135 replies to this topic

[captian flint lock]

black seas barracuda all the way!!
since i have the bsb i prefer it to the brick beards bounty

captain flint lock

[blueandwhite]

I still can't figure out why so many of you are down on the BSB colour scheme.  For me, the BSB has one of the nicest colour schemes out there.  Just because there weren't the same number of colours in 1989 doesn't make the colour scheme poor.  Personally I find the dark red/tan/pearl gold colour scheme to be quite garrish.  I mean, given that a number of famous ships including the HMS Victory and USS Constitution imploy a yellow/black or white/black colour scheme I can't for the life of me figure out why it doesn't work for the BSB.  If anything, the BSB colour scheme is perfect.


As for the ships themselves the new BB is certainly better than I expected but the BSB continues to be the best that LEGO has produced.  It's shape and cabin design are simply more elegant than any other LEGO ship.  I also prefer the old masts.  That being said, the new figs are incredible and the pearl gold pieces are going to be very desireable.  In the end, the BB is a very worthy ship.  I'm not too fussy on the Skull and Crossbones sail as it makes the ship less versatile but I don't find the shape of the skull to be as irksome as some people.  Yes, the old one looked better but the new one doesn't make the set some sort of juniorized monstrosity.  Overall, I like BB; just not as much as the BSB.

[Evil Wizard]

I personally - for a new ship!    First - the ship will win of past years, because there is an extra gun at the stern, which can rotate in all directions and shoot much farther than a gun mounted on the side. And despite the fact that the ship in 2009 less pirates - twice - on the old 8, and the new - 4, still new look more virulent, and therefore more like pirates.   That is, and playing with a material point of view, the set of 2009 for any wins out for its color, although it is difficult to judge a set of the best, but certainly lovers of rare sets, will say that old is better. To both, but for me - the ship in 2009 a little bit still outweigh the old one.

[Phred]

Da Death Star!, on Nov 20 2008, 06:00 PM, said:

1.The BB has THREE cannons,plus they fire ,the BSBs do not(At least I think.)

Fluyt, on Nov 21 2008, 03:55 AM, said:

BSB has FOUR cannons, and they do fire   and skull and crossbones and sails are a big downside, they're the main reason this ship looks allmost 4+like  , not a smart thing to have on your sails as a pirate (especially if they're not badass skull and crossbones like on the SES, RBR or RR).
The only thing I agree with is the awesome new minifigs, it's only thing that is better than (most of) the old pirates, only I'm not sure if they fit in together.

IS summed it up here in the What sets came with these pieces? thread.
Basically the first BSB's released in the US had shooting cannons and 1-3 years later they only came with disabled cannons.
If i remember correctly, europe's BSB's always came with shooting cannons.

[Athos]

Definately the BSB. Its got the BB outmanned two to one. Plus the BB has to contend with its prisoner and the attacking guards. Plus I think the BSB has 4 cannons to the BB's 3?

Steve

[Zarkan]

Norrington, on Nov 21 2008, 12:17 AM, said:

I have to disagree with the colorscheme bit.

BSB: Black paint with white stripe and gold/yellow trims.
BB: Brown with tan tripe, as well as black, red, and pearl gold... "accents" if that's what they can be called.

BSB owns the obomonation that is Brickbeard's Bounty.

That's my point - I prefer the more subdued dark red and gold shades to the super bright and cheesy white and yellow shades on the BSB.

But wait, seriously - the BB is an obomonation? While a lot of people have come out and supported the BSB over the BB, you seem to the the only one so far to express such hate for the latest lego pirate ship. Hate like that sure sounds fitting on the 4+ pirate ship, but on a SYSTEM ship? Besides, what is so terrible about BB? It has awesome figures, lots of animals, a treasure chest, plenty of gold pieces, separate hull and mast pieces, a big cabin, some nice detail - and all you can say is that it's plain awful? This makes no sense!  

Also, for those of you who are complaining about the actual presence of a skull and crossbones on the BB, need I remind you that almost every major Pirate ship has had them as well? The Skull's Eye Schooner, the Red Beard Runner, the Cross Bone Clipper, the Renegade Runner - they all had the skull and crossbones, so I don't think you guys are being very fair to the new one.  

[Fluyt]

Grevious, on Nov 22 2008, 09:15 PM, said:

Besides, what is so terrible about BB? It has awesome figures, lots of animals, a treasure chest, plenty of gold pieces, separate hull and mast pieces, a big cabin, some nice detail - and all you can say is that it's plain awful? This makes no sense!  

Also, for those of you who are complaining about the actual presence of a skull and crossbones on the BB, need I remind you that almost every major Pirate ship has had them as well? The Skull's Eye Schooner, the Red Beard Runner, the Cross Bone Clipper, the Renegade Runner - they all had the skull and crossbones, so I don't think you guys are being very fair to the new one.  

Most of the things you mention are parts, not design, a set with nice parts could have a bad design or vice versa   (and those mast pieces are not a plus, they're worse than the original mast pieces). But I can't deny the minifigs are totally awesome.

And the point is that the skull and crossbones are ugly, like they could have used them in 4+ line (not badass like on SES, RBR and RR; CBC skull and swords aren't that great, but they're better than the new one), they're on two sails, and they're badly positioned (as pictured on the box/instructions at least, on the bottom, top would be better).

[MillerTime]

Grevious, on Nov 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

That's my point - I prefer the more subdued dark red and gold shades to the super bright and cheesy white and yellow shades on the BSB.

But wait, seriously - the BB is an obomonation? While a lot of people have come out and supported the BSB over the BB, you seem to the the only one so far to express such hate for the latest lego pirate ship. Hate like that sure sounds fitting on the 4+ pirate ship, but on a SYSTEM ship? Besides, what is so terrible about BB? It has awesome figures, lots of animals, a treasure chest, plenty of gold pieces, separate hull and mast pieces, a big cabin, some nice detail - and all you can say is that it's plain awful? This makes no sense!  

Also, for those of you who are complaining about the actual presence of a skull and crossbones on the BB, need I remind you that almost every major Pirate ship has had them as well? The Skull's Eye Schooner, the Red Beard Runner, the Cross Bone Clipper, the Renegade Runner - they all had the skull and crossbones, so I don't think you guys are being very fair to the new one.  

First off, when Lego switched to bley all old sets automatically start with an edge.  Next, it has too many different uncommon colors, horrible masts, bad way to put sails on masts, horrible skulls on sails, from the pics I've seen...I don't see much detail at all, there isn't much on the boat hulls near the cannons like on the old ships.  All of that together with a $100 price tag (a little overpriced) deter me from buying it.

[Svelte]

Fluyt, on Nov 23 2008, 07:40 AM, said:

And the point is that the skull and crossbones are ugly, like they could have used them in 4+ line (not badass like on SES, RBR and RR; CBC skull and swords aren't that great, but they're better than the new one), they're on two sails, and they're badly positioned (as pictured on the box/instructions at least, on the bottom, top would be better).

The skull sails are on top in the instructions but not the box art - I think as the box art cuts off halfway through the top sails. Since only 2 sails are printed with skulls, these are easily replaced.

Design wise, the BB is extremely stable and the cabin is a fantastic design. The BB does suffer a little in the middle for detail but I think people are overstating the difference. The BSB has a few arches to build some hard to access storage areas but they're more decorative than practical. The one thing BSB does have is a great little cabin near the prow which the BB lacks.

The thing that seems to send people into a frenzy is the masts and especially the sails. The new ones have clearly been designed to be (a) very strong (b) easily assembled by a 6 year old. Complicated string rigging and brick built masts would probably have pushed the set into another age bracket which Lego probably didn't want to do. They intended to make the set appealing to a wide as age bracket as possible, especially for an untested theme in today's market.

Edited by svelte_corps, 24 November 2008 - 01:42 AM.

[Josh]

svelte_corps, on Nov 24 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

The skull sails are on top in the instructions but not the box art - I think as the box art cuts off halfway through the top sails. Since only 2 sails are printed with skulls, these are easily replaced.

Design wise, the BB is extremely stable and the cabin is a fantastic design. The BB does suffer a little in the middle for detail but I think people are overstating the difference. The BSB has a few arches to build some hard to access storage areas but they're more decorative than practical. The one thing BSB does have is a great little cabin near the prow which the BB lacks.

The thing that seems to send people into a frenzy is the masts and especially the sails. The new ones have clearly been designed to be (a) very strong (b) easily assembled by a 6 year old. Complicated string rigging and brick built masts would probably have pushed the set into another age bracket which Lego probably didn't want to do. They intended to make the set appealing to a wide as age bracket as possible, especially for an untested theme in today's market.

I gotta say the barracuda for me as it was part of my childhood and I will forever love that sucker to death!I am going to get the BB but not till I get the skulls eye schooner first since it is  the last one I need from the vintage ships and I have missed out on a few on ebay already doh!!If anyone has a loose one they want to get rid of(yeah right I know) please PM me as I will take it off your hands!
The thing I like about the vintage stuff it has alot more smaller bricks instead of the very large pieces that make up alot the newer sets nowadays which make them less fun to build IMO!!

[gormadoc1]

Black Seas Barracuda or
Brickbeard's Bounty

Both are equaly good ships of similar deign i like the BSB because it just looks like such an authentic and origional pirate ship,but Brickbeards Bounty has a better design and more colours.I have to choose between two great ships but it would have to be the BLACK SEA BARRACUDA! I just love the pirates in this as do I in Brickbeards bounty,but BSB is the the one for me.   

[blueandwhite]

Grevious, on Nov 22 2008, 02:15 PM, said:

That's my point - I prefer the more subdued dark red and gold shades to the super bright and cheesy white and yellow shades on the BSB.

Cheesy?

Honestly, how is a yellow/white/black colour scheme cheesy?  I understand that people may prefer the colour scheme of the BB over that of the BSB, however I would hardly call it cheesy.  The way some people are talking you'd think that the BSB is akin to the old yellow castle when it comes to colour schemes.  Ironically, the BSB's colour scheme is about as authentic as one can get.  

Quote

Also, for those of you who are complaining about the actual presence of a skull and crossbones on the BB, need I remind you that almost every major Pirate ship has had them as well? The Skull's Eye Schooner, the Red Beard Runner, the Cross Bone Clipper, the Renegade Runner - they all had the skull and crossbones, so I don't think you guys are being very fair to the new one.  

Of course, we're not comparing those ships are we?  

Honestly, the large skull and crossbones is definitely going to be a sour point with some people as it limits MOCing potential.  Where the BSB sails could be used for any ship, pirate or not; the BB sails are limited by the presence of the skull and crossbones.  Simply put; the sails of the BSB are more versatile.  While this may not be an issue for you, it is understandably an issue for others.

[Amiral Villenerva]

I prefer the BSB looks above the BB.

I like the rigging and sails of the BSB more, because the ugly skull on the sails on the BB
But I like the realistic new colours and new minifigs on the BB, the BSB has more crewmembers but I like the new crewmember a bit more  
Anyway, they are both nice ships, but I vote for the Black Seas Barracuda.

[Fredster wozere]

Well, I don't own either but I voted BSB. Simply because of it's "classic-ness". Whilst BB has those lovely new figs, I'm not buying the sails with the skulls. Also, the aesthetics of BSB are better than that of BB in my opinion, simply because of the colour and build. Just my opinion though.

[Quarryman]

A match between the best set LEGO has ever produced and anything can never be fair. So obviously it's the BSB that comes out on top. I won't bother repeating all the excellent points everyone else has made about why the BSB is the better choice, but I will add one: the BSB has a much higher piece count, 876 pieces vs the BB's 566 (piece counts from Bricklink, using 6285 and not 10040). That is 310 pieces more, or 55%.


Also, I'm a bit curious, some have posted that the BB has better design. Exactly in what ways does it have that? (apart from the obvious figurehead, which I'll admit is truly excellent, love that.)

Edited by Quarryman, 25 November 2008 - 12:14 AM.

[Legoking]

Black Seas Barracuda is better by miles.

[JahWarrior624]

Skull's Eye Schooner!  

[Zarkan]

MillerTime, on Nov 22 2008, 10:33 PM, said:

First off, when Lego switched to bley all old sets automatically start with an edge.  Next, it has too many different uncommon colors, horrible masts, bad way to put sails on masts, horrible skulls on sails, from the pics I've seen...I don't see much detail at all, there isn't much on the boat hulls near the cannons like on the old ships.  All of that together with a $100 price tag (a little overpriced) deter me from buying it.

Okay, seriously, don't bring the grey/bley argument into this topic - the BB has basically no grey. Secondly, the colors on BB are no more uncommon today than the colors of the BSB were when it was first released. Brown and black are certainly not uncommon, dark red has been in tons of recent sets, and the new gold has been being used a lot more recently. Besides, if they were uncommon, what is wrong with that? Wouldn't you rather have a more original color scheme than the same old schemes we had in the original line? Thirdly, this has already been mentioned, but the price tag is no more expensive than other ships. The BSB did have more pieces, but it also cost more than 100 dollars, so there's no use trying to fault the BB for that.

Quote

The thing I like about the vintage stuff it has alot more smaller bricks instead of the very large pieces that make up alot the newer sets nowadays which make them less fun to build IMO!!

That's a fallacy. The newer pirate sets have no more bigger pieces than the older ones, and this applies to many other themes as well. Even the classic pirate ships had huge pieces, because there is no other way to do solid masts and hulls that can withstand playability. Big pieces have been around for years and years, and I get really tired of people claiming that this is only a modern problem.

Seriously, I think possibly the biggest problem here is that a lot of people just don't want new content at all! Many here would just rather TLC release old kits and not make any new designs, no matter what the new designs may look like. This strikes me as nothing more than excess nostalgism, which is disapointing to me. Although, I can't be sure on this, so correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fluyt]

Grevious, on Nov 25 2008, 11:30 PM, said:

Thirdly, this has already been mentioned, but the price tag is no more expensive than other ships. The BSB did have more pieces, but it also cost more than 100 dollars, so there's no use trying to fault the BB for that.

BSB 865 pieces for 110$: aprox 12,5 cents per piece, BB 566 pieces for 100$: aprox 17,5 cents per piece (and SES about 14 cents per piece). RBR and BB, both a 100 bucks, but it's 691 pieces vs. 566 pieces, so you get a better ship and a 125 pieces more, for the same price! so it is more expensive.
Sure they're a lot of years apart, but a lot of (non-liscensed) sets today have just as good a price/piece ratio (or even better) as 10-15 years ago, but BB does not, and both it, and the older ships have "complicated parts".

Edited by Fluyt, 26 November 2008 - 12:11 AM.

[MillerTime]

Grevious, on Nov 25 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

Okay, seriously, don't bring the grey/bley argument into this topic - the BB has basically no grey. Secondly, the colors on BB are no more uncommon today than the colors of the BSB were when it was first released. Brown and black are certainly not uncommon, dark red has been in tons of recent sets, and the new gold has been being used a lot more recently. Besides, if they were uncommon, what is wrong with that? Wouldn't you rather have a more original color scheme than the same old schemes we had in the original line? Thirdly, this has already been mentioned, but the price tag is no more expensive than other ships. The BSB did have more pieces, but it also cost more than 100 dollars, so there's no use trying to fault the BB for that.

The color shift is light bley, dark bley, brown, etc.  Most of the ship is the new brown...which sucks for all the people who had their collections before Lego made the change. (I don't wanna start that argument all over again....it's been years now haha) BSB has black, light gray, white and yellow.  How were those uncommon in 1989? The pricing on the BSB is confusing to me...the original came out as what, $120? But the re-make came out as $90....I don't see how it can change by $30 that easily.

Anyway, I was just giving the reasons why I dislike the new ship.  I guess if everyone agreed, there would be no point in posting.

[Skelotic]

MillerTime, on Nov 25 2008, 11:14 PM, said:

The color shift is light bley, dark bley, brown, etc.  Most of the ship is the new brown...which sucks for all the people who had their collections before Lego made the change. (I don't wanna start that argument all over again....it's been years now haha) BSB has black, light gray, white and yellow.  How were those uncommon in 1989? The pricing on the BSB is confusing to me...the original came out as what, $120? But the re-make came out as $90....I don't see how it can change by $30 that easily.

Anyway, I was just giving the reasons why I dislike the new ship.  I guess if everyone agreed, there would be no point in posting.

It was actually $125 to $100 but stilla change.  The reason is the BSB had alot more pieces than the BB does.  I personally favor the BB due to the minifigs and the fact I will never own a BSB.

[Svelte]

Fluyt, on Nov 26 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

BSB 865 pieces for 110$: aprox 12,5 cents per piece, BB 566 pieces for 100$: aprox 17,5 cents per piece (and SES about 14 cents per piece). RBR and BB, both a 100 bucks, but it's 691 pieces vs. 566 pieces, so you get a better ship and a 125 pieces more, for the same price! so it is more expensive.
Sure they're a lot of years apart, but a lot of (non-liscensed) sets today have just as good a price/piece ratio (or even better) as 10-15 years ago, but BB does not, and both it, and the older ships have "complicated parts".

According to the box art, BB has 592 pieces, not 566. I doubt BL is accurate on this one since the set has only just been released.

6285 was released in 1989 for $US110, according to Peeron. According to a few online CPI calculators (eg this one), that equates to approx. $US180 today (rounding down slightly). With 876 pieces, that comes to $0.205 per piece.

BB costs $US100 and has 592 pieces, equating to $0.169 per piece.

So actually, BB does have a better price per piece ratio when you allow for the CPI increase between 1989-2008.

Bear in mind I don't think this has anything to do with the relative merits of the sets; I just don't feel that an unfair comparison should be made and allowed to stand.

[MillerTime]

Skelotic, on Nov 25 2008, 09:24 PM, said:

It was actually $125 to $100 but stilla change.  The reason is the BSB had alot more pieces than the BB does.  I personally favor the BB due to the minifigs and the fact I will never own a BSB.

I was talking about the pricing on the BSB.  The remake came out as $90.

svelte_corps, on Nov 25 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

According to the box art, BB has 592 pieces, not 566. I doubt BL is accurate on this one since the set has only just been released.

6285 was released in 1989 for $US110, according to Peeron. According to a few online CPI calculators (eg this one), that equates to approx. $US180 today (rounding down slightly). With 876 pieces, that comes to $0.205 per piece.

BB costs $US100 and has 592 pieces, equating to $0.169 per piece.

So actually, BB does have a better price per piece ratio when you allow for the CPI increase between 1989-2008.

Bear in mind I don't think this has anything to do with the relative merits of the sets; I just don't feel that an unfair comparison should be made and allowed to stand.

Perhaps but the remake came out as $90 like what, 5-6 years ago?

According to your link, $90 in 2002 is worth $103.73 in '07.  That makes 11.57 cents per piece.  Now, I don't carea bout price per part ratio very much because it can be very deceiving.  Parts range in many different sizes for different sets and lots of people don't seem to take that into consideration.  I just look at the set as a whole when judging price.

Edited by MillerTime, 26 November 2008 - 04:47 AM.

[Svelte]

MillerTime, on Nov 26 2008, 03:41 PM, said:

I was talking about the pricing on the BSB.  The remake came out as $90.

Perhaps but the remake came out as $90 like what, 5-6 years ago?

According to your link, $90 in 2002 is worth $103.73 in '07.  That makes 11.57 cents per piece.  Now, I don't carea bout price per part ratio very much because it can be very deceiving.  Parts range in many different sizes for different sets and lots of people don't seem to take that into consideration.  I just look at the set as a whole when judging price.

Clearly functional shooting cannons were much, MUCH more expensive parts than we thought!  

[Captain Blackmoor]

Looks like the BSB is still favorite, and so it is mine.
The BB has new and unique bricks in it but the BSB is better designed and the rigging of the BB looks weak to me. If the BB had a better rigging I might even vote for the BB.
Till now, the BSB is still my favi.

Edited by Cap'n Blackmoor, 09 December 2008 - 08:56 PM.