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#951 Brickadeer

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:53 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 14 April 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

So I just finished Apocalypse, and...wow, I have so much to say about this book. Not much of it good, I'm afraid.

Spoiler
Thanks for your review.

Sounds weird to me; I didn't read through everything.

The prophecy seems to have a couple of meanings. When Maul returned, he recognized that the force "is out of balance", which was explained by Opress with the beginning of the Clone Wars. In this regard, restoring balance simply means to end to clone wars.

I think the point of mystical figures and events is to leave them unexplained. Otherwise, they are becoming facts, and by their very nature, there is nothing mystical surrounding them. For Lucas, the EU seems to create possibilities, while he decides what will be "canon", so I wonder what he'll have to say.

I do not like the name "Abeloth", though. It's fashioned in a way that fits to certain demon novels, but it doesn't fit to Star Wars.

#952 Brickdoctor

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:00 AM

View PostBrickadeer, on 14 April 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

I think the point of mystical figures and events is to leave them unexplained. Otherwise, they are becoming facts, and by their very nature, there is nothing mystical surrounding them. For Lucas, the EU seems to create possibilities, while he decides what will be "canon", so I wonder what he'll have to say.
Well, I think the book does explain them - explains them too much, in fact. If they were never explained - never introduced - Centerpoint Station would be the only relic left, and it would be technology, not magic. Now that things have been explained, everything's been explained, as I said, in an "Magic did it!" sort of way, which is an excuse, not an explanation, and doesn't fit into Star Wars at all.

What wasn't explained was all the motives. I get not explaining those to keep the beings mystical, but if they want the Ones to be mysterious, they should just not tell us about them. Let the fans draw their own conclusions. The fans of magic have their magic, the fans of sci-fi have their sci-fi and the non-magical Force, Lucas has...whatever it is he believes about the Star Wars universe now, and everybody's happy. There are other mysteries left unexplained - I'm looking at you, Yoda's past.

#953 CallMePie

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:11 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 14 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

There are other mysteries left unexplained - I'm looking at your past, Yoda.

That is sacred ground right there. They can write their CW however the want, but messing with Yoda... :sadnew: Sadly, I can see them filling in the blanks here. They added blanks to Maul. They took some away with Evan Piell. But Yoda, I hope, is left alone.
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#954 Brickdoctor

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:19 AM

View PostCallMePieOrDie, on 14 April 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

That is sacred ground right there. They can write their CW however the want, but messing with Yoda... :sadnew: Sadly, I can see them filling in the blanks here. They added blanks to Maul. They took some away with Evan Piell. But Yoda, I hope, is left alone.
You misunderstand; no one's touched Yoda, and I use that as an example of what could have been done - what was done for over two decades - with the Force. Leave it unexplained. Don't tell us about the Ones or explain the Celestials. It wouldn't have made the Force any worse.

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:25 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 14 April 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

You misunderstand; no one's touched Yoda, and I use that as an example of what could have been done - what was done for over two decades - with the Force. Leave it unexplained. Don't tell us about the Ones or explain the Celestials. It wouldn't have made the Force any worse.

I know, I'm just saying I'd really rather nobody set his history in stone, although I can completely see it being done in the future.
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#956 Brickadeer

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:15 PM

I re-watched the paintings of Ralph McQuarrie again.

I'm a bit sad that his somehow wild, archaic, 1940s pulp-fictional style of technology that can be found in his paintings is lost between ESB and ROTJ, and is practically non-existant in the PT and TCW.

Edited by Brickadeer, 14 April 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#957 Flipz

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:48 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 14 April 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

So I just finished Apocalypse, and...wow, I have so much to say about this book. Not much of it good, I'm afraid.

Spoiler

That is....raaaugh!  Where is a Sarlacc to feed stupid authors to when you need it?!

Spoiler

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#958 The Legonater

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:00 AM

Frankly, FotJ has frusterated me in a few ways since the beginning. Now, I haven't read the whole series yet- I just saw Vortex today in paperback for the first time- but what I have read I have a lot of mixed feelings about. It started really interesting, with the whole thing of finding-what-happened with-Jacen. Too quickly, thoguh, it jsut got wrapped up in mystical mumbo-jumbo I really dislike and find deluding. It always seems to take away from a story to me. The Jedi Vs. Government thing was a classic SW conflict, but I consistantly feel it's done badly. It was tiresome in NJO, and it's tiresome here. The fact that they're keeping it up is just frustrating. LotF is the only one that I felt did it right. Speaking of LotF, thus far I've really enjoyed it more than FotJ. The thing that really made it work was the fact that this big dillema was happening with this amazing war in the background, which is something that's really classic-SW, and worked perfectly. Each book had changes/advancments in both the war and the Skywalker/Solo family's situation. FotJ doesn't have that background, instead it has this political mess which is tiresome, and thus far has only seemd interesting to me in Backlash. Also, LotF brought in a lot of old charecters we hadn't seen in a long time, as well as other classic elements of SW- grand space battles, npic duels, etc. FotJ was written almost right after LotF ended, thus the whole 'bring back charecters' aspect was lost. As well, there's little-to-none of the elements mentioned being incorporated.

I'm really hoping they don't do another 9-book series of novels, but if they do, they better do the following.
1. Don't Get Denning. Denning's books are generally dry, dull, and boring. And he ruins stuff. Keep Allstan, because he's great author, as well as humorous, keep Golden if you want, but lose Denning.
2. Remember That This is Star Wars, Not World of Warcraft. Make it feel like Star Wars. Use a full cast of charecters, Jedi and not. Bring in space battles, and duels and stuff. But do not, do not make it some lame mystical fantasy that we don't care about. Do not incorporate magic, or say 'A wizard did it!', because that's also lame and cliche.
3. Make a Good, Interesting Background. And this one ties into Number 2. If you don't care about the background, chances are, you won't care about the foreground. Again I say, LotF was great because it has an interesting background which complented the foreground. The two were connected and itnertwined, yet it was still obvious which was which.
4. Don't Mess up Charecters. Which ties into Number 1 in a way. Don't mess up a charecter's story, not ruin the charecter and general. And if you're going to kill the charecter, do it well. Give it emotion, not a few cheap pages which ruins the charecter anyways. And, just because there's no real better place to put it, don't use the whole 'Luke Heard it on Dagobah' gag. It's been used a painfully numerous amount of times, and using it again in FotJ just about does it for me.
5. Have Fun With It. Exactly what it says on the tin. If you don't have fun writing it, we won't have fun reading it. Plain and simple. Make it good, but make it fun as well. SW have always been fun movies, and it's books should be as well.
Now, I realise DelRey probably never comes over here, but I felt like stating this anyways.


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#959 Brickdoctor

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:22 AM

View PostThe Legonater, on 15 April 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

1. Don't Get Denning. Denning's books are generally dry, dull, and boring. And he ruins stuff. Keep Allstan, because he's great author, as well as humorous, keep Golden if you want, but lose Denning.
It's been a while since I read Golden's last book, but I remember that I didn't really like it. She's new to Star Wars, and I think it shows. Of course, in my perfect world, all Star Wars books would be written by Zahn, Anderson, Reaves, or Perry...but that's not happening. :laugh: In Denning's defense, he did have to tie up all the loose ends set up in the previous eight books, but I think a lot of the mystery simply wasn't set up well. Good mysteries are not based on "Why does this character have ridiculous amounts of power?" A good mystery would be, "Why is this military genius always two steps ahead of us?" or "Who assassinated this person without Force powers and didn't leave a trace?".

View PostThe Legonater, on 15 April 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

4. Don't Mess up Charecters. Which ties into Number 1 in a way. Don't mess up a charecter's story, not ruin the charecter and general. And if you're going to kill the charecter, do it well. Give it emotion, not a few cheap pages which ruins the charecter anyways. And, just because there's no real better place to put it, don't use the whole 'Luke Heard it on Dagobah' gag. It's been used a painfully numerous amount of times, and using it again in FotJ just about does it for me.
Indeed. And stop trying to radically transform characters. You don't need to transform a major character to have an interesting story. You don't even need major characters. Death Star was a great book, and all the main characters of the saga appear in that book only as minor characters.

#960 The Legonater

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:34 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 April 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

It's been a while since I read Golden's last book, but I remember that I didn't really like it. She's new to Star Wars, and I think it shows.

You don't need to transform a major character to have an interesting story. You don't even need major characters. Death Star was a great book, and all the main characters of the saga appear in that book only as minor characters.


I don't really have a specific opinion yet on Golden's books. What I do know, is that the reasons I disliekd her books in FotJ were because of plot, not writing.

I totally agree. In fact, my more favored series (Republic Commando, X-Wing, etc) are totally based on the minor charecters of the movies, if they're in the movies at all.

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#961 Flipz

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:15 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 April 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

It's been a while since I read Golden's last book, but I remember that I didn't really like it. She's new to Star Wars, and I think it shows. Of course, in my perfect world, all Star Wars books would be written by Zahn, Anderson, Reaves, or Perry...but that's not happening. :laugh:

Add Traviss to that list, she is amazing.  Haven't read Anderson, Reaves, or Perry, suggestions?

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 April 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

In Denning's defense, he did have to tie up all the loose ends set up in the previous eight books, but I think a lot of the mystery simply wasn't set up well. Good mysteries are not based on "Why does this character have ridiculous amounts of power?" A good mystery would be, "Why is this military genius always two steps ahead of us?" or "Who assassinated this person without Force powers and didn't leave a trace?".
No, Denning just can't write.  He was handed a brilliant plot and setup from Allston and Traviss, and he somehow completely effed it up in LotF.  I mean, the plot outline was great, the elements were all there, what quite possibly could have been the best megablokin' book in the Star Wars expanded Universe was dropped in his lap--there was no way someone should have been able to mess that up--and yet he messed it up.  His writing is bland and lifeless, and if I ever hear he's been given the beginning or end slots for a series of Star Wars books again I may have to burn my Jedi robes in shame. :tongue:

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 April 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

Indeed. And stop trying to radically transform characters. You don't need to transform a major character to have an interesting story. You don't even need major characters. Death Star was a great book, and all the main characters of the saga appear in that book only as minor characters.

Yeah, what happened to those loads, and loads, and loads of characters that were created back in the day?  You can't bring back a character that's been gone for a long time if you don't create them in the first place.  So many characters have been killed off over the years, we need to replenish the ranks, and not just with the characters' kids growing up.  Give us interesting people!  If you can't come up with any, go talk to the people using the Star Wars roleplaying games, they'd love to help, and they actually know what they are doing!

Someone earlier mentioned that they were glad what's-her-face Sith girl was put on a bus, so she couldn't become a new Mara Jade.  I agree with that; the post-Legacy of the Force era already has its Mara Jade: Morrigan Corrde.  She may not be a Jedi, but she fills that role, and there's no need to add another.

And now just because it'll raise ire and discussion:  Does anyone else think it's about time for them to kill off Luke already?  Discuss. :grin:

And just because I'm bored, a checklist of things that need to be done to set up for the Legacy comics:

Spoiler

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#962 The Legonater

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:26 AM

View PostFlipz, on 15 April 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

And now just because it'll raise ire and discussion:  Does anyone else think it's about time for them to kill off Luke already?  Discuss. Posted Image


To be honest, when reading LotF, I was under the impression Luke was going to die. I think I ahs misread some article or something, but that was what I had thought, and frankly, it would have been the perfect time. I'm actually surprised mroe of the original cast hasn't been killed yet but the fact is- how do you do it? I can't help but feel that a lot of the time main charecter die, it's done poorly. When Luke dies- and it is a matter of when, not if- it better be done right.

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#963 Brickdoctor

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:33 AM

View PostFlipz, on 15 April 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Haven't read Anderson, Reaves, or Perry, suggestions?
Reaves and Perry often work together. Death Star was a great book with no main movie characters appearing as major characters in the book. One of them wrote Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, which I think illustrates what a novel about a single Sith should be - and what Darth Plagueis failed to be. Anderson wrote the Jedi Academy trilogy, which really set up a lot of our current characters. Among Zahn, Anderson, and Lucas, we get the majority of our main characters. Mara, Jacen, Jaina? Zahn's work. Daala, Kyp, Tenel Ka? Anderson's work. (Anderson, by the way, married Rebecca Moesta, who wrote Young Jedi Knights and set up all the original members of the next generation of Jedi - that series is targeted at kids, though; I'm not a huge fan of it)

View PostFlipz, on 15 April 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

what quite possibly could have been the best megablokin' book in the Star Wars expanded Universe was dropped in his lap
In my opinion, no EU book will ever be better than Heir to the Empire. :grin:

View PostFlipz, on 15 April 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Someone earlier mentioned that they were glad what's-her-face Sith girl was put on a bus, so she couldn't become a new Mara Jade.  I agree with that; the post-Legacy of the Force era already has its Mara Jade: Morrigan Corrde.  She may not be a Jedi, but she fills that role, and there's no need to add another.
That was me. Except that in my opinion, Corrde isn't a new Mara Jade, because there can never be another Mara Jade.

By the way, I was looking up various core characters on Wookieepedia to confirm their first appearances, and I found that Anakin Solo (shouldn't have been killed, in my opinion) was supposed to take Luke's place as leader of the Jedi, but it was Lucas who decided that his path was too similar to that of his namesake, leading to his being killed off in Star by Star. Oh! Look! Star by Star was Denning's work, too!  :sceptic:

View PostFlipz, on 15 April 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

And now just because it'll raise ire and discussion:  Does anyone else think it's about time for them to kill off Luke already?  Discuss. :grin:
I have the very improbable hope that that event is never described in any publication. Just leave the gap in the timeline, and let fans draw their own conclusions. I'm pretty sure that no author could ever do his death justice.

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:06 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 April 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

In my opinion, no EU book will ever be better than Heir to the Empire. :grin:

Not even this one?

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:31 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 April 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

That was me. Except that in my opinion, Corrde isn't a new Mara Jade, because there can never be another Mara Jade.

I have the very improbable hope that that event is never described in any publication. Just leave the gap in the timeline, and let fans draw their own conclusions. I'm pretty sure that no author could ever do his death justice.

OK, let's say she's taken over the role of edgy, badass hero that doesn't cross the lines into either sentimentality or unlikeablility. :grin:

If Zahn or Traviss wrote it, I'd read it.

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#966 The Legonater

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:59 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 April 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:


By the way, I was looking up various core characters on Wookieepedia to confirm their first appearances, and I found that Anakin Solo (shouldn't have been killed, in my opinion) was supposed to take Luke's place as leader of the Jedi, but it was Lucas who decided that his path was too similar to that of his namesake, leading to his being killed off in Star by Star. Oh! Look! Star by Star was Denning's work, too!  Posted Image


I've been rereading NJO lately, and am currently on Star by Star. It's one of the dryest books I've ever read. Unfortunately it's also the second-longest SW book (I think) being one-upped by the fantastic Vision of the Future, by Timothy Zahn.

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#967 Oky

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:12 AM

This is a week late, but there's a bunch of pre-alpha gameplay footage of the canceled Battlefront 3 right here. Just a little look into the epic game that could have been. :cry3:

Also, some screenshots here: LINK

Spark Unlimited Announced that they aren't making the game by the way.

#968 Oky

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

EDIT: Oops! Sorry, didn't mean to double-post.

#969 Mr Man

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:55 AM

View PostOky, on 16 April 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

This is a week late, but there's a bunch of pre-alpha gameplay footage of the canceled Battlefront 3 right here. Just a little look into the epic game that could have been. :cry3:

Also, some screenshots here: LINK

Spark Unlimited Announced that they aren't making the game by the way.

Oh crap, I really wanted that game, thanks for the shots though :thumbup:.
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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:06 AM

View PostOky, on 16 April 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

This is a week late, but there's a bunch of pre-alpha gameplay footage of the canceled Battlefront 3 right here. Just a little look into the epic game that could have been. :cry3:

Also, some screenshots here: LINK

Spark Unlimited Announced that they aren't making the game by the way.

So, they were making one of the greatest Star Wars games ever, and then they cancelled it. They think it's a good business strategy, to cancel a great game like this, not even make KOTOR 3 or Republic Commandos 2, but keep making games like Kinect Star Wars, or the Force Unleashed series.

Come on, Farnsworth, it's time to go. :sadnew:


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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

View PostProfessor Flitwick, on 16 April 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

So, they were making one of the greatest Star Wars games ever, and then they cancelled it. They think it's a good business strategy, to cancel a great game like this, not even make KOTOR 3 or Republic Commandos 2, but keep making games like Kinect Star Wars, or the Force Unleashed series.

Though TFU series is really good, but the fact remains SWBFII was the biggest selling SW game, not making a sequel to that is just stupid.
Still people are making great mods fro BFII still, I'll just have to put up with that, or learn to mod myself.
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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

View PostOky, on 16 April 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

This is a week late, but there's a bunch of pre-alpha gameplay footage of the canceled Battlefront 3 right here. Just a little look into the epic game that could have been. :cry3:

Also, some screenshots here: LINK

Spark Unlimited Announced that they aren't making the game by the way.
I am extremely sorry to say this, but that is not BF3. That's a console version of BF:ES. :sadnew:
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#973 Mr Man

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:53 PM

View PostPoison Ivy, on 16 April 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I am extremely sorry to say this, but that is not BF3. That's a console version of BF:ES. :sadnew:

Hmm ES was only available for the DS and PSP, the shots are for X-Box, also there was no Interdictor class in ES.
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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostPoison Ivy, on 16 April 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I am extremely sorry to say this, but that is not BF3. That's a console version of BF:ES. :sadnew:
I find that very hard to believe. I own BF:ES and it's nothing like that! All those maps and some of the vehicles are new. Besides, why would everyone be saying that it is BF3 if it's not true. :wacko:
Well, whatever the game is called, I want it! :cry2:

#975 The Legonater

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:15 PM

I find it very unlikely that a Star Wars Battlefront 3 will never be made, but it may take a long time (Like KotOR, though I'm not totally sure if TOR counts as a sequel.).

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