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Baritones 2-Day 6


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#26 Jlblue

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 01:43 AM

Quote

Alicia's point about not having a night action not meaning anything still stands though.
True. However, I do know for certain that if he is a rat, he is not one of the more useful ones, considering the fact that he was not out and about last night, and we have two, potentially dangerous and potentially hostile killers on our hands. Because they have both killed rats and non-rats, it will take quite a bit of analysis and thought to narrow down which one is which. Because if you were both loyal, then we'd have three killers, the hitman, Quarrioni and Trexxisanti. That doesn't seem likely to me. Going around killing people with a knife is more serial killer-esque, but either one could be a "vigilante" who decided he wasn't exactly fond of not being picked to be more involved in the killing of rats. Yet either could logically be a rat, when you consider that it is possible Trexx could've killed Boyd thinking that Boyd was not a rat, and Perry seemd like a pretty awful rat judging by the fact that no van drove up. Also Wynona at one point was willing to sell her fellow rats out, and I quote:

Quote

Are some names enough to don't kill me?
It's perfectly possible that the two rats that Quarrioni killed were actually rats within rats, killing them to make sure they don't give away valuable info.

Basically, I'm stumped. I could visualize pretty much either of them as a rat at this point.

#27 Trexxen

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 01:51 AM

I'm glad you're seeing some weight to both sides here, Johnny. I only went off the information LeAnn gave me in the first day, since it was our only usable lead - and thankfully, it turned out to be a good one. And by the way, no hard feelings either way you end up choosing - after all, the only reason you ended up on my list is because of your connection to the most recent mission...

Quarry, Ian has told me that multiple times, Perry has come to do something at his house and Inertia had stopped him. Perry says he was a bodyguard, and I can see that being feasible - an odd role for the antagonists to have, sure, but a useful one if they had managed to get organized early enough. I wouldn't go off of that information, though - after all, he also told me he was loyal to the family.  :sadnew:

All in all, I can see how this could go either way - perhaps we should try to look at other leads, though; the way I'm currently seeing this ending is we both turn out loyal and everyone feels stupid afterwards...

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#28 WhiteFang

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 01:57 AM

I can't believe that Inertiatieri and LeAnn were killed in cold blood... Inertiatieri was like a brother to me, a fellow captain whom make sure that things in the Baritones are run in a smooth manner. It's extremely unfortunate for just one night to lose 2 loyal members....

View PostJlblue, on Feb 3 2009, 06:03 AM, said:

I'm actually fairly certain Willie is innocent. From what I've gathered I don't think he has a night action.
Johnny, thanks for standing up for me. I am one of the few members, whom does not add any values to the night abilities scenario. Since Day 1 till now, I have stayed in my home during the night and is not able to contribute any concrete findings to aid in our daily investigations that is certain based on your abilties. However, the loyal members are reducing as the numbers decline, and Iris vouched to find out the remaining amount of rats left in our organisation...

View PostAlice, on Feb 3 2009, 06:19 AM, said:

Not having a night action does not mean innocence or guilt.  Let's remember that.  I still suspect Willie unless you have other proof, JBlue.
Alice, I agreed with you. A member like me whom does not have any night actions could not caused devasation to any of the sleepless nights. At the same time, you may actually suspect me for voting for the known loyal and acting like a goody two shoes smelly stinky rat.

Based on that very point above, I will like to emphasis that in this game of life, no one will ever know their "true votes" except Iris... We will yell and shout whom we vote for but do we really know whom or what others really vote for... As much as possible, those rats could be hiding themselves among the loyals and voting another person at the same time. The probability of this scenario happening is marginal, because recent convicitons are based on majority loyal members voting at the same time. This may change, as more loyal members were wasted because of the rat abilties to target at night.

Everyone is a suspect based on that very point. It's a risk whether we stay together or sink together as one loyal entity. There is only a very few people whom I truly trust right now and being a loner right now, without Wynona.. Nevertheles, I will still stick my vote with the majority of loyals, hoping to convict the right one.

This is my explaination and how you judged me is entirely up to individual analysis and interpretation.

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#29 Jlblue

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 01:57 AM

I'm 'fraid I wasn't involved in the most recent mission, Trexx.  :sceptic:  The only surviving people in that mission are Pavarti and Willie. The others involved were Richie, Inertia and LeAnn.

#30 Shadows

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 01:58 AM

I've sat back and watched this very disturbing day unfold and it saddens me. We are a family being torn apart by deception.

Let's try this logically.

What do we know?
  • Quarrioni and Trexxasani are the night killers.
  • Either one could be a traitor, both could be traitors, or both could be loyal, as odd as that sounds. I've said it since day 1, the feds probably don't kill, they arrest, they spy, they probably go through our trash and listen to our houses, but I don't believe they kill.
  • Both admit to making some well placed hits and some poorly chosen ones. Given the nature of this game ... of life, I don't know how either has selected targets with absolute certainty, so it's not surprising.
What do we do?
  • Kill one of them randomly. Great. If they're both loyal or if we choose poorly, we've lost a valuable tool that might be keeping us from being overrun by rats. Worse, we might kill one and think we've dealt with the rat, only to discover that both are. I don't believe that to be the case since I'm not convinced that the feds kill, but it wouldn't be the craziest thing to happen thus far.
  • Kill one, then the other. Again, great. If they're both loyal, we're screwed. If we get them out of order, while we're killing the wrong one, the other one kills us (probably me, dammit).
  • Wait. If one is good and one is bad, they can keep killing people behind our backs until we win. Yes, if they both live and kill one person each, per night, the family will win because we'll maintain the lead we currently have. And they'll probably kill me, dammit.

View PostQuarryman, on Feb 2 2009, 03:02 PM, said:

So, I urge you, vote for Trexxisanti today. If I'm wrong you may execute me tomorrow. Though, if I'm wrong I'm pretty sure I won't survive the night anyway.
Didn't that nonsense go out in the middle ages? :hmpf:

View PostTrexxen, on Feb 2 2009, 03:42 PM, said:

But remember, my ancestors all ended up in similar predicaments - one was a noble torturer who led the inhabitants of his castle to victory; the other, a peasant, cast out and murdered due to a false prophet's witchmongering. If you choose to kill this man you see before you, then perhaps you will finally see what it's like to have the blood on your hands...
Blah blah, middle ages again. :hmpf_bad:

Geez, both of our killers are stuck in the past. :sceptic:

View PostJlblue, on Feb 2 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Ian's trustworthy. He may not be right 100% of the time, but he knows a lot and he has good intentions.
Thanks, I think. :look: :laugh:

My instinct here says to do nothing, strange as that is. Tampering increases our chance of upsetting the balance, while allowing it to play out should keep us in the winning position to the end. Until we know who to kill with certainty, we only risk hurting ourselves. Is that a gamble anyone is willing to take, given our poor record of choosing rats?

View PostJlblue, on Feb 2 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

I'm Loyal. Ian should be able to back me up.
This is true, I do believe that he's loyal. I was concerned when Richie seemed to have the same job, but he kept changing his story so much and Johnny didn't, he's said the same thing since the first time we spoke and has provided useful information to back it up.

View PostTrexxen, on Feb 2 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

4. How could I consider Inertia a rat? Firstly, all of that crap about how I was sure he was loyal is a lie - I wanted to do it personally. The main problem is that he treaded a line of secrecy that he should have known better to tread outside of postal messages, and his meddling with my wife's affairs, once I knew her true identity, was an attempt to undermine the family - sometimes I wish I didn't follow my gut.
I suspected him as well, though not enough to convict. I'm a bit annoyed that he's dead, but you've both screwed up enough to share the blame for this whole situation.

View PostAlice, on Feb 2 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

So it's proven that Pavarti doesn't pay attention to dealings in the family.  We are still at odds about the night killer.  Quarry is saying that Trexx is the "bad" night killer and that we can kill him tomorrow if he is wrong.  I've heard that somewhere before.  Geez.   :wacko:
Seriously. :hmpf:

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#31 Trexxen

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 02:07 AM

View PostJlblue, on Feb 2 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

I'm 'fraid I wasn't involved in the most recent mission, Trexx.  :sceptic:  The only surviving people in that mission are Pavarti and Willie. The others involved were Richie, Inertia and LeAnn.

...Really? Damn. That explains why Willie was on Alicia's list...I'm sorry about that, man, I really am. Consider yourself on my good side until you prove otherwise  :tongue:

Thanks for sticking up for me, Ian, and that's my point all along. Even if one of us Quarrioni is a rat ( :tongue: ), if we're lucky tonight will bring plenty of information - there's not that many people left, and there's probably two or less rats remaining (it'd make sense to only be one, given that old scrap of paper). Let's look for solid leads and not go "good killer, bad killer" here. Like I said - this is a mafia, why can't we both be on the same side? Everyone has a weapon, not everyone has the gall to make the decisions myself and Quarrioni are faced with every night.

*walks up to Quarrioni, extends a hand* Truce, for now?

~Trexxisanti
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#32 Shadows

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 02:17 AM

View PostTrexxen, on Feb 2 2009, 08:07 PM, said:

Thanks for sticking up for me, Ian, and that's my point all along. Even if one of us Quarrioni is a rat ( :tongue: ), if we're lucky tonight will bring plenty of information - there's not that many people left, and there's probably two or less rats remaining (it'd make sense to only be one, given that old scrap of paper). Let's look for solid leads and not go "good killer, bad killer" here. Like I said - this is a mafia, why can't we both be on the same side? Everyone has a weapon, not everyone has the gall to make the decisions myself and Quarrioni are faced with every night.
Don't get that wrong, I'm not sticking up for either of you at this point, I just have a weird suspicion that you both might be good. It fits into the way this game ... of life has been played. Without public voting, it's been very hard to discover loyalties, thus meaning that two good killers, though slightly different kinds, could end up being just as much trouble as good (and you both have :hmpf_bad: ). At the same time, I don't believe the feds are trying to kill us, they want our information.

Worst case, you two could always target each other tonight and let this go down "old west" style, since you're both stuck in the past. :tongue:

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#33 WhiteFang

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 02:27 AM

View PostImperialShadows, on Feb 3 2009, 10:17 AM, said:

Without public voting, it's been very hard to discover loyalties, thus meaning that two good killers, though slightly different kinds, could end up being just as much trouble as good (and you both have :hmpf_bad: ). At the same time, I don't believe the feds are trying to kill us, they want our information.
I have mentioned it before. Without knowing the votes, it's hard for us to truly determine individual stands. We need to find a way to overcome it.

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#34 Sir Dillon

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 04:47 AM

It's feels unsafe knowing there are two people out openly killing people, but I have to agree that it might be better to wait a little and see what happens.

I still think we should try to find a rat from yesterday's group by voting for Willie or Pavarti. Right now I am definitely leaning towards Pavarti.
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#35 Shadows

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 04:57 AM

View PostSir Dillon, on Feb 2 2009, 10:47 PM, said:

It's feels unsafe knowing there are two people out openly killing people, but I have to agree that it might be better to wait a little and see what happens.

I still think we should try to find a rat from yesterday's group by voting for Willie or Pavarti. Right now I am definitely leaning towards Pavarti.
Anything conclusive? Aside from both not being overly chatty, I haven't been able to pin them down at all.

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#36 ptdapen

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 05:06 AM

Alright, I'm sorry if I wasn't paying attention.  Maybe I'm just bad at listening, I can't think of anything else to say about it.  I can't really comment on that, but I can't really say that not thinking straightly really defines guilt.  Yes, there's still the fact that I'm part of yesterday's failed operation.  Its incriminating, and I can't find any reason to keep me other than what I can do at the day.  In other words I have no night action to offer.

On the case of Quarrioni and Trexxistianti, neither seem to lead in either direction more than the other.  Honestly I'm at a loss about who to get rid of, but I would suggest not killing either one just yet.  Its a useful role, and now we have the chance to kill not one, but three people a night that are suspicious.  If there are not enough that are suspicious, then they won't have to kill.

Any questions for me?  What I've been doing?
I am dead rat Pavarti, the wife of Quarrioni.  I was shot in the face, and died.  So it goes.

#37 Sir Dillon

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 05:35 AM

View PostImperialShadows, on Feb 3 2009, 05:57 AM, said:

Anything conclusive? Aside from both not being overly chatty, I haven't been able to pin them down at all.
No, but I feel pretty sure that one of them has to be rat. The people in the group were the only ones who knew what they would be doing, so someone had to tip off the feds.
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#38 Dragonator

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 06:56 AM

View PostAlice, on Feb 3 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

Where is my husband!!? DRAGGY!
I'm here honey. :wub:

This day is certainly not going to be a milestone of happiness for our family.  :sceptic: We've witnessed two killers come out into the open, right after the deaths of two innocents, and we seem conflicted on what to do.

I would recommend caution, which is wise in most respects. I am uncertain of whether our two killers are both loyal or if one is a rat. Personally I would be more inclined to believe one of them to be a rat, but I'm uncertain. It all seems very messed up.

If we follow Ian's suggestion and don't vote for either of them, leaving two killers free to take any one of us out during the night, who should we vote for instead? Because Iris will get angry if we don't vote for someone today. Dickie seems to be keen for Pavarti, what say the rest of you? As yet I am unsure who I want to vote for, I want to hear a bit more from the rest of you first before making a decision.

Has anyone voted yet? It would be good to know now...

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#39 TinyPiesRUs

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 07:19 AM

I think we should focus on Willy and Pavarti for now, as at least one of them is confirmed to be a rat. I'm rather indifferent about who to vote off first. While some of Pavarti's posts have been suspicious, she has made some helpful suggestions throughout the game... of life. In particular I remember her defending Stanton, saying that he may have been framed by Zabrina's killer. Willy on the otherhand has been strangely inactive compared to his previous games... of life, an hasn't really done much to help the family. Pavarti, you don't have a night action do you?

Perhaps to keep the two night killers in check, we could vote who for who we want them to kill at night. Sure, the rats could sway this vote, but no more so than they could for our day votes. We are fairly certain that Perry was a bodyguard, so it's unlikely there'd be another rat guard, so we wouldn't have to worry about the rats able to stop the killings.

#40 Shadows

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 09:19 AM

View PostTinyPiesRUs, on Feb 3 2009, 01:19 AM, said:

I think we should focus on Willy and Pavarti for now, as at least one of them is confirmed to be a rat. I'm rather indifferent about who to vote off first. While some of Pavarti's posts have been suspicious, she has made some helpful suggestions throughout the game... of life. In particular I remember her defending Stanton, saying that he may have been framed by Zabrina's killer. Willy on the otherhand has been strangely inactive compared to his previous games... of life, an hasn't really done much to help the family. Pavarti, you don't have a night action do you?
I'm leaning the same way. Stupid isn't as dangerous as silent, sometimes.

Stanton was an unfortunate mistake we wouldn't have made if we'd listened to Pavarti. I don't know if she was just guessing luckily or had a reason to believe he was innocent, but he was and we killed him. If we'd listened, we'd be in a better position now, and you lot wouldn't be drinking all my whiskey instead of his. :sceptic:

When Wynona was suspected, Willie made a post that raised my suspicions, mostly because it seemed to be designed to confuse more than help or even defend. I think he knew he couldn't defend his own wife safely and didn't want to risk it, and for him to know that ...

I'm not sold outright, but I'm definitely leaning.

View PostTinyPiesRUs, on Feb 3 2009, 01:19 AM, said:

Perhaps to keep the two night killers in check, we could vote who for who we want them to kill at night.
Got a specific suggestion? I still like pistols at 10 paces by the pale moonlight.

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#41 TinyPiesRUs

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 09:42 AM

I honestly feel we should kill both of them regardless. Someone suggested that it may take two rats to botch an operation, so if the first one turns out to be a rat, we should kill the other. If the first one turns out to be loyal, we know for certain that the other is a rat. This would also mean that it would only take one rat to ruin a job, meaning that the men involved in the successful operation, Ian, Dragonatieri, Quarrioni and Johnny Blue are all loyal.

We may lose one loyal mobster, but I feel the ends will justify the means or something like that.

#42 WhiteFang

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 10:13 AM

I can't do much at all, unlike the rest whom are able to "do something" at night. I am at home every night, and some of us in previous conversations are talking in circles, prompting me not to trust those loudmouths. Let me emphasis being quiet is not a sin in the Baritones and defending my deceased wife as my position of a caring husband is his rightful duty and if I am judged solely based on that both factors, I will be dread annoyed and never will I rest in peace, living in misery and anger.

It's true that I have not offer any direct aid for this moment, and I never deny it. All of us make mistakes and I am one of the silly members whom voted off Stanton without looking in deeper and that is one mistake which I regret the most. Even right now, so what if I add mine views in, does it really matters to any of you? Mine thoughts are just mere conjunction without any additional hints unlike the rest whom unveil it in the dark. I don't want to add any much neccessary confusion...

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#43 Quarryman

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 10:14 AM

View PostTrexxen, on Feb 3 2009, 02:07 AM, said:

*walks up to Quarrioni, extends a hand* Truce, for now?
Okay, for now.
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#44 Shadows

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 10:37 AM

View PostWhiteFang, on Feb 3 2009, 04:13 AM, said:

I can't do much at all, unlike the rest whom are able to "do something" at night. I am at home every night, and some of us in previous conversations are talking in circles, prompting me not to trust those loudmouths.
You say that, it may even be true, but you still get to vote. Voting is one of the most important parts of this game ... of life. As for loudmouths, please be specific. If we don't talk, we don't get anywhere. This isn't like other situations where we would vote publicly and make our true natures known by our alliances, here we have to talk, unless you have some reason not to want your true nature known, of course.

View PostWhiteFang, on Feb 3 2009, 04:13 AM, said:

Let me emphasis being quiet is not a sin in the Baritones and defending my deceased wife as my position of a caring husband is his rightful duty and if I am judged solely based on that both factors, I will be dread annoyed and never will I rest in peace, living in misery and anger.
If we decide that, you're dead, aren't you? Are you threatening to come back and haunt us? :laugh: Oh, and you only very weakly defended your wife, so don't try to claim a noble position, you simply posted confusing things that didn't help the situation. I would have had more respect for you if you'd actually said, "I can't know for sure, but I hope she's innocent" and left it at that, as opposed to rambling confusion.

View PostWhiteFang, on Feb 3 2009, 04:13 AM, said:

I don't want to add any much neccessary confusion...
That sentence alone was enough, huh? :tongue:

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#45 Sir Dillon

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 05:43 PM

I don't know who would be better to vote off between the two, but what if we just decide on one, and then if that person is innocent, our night killers get the other one?
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#46 Jlblue

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 09:54 PM

Between Pavarti and Willie, you mean? Sounds all right to me. What about you fellas? I don't know why, but my gut tells me that we should vote for Pavarti first.

#47 WhiteFang

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:35 AM

In the recent operation, only me and Pavarti survive, and we have the highest suspect score for leaking out our operations details, except Iris UNLESS someone has an ability of eavesdropping which is not quite possible to do so by intercept Iris. That is one possible theory or new ability and I don't have visible evidence to support this existence.

If you want a vote by the end of today, then my vote shall go for Pavatri, simply based on the fact that I know myself that I am an innocent party, and I know none of you will buy that based on that claim. Therefore, I offered this proposal to all since you guys are forcing me to a bloody corner. Instruct one of the hitmen to eliminate me at night and you will get your long awaited answer for the recent operations in the next day.

To add on to everyone's thought and writing it in a constructive manner, I hope this piece of scenario is useful for all of us.

I find it very unusual to see two hitman on the same side, but my gut feeling tells me that both hitman are innocent, based on this analogy. Rats are supposed to leak information, and most of the time they are not intend to kill but to report to the FBI. FBI's objective is to nab suspects and eradicate our organisation through a civillised and legal manner, and Ian has mentioned many times before, and I think this is a more logical approach. While objective as a hitman are supposed to kill others whom they think are a suspected rat and most of the time, loyals exceed more than rats. Rats will win when loyals are outnumbered than rats. Therefore, I strongly believe that to fasten the process of reducing the amount of rats based on the hitman's judgement, this might be Iris's personal arrangement to place 2 hitmen instead of 1 to get the results fast. Remember, what I said are not quotes from anyone and are mere hypothesis from my analysis. My life span is getting shorter and this is the kind of advice which I offered to my loyal bretherns.

Ian, my true nature in this organsation is loyalty, and if only death could proved my loyalty. I will be glad to do so, to prove my bloody point.. if you are still having doubts about me.

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#48 Jlblue

Jlblue

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:45 AM

But considering the fact that neither Quarrioni or Trexxisanti kill based on votes, if they were both loyal that would mean there would be three killers on our side, Quarrioni, Trexxisanti and someone else who kills based on who we convict. That seems like an uneven slant, right?

#49 Sir Dillon

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 03:13 AM

View PostJlblue, on Feb 4 2009, 02:45 AM, said:

But considering the fact that neither Quarrioni or Trexxisanti kill based on votes, if they were both loyal that would mean there would be three killers on our side, Quarrioni, Trexxisanti and someone else who kills based on who we convict. That seems like an uneven slant, right?
I believe the hitman is someone working for Iris outside the mafia, that way we can continue to vote people off, no matter who dies within the family.

I find Willie's proposition a decent one. We vote for Pavarti, and then if she's innocent have a night killer (or both, in case one gets blocked) kill Willie. Does this sound like a good idea to everyone else?
"I'm sorry, I don't have the time to build anything that doesn't directly promote me."

#50 ptdapen

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 03:14 AM

Well what I suggest, if you really think both of us are rats and want to be safe, that you make Trexx and Quarry kill us at night and vote off someone else now.  That way you know that they won't kill anyone without you knowing and you can get something done today that would otherwise be done tomorrow.  Oh and Piav, I do not have a night action.  Perhaps you have to pay a little more attention like I do...  :hmpf_bad:

Who do I suggest you look into?  Everyone is a suspect now, of course.  Other clues need to be taken in, and ponder more about your loyalties to one another.  I can't really pinpoint anyone to look for to be certain, though there are some that seem in the clear.  Those in the successful operation, for example, should be trusted.

That is all.
I am dead rat Pavarti, the wife of Quarrioni.  I was shot in the face, and died.  So it goes.




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