopers in purple, red, green and light blue!

Crap, that's the wrong forum completely. Well, at least it's LEGO. :sceptic:

Worse still, here's another off-topic point... Will we ever see the old style clone troopers back, the simple ones with black heads, open visors and no holes in their helmets?

I doubt it.  :hmpf_bad:

That really annoys me, I think they look a lot better.

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#43 Palin Jax

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 02:55 PM

Wow...  Awesome topic.  I would love to quote allot of peoples view points in here to point, counter point...  But since this is a mostly a 2 point discussion, I will just state mine.  I love all the multi-colored, diversified clones out there in the TCW.  It shows just how great the Republic was before the fall... that Jedi commanders cared about their "fleshy" troops, that they valued life, and all the wonderful traits you could get from the whole light side of things.  That as wonderful leaders, the Jedi's individual personalities, or rather the clones becoming individualistic, would rub off on the clones that served under them.  I think this is a vast improvement on implementing reality, and show the kind of abrupt change the Empire caused...  just how tyrannical the Emperor really was.  It almost saddens me to see any of you just gloss over this "because" the Stormtroopers where just canon fodder.  Frankly, you can not impose an Imperial dogma on a cultural that existed in stark contrast to the ideals of the Empire, especially when the Old Republic existed before it.  

Also, while the genetic make-up of each Clones is the same, and although they would have all undergone the exact same training, still, events would have occurred different to each, even while in training.  While many of us can not directly point to all the events that have made us what we have become individualistically, many, many things have gone into shaping our psyche, not just school and the like.  Genetically, identical twins are just that, identical.  In fact, they are one zygote that during division split into 2 or more separate entities...  Ask a set of identical twins some time, if they are just one person.  I would apply this to the clones as well...  They might have sounded similar to Jango because he would have been training the first batchs...  not because genetically they where identical....  Again, if identical twins where separated at birth... One sent to live in England, one in America, each, though possessing the same vocal cords, would still have different accents...  But you already knew that. :classic:

But the really crux of this thread starters question was the despair of army building in this envisioned reality.  And from my point of view, this is a mute point, as there are BP's to build armies, containing the black and white clones it would seem must be favored to have an Army.  Personally, I like the way Lego has dolled out the minifigs.  It's nice to get a rare clone in a big set, you only need one anyway.  Some of the more intermediate classes of clones appear in multiple sets, and I was delighted to have the Clone gunners in the bp, because in essences, I need more than just the one that should have been in the AT-TE for manning other positions.  If you are buying the big sets to build your armies, you have way to much cash.

Now, this is my rant...  How could anyone whine about Lucas, or for that matter, Lego, for doing anything commercial?  What, people think Lucas/Lego does any of this for our health?  That Lucas sits up at night, dreaming up ways of perfecting his art, just for arts sake?  If anyone is truly that put off by the fact that Lucas wants to make a buck, well....  Personally, I am just glad they kept this whole thing going....  It wasn't to long ago that fanboys whined about the CW movie...  How bad it sucked...  it wasn't Star Wars...  blah, blah, blah...  I Love the CW...  It rocks.  I love it's subtle depth.  No, it's not some deep philosophical thing we are all guilty of trying to make Star Wars into...  It is a journey...  More accurately, an escape, into that place, that as a children, we have been longing to go.  A long time ago...  Far, Far away...

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#44 CloneCommanderDelta7

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 07:40 AM

To put a long story short, the GAR needed more specialised forces (better pilots, camo scouts, the list goes on and on) and plus each regiment needed a different colour pattern to distinguish themselves.  

Take Captain Rex for example, he got an award-the eyes on his helmet-for some act of bravery and so his helmet was painted with the eyes.  So there you have it, my point of view.
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