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Someone remind why Imperial Guards aren't sold?


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27 replies to this topic  – Started by Mister Phes , Sep 11 2005 03:03 AM

#1 Mister Phes

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 03:03 AM

Quick!  Someone remind me why LEGO doesn't produce and sell Imperial Guards in mini-figure packs of 10 or more?


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Its auctions like these that makes me create threads like this...   *devil*

#2 Thrash

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 03:17 AM

The only explination I can think of is that they don't want to make a profit.


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#3 Mr. Lego-builder

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 03:26 AM

I seriously don't know Pirate LEGO, but this to me is not such a bad deal. I mean if each figure alone was 3 dollars, it would pay for itself. Including the assecories (cannons musket, backpacks, cutlass swords, and the hats), I say this is a nice item if you have the money. But then I again, as I said before, I have very little knowledge in Pirate LEGO and I'm just giving my humble opinions.

#4 The Middleman

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 03:40 AM

Because some people buy sets for the figs... if they came in packs, they wouldn't buy the (more expensive) sets.

#5 legofreak

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 07:22 AM

I wish lego still sold six packs of figs! I miss those days.
of course if the did this with the imperials it'd be nice if the included stormtroopers, and commanders, and snowtroopers.. oh wait the other imperials . right. uh
Oh yeah, it'd be nice if the included three in red, and then three in blue. you could come up with some awesome historical looking battles then :)

#6 Mister Phes

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 10:59 AM

Bloody Jay, on Sep 11 2005, 01:40 PM, said:

Because some people buy sets for the figs... if they came in packs, they wouldn't buy the (more expensive) sets.

Pirate fans do not buy armies of Imperial Guards and not provide them with a base of operations!  The reason we want more mini-figures is because the large sets just don't contain enough for a decent army. To not buy the large sets as well would undermine the purpose of buying the extra Imperial Guards.

Maybe it works like that for Harry Potter or whatever, but not pirates!

#7 ImperialJohn

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:27 AM

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Pirate fans do not buy armies of Imperial Guards and not provide them with a base of operations!
That is your guess!! I would like a LOAD of them for other things beside pirate!!
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#8 Mister Phes

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 12:44 PM

But your heart is not true within the pirate theme as you venture into too many other themes   :-D

I was writing yet another thing to annoy Bloody Jay.  Yes, they're good for European historic armies, particularly British and French.  But what would you use them for?  And don't you already have a number of large pirate sets, anyway?  So that means you don't count!


But to revisit the statement again:

Bloody Jay, on Sep 11 2005, 01:40 PM, said:

Because some people buy sets for the figs... if they came in packs, they wouldn't buy the (more expensive) sets.

I ask, how many people would only buy the mini-figures and not any large sets whatsoever?  Not everyone is a MOC Specialist like Imperial John, so they're going to want some place for all these mini-figures to inhabit.  And what quicker way than to buy a larger set?

This statement also doesn't take into account that some people actually want to buy the larger sets.  The way I'm interperating the statement is if people could get the mini-figures then they wouldn't buy any of the expensive sets ever.  Obviously some people are going to want both.  I cannot believe that everyone will say "Well, now we've got the mini-figures seperately we'll never need to buy a large set again!  We'll just have lots of mini-figures and cram them onto all the smaller sets."

#9 The Middleman

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 05:14 PM

I didn't say 'all', Phes, I said 'some'.

And a lot of people are perfectly content with ordering the pieces they want off of Bricklink.

#10 Mister Phes

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 06:49 PM

Bloody Jay, on Sep 11 2005, 01:40 PM, said:

Because some people buy sets for the figs... if they came in packs, they wouldn't buy the (more expensive) sets.

I don't think I've explained myself very. So I'll try again!

So because of some people LEGO won't produce a 10 pack of Imperial Guard mini-figures because it is assumed they won't buy the larger sets?

Imperial Trading Post is the largest Imperial Guard set and that only contains 4 Imperial Guard mini-figures.  Cannon Cove is one fifth the cost of Imperial Trading post but it comes with 3 Imperial Guard mini-figures.  So for about the same priace as an Imperial Trading Post somone could buy 5 Cannon Coves and have 15 Imperial Guard mini-figures opposed to the 4 they'd get with one Imperial Trading Post.

So I can't see a 10 pack of Imperial Guard mini-figures making the slightest difference to the larger Imperial Guard set.

And the biggest thing you're not taking into account is there haven't been any Imperial Guard sets in stores since 1996.  So even if a 10 pack of Imperial Guard mini-figures did prevent people from buying the larger Imperial Guard sets, its not possible to happen in the first place!

Imperial Guards are waaaaaaaaay expensive on BrickLink and eBay so LEGO might as well capitalise on the fact they are in demand.

#11 blueandwhite

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 10:04 PM

Honestly, considering that LEGO hasn't provided minifig packs for more popular themes in recent years (other than town of course), I just don't see them producing a minifig pack for a theme that has been discontinued for over five years.  Fans have been clamoring for more minifig packs for years, yet nothing has been done.  Heck, I think there probably is a market for minifig collecting, but I don't think that LEGO agrees.  

The thing is, more popular themes have gone without minifig packs for years.  The pirate theme has its loyal fans, but it is hardly a major theme when compared to the likes of castle, space or town.  And in recent years, only LEGO town has been blessed with a minifig pack of any kind.  As an earlier poster mentioned, I believe that this is LEGO's way of enticing customers into buying larger sets.  Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be seeing any new Imperial Guards any time soon.

Heck, I've been holding out for a new castle-themed minifig pack for years.  That will never happen either.  Its just one of those things...


Later.

#12 gylman

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 11:56 PM

Notwithstanding all the whining about minifig costs, you have to admit that those minifig armies are a beautiful thing.  I think that something so nice as that should cost $100+.  

(of course, I admire them from a distance, I have no intention of collecting such an army........ this week anyway).

GYl

#13 MShiels

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 04:29 AM

n/a

#14 Mister Phes

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 09:57 AM

blueandwhite, on Sep 13 2005, 08:04 AM, said:

Honestly, considering that LEGO hasn't provided minifig packs for more popular themes in recent years (other than town of course), I just don't see them producing a minifig pack for a theme that has been discontinued for over five years.  Fans have been clamoring for more minifig packs for years, yet nothing has been done.  Heck, I think there probably is a market for minifig collecting, but I don't think that LEGO agrees.  

The thing is, more popular themes have gone without minifig packs for years.  The pirate theme has its loyal fans, but it is hardly a major theme when compared to the likes of castle, space or town.  And in recent years, only LEGO town has been blessed with a minifig pack of any kind.  As an earlier poster mentioned, I believe that this is LEGO's way of enticing customers into buying larger sets.  Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be seeing any new Imperial Guards any time soon.
Dammit!  This is the correct answer.

But regardless of popularity of the pirate theme Imperial Guards manage to fetch much higher prices than town and space mini-figures all the time.  They also do a good job competing with Castle mini-figures too.

#15 blueandwhite

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 06:33 PM

mister_phes, on Sep 15 2005, 09:57 AM, said:

blueandwhite, on Sep 13 2005, 08:04 AM, said:

Honestly, considering that LEGO hasn't provided minifig packs for more popular themes in recent years (other than town of course), I just don't see them producing a minifig pack for a theme that has been discontinued for over five years.  Fans have been clamoring for more minifig packs for years, yet nothing has been done.  Heck, I think there probably is a market for minifig collecting, but I don't think that LEGO agrees. 

The thing is, more popular themes have gone without minifig packs for years.  The pirate theme has its loyal fans, but it is hardly a major theme when compared to the likes of castle, space or town.  And in recent years, only LEGO town has been blessed with a minifig pack of any kind.  As an earlier poster mentioned, I believe that this is LEGO's way of enticing customers into buying larger sets.  Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be seeing any new Imperial Guards any time soon.
Dammit!  This is the correct answer.

But regardless of popularity of the pirate theme Imperial Guards manage to fetch much higher prices than town and space mini-figures all the time.  They also do a good job competing with Castle mini-figures too.
People who collect town and space LEGO aren't necessarily looking to build armies.  Simply put, this reduces demand for those types of minifigs.  Adding to the demand is the fact that imperial guards only appear in sets between 1989 and 1996.  Space and town figures are more readily available, reducing demand for all but the rarest of figures.

The thing about castle/pirates is that many fans like to build large armies.  These troop building endeavours push prices through the roof, even where the figures aren't particularly rare (Falcons, Imperial Guards etc.).  With fans looking to amass hundreds of these guys, they place themselves at the mercy of sellers looking to exploit their needs.  As a castlehead, I feel your pain.  Trying to amass an impressive army is daunting given that the only way to do it is on the aftermarket.

The thing is, with it being LEGO's 50th anniversery celebration, I was hoping to see a few surprises.  I would love limited-release minifig packs.  Too bad it won't happen.


Later.

#16 Mister Phes

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 02:49 AM

blueandwhite, on Sep 16 2005, 04:33 AM, said:

People who collect town and space LEGO aren't necessarily looking to build armies.  Simply put, this reduces demand for those types of minifigs.  Adding to the demand is the fact that imperial guards only appear in sets between 1989 and 1996.  Space and town figures are more readily available, reducing demand for all but the rarest of figures.

The thing about castle/pirates is that many fans like to build large armies.  These troop building endeavours push prices through the roof, even where the figures aren't particularly rare (Falcons, Imperial Guards etc.).  With fans looking to amass hundreds of these guys, they place themselves at the mercy of sellers looking to exploit their needs.  As a castlehead, I feel your pain.  Trying to amass an impressive army is daunting given that the only way to do it is on the aftermarket.

The thing is, with it being LEGO's 50th anniversery celebration, I was hoping to see a few surprises.  I would love limited-release minifig packs.  Too bad it won't happen.


Later.
You're so consistently right you're scaring me!  You've only made 5 posts and you've done a better job of reminding me than anyone else.

Now...  Next question...
If such mini-figures are so popular on the second hand market, why doesn't LEGO take advantage of this?

#17 Sting

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 05:37 AM

I don't know. The problem is, Lego wants to be a huge succesful leading company like it once was. If Lego would sit back and say "Guys, we just aren't on the top of (most) kid's wishlists anymore".

Lego wants to be a childrens toy, not an adult collecters item. If Lego released old Imperail Guard sets(which would be amazing), unless the children are very into pirates, most would ignore it. People like us would go freekin' crazy and buy 100's of these sets, but it would be more or less an adults thing.

It would be like other 'collectors' items. Like model trains. Which have many devoted fans willing to pay, but all of these companies hardly make massive profits like Lego once did.

I'm kind of all over the place there, but i hope u guys get my point.

#18 Mister Phes

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 06:51 AM

I think I get your point, which is (paraphrased):  Due to LEGO's stubborn pride they won't target a demand for a minority adult market even if they could make some money out of it.

Is that it?

But I can't entirely  agree with the statement "Unless the children are very into pirates, most would ignore it".  From my experience kiddies who aren't that into pirates but would just love to have an Amarda Flagship or Blacks Seas Barracuda re-release.  So their parents have approached me and asked if I could obtain one for them, however, after I tell them the price for a MISB they fast change their mind. The problem seems to be the parents don't want to pay the money even if the kiddie wants the set.  However there's a lot more to it than just that.  It all comes down to LEGO's past bad marketing and poor communication with its customers which I've addressed in other threads countless times.

#19 Norro

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 05:37 PM

Sting, on Sep 16 2005, 05:37 AM, said:

I don't know. The problem is, Lego wants to be a huge succesful leading company like it once was. If Lego would sit back and say "Guys, we just aren't on the top of (most) kid's wishlists anymore".

Lego wants to be a childrens toy, not an adult collecters item. If Lego released old Imperail Guard sets(which would be amazing), unless the children are very into pirates, most would ignore it. People like us would go freekin' crazy and buy 100's of these sets, but it would be more or less an adults thing.

It would be like other 'collectors' items. Like model trains. Which have many devoted fans willing to pay, but all of these companies hardly make massive profits like Lego once did.

I'm kind of all over the place there, but i hope u guys get my point.

    I would like to add to this that I think (in my humble opinion) I spend a lot more time in stores selling lego than any of lego's marketing staff. I talk to parents, kids, and even the odd older enthusist. A lot of people note the fig packs being gone, a lot ask me (because I look so knowledgeable and am just standing there;)) where the basic pirate ships, castles, accessory packs, etc can be found... My conclusion is that AFOLs aren't as out of touch as lego seems to think... everybody likes that 80s-early90s style lego...

            God Bless,

                   Nathan (who will soon set about putting the 'castle' back in castle and pirate :-D )
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#20 Sting

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 06:58 PM

If what you both say is true, than how come Lego isn't releasing sets in the style of the 1980's-1996 style.

Pride, perhaps, but I don't think any amount of pride will stop a company from trying to make money. If anything, Pride would mean that lego refuse to change to match what current children want. And they've 'sold out' in that manner so much in the past 8 years that we know that certainly isn't the case.

I look through the set database at LUGNET and I get so obsessed with lego because the sets that came out back in that golden age, for Pirate, Castle, Town, Space, are so... amazing, that I can't grasp why lego stopped.

The only reasons set go for so much is because of Lego's choice to discontinue sets with quality. I remember seeing a bunch Skulls Eye Schooner at Sears back in 1994ish for $119.00ish Canadian.  I think we'd kill to buy a Skulls Eye Schooner MISB for that much now. If Lego just started making sets that good again, they wouldn't be as rare anymore and prices would drop from the ridiculous Ebay and Bricklink prices we see today.

This works with all themes.

#21 Mister Phes

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 07:32 PM

Sting, on Sep 18 2005, 04:58 AM, said:

If what you both say is true, than how come Lego isn't releasing sets in the style of the 1980's-1996 style.

Pride, perhaps, but I don't think any amount of pride will stop a company from trying to make money. If anything, Pride would mean that lego refuse to change to match what current children want. And they've 'sold out' in that manner so much in the past 8 years that we know that certainly isn't the case.

As a company LEGO must move foward and try new things.  HOWEVER!!!  If you've read or heard any of the latest news you'll find LEGO is increasinly "looking back to the past" more these days then what they have been in recent years.  Of course they still have a bit of a way to go, but they seem to be heading in the right direction for once.


Quote

I look through the set database at LUGNET and I get so obsessed with lego because the sets that came out back in that golden age, for Pirate, Castle, Town, Space, are so... amazing, that I can't grasp why lego stopped.
  

I once asked LEGO why they discontinued the pirate theme and the response I got "We were interested in exploring other themes".  Just look how many themes that appeared in the mid to late 90's that didn't go anywhere...


Quote

The only reasons set go for so much is because of Lego's choice to discontinue sets with quality. I remember seeing a bunch Skulls Eye Schooner at Sears back in 1994ish for $119.00ish Canadian.  I think we'd kill to buy a Skulls Eye Schooner MISB for that much now. If Lego just started making sets that good again, they wouldn't be as rare anymore and prices would drop from the ridiculous Ebay and Bricklink prices we see today.

A MISB Skulls Eye Schooner...  Akkhraziel managed to kill one of those!

#22 blueandwhite

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 09:46 PM

mister_phes, on Sep 16 2005, 02:49 AM, said:

Now...  Next question...
If such mini-figures are so popular on the second hand market, why doesn't LEGO take advantage of this?
This is a question for LEGO themselves...

Of course, we each have our own opinions.  Personally, I suspect that LEGO is concerned that minifig packs eat into the sales of larger (and more expensive sets).  Many collectors purchase several sets for the minifigs alone.  This group of consumers (presumably many whom are entirely unaware of the secondary market, or weary of buying product 2nd hand) would undoubtedly ignore larger sets in favour of the minifig packs.  

When you consider, most of the unique minifigs are included with larger sets, it is quite apparent that LEGO is all too aware that some of us are buying their product with minifig collecting in mind.  I'm personally disappointed that we haven't seen a few 'commemorative release' minifig packs, however that seems about par for the course these days.

I do think that there is a market for minifig packs, however it seems that LEGO is not willing to explore this option at this time.  Still, we can always hope that this trend changes in the near future.

Later.

#23 Mister Phes

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 06:33 AM

LEGO can still put "rare" or limited edition mini-figures in the larger sets, while providing the more common and generic mini-figures in packs.

Anyhow, I'm only enquiring within Imperial Guards sub-theme which isn't realistic as they haven't been sold in the past 10 years.  The point I made in an earlier was, even in the largest Imperial Guard, 6277 Imperial Trading Post set there are only 4 Imperial Guards.  While in the second smallest, 6247  Bounty Boat  or mini-figure pack 6252 Sea Mates there are 2, so all one need to do is buy two these sets and they've got as many Imperial Guards as they would buying 6277 Imperial Trading Post.  

What these sets don't include is the Admiral Woodhouse mini-figure, but a mini-figure pack wouldn't need to.  An Imperial Guard mini-figure pack could contain 6 troops, a commanders, a drumer, a scout, and a Major (or other high ranking officier).  This Major mini-figure could be exclusive to the mini-figure pack and completely different to the Admiral mini-figure.  So if someone wanted both figures, then they would have to buy both sets.  To reiterate: There is NO requirement to put ALL the rare mini-figures or any in the mini-figure pack. Besides we're after the common generic troopers anyway.

There's plenty of other ways LEGO can have mini-figure packs and overcome deterring people from buying the larger sets...

Nobody is going to stop buying 6277 Imperial Trading Post (not that its easy to right now) when the much smaller set 6266 Cannon Cove has almost as many Imperial Guards at 1/5th the price.

#24 Mister Phes

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 01:41 PM

Here are some recent Imperial Guard auctions that have passed me by...  :'(

Lego Imperial Guard Minifigs, Cannon, Flags, Weapons

Lego Imperial Soldiers Minifigs, Cannon, Flags, Weapons


How do these people afford this?

#25 Jipay

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 02:17 PM

They got a job and are addicted to lego ?  :-D




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