Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) After sending a dozen emails to the legal department and not getting any responses back over Lego's legal department pulling my Porsche instructions from Ebay, today something even stranger occurred... Almost 2 years ago my wife was playing around on zazzle.com (A website where you can design custom shirts, business cards,etc..) and she made a few shirts for my website and posted them publically for other people to view.. Today she received an email from zazzle informing her that 2 shirts had been removed due to a conflict of ownership... As you can clearly see below NEITHER of the shirts said LEGO on them anywhere, in fact one of them only had text on it... The image violations were included with each email to her and I have posted them along with the messages she received... She actually forgot that these shirt designs were even up on that zazzle site and until today, and I never even knew they existed for the public to see... Message my wife sent to zazzle and their response... Now what I would like to know is how either of these in anyway belong to Lego... And more so, if these are a violation, how are shirt makers out there printing and selling Lego related shirts..? If Lego is now claiming ownership of property that is unquestionably not theirs, then how about they also send me a couple hundred dollars because the 2014 fees on my website are due... Edited November 8, 2013 by Paul Boratko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lego Otaku Posted November 8, 2013 That is strange. Neither looks like they had anything to do with LEGO and it's a violation of LEGO rights??? I'd like to see LEGO explain this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 That is strange. Neither looks like they had anything to do with LEGO and it's a violation of LEGO rights??? I'd like to see LEGO explain this one. And like I said, there was nothing on the shirt that said Lego anywhere, in fact if you try and create a shirt with a corporate Logo or name they will deny it before it can even be created and posted... I have made dozens of custom shirts there and never had any issues with anything being accepted... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L@go Posted November 8, 2013 That sounds absolutely ridiculous. It's like a manufacturer of a specific modeling compund - like Play-Doh - should deny anybody the right to their own pictures of anything made from that particular material. And that's the actual image of your car. The other one? One hundred percent unfathomable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 And for the record, you CANNOT add the word LEGO into the Tags search... The system automatically deletes it... HERE are all of the shirts that my wife made last year... Now why would Lego pick out 2 random products out of all of these and leave all of these other ones there..? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fugazi Posted November 8, 2013 I'm moving your topics to the Embassy, where specific problems involving TLG are discussed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faefrost Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) Were any of these in any way linked or referenced from your e-bay store? This still feels like an almost automated mechanism that keyed on the unclear or poor wording of your e-bay auction, and may have followed a trail from there. Probably with the minimal over site of a junior grade clerk in TLG's legal IP office. Corporations don't generally police the web for their IP anymore. It's all bot driven, with automated form notices. And often automated responses to them from third parties such as E-bay. It looks like the claimed violation was the search tags and not so much the product images themselves. And yeah, if you had Lego, CuuSoo or Technic as search tags that probably is something they would legitimately flag on. And it makes it astonishingly easy for them to find. You hung a sign on your products and auctions screaming LEGO to search engines. If the actual product being sold is not actual Lego products they will take issue with this. Edited November 8, 2013 by Faefrost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darkdragon Posted November 8, 2013 I don't see anything in those letters that states it is LEGO that made the claim, did I miss it or are you jumping to conclusion on that part? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 Were any of these in any way linked or referenced from your e-bay store? This still feels like an almost automated mechanism that keyed on the unclear or poor wording of your e-bay auction, and may have followed a trail from there. Probably with the minimal over site of a junior grade clerk in TLG's legal IP office. Corporations don't generally police the web for their IP anymore. It's all bot driven, with automated form notices. And often automated responses to them from third parties such as E-bay. It looks like the claimed violation was the search tags and not so much the product images themselves. And yeah, if you had Lego, CuuSoo or Technic as search tags that probably is something they would legitimately flag on. And it makes it astonishingly easy for them to find. You hung a sign on your products and auctions screaming LEGO to search engines. If the actual product being sold is not actual Lego products they will take issue with this. No, these were not linked to Ebay in any way... I don't see anything in those letters that states it is LEGO that made the claim, did I miss it or are you jumping to conclusion on that part? Look again... It's right there in the response email from someone named Mike... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darkdragon Posted November 8, 2013 Look again... It's right there in the response email from someone named Mike... thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 thanks LOL.. I didn't see it right away either when my wife forwarded me this stuff... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OriginalJK555 Posted November 8, 2013 I would resubmit those 2 shirts to Zazzle without any reference to Lego in your description or tags and see if Lego demands their removal again. If there is no reference to them anywhere, then the legal department is targeting you for some reason, to which the only way you may get an answer is to call them directly or email them directly. On an off note...I love that Porsche design! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balrog Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) I am not sure, but wasn't there something about transmitting the copyright for Cuusoo submitted models to TLG? Need to read the EULA egain. edit: Just looked that up, it's just the production and marketing rights that are transferred to TLG. Edited November 8, 2013 by Balrog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lightningtiger Posted November 8, 2013 I might be able to understand the second T-shirt design been turned down, but the first T-shirt has no reference to Lego......period ! We live in a strange world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faefrost Posted November 8, 2013 It wasn't the products themselves, that he was flagged on LT. It was something in the search tags or product descriptions that referenced Lego or a TLG trademark. (Maybe Technic?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingstop Posted November 8, 2013 I read your other threads and wonder if someone outside of TLG is giving you hassel and impersonating them? Legal depts can be huge massive beasts but it does seem strange that there is no attempt to return calls etc. and places like eBay and zazzle are probBly not going to overly check a take down request Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) My wife said the only tags that the designs had were Crowkillers and Supercars... if you do a search for "Technic" there are 4 pages of alternate items that come up including ones for Technics record players and mechanic stuff... In the original messages sent to her the issue was something in the design with the text or picture and there was a photo attached, then when she got a response from "Mike" he gave her a list of things that could have also contributed to the violation... She has since deleted everything from Zazzle and I have deleted my 3 Cuusoo projects... I read your other threads and wonder if someone outside of TLG is giving you hassel and impersonating them? Legal depts can be huge massive beasts but it does seem strange that there is no attempt to return calls etc. and places like eBay and zazzle are probBly not going to overly check a take down request I don't think that is the case, but I guess that you never know... I have now had 2 situations in under 3 weeks with Lego's Legal department removing things.. Could it just be a coincidence? Edited November 8, 2013 by Paul Boratko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingstop Posted November 8, 2013 Coincidence possibly But this does seem targeted. If it was a change of policy I suspect others might also be reporting things... But that it is against crow killers does seem more like a grudge and that is unlikely in TLG unless perhaps there is a specific legal bid with issues. Hence why I felt it was more likely to be a troll impersonating rather than a real TLG issue However the embassy ambassadors might be able to shed more light to you privately Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) As far as the Zazzle thing goes, we really don't care about it anyways, but would like to know why... There are so many people out there using Lego's company to their advantage whether it be knock off merchandise, stolen merchandise, or some other schemes, but yet they have targeted me for some petty stuff like this..? And stuff that doesn't really even concern them... Edited November 8, 2013 by Paul Boratko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meatman Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) It wasn't the products themselves, that he was flagged on LT. It was something in the search tags or product descriptions that referenced Lego or a TLG trademark. (Maybe Technic?) Even if he had Technic as a tag, I don't see what law was being broken. Lego certainly does not own that word or have it trademarked. They may own the Logo and font and complain if he were using it which is obviously not the case here. I would say the only ground Lego would have to stand on is if the trademarked word Lego were being used in front of Technic. If you do a google search for Technic, the first website that comes up isn't even Lego related. Seems highly unlikely that this is just a coincidence Paul, I would say you are being targeted for some obscure reason which like I said in your other thread does not make sense since you are undoubtedly helping to sell Lego's product for them. I also doubt that Lego was trying to do you a favor by reporting someone else who they suspected wasn't you and was using your images for shirts. And getting back to Ebay. I just did a search for Custom Lego and 9,000 items came up. This means 9,000 items did not come from Lego in their current condition and are available for sale and are all using the Lego name to sell them. Now how could this one particular person be picked out of all of these and have his listing removed for instructions? And the kicker is that it is Technic, which is only what? 12 percent of Lego's sales? I have deleted my 3 Cuusoo projects... At this point that was probably the best thing that you could do. Edited November 8, 2013 by Meatman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) Even if he had Technic as a tag, I don't see what law was being broken. Lego certainly does not own that word or have it trademarked. They may own the Logo and font and complain if he were using it which is obviously not the case here. I would say the only ground Lego would have to stand on is if the trademarked word Lego were being used in front of Technic. This is what i had always thought as well... Technic on it's own as a TAG means nothing without "LEGO" to go with it... Nothing that my wife made had any reference to TLG in any way, shape, or form.. I always thought that Lego and I were on the same page, but I guess I was wrong... Apparently they think that I am stealing pennies out of their pockets... Meanwhile there are blatant knock-off products being hocked on Ebay on a daily basis and nothing is done... Edited November 8, 2013 by Paul Boratko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faefrost Posted November 8, 2013 It's probably not so much that nothing is done, as it is that those knock off vendors, because they know they are blatantly violating the IP, have learned to be much better at avoiding the automated copyright violation bots in how they word and present things. Whereas you in your innocence and hobbiest nature would never have given some of the subtle flags a moments thought. I still think you are being tripped up by some sort of mostly autonomous C&D bot. If it was someone actively after you for whatever reason they would have gone after your far better known Vampire GT. And I don't think that even the most litigious or overly aggressive human enforcer would have sent a C&D over that first listed T shirt. A random e-bay sweep probably hit on the title of the Porche. Which might have triggered Crowkiller being added to the database, and thus it found the others. And it hit on something non obvious buried in headers someplace. Just my theory. Most of this sort of thing these days is caused by automation, beuracracy, and shear incomprehensible volume, rather than deliberate intent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) It's probably not so much that nothing is done, as it is that those knock off vendors, because they know they are blatantly violating the IP, have learned to be much better at avoiding the automated copyright violation bots in how they word and present things. Whereas you in your innocence and hobbiest nature would never have given some of the subtle flags a moments thought. I still think you are being tripped up by some sort of mostly autonomous C&D bot. If it was someone actively after you for whatever reason they would have gone after your far better known Vampire GT. And I don't think that even the most litigious or overly aggressive human enforcer would have sent a C&D over that first listed T shirt. A random e-bay sweep probably hit on the title of the Porche. Which might have triggered Crowkiller being added to the database, and thus it found the others. And it hit on something non obvious buried in headers someplace. Just my theory. Most of this sort of thing these days is caused by automation, beuracracy, and shear incomprehensible volume, rather than deliberate intent. You know, everything that you have said here is more than likely 100% accurate and may very well be what is happening... However, the one thing that has me a bit confused is why won't anyone from Lego return an email to me..? I've sent 13 to the email address that I was provided which was connected to the branch of the company that pulled down my Porsche instructions and have still not heard anything back after 2 weeks... Someone has to at least read one of them... Edited November 8, 2013 by Paul Boratko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kermit Posted November 8, 2013 My advice is to contact a lawyer and have the lawyer send a statement to lego demanding answers. It has been my experience that once someone or a company hears and see that a lawyer is involved in a particular matter pertaining to them , they then tend to be more cooperative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1974 Posted November 9, 2013 Paul, you need to speak with someone who actually makes the shots within TLG .. right now you're being 'automated' I'm dissapointed if the ambassadors cannot point you in the right direction? Afterall that is what Kim (and many others) where hired to do .. (so I've been told) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
