Devorath

CCBS Discussion and Reference

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Hi everyone,

With the help of Brickthing, I bring you the CCBS (Character and Creature Building System) Discussion and Reference topic.

Feel free to discuss things like:

-Overall thoughts about the Bionicle, HF, Ultrabuild (includes Ben 10), Slizer and Throwbot building systems.

-How they connect to other building systems

-What pieces they need to/should add (not JUST this one)

- And anything else about any of the above building systems.

-Recolour discussion!

Facts about the CCBS Building Systems

-All of these building systems are subsystems of the Technic system

Edited by Devorath
Edited Title

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Need more bone colors!

I think we don't need more colours as a whole, because IMO, most/all bones should be covered by shells. However, naked bones, and bones covered by the smallest 3M(?) shells should be coloured.

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I think we need new armor pieces, the ones from Ordeal of Fire are getting pretty old now and we haven't had new ones since. Preferably armor that covers the entire bone better rather than just a side.

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Just a reminder of all the other discussion points:

Feel free to discuss things like:

-Overall thoughts about the Bionicle, HF, Ultrabuild (includes Ben 10), Slizer and Throwbot building systems.

-How they connect to other building systems

-What pieces they need to/should add (not JUST this one)

- And anything else about any of the above building systems.

I'll start them off:

One thing I like more about the Bionicle BS than the HF one is the Bionicle pieces have a lot of texture. 2013 moulds are getting better at this (the rock and fur piece), but Bionicle pieces had nice valves, gears and other details moulded on the parts. While HF has a plethora of printed pieces, I generally prefer Bionicle pieces. However, the 'shell on bone' design of HF is better than the Bionicle joints, which can be hard to connect (I remember in the early years I had to get help from my parents to get the ball joint in the socket).

Thanks for talking about this, and Brickthing, for your help. Let's hope this topic keeps on going strong!

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Not to self-promote, but I made a recolours topic a few days ago, even though the premise covers HF-pieces only: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=79942

But this topic is another matter entirely, and creating it was a very good idea. :thumbup:

Personally, I find the HF system a great innovation and a huge improvemente to the Bionicle system(s?). Bionicle struggled for a while to find its signature system (just compare 2001 and 2005), and when it did (2006), it brought great articulation but awkward designs and proportions. Many pieces were blocky and/or not very useful (many parts introduced in 2004-2005, which soon became obsolete).

The HF system shows Lego finally found the right building system for action figures. The main pieces (bones and shells) are plain and generic, and they shouldn't be anything else.

Bionicle pieces fused aesthetics with structure/function, HF separates the two for far greater customization.

Bones and shells provide the structure of the figure (its shape, proportions, size, etc..).Detailed shells (ie Breakout torsos), masks, printed elements and add-ons with double connection (ie rounded shoulder pads) make the figures more interesting/unique.

No new shells/bones need to be released: the foundations have been laid, now it's time for recolours and new parts with aesthetic purposes.

I probably wanted this post to be longer, but I lost inspiration. But I think I wrote enough for now.

EDIT: I just realized I had left the the second-to-last sentence unfinished. :blush: I fixed that and I added another paragraph.

Edited by Shakar

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Just a reminder of all the other discussion points:

I'll start them off:

One thing I like more about the Bionicle BS than the HF one is the Bionicle pieces have a lot of texture. 2013 moulds are getting better at this (the rock and fur piece), but Bionicle pieces had nice valves, gears and other details moulded on the parts. While HF has a plethora of printed pieces, I generally prefer Bionicle pieces. However, the 'shell on bone' design of HF is better than the Bionicle joints, which can be hard to connect (I remember in the early years I had to get help from my parents to get the ball joint in the socket).

Thanks for talking about this, and Brickthing, for your help. Let's hope this topic keeps on going strong!

I love the BIONICLE parts' textures from an artistic perspective, and they provide an interesting challenge from a MOCing perspective, but overall I like the simpler, smoother textures of Hero Factory parts. For one, Hero Factory shells and beams end up feeling a lot more consistent with basic System and Technic elements than most BIONICLE parts did. And on another note, one thing that was important to me even in BIONICLE was the idea of stylistic consistency. I had a strong dislike for sets and MOCs that used inconsistent textures willy-nilly, without any kind of internal logic regarding what each texture was meant to represent. And in my BIONICLE drawings (including my human BIONICLE stuff) I would take great pains to emphasize the textures that were repeated across any set's design while minimizing the emphasis on mismatched textures.

So overall, BIONICLE parts' textures added a great deal of visual interest, but as for the usefulness to the building system, I much prefer Hero Factory's tendency to use largely consistent textures across many of its pieces. And while I don't mind more specialized texture elements like those in the Chima constraction sets or even many varieties of torso shell, I'm always a bit uneasy about the prospect of textures becoming too complex and diverse.

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Perhaps a three-direction bone piece, although that can actually be done with several parts currently. What I would really like is a piece that allows one to connect axle-using pieces to shells. To get an idea of what I'm talking about, look at TV-show Breakout Rocka's shield.

Edited by DraikNova

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I prefer Hero Factory aesthetics to Bionicle. I really like the solid, refined, angular designs over the organic bionicle parts which from time to time would be too busy and create results that were cluitered to the eye.

While Hero Factory is designed to be simpler it also makes characters look more appealing and overall more attractive. I do believe it is time for some specialized parts for the sake of variety. We have been using the same feet since the 2.0 series, save from Bionicle claw feet for some of the enemies and the odd Ben10 feet. We got Stormer XL feet but they are not particularly nice or versitile. I'd like to see more feet variety. Perhaps a new design altogether. Also, I think it's due time to get proper back pieces designed. You can only be so creative with feet and multi tool pieces used for backs. After a while MOCs end up looking too simiral with so few options.

I think Lego is in the right track with the ball and shell system. They've come up with a simple and elegant system that has proven very versitile even in the face of its own limitations. I'd like to see more variety in textured pieces and specialized pieces that can be attached to existing shell like the knee pads and shoulder pads offered in the Breakout sets. In a sense I'd like variety.

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Personally, some of my favorite pieces were the Savage Planet claws, which extremely multifunctional, being usable as paws, as arm guards, as shoulder pads and even as simple feet. More parts like that would be great for Hero Factory.

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I do believe it is time for some specialized parts for the sake of variety. I'd like to see more feet variety. Perhaps a new design altogether

Indeed. While the 2.0 Hero-Foot is very versatile, and looks good on a variety of figures it's being used so often in the same way that it's almost boring.

The same applies for the Bionicle feet, like the 'Piraka' and the two-clawed feet, though I do like the design of the latter very much. Those two types of feet are limited with their building possibilities.

I saw DraikNova's comment, and this above, and had an idea.

Personally, some of my favorite pieces were the Savage Planet claws, which extremely multifunctional, being usable as paws, as arm guards, as shoulder pads and even as simple feet. More parts like that would be great for Hero Factory.

I'm thinking a whole new foot could be made, using inspiration from the Savage Planet paw part mentioned in Draik's comment..

The foot could be modeled like the current two-claw foot, but at the point where the toes start, instead there would be the lightsaber-sized rods for connecting those clip-on claws, like on Pyrox, or the Exo-Force Fingers, like on Orgum. Said part would still feature the axel connection points like on the current two-clawed foot, and with the parts smaller size and simpler look, would open up many MoCing possibilities. Not only that, but the clip-rods would allow for more options in posing the figure- in other words, toes!

Said foot could be featured on its own in a set, without claws or Exo-Force fingers, and would look close to how a lion's foot does in real life.

I thought about the possibility of a third clip-rod on the back of the foot, if one wanted to add a claw there, but I think an axle part would be better for two reasons- the stub sticking out for the axle would provide stability for the foot, and the axle would be easier to use if you wanted to use this part for,say, a Dragon's jaw or something.

I think it would be a rather nice idea, and I will draw and have a concept idea of the part up sometime in the next few days.

What do you all think of this foot idea? Yay, or nay?

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Great idea. Those parts could also be used to make a cockpit for a primarily system mech. I think that you could add another rod connection behind the point with the axle hole.

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Personally, the foot piece I most want to see is one somewhat like the 2.0 foot piece or Toa Mata foot piece in proportion (i.e. a heel that only sticks out one module, and a 5-6 module overall length), but with the ankle joint placed one module lower. This would reduce posability slightly (since the leg wouldn't be able to angle down as far before hitting the front of the foot) and would require eliminating the connection points on the sides. But on the plus side, it would be a more compact piece better-suited to use as a detail element (think Toa Metru feet, but more proportionate when used as an actual foot), and more importantly, it could be used with a friction joint without making the ankles look unnatural as in the case of Furno XL. More connection points could easily be added to replace those which have been removed.

My reason for wanting a foot like this is that currently it is near-impossible to make a foot with the distance from ground to ankle proportioned in this way, even using basic Technic elements. The primary option currently is to use a Y-joint in a position similar to the Toa Hordika foot (ball cup facing back towards the heel) and a Technic construction for the base of the foot (any currently-available foot pieces are too large to be proportionate on a figure scaled to this ankle). These foot proportions could be used for figures of any scale (except those significantly larger than the typical XL Hero), whereas the 2.0 foot looks a bit oversized even on a small or medium Hero set, is completely infeasible for a figure based around XT4's torso with more Matoran-like proportions, and begins to look ludicrous when used with a friction joint as would be ideal for XL builds.

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I guess this is the right topic for my post.

I've been thinking about this in the last two days: the new head has a handle bar. Obviously it was designed for the Hero visors to attach, but Front implied the new head isn't going to be used in 2013 just to be thrown away later, quite the opposite actually.

I think the handle bar could be used for many cool poseable add-ons: for example, headgears similar to the ones the 2.0 Heroes wore. Or, in the case of figures like the Brain Attack villains (where the bar is in the chin area, instead of the back of the head), to attach a lower jaw.

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They should make a new torso piece with some axle connection points, and a smaller version of the Savage Planet paw piece. Also, they could use the Brain Attack visor piece for a lot of different things, so I expect to see it being used for something other than a head protecting decoration.

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I think the handle bar could be used for many cool poseable add-ons: for example, headgears similar to the ones the 2.0 Heroes wore. Or, in the case of figures like the Brain Attack villains (where the bar is in the chin area, instead of the back of the head), to attach a lower jaw.

Imagine what Jawblade could have looked like if we'd had this headpiece earlier.

Also, I think we need some parts meant for really big builds, perhaps several "part-torso" pieces.

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The main addition I'd like to see the building system is waist articulation. Specifically, I'd love to see separate torso beams and torso shells for the upper and lower body of a model. The way the current torso beams and shells are designed unfortunately does not support this for smaller models. I have come up with one Technic-based torso with an articulated waist that is largely to scale with 2.0 Hero Factory torso shells but having one shell cover an articulated torso means it is ineffective when the waist is bent to a very large degree.

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The main addition I'd like to see the building system is waist articulation. Specifically, I'd love to see separate torso beams and torso shells for the upper and lower body of a model. The way the current torso beams and shells are designed unfortunately does not support this for smaller models. I have come up with one Technic-based torso with an articulated waist that is largely to scale with 2.0 Hero Factory torso shells but having one shell cover an articulated torso means it is ineffective when the waist is bent to a very large degree.

Yeah, I'd like some civilian sets (Note: Just saying this is not on topic, it needs the next part) because it would enable parts for cylindrical torsos (eg Zib, standard civilian). Also some non-trans new heads would be great :drool: .

Off topic, running this is quite fun actually; it's like being a moderator, but a one-topic moderator! :grin:

Edited by Devorath

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Honestly I want more parts that have those clips on them. The extra detail is getting really nice on these figures and opens up lots of possibilities. That back clip for instance on the head. Hair anyone?

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