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#926 The Legonater

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:04 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 18 March 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

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Well that's stupid.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of FotJ either, but at least it was okay for the most part. Now it just seems stupid, and has a direct connection to TCW. I guess it had to happen eventually...

As for your other note, I totally agree. I miss the days when the books where about simple squadrons defeating the Empire, rather than mystical forces no one seems understand- including the authors.

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#927 Flipz

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:35 PM

Well, Rakatans are pretty decent as well, at least from what I know of them in the original Knights of the Old Republic game.  But yeah, I had a sneaking suspicion FotJ was gonna tie in to other media, and this just goes to show it's tied into more than one.  (FotJ is setting up stuff for the epic comic book series Legacy, which, along with the similarly epic Knights of the Old Republic comic book series, was cancelled to make way for...you guessed it...TCW. :sick: :sick:

You know, when I first saw the early parts of TCW, I thought it was going to redeem the Prequel Trilogy.  And I guess it has, in a way.  Just not the way I expected. *cough*PrequelsarenolongertheworstpartofStarWars*cough* :tongue:  In all seriousness, TCW started off promising, and then just suddenly collapsed under itself.

In other news, I just finished reading Crosscurrent...I've gotta say, meh.  If this is Jaden Korr, then I'm not even going to bother with the last installment of the Jedi Knight video game series. The whole thing set up to be interesting, but the plot moved like a bantha through quicksand and by the end I was just wishing it was over sooner.  It's by no means worse than Millennium Falcon, or worse, Tempest from Legacy of the Force :sick: , but in the end it's just rather useless.  It doesn't affect anyone or anything, and there's too much failed Force Unleashed knock-offs to be worthwhile.

TFU was great.  Really, it was, it was an interesting story wrapped around an interesting concept and bogged down by a wooden voice performance and cutscenes (at least in the Wii version).  The book was no Timothy Zahn or Karen Traviss work, but it was still good.  The bad thing about TFU was, every author and his brother decided they had to one-up Galen Marek afterwards, leading to the unsympathetic mass of overpowered super-jedi we see in TCW and FotJ.  TFU kept the franchise relatively mainstream in between Revenge of the Sith and TCW, but at the same time it marked the final point in which the Star Wars franchise remained on the good side of the proverbial shark.  I am convinced that, after the end of TFU, Palpatine went to the nearest aquatic world, found a shark, and Force-Lightninged it until it came back to life. :tongue:

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#928 The Legonater

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

View PostFlipz, on 18 March 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

It's by no means worse than Millennium Falcon, or worse, Tempest from Legacy of the Force :sick: , but in the end it's just rather useless.  

What was wrong with Millennium Falcon or Tempest from Legacy of the Force? :look:

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#929 Flipz

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:55 PM

View PostThe Legonater, on 18 March 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

What was wrong with Millennium Falcon or Tempest from Legacy of the Force? :look:

Millennium Falcon was an immensely interesting read...right up until they reach the last planet, the one with the Yuuzhan Vong stuff on it.  The plot just runs headfirst into a brick wall, trips over its own two feet, and falls straight off a cliff...and ends in a whimper.  It's...just...GRAH!  SO MUCH WASTED PLOT POTENTIAL!

As for Tempest...it was written by Troy Denning.  'Nuff said.

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#930 Fred Daniel Yam

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:07 PM

Millenium Falcon wasn't bad at all and neither was Crosscurrent. Although IMO Coruscant Nights and Knight Errant were heaps better.

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#931 The Legonater

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:03 AM

View PostFlipz, on 18 March 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Millennium Falcon was an immensely interesting read...right up until they reach the last planet, the one with the Yuuzhan Vong stuff on it.  The plot just runs headfirst into a brick wall, trips over its own two feet, and falls straight off a cliff...and ends in a whimper.  It's...just...GRAH!  SO MUCH WASTED PLOT POTENTIAL!

As for Tempest...it was written by Troy Denning.  'Nuff said.


Frankly, I found the ending okay. It wasn't exactly mind-blowing, but in my opinion it's better than you're making it out to be.

As for Troy Denning... that I agree with. I found Tempest's plot was okay, but I've never been very impressed with Troy Denning's writing. Though he seems to do good at space battles (The Hapan Fleet battle in Tempest and the torching in Inferno were both amazing) and 3P0 dialogue (Yeah, I know, that's a small thing, but it's just something I picked up on).

View PostVolcanicPanik, on 18 March 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Millenium Falcon wasn't bad at all and neither was Crosscurrent. Although IMO Coruscant Nights and Knight Errant were heaps better.


The only one of those I've read is Millenium Falcon, but from what I've heard of the plot, Crosscurrent sounds awful. Seriously- Star Wars and time travel just don't mix.

Edited by The Legonater, 19 March 2012 - 01:04 AM.

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#932 Flipz

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:09 AM

View PostThe Legonater, on 19 March 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

Frankly, I found the ending okay. It wasn't exactly mind-blowing, but in my opinion it's better than you're making it out to be.

As for Troy Denning... that I agree with. I found Tempest's plot was okay, but I've never been very impressed with Troy Denning's writing. Though he seems to do good at space battles (The Hapan Fleet battle in Tempest and the torching in Inferno were both amazing) and 3P0 dialogue (Yeah, I know, that's a small thing, but it's just something I picked up on).




The only one of those I've read is Millenium Falcon, but from what I've heard of the plot, Crosscurrent sounds awful. Seriously- Star Wars and time travel just don't mix.

This great superweapon that these senators thought would take down a corrupt dictator (and Sith Lord) was a freaking statue/plaque?!  That was my initial reaction.  The one guy who followed the Solos in tried to explain it, but it was a huge letdown for me.  It would have been more satisfying if the vault had been completely empty and the whole quest had been a complete waste of time, IMO.

I liked Ben's brush with darkness in Inferno, and that is the last good thing you will hear me say about a Troy Denning book.

The time-travel was actually handled pretty well (it makes sense if you've studied the way hyperdrives are supposed to work, there's been previous documented cases of ordinary citizens messing with the temporal shielding on their hyperdrive and stranding themselves hundreds of years in the future).  It's the lignan bit and the overall slowness of the plot that I didn't like.

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#933 Brickdoctor

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:37 AM

View PostThe Legonater, on 19 March 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

The only one of those I've read is Millenium Falcon, but from what I've heard of the plot, Crosscurrent sounds awful. Seriously- Star Wars and time travel just don't mix.
Haven't read it either, but I agree. Time travel is something a series has to be built around (as in Back to the Future) and not added to. (as in the 2009 Star Trek, which wasn't that bad, but still seemed a little confusing)

View PostFlipz, on 19 March 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

This great superweapon that these senators thought would take down a corrupt dictator (and Sith Lord) was a freaking statue/plaque?!  That was my initial reaction.  The one guy who followed the Solos in tried to explain it, but it was a huge letdown for me.  It would have been more satisfying if the vault had been completely empty and the whole quest had been a complete waste of time, IMO.
If I remember correctly, it was a giant chunk of precious metal. Even if it failed as a psychological object to rally around, it could still provide some much-needed funds for the Rebellion. (though it turned out to be a fake)

#934 Flipz

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:02 AM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 19 March 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

Haven't read it either, but I agree. Time travel is something a series has to be built around (as in Back to the Future) and not added to. (as in the 2009 Star Trek, which wasn't that bad, but still seemed a little confusing)

If I remember correctly, it was a giant chunk of precious metal. Even if it failed as a psychological object to rally around, it could still provide some much-needed funds for the Rebellion. (though it turned out to be a fake)

http://starwars.wiki...tivistic_shield

^Explains why this particular case of time-travel didn't bother me.  Note that it references a real-world effect of near-light velocities that is often conveniently glossed over in most science fiction.  Also of note is that the time travel is both one-way and forward, which means it's roughly the equivalent of someone being stuck in a slab of carbonite for a few centuries or some sith lord's evil artifact being buried for thousands of years before being uncovered and used to return the sith to life (neither of which, when done well, are bad plot points).

As for the second part...well, I just re-read that bit.  If the plan had been to sell it for funding for the Rebellion, that might have made a bit of sense, but he specifically states that it was meant purely for use as a motivational symbol.  Hmm, didn't the Marek family crest do that well enough?  (The Republic Group wouldn't have known that in-story, but from a meta standpoint it was common knowledge by that point, and an author should have known even better than most that that plot point had already been used and would seem stale if used again.)  It was a great, GREAT story that was let down by a rushed and nonsensical climax.  Add to that the fact that the ending ties into the beginnings of the atrocity that is FotJ, and you've got an ironclad recipe for disappointment.

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#935 The Legonater

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 19 March 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

Haven't read it either, but I agree. Time travel is something a series has to be built around (as in Back to the Future) and not added to. (as in the 2009 Star Trek, which wasn't that bad, but still seemed a little confusing)

Apun first watching it, the 2009 Star Trek was confusing, until Leanord Nemoy came in. What gets me is that people ignore the fact this wasn't technically the real Star Trek universe and claim that everything is ruined.


View PostFlipz, on 19 March 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Also of note is that the time travel is both one-way and forward.


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#936 Mr Man

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:18 PM

View PostThe Legonater, on 19 March 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Apun first watching it, the 2009 Star Trek was confusing, until Leanord Nemoy came in. What gets me is that people ignore the fact this wasn't technically the real Star Trek universe and claim that everything is ruined.

It is 100% the 'Star Trek Universe', just an alternate one that Enterprise is set in, as opposed to the 'main' one that TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY are set in.
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#937 Brickdoctor

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:18 AM

I just finished Darth Plagueis, so I thought I'd do a short review similar to what I do with CW episodes:

Spoiler


#938 simonjedi

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:57 PM

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I did read the first 4 chapters of 'Milllenium Falcon' before I realised I'd have to read LotF to care about what happens in 60% of the book, and I'm not doing that because it's LotF. Although literally the first chapter makes the Falcon into a ~*MAGICAL*~ ship so that ruined it early.

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#939 Brickadeer

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 27 March 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

I just finished Darth Plagueis, so I thought I'd do a short review similar to what I do with CW episodes:

[review]
Thanks! I asked myself whether I should read this book in order to get more information about Plagueis. Well. Apparently not.

#940 Clone OPatra

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:17 PM

View PostBrickadeer, on 27 March 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Thanks! I asked myself whether I should read this book in order to get more information about Plagueis. Well. Apparently not.
You might as well read the Wookiepedia article.  Just make sure to hold on to your soul; I've found myself reading about Star Wars things for hours on end on the site.
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#941 Brickdoctor

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostClone O, on 27 March 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

You might as well read the Wookiepedia article.
Agreed. You'll get pretty much the same amount of information, and Wookieepedia has links all over the place to make it even easier to look up the gazillion different other publications that the book tries to tie together.

#942 Flipz

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:24 AM

View Postsimonjedi, on 27 March 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

The only other thing I don't like the sound of (and it's a problem in general) is the constant name drops. It makes the universe seem really small because everything seem to happen to the same like 8 people

Agreed.  One of the things that makes the EU so interesting is that there are literally thousands of characters, with developed backstories and characterization, that one can follow.  Tying it all together, while tempting, is a mistake.  Legacy of the Force pulled it off well because it was broken up between different books, it was done logically (i.e. Wedge would be involved more when Corellia was the focus of the war, Pellaeon would show up when the Empire was approached, etc.), and, unless Troy Denning was on a character-mutilating spree* writing, non-Force characters actually did something besides being backdrop scenery for the rest of the cast.

*Ignore the strikethrough text, I'm just ticked off about how Denning wrote Invincible.  The plot points were fine, but his writing is completely unlikeable, and the characters were completely off (aside from the Hapans, who got ignored for the rest of the series that he didn't write).  Seriously, if I ever meet the man, I will challenge him to a lightsaber duel, with the bet being that if I win he never touches the Mandalorians, ever again.

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#943 Sir_Basil_Ashton

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:13 PM

View PostClone O, on 27 March 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

You might as well read the Wookiepedia article.  Just make sure to hold on to your soul; I've found myself reading about Star Wars things for hours on end on the site.
:thumbup: I avoid Wookiepedia for this reason. I've lost many hours of sleep because I had to know something and one page leads to 3-5 pages, leads to 9-15 pages, and it never ends.

#944 The Legonater

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:52 AM

View PostFlipz, on 28 March 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:


*Ignore the strikethrough text, I'm just ticked off about how Denning wrote Invincible.  The plot points were fine, but his writing is completely unlikeable, and the characters were completely off (aside from the Hapans, who got ignored for the rest of the series that he didn't write).  Seriously, if I ever meet the man, I will challenge him to a lightsaber duel, with the bet being that if I win he never touches the Mandalorians, ever again.

Ditto on Denning. He really messed up a lot of charecters. Though, it should be noted that besides Invincible, Traviss wrote anything to do with Mandolore.

Personally, Revelation would have been a much better ending than Invincible, if done right. Revelation had one of the best and most incredible space battles I've ever seen. It has a lot of personaly challenges for allt he charecters. Invincible was just... odd. Nothing really seemed to work. That might be a result of Denning writhing, but in the end it just, really seemed like a series of poorly done battles stitched together.

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#945 Brickadeer

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:30 PM

View PostClone O, on 27 March 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

You might as well read the Wookiepedia article.  Just make sure to hold on to your soul; I've found myself reading about Star Wars things for hours on end on the site.
Thanks. I did. I have to admit that I don't like "The Rule of Two", the fact that he tried to manipulate the medichlorians instead of the force, and, well, pretty much everything that was described in the article. I liked Plagueis much better when he just was a name mentioned in RoTS. Sometimes, when I'm in a bad mood, the authors of the EU remind me of an army of anti-Midas (whatever the plural may be), turning everything they touch into something I'd not exactly call "gold". (No offense meant.)

Edited by Brickadeer, 29 March 2012 - 05:33 PM.


#946 Clone OPatra

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostBrickadeer, on 29 March 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Sometimes, when I'm in a bad mood, the authors of the EU remind me of an army of anti-Midas (whatever the plural may be), turning everything they touch into something I'd not exactly call "gold". (No offense meant.)
That's how I feel about George Lucas and The Clone Wars all the time  :laugh: There's so much EU writing that not all of it can be good, but every so often it's fun.

What do you mean by "the rule of two?" Are you just talking about it as it relates to Plagueis, or are you talking about the Darth Bane novel with that name?
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#947 Brickadeer

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:44 PM

View PostClone O, on 29 March 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

That's how I feel about George Lucas and The Clone Wars all the time  :laugh: There's so much EU writing that not all of it can be good, but every so often it's fun.

What do you mean by "the rule of two?" Are you just talking about it as it relates to Plagueis, or are you talking about the Darth Bane novel with that name?
I mean the general rule that there can only be two Siths at one time. It feels so unnatural. Plus, it is practically offset by the fact that there are apprentices of the Siths.

I know that the rule was meant to preserve the Sith and prevent extinction. But it appears to me that when a student killed the master and is the only Sith left, that comes pretty close to extinction.

Edited by Brickadeer, 29 March 2012 - 06:05 PM.


#948 Flipz

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:55 PM

View PostThe Legonater, on 29 March 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Ditto on Denning. He really messed up a lot of charecters. Though, it should be noted that besides Invincible, Traviss wrote anything to do with Mandolore.

I know, that's why Denning should never touch Mandalorians again.  Traviss did it right.  Denning didn't.

Overall, Denning just can't write.  Period.  Maybe that's too harsh, but it's the truth.  Unless it's necessary to read through a series that I actually like (the way it was with Legacy of the Force), I will never read one of his novels again.

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#949 Legocrazy81

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:46 AM

Next Sunday, April 15th, the show "Inside West Coast Customs" with be doing up a VW Jetta Vader style. The channel is called Velocity. I don't know...this show may be on only in the USA, but I'm sure it'll be on the net in no time. Just throwing it out there. The car looks like it's going to be pretty cool.
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#950 Brickdoctor

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:04 AM

So I just finished Apocalypse, and...wow, I have so much to say about this book. Not much of it good, I'm afraid.

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