Posted 02 July 2005 - 10:00 PM
My first opinion was that they are both British, but redcoats are those who serve close to Admiral Woodhouse and hence the special colour and slightly different flags.
However, recently I tend to think that bluecoats may be French, which would bring more diversity to the Pirate world.
I've also seen other options, like considering both of them the same nation, but calling one of them ground troops or port crews, with the other being navy. It would be something like the diversity of uniforms on "Star Trek" - different for ships, different for bases. But this would require remodelling the original Lego sets - for instance, if you consider the reds to be ship crew, you'll have to change the crew and flag of the Caribbean Clipper, as well as replace the crew and flags of the Imperial Trading post with blue ones and so on.
Tell me what you think, which option you agree with or do you have any other ideas?
I apologise if this has been discussed in some other thread, but I've looked over all the titles and haven't noticed anything like it.
Posted 03 July 2005 - 12:32 AM
Hmmm, I think (in the event that I should get imperial vessels) that I'd end up treating it one of two ways:
Methodology number one: Blue is British imperial navy (at least historically). I'd then probably assign red to a marine expeditionary unit. THe only think I'm not absoutely certain what how it would fit in would be the last years of the imperial armada, which has a definite spanish influence in armor and costume (then again, as I don't necessarily care for the later pirate stuff, I could avoid this problem by not buying them.)
Methodology number two: Given as the pirates got all the big ships anyway, I might be inclined to treat them as French (early blue), British (red) and spanish (green/late blue) in an alliance which was built to curtail the operations of larger than life pirates.Historically accurate...not so much. Fun, yes.
Methodology three: Yes, I know I only said I was going to use two...given the fluer motif on the early imperial soldiers stuff, as well as the almos napoleonic hats, I'd say that thinking they are french is not much of a stretch at all.
Me, I'm likely to do any or non of the above...
Posted 03 July 2005 - 07:23 AM
Akkhraziel, on Jul 3 2005, 10:32 AM, said:
Methadology 1 is the one I've been using.
Here are the uniforms:
British Navy - Officier's Uniform
British Army - Typical Lobster
I have seen the custom French mini-figure uniforms somewhere, and they incorporate the red elements into the design making them distinctly different. This includes the design template and the actual finished result. So as soon as I remember where I've seen them I'll post images.
Another reason why I use Methadology 1 is because I live in the hope that one day LEGO will actually release a French sub-theme for Pirates with different uniforms. I shall go back to dreaming now...
Posted 03 July 2005 - 07:57 AM
Mister_phes, could you give some links to where you've found these pictures (I mean those of real uniforms)? I'd like to broaden my historical knowlegde about those naval forces we are discussing, perhaps you know some good websites too?
Yes, the armada should definitely be considered Spanish, so the question remains if there are three or two naval powers in the Pirate theme (or should I say one and a half, because of the very few Spanish sets released).
But they really don't have to be in an alliance :)
Yes, I think even adding red sleeves and red epaulettes would do the trick, leaving yellow epaulettes for the Britons.
Yes, that would be nice indeed. Plus the continuation of the Spanish subtheme of course.
Other ideas I've considered are: mixing bluecoats with redcoats freely as they belong to the same naval force (but what about the flags then?) or dividing them according to ranks, for instance: red coats for officers, blue coats for lower ranks.
Posted 03 July 2005 - 12:32 PM
Dreamweb, on Jul 3 2005, 05:57 PM, said:
Posted 04 July 2005 - 11:59 AM
Posted 04 July 2005 - 12:56 PM
a) Those who think the blue coats are French and just the red are British
b) Both blue and red coats are British
c) Completely different view beyond all comprehension.
Posted 04 July 2005 - 01:13 PM
Akkhraziel, on Jul 3 2005, 12:32 AM, said:
red is marine exp. unit (remember the nickname "lobster"?)
blue... hm... isn't that limited to officers and lower ranker staff (midshipman,...) in brittish navy?
there is "a the spanish influence" because tlc mixed two historical eras in one theme. the spanish soldiers refer to the 15-16th century; the brittish troops refer to 18-19th century.
Posted 04 July 2005 - 01:38 PM
They colonised Barbados in the late 1620's... Siezed Jamaica from the Spanish in 1655... They colonised Antigua in 1667... British Virgin Islands annexed in 1672... The 17th century was a big year for the British in the Caribbean.
By the way, I'm conquistador now! The English are my foes! They ceased so many colonies from Spain. I want REVENGE!!! :^D
Posted 06 July 2005 - 08:39 AM
Posted 06 July 2005 - 08:48 AM
Posted 06 July 2005 - 09:14 AM
There could also be non European sub-themes like the rastafarians or the Mayans, Incas, Aztecs and Olmecs (which the lovely Spanish so kindly wiped out). But I'd say the Indigo Islanders were Olmecs since they seem a bit out of place and little is known about them.
We would almost create an entirely new thread for this discussion... Providing there are enough interested contenders... But I see potential for this discussion to go away beyond the topic of this thread. Well I hope anyway...
Posted 06 July 2005 - 12:11 PM
Posted 06 July 2005 - 02:55 PM
Posted 09 July 2005 - 12:29 PM
Posted 09 July 2005 - 01:42 PM
Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:22 PM
Posted 17 August 2005 - 09:37 AM
It would be good to have someone other than me posting images in this thread!
Posted 20 August 2005 - 07:37 AM
I wish Lego would kickstart the Pirate Line again. Me and my Pirate-Loving Friend have talked about the possibilities.
I think it would be incredible if Lego released some Quality pirate sets. They could either have the French/British/Spanish, although the British or French would make the most sense, as I believe the Spanish's power was sinking in the Carribean by the mid 1700's(I could be TOTALLY wrong... if I am please correct me :D )
If Lego doesn't want to use real world nations anymore, they could just make a generic "Imperial Power" group, which would just HAPPEN to look exactly like the British/French/Spanish. LoL
I think that this time though, the IMPERIAL FLAGSHIPS should be bigger than the Pirate ships, as this would be the more realistic case. An ideal release for ships would be...
1 Very Large Imperial Galleon (Size of the Skulls Eye Schooner, Black Seas Barracuda, ect). It would be very 'Imperial' looking with the fancy decor, and come with a load of sea-ready sailors, grunts, officers and one admiral/captain and governor.)
1 Large Pirate Ship (Size of Carribean Clipper) A big ship which is loading with more cannons than it looks like it should have, ragtag decor... you know the deal
1 Small Pirate Ship (Renegade Runner size)
1 Merchant Ship (Renegade Runner size) Just a generic ship with sailors and neat cargo.
This is just my ideal release for ships... not bases, ect
This makes me depressed that I know Lego will never do this... I love how alot of new Lego Torso's look... so the new Pirates/Imperials would have awesome torso's either way...
I know this wasn't really on topic... but I had to get it off...
Posted 20 August 2005 - 05:35 PM
Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:18 PM
Sting, on Aug 20 2005, 05:37 PM, said:
We've been discussing the possibility of future Pirate sets in The Pirate Theme ended so you'll find lots of ideas there. And to a lesser degree in One very attackable merchant...
Maybe I should move the last two posts to keep them together. Hmmmm... Maybe later....
Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:41 PM
Dreamweb, on Aug 21 2005, 03:35 AM, said:
I've decided to put my response to this in The Pirate Theme ended... just so things are in the right threads...
Posted 21 August 2005 - 01:53 AM
Posted 21 August 2005 - 03:26 AM
I never thought about putting red and blue in the same set, but it does make sense. Not sure about the flag though. Does it need to be the same colour as soldiers? But then, if we were to look at the Union Jack its red, blue and white...
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