Sold out

[Vee]

Sorry if I ask too many questions but there are so many things regarding Lego that puzzles me that I can't help but ask for others' opinions to try to make sense out of them.

My next Lego puzzle is: why Lego online shop keep showing in its website sets that are "sold out" and I'd say with a 99.99% probability of ever coming back?

The above is just a sample from the site, there are lots more. I know that a few "sold out" items may make a come back but do you really believe that the ones above will ever come back? They are not supposed to, right?, so why keep showing them?

And also I believe there is some bug in Lego S@H website because it has been showing some "Sale prices" for the sold out items that I believe never really happened, like the 10230 set @ $40, did it really sell at this price at some point? (there are more of these very low suspicious sold out sale prices in the website).

[DrJB]

It could be something very 'basic' ... For example: It is very easy to modify the tag (available/sold-out/back-order) on an item than it is to modify/reformat the entire web-page...

[Vee]

I don't think so. If you are a programmer you should know that a flag (true/false) in a database for an item would be enough to define if that item has to be show or not and an application would do it, no human interaction needed except for setting the flag (again, a true of false would suffice). It is actually pretty simple programmatically speaking. These days, you program a web page, you don't write it manually.

[Hrafnblod]

I always wonder about this too, it seems really counter-intuitive for them to have in some cases whole waves of a theme taking up a page or two of space with products that aren't coming back.

[JGW3000]

I got some items at the sale price, only to have the availability change from "ending soon" to "sold out". I made purchases at about 12:02 am, after the 12 midnight update, Later the same day, about 8:00 am, the sets were sold out. So yes,. some sets do get sold at the discounted clear-out price, and of course rapidly get cleared-out.

[Vee]

As an always half-empty glass Lego fan I would say that they (TLG) wait until they have like 7 or 8 sets left and then they make the sale, just to tease those that paid a lot more...

[ShaydDeGrai]

Years ago I successfully bought the last copies of the Santa Fe train (engine and multiple cars) after they were "sold out" at the US website. I actually called S@H on the phone in the vague hope that maybe they could tell me if any of the brand stores might still have one on the shelves and the (very pleasant) operator ran a query on the computer and told me they still had several in inventory and sold me the lot over the phone.

According to her (and keep in mind this was quite a awhile ago so take it with a grain of salt), the system automatically tags a product as "sold out" when the remaining inventory drops below a certain threshold (based on popularity and average sales volumes from the recent past). They did this to avoid the unpleasant scenario of having someone stick something in their cart but (for whatever reason) have it not be available by the time they actually go to check out.

I'm sure their software has gotten better over the years (like introducing new status flags as "call for availability") but part of me still wonders if "sold out" is really "gone" or a code word for "if you call and beg, there might still be one or two out on the shipping dock".

[TheLegoDr]

^That is very interesting. I'm sure they do have a minimum threshold they would suggest calling for availability or terming it as sold out.

I do know the Mini Modulars did go for that cheap price, I think around Brick Friday?? I purchased mine when it was first available, so it didn't phase me, but I do remember seeing it that cheap before.

I would imagine anything that cheap, especially an exclusive will go quickly!

[Wodanis]

Interesting. Unfortunately I tried calling lego customer service thinking they may still have some of the autumn scene polybag left. They were sold out on lego S@H and didn't have any more. Really annoyed by that as I wanted to get two of them. :(

Edited January 21, 2014 by Wodanis

[Faefrost]

I would guess that the product is kept visible even when sold out, if Lego still has a certain number available somewhere in the channel. Ie enough pieces still on brand store shelves that may return to the central warehouse. So there may be a possibility that some may pop up briefly here and there. They probably do not pull the listing until the set reaches its formal EOL date.

[aurly]

I guess it lets customers know it's sold out, and not a problem with the website.

[montgocloud]

I guess it lets customers know it's sold out, and not a problem with the website.

That's definitely a reason. Also, for non-exclusive sets, it could be to warn customers to look for it on other websites quickly before prices skyrocket.

[Blondie-Wan]

Once in a while, a "Sold Out" set does come back, too. More than once I've gotten sets that had previously been listed as sold out.

[Phoxtane]

More than once I've gotten sets that had previously been listed as sold out.

I ordered a 42000 Grand Prix Racer, which had been labeled as 'Sold Out'. It went through processing and shipping normally, and arrived yesterday. The whole time it was listed as 'Sold Out'. I'm not quite sure what to say about that.

[Vee]

Uhmmm, what can I say... well, I just love my signature...

[rollermonkey]

OK, it's getting to be a bit ridiculous...

On the US S@H, 105 items are "sold out", 8 are "call for availability" and 15 items are out of stock. That's 6 full pages of items being listed that can't be bought, not counting the sets with future release dates.

[Bricknblue]

I always thought it was for reference if people came into the physical LEGo Brand Stores so they could match prices and see what's going on with sets.

They do that with sale ideas. "Sold out" online for months, but will then be listed as half off. It's so the store knows what the price should be if they have any left.

[The Architect]

I don't think so. If you are a programmer you should know that a flag (true/false) in a database for an item would be enough to define if that item has to be show or not and an application would do it, no human interaction needed except for setting the flag (again, a true of false would suffice). It is actually pretty simple programmatically speaking. These days, you program a web page, you don't write it manually.

Vee's got the skills!

[Faefrost]

I don't think so. If you are a programmer you should know that a flag (true/false) in a database for an item would be enough to define if that item has to be show or not and an application would do it, no human interaction needed except for setting the flag (again, a true of false would suffice). It is actually pretty simple programmatically speaking. These days, you program a web page, you don't write it manually.

For most sales inquiry systems that I have dealt with, either online stores or internal systems for sales people, the flag that you are talking about (how many we have?) is what triggers the "sold out" message. Whether or not to display the item in the system typically comes from information the items product manager puts in. Such as date that it will start being sold, and date that it will be retired. There are plenty of sales reasons to display the product as existing, even when sold out. Not the least of which being psychological (we don't have it today but keep checking back. We do sell it!) or marketing (we don't have that today, but you may like this instead!) . I have never seen a situation where a product gets pulled from being displayed through wholly automated inventory control systems. It only happens because the person in charge of that product specifies when it should happen. It is not an issue of it being technically possible via the program. It is an issue of human control over marketing and product lines. It is not typically desirable as a matter of business practice to automate such to that degree. You gain more business trust letting the customer see that the item is sold out (gee must be popular), then them not being able to find any sign of it.

Does that make any sense?

Edited February 2, 2014 by Faefrost

[Vee]

... ...

Does that make any sense?

Honestly, it doesn't for me.

I have a very simple mind. For me, if the item is sold out and chances of it coming back are slim - and it _is_ slim! - the item should be removed from customers eyes, period. If the item happens to come back one day, put it again in the website for sale. Leaving the sold out items in sight for so long is, at the least, disrespectful to the customer (to _this_ customer here, at least). Why do I want to know what WAS available for sale at retail price if it is not anymore? Consider that there are now thousands of Lego sets that once existed and exist no more in Lego store so it is not a few of them being shown in their website that is going to help, even if they are the most recent ones.. If I want to know what were the sets that once existed and were available, I never go to Lego website, I go to brickset, google, etc.

Worst: what is the use of letting customer know that a set that is not available anymore at retail price one, for some unknown period of time, was on sale for a much cheaper price? Why do I want to know this? To get upset because I was not one of those that was able to buy the set at such lower price? Again, disrespectful.

Whatever information they have about the item, if they set the status as sold out, it is sold out. Hide it. If ever it comes back, show it. It is that simple for me.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts, everyone has the right to have their own opinion. Mine just doesn't change, despite all that has been written here.

[Faefrost]

Honestly, it doesn't for me.

I have a very simple mind. For me, if the item is sold out and chances of it coming back are slim - and it _is_ slim! - the item should be removed from customers eyes, period. If the item happens to come back one day, put it again in the website for sale. Leaving the sold out items in sight for so long is, at the least, disrespectful to the customer (to _this_ customer here, at least). Why do I want to know what WAS available for sale at retail price if it is not anymore? Consider that there are now thousands of Lego sets that once existed and exist no more in Lego store so it is not a few of them being shown in their website that is going to help, even if they are the most recent ones.. If I want to know what were the sets that once existed and were available, I never go to Lego website, I go to brickset, google, etc.

Worst: what is the use of letting customer know that a set that is not available anymore at retail price one, for some unknown period of time, was on sale for a much cheaper price? Why do I want to know this? To get upset because I was not one of those that was able to buy the set at such lower price? Again, disrespectful.

Whatever information they have about the item, if they set the status as sold out, it is sold out. Hide it. If ever it comes back, show it. It is that simple for me.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts, everyone has the right to have their own opinion. Mine just doesn't change, despite all that has been written here.

Because even simply showing that the set exists but is currently sold out, gives the customer critical information. Information that the customer does not get if the set simply vanishes from the catalog. It's a perception and marketing thing. Even if the product is never restocked, at least having a period of time (typically through its expected life cycle) where it is still visible gives most customers greater faith in the brand and other products. Plus it has the additional benefits of being able to gauge interest and of pointing customers to related or similar products as an alternative. The absolute worst thing a merchant or manufacturer can typically do is make something just simply disappear. Most would rather see a reason why it cannot be bought today, than not be able to find any information.

[Vee]

Maybe your reasoning makes sense for some customers, but probably not for others like me. I can't understand the benefit, under my point of view, under the point of view of someone that wants to buy a Lego set (otherwise, why would I visit the website?), to find in Lego website sets that I cannot buy. I understand that by seeing some sold out sets, I may be interested in something similar but chances are higher that I will get upset because, since I have seen it, now I have the desire to have it, but I can't, and what if I cannot find anything similar that is not sold out? If I had not seen it, I would not be wanting it, then I would probably be happy with something else. You know, out of sight, out of mind!

You said that " ... the absolute worst thing a merchant or manufacturer can typically do is make something just simply disappear..." but I would say that the worst thing is to make the product become a ghost, something that you can see but you can't touch.

The one thing that Lego does that I think is fair and thoughtful is to label the products that are about to retire with the "Retiring Soon" status. But, since they don't do this for all products, some vanish without previous notice, then the fairness and wisdom of the idea also disappears, because you know that you cannot trust that Lego will always mark the retiring products as such. If you can't trust for some, you cannot trust for anyone because you never know...

It should be phases. For sale, out of stock (still for sale, just be patient), retiring soon (still for sale but you'd better buy it now or never) and sold out (never again for sale), then sold out status should go away after, let's say, a couple of weeks. Then, if you look for some set that was supposed to be there and is no more, you know that it is gone for good.

[rollermonkey]

I agree to some extent. Under the sold out category, they list products with anticipated restock dates or timelines, as well as retiring soon products. If a product is retiring soon, and is sold out, isn't it pretty much already retired? And why only give restocking info on a portion of the sold out items? If they want to restock them, offer a timeline. If they don't want to restock, pull the listing.

It's the vague middle-ground that is annoying.

Edited February 3, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Faefrost]

Maybe your reasoning makes sense for some customers, but probably not for others like me. I can't understand the benefit, under my point of view, under the point of view of someone that wants to buy a Lego set (otherwise, why would I visit the website?), to find in Lego website sets that I cannot buy. I understand that by seeing some sold out sets, I may be interested in something similar but chances are higher that I will get upset because, since I have seen it, now I have the desire to have it, but I can't, and what if I cannot find anything similar that is not sold out? If I had not seen it, I would not be wanting it, then I would probably be happy with something else. You know, out of sight, out of mind!

You said that " ... the absolute worst thing a merchant or manufacturer can typically do is make something just simply disappear..." but I would say that the worst thing is to make the product become a ghost, something that you can see but you can't touch.

The one thing that Lego does that I think is fair and thoughtful is to label the products that are about to retire with the "Retiring Soon" status. But, since they don't do this for all products, some vanish without previous notice, then the fairness and wisdom of the idea also disappears, because you know that you cannot trust that Lego will always mark the retiring products as such. If you can't trust for some, you cannot trust for anyone because you never know...

It should be phases. For sale, out of stock (still for sale, just be patient), retiring soon (still for sale but you'd better buy it now or never) and sold out (never again for sale), then sold out status should go away after, let's say, a couple of weeks. Then, if you look for some set that was supposed to be there and is no more, you know that it is gone for good.

Trust me. You are NOT the normal customer. And typical retail practices are not built entirely with you in mind. Also trust me. "Retiring Soon" and the product disa[earing from the web site are triggered by dates set by th eproduct manager (or whatever the Lego title for the job is). "Out of Stock" and "Sold Out" seem to come from inventory control. And are more automated. I suspect that Out of Stock is used when more product is definitely known to be in the pipeline somewhere. Sold Out is used when they do not yet know if more will become available. It is likely when you see 'Sold Out" that there are no production orders to make new sets. But T:G will often shift product from one area to another depending on demand. So S@H may get a pallet of the given set back from a distribution hub for the Lego Brand stores, if they perceive an excess there. It is not unheard of for a product to go in and out of Sold Out status before being finally retired.

[Vee]

Trust me. You are NOT the normal customer....

I think we agree in something now, but I am no further than 2 standard deviations from the mean.