80 replies to this topic

[Captain Roger]

Captain Fortune, on 20 November 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

My vote is for the Captain Roger, but I think that we all know that Roger and BrickBeard are the same person. I think that Lego simply wanted to renew his awesome but old-fashioned Captain.

Are you sure? I haven't seen an official Lego document that express Roger and Brickbeard are the same person. We can believe it, but we can't assure it until we could read an official document.

Brickbeard is (no doubt about it) the replacement of Roger. Both have the same pegleg, the same lack of right hand(but different hook), both have red beard, an eyepatch on their right eyes, black and smart clothes, etc.

But I think they aren't the same person, because they have different names.

[Mazin]

Unfortunately those offical documents are considered Top Secret right now and they will be declassified after 70 years...

[Captain Roger]

Mazin, on 20 November 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Unfortunately those offical documents are considered Top Secret right now and they will be declassified after 70 years...

You kid about this because when you read "official documents", you think about FBI, CIA, and something like that, but there are Official Lego documents, like catalogues, comics and magazines, that told us information about the characters.

We know about the names of the pirates Roger/Redbeard, Will, Anne, Rummy, and Flashfork thanks to the promotional comic that Lego released in 1989. We know the names of Governor Broadside and Liutenant De Martinet thanks to the same comic.

Thanks to Lego catalogues, we know the name of Captain Ironhook, King Hakuka, Admiral Woodhouse and Captain Brickbeard.

And thanks to an official Lego magazine, we know the names of all Redbeard Runner tripulation.

If an official Lego magazine/website/catalogue/whatever tell us that Brickbeard and Roger are the same person, we can assure they are the same person.

[Grimmbeard]

I personally don't believe they're the same person. Yes they have similar features, but those are really just what people expect out of a Pirate. IMO Ironhook is closer to Roger/Redbeard than Brickbeard.

[Mazin]

Quote

You kid about this because when you read "official documents", you think about FBI, CIA, and something like that, but there are Official Lego documents, like catalogues, comics and magazines, that told us information about the characters.

I know that... it was just a joke my friend, just a joke


I never really cared about those names, to me Ironhook and Redberd were the same person, only in a different outfit... baa... being a kid I never saw a difference between Soldiers and Imperials - to me they were same old soldiers, only in different uniforms
If I can recall it correctly Imperials "boss" was even named "Governor Broadside", right?

[Grimmbeard]

Mazin, on 21 November 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

I know that... it was just a joke my friend, just a joke


I never really cared about those names, to me Ironhook and Redberd were the same person, only in a different outfit... baa... being a kid I never saw a difference between Soldiers and Imperials - to me they were same old soldiers, only in different uniforms
If I can recall it correctly Imperials "boss" was even named "Governor Broadside", right?

Actually the Imperial Guards (old redcoats) admiral was Admiral Woodhouse, though its funny to me that in the original LEGO Racers game he was called Broadside.

[Mazin]

He was? Heh... it's kind of funny that they used the same names system - Broadside and Woodhouse, not trying to make the otherone sound somewhat french, spanis, this way it look like there were two british-originated military factions fighting for the same area
was it actually ever said why they had two military factions in Pirates? some story background? - were they ever officialy named enemies or something?

Edited by Mazin, 21 November 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Grimmbeard]

Well, most people consider the bluecoats to be French and the redcoats to be British, but Lego would never actually name a specific country for each faction. As far as if they were enemies, I'm not sure, since they weren't produced at the same time. Though I guess here on eurobricks they are enemies, thanks to the Tournament of Retribution.

[Mazin]

Yeah, I guess tying Blue Coats with French and Red Coats with British started right at the very begging of Lego Pirates
It's kind of surprising that they actually released those 2009 sets with Red not Blue ones, as they are the ones considered "classic" and more popular among the fandom - well, that's my observation at least


BTW what is the name of that 2009 admiral/governor... is called ...house or .... side again?

[Grimmbeard]

There was another thread about the names of the 2009 figs, but unless I'm mistaken TLG never released any official names.

[Captain Fortune]

Captain Roger, on 20 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Are you sure? I haven't seen an official Lego document that express Roger and Brickbeard are the same person. We can believe it, but we can't assure it until we could read an official document.

Brickbeard is (no doubt about it) the replacement of Roger. Both have the same pegleg, the same lack of right hand(but different hook), both have red beard, an eyepatch on their right eyes, black and smart clothes, etc.

But I think they aren't the same person, because they have different names.

You're right, we haven't seen an official Lego document that express Roger and Brickbeard are the same person, but we haven't seen an official document that express the contrary. In this case, we only have an option: believe it or not.

And what do makes me believe that they are the same person? Well, you just said it: they've got absolutely the same traits and characteristics. We can consider Brickbeard some kind of "tribute" to Roger. The "charisma" of this minifig seems irreplaceable, so Lego tried to renew it, including his name.

Your reason is that they have different names. That's true, and I respect that you consider them different persons. But I think that when Lego changed the name, they meant something like "Guys, we changed the name but come on, you know who's this Captain. And he's back.".

[moschino]

Captain Fortune, on 22 November 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

Your reason is that they have different names. That's true, and I respect that you consider them different persons. But I think that when Lego changed the name, they meant something like "Guys, we changed the name but come on, you know who's this Captain. And he's back.".

Correct!

Captain Roger, on 20 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Are you sure? I haven't seen an official Lego document that express Roger and Brickbeard are the same person. We can believe it, but we can't assure it until we could read an official document.

Brickbeard is (no doubt about it) the replacement of Roger. Both have the same pegleg, the same lack of right hand(but different hook), both have red beard, an eyepatch on their right eyes, black and smart clothes, etc.

But I think they aren't the same person, because they have different names.

There are some several strategies of marketing in order to not fail. Lego is doing marketing all over the world and their interest is to not fail, so they have to follow the old strategies.
One main rule is to not change the logo. For example, Pepsi changed their logo some years ago and that is the time when they lost a lot in front of Coca-Cola, when Coca-Cola keeps their logo since 1886 and they're doing well without any threat around.
Only few weeks after Pepsi changed their logo, there were noticed less sales, and few months later they lost their contracts with various Restaurants such as Pizza-Hut, KFC, etc, in various countries worldwide.

Getting back to the point, after 54 years of marketing, Lego is not that stupid to change the logo of the brand named "Captain Roger".
Of course, then you can ask, "Then why they just didn't keep Captain Roger in the sets?".
Well, because the interval between last pirates appearance and 2009 series was 12 years, and if after 12 years of pause you come with the same brand without any changes, this would prove weakness and a lack of creativity of the company designers and creators, so again, Lego wasn't that stupid to fall in this trap.

They knew that a captain who wears black coat, eyepatch on the left eye, hook on the left hand, woodleg on the right foot, and epaulettes, sells, and sells extremely good, so naturally because they wants to sell, then they give us what we want.
They kept all these together and they created the pirate captain (as we want), but a bit different than the previous one due to the reason I mentioned above.

If they would only change the appearance, but they would have kept the name of Captain Roger, then they would have fall into what Pepsi fall and again, Lego wasn't that stupid. So they simply gave us what they knew we want, and they gave us another name, also by keeping a phonic correlation to the old winner by keeping the word "beard" (BrickBeard / RedBeard)

You said something about any official document.
A serious company would never say the obvious because their interest is to let things to be interpreted by the user in the way how he likes.
A big "Captain Roger" fan would be insulted if you will say him that this new pimp is "Captain Roger", so by not making any official declaration, they gave us infinity ways to interpret the character and guess what... Lego won once more!

Edited by moschino, 22 November 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[Captain Fortune]

moschino, on 22 November 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

...

Absolutely agree.

You've explained the marketing reasons, you hit the nail on the head. In addition, there is another reason: The 2009 wave of Pirates appeared in the 20th anniversary (1989-2009). It is a tribute to the old Classic Pirates, we all know that; and I think that is also a tribute to the old fans, the kids from the 90's. And I think that Roger/BrickBeard is part of this tribute. Lego wanted us to recognize the Pirate Captain of our childhood. Otherwise, Lego could have changed totally this minifig.

[moschino]

Captain Fortune, on 22 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

In addition, there is another reason: The 2009 wave of Pirates appeared in the 20th anniversary (1989-2009). It is a tribute to the old Classic Pirates, we all know that; and I think that is also a tribute to the old fans, the kids from the 90's. And I think that Roger/BrickBeard is part of this tribute. Lego wanted us to recognize the Pirate Captain of our childhood. Otherwise, Lego could have changed totally this minifig.

You're perfectly right.

I never realized that Pirates 2009 were released 20 years after the first pirates. I just missed this connection.
You just caught them, so this is what they did behind the scenes.

Now if I reflect a bit further into this, I also notice that the first Captain Roger's ship has red&white sails, and 20 years later Brickbeard's Bounty has red&white sails.
BSB has a total of 5 sails and BB also has a total of 5 sails keeping the same shape.
BSB has enough space to place only 2 cannons per side, and BB also has only enough space to put 2 cannons per side.
The masts were redesigned on BB, but the overall shape is almost identically with BSB's.
The colour palette also is very similar from BSB to BB, as the most used colors are Brown, Black and Yellow.

I don't believe in so many coincidences all together, so to me now it's more than clear that Pirates 2009 are a tribute to Pirates 1989, and Brickbeard's Bounty and Captain Brickbeard are a redesign of Blackseas Barracuda and Captain Roger.

Edited by moschino, 22 November 2012 - 12:40 PM.

[Captain Roger]

moschino, on 22 November 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Correct!



There are some several strategies of marketing in order to not fail. Lego is doing marketing all over the world and their interest is to not fail, so they have to follow the old strategies.
One main rule is to not change the logo. For example, Pepsi changed their logo some years ago and that is the time when they lost a lot in front of Coca-Cola, when Coca-Cola keeps their logo since 1886 and they're doing well without any threat around.
Only few weeks after Pepsi changed their logo, there were noticed less sales, and few months later they lost their contracts with various Restaurants such as Pizza-Hut, KFC, etc, in various countries worldwide.

Getting back to the point, after 54 years of marketing, Lego is not that stupid to change the logo of the brand named "Captain Roger".
Of course, then you can ask, "Then why they just didn't keep Captain Roger in the sets?".
Well, because the interval between last pirates appearance and 2009 series was 12 years, and if after 12 years of pause you come with the same brand without any changes, this would prove weakness and a lack of creativity of the company designers and creators, so again, Lego wasn't that stupid to fall in this trap.

They knew that a captain who wears black coat, eyepatch on the left eye, hook on the left hand, woodleg on the right foot, and epaulettes, sells, and sells extremely good, so naturally because they wants to sell, then they give us what we want.
They kept all these together and they created the pirate captain (as we want), but a bit different than the previous one due to the reason I mentioned above.

If they would only change the appearance, but they would have kept the name of Captain Roger, then they would have fall into what Pepsi fall and again, Lego wasn't that stupid. So they simply gave us what they knew we want, and they gave us another name, also by keeping a phonic correlation to the old winner by keeping the word "beard" (BrickBeard / RedBeard)

You said something about any official document.
A serious company would never say the obvious because their interest is to let things to be interpreted by the user in the way how he likes.
A big "Captain Roger" fan would be insulted if you will say him that this new pimp is "Captain Roger", so by not making any official declaration, they gave us infinity ways to interpret the character and guess what... Lego won once more!

You are wrong about The Lego Company won't change officially Captain Roger/Redbeard's design for marketing reasons. They did it in 2004:

http://www.peeron.com/inv/sets/7075-1

[Sebeus I]

Captain Roger, on 24 November 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

You are wrong about The Lego Company won't change officially Captain Roger/Redbeard's design for marketing reasons. They did it in 2004:

http://www.peeron.com/inv/sets/7075-1

The 'junior' pirates don't actually count in my opinion, Correct me if I'm wrong but these line (Jack Stone-similar) was a subdivision next to System..I think

[Captain Roger]

You are right, Sebeus. I am trying to explain Moschino about he is wrong when he says a serious company like Lego won't change an original design because a big Captain Roger/Redbeard fan would be insulted if you will say it that Brickbeard is Captain Roger/Redbeard.

The fact that TLC gave that name to an awful minifig is a great proof. Saying that terrible and childish minifig is Captain Redbeard is MUCH MORE offensive that saying Brickbeard is Redbeard...and Lego did it.

Edited by Captain Roger, 24 November 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[Marc2501]

Captain Brickbeard :)

[moschino]

Sebeus I, on 24 November 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

The 'junior' pirates don't actually count in my opinion, Correct me if I'm wrong but these line (Jack Stone-similar) was a subdivision next to System..I think

That's what I wanted to say...

Captain Roger, on 24 November 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

You are right, Sebeus. I am trying to explain Moschino about he is wrong when he says a serious company like Lego won't change an original design because a big Captain Roger/Redbeard fan would be insulted if you will say it that Brickbeard is Captain Roger/Redbeard.

The fact that TLC gave that name to an awful minifig is a great proof. Saying that terrible and childish minifig is Captain Redbeard is MUCH MORE offensive that saying Brickbeard is Redbeard...and Lego did it.

Well, sorry, but me too I can't count that pirate in this story.
If tomorrow Lego will create a Pirates Series for DUPLO, they will create a pirate in pink pijamas and they will name it Captain Roger, that doesn't mean that is a re-brand of the Captain Roger of Lego System.

If this guy,



would be named Captain Roger, I'll actually find it more as a tribute to System Pirates, so kids of 3-4 years old now have their own mighty Captain who once they grow up, it will turn to this:

[Captain Roger]

moschino, on 24 November 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Well, sorry, but me too I can't count that pirate in this story.
If tomorrow Lego will create a Pirates Series for DUPLO, they will create a pirate in pink pijamas and they will name it Captain Roger, that doesn't mean that is a re-brand of the Captain Roger of Lego System

I can't count that nasty piece of plastic in this story either. But once you said the junior captain Redbeard released in 2004 isn't a re-brand of 1989-1997 Captain Redbeard, you are expressing a personal opinion, not a fact. Other people would think that nasty and childish piece of plastic is a re-brand of Captain Roger/Redbeard, and they will be offended. So TLC made a mistake once thet gave that nasty piece of plastic the name of Captain Redbeard. And if Lego did it, Lego could say Brickbeard is Roger/redbeard too.

By the way, Captain Pete has 5 votes but no one have said "my vote for Captain Pete". Who has voted him?

[moschino]

Captain Roger, on 25 November 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

I can't count that nasty piece of plastic in this story either.

I really like how sounds "nasty piece of plastic".
You made me laugh.

Captain Roger, on 25 November 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

By the way, Captain Pete has 5 votes but no one have said "my vote for Captain Pete". Who has voted him?

Well, me too I was surprised.
I don't think there's anyone who really enjoy that Pirate as being the Captain of the crew.
I think people who voted with Pete only intended to sabotage the result of the Poll.

I don't dislike Pete, but he's only an outsider so I simply ignore him.

[Grimmbeard]

Did Pete even have a crew? How is he a captain?

[PrivateGoat]

the Pirate Captain of Minifigure series 2012 is the most detailed of them all, but I would say Captain Pete is my favorite because he's got Gold accessories.

[MstrOfPppts]

I really don't understand all the fuss in this thread, since there only is one true captain - and it's Captain Jack Sparrow!

... not on the list for some reason :(

[Captain Roger]

Grimmbeard: Pete hasn't a crew. He is considered a captain because he hasa bicorne with the jolly roger logo.

PrivateGoat: Captain Pete hasn't gold accesories. I guess you mean Brickbeard or the new Captain of minifigure series

MstrOfPppts: This poll is about non-POTC Lego Pirate Captains. By the way you are wrong about there is only one true captain:

1) Captain Roger is the leader of a big crew, has 3 pirate ships and 3 bases
2) Captain Ironhook is the leader of the Renegade Runner tripulation
3) Captain Brickbeard is the leader of the Brickbeard's bounty tripulation.
4) The new Captain of the collectable minifigures is a captain according with his biography.
5) Pete is supposed to be a captain because he has a black bicorne with the jolly roger, but we don't know anything about his life. We can doubt about if he is a captain or not, but Roger, Ironhook, Brickbeard and the collectable minifigure are true pirate captains, and this is undenyable.