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A proposal


205 replies to this topic  – Started by kurigan , Jun 12 2011 01:17 AM

#26 Phred

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:26 PM

View PostHorry, on 13 June 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:

I've read your rule-theories and find them to be most fascinating and impressing. However, while I find these suggestions to be incredibly accurate, I created my suggestions for the sake of playability. It took a bunch of highly organized, well trained geeks for Star Trek like my RPG group half a year to realize, that sometimes it's more fun to simply add a rule than searching for the power coupling that would make it possible for the phasers to be more powerful in that tank.
That is a good point about keeping things simple.  My current intention for the derived sailing speed formula is for the use of an ESPG MOD with the use of Excel instead of pen & paper or an online game.  So a complex formula will be will automatically give a max. sailing speed without the user of the sheet knowing how this value was derived. Just thought I would let you know about what I have done so to see if you or anyone else were interested.

View PostHorry, on 13 June 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:

As for the officers: my bad, I didn't want to implicate that there are only four officers but only made rules for those  :blush:
As for the number of officers for ship, I don't believe the gaming rules need to state a limit to the number officers allowed on a vessel.  However, there could be rules that state that officers don't assist with the reloading of cannons, they motivate and coordinate the gun crew and aim the cannon.

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 13 June 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

There is no rule stated to be able to play, you must follow some building technique.
In ESPG there is a limit to build with only 16-wide, pre-fab hulls if you want a larger, faster ship.  I believe SkaforHire is stating that he does not want such limitations in the "Horry Game" rules.

View PostHorry, on 13 June 2011 - 09:21 PM, said:

Okay, now that gives me somethin' to work with. If the folks around here are so deep into the whole stuff that talking about formulas is no problem, then I love it! Just didn't want to scare people away.
I'd start programming a calculator for the ships based on Phred's formula if he gives permission to do so.
I have no problem with others using my formula.  :thumbup:  I'm not worried about keeping it a secrete or anything.  
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#27 Tazmaniac

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:45 PM

Horry knows what he's talking about "less is more" when playing online RPG. Now I just need to finish my ships update.

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#28 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:38 AM

View PostPhred, on 13 June 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

In ESPG there is a limit to build with only 16-wide, pre-fab hulls if you want a larger, faster ship.  I believe SkaforHire is stating that he does not want such limitations in the "Horry Game" rules.
Got it. Though we are not talking about ESPG, but rather we are talking about the Horry Game.  :pir-blush:

#29 Captain Genaro

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:14 AM

Looking over all these rules, I think that it would be a lot of fun but I would also suggest adding several things.

1) Some ships/crews were better at fighting because they had better officers who trained the men to be faster gunners, stricter discipline etc.

2) How would weather/ night play into effect? I might be able to escape an opponent who is beating me if the weather turns in my favor or if I can lose him in the dark.

I really like where this is going.

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 13 June 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

(1)
(4)
(3)
(2)

I hope you see my logic here.
Capt.JohnPaul

1,4,3,2. Interesting logic:pir-tongue:.

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#30 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:27 PM

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 14 June 2011 - 04:14 AM, said:

1,4,3,2. Interesting logic:pir-tongue:.
Oh shut up!  :wall:  I just copied and pasted in the order I wanted!

Genaro, for 1, how about we make a rule where everyone is equally trained. Or redcoats do a bit more damage then bluecoats, and bluecoats reload faster then redcoats or something. And 2, I think Horry said the weather would be chosen before the battle and would remain the same, so I assume it will be the same dor weather and time of day. Besides, ships have lanterns to see you. Or we all wear eye-patches all day, and at night switch it to the other side, and then there is night vision!  :excited:

#31 Cap'n Crunch

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:36 PM

Set a limit to the number of ships in the game. For e.g. one flagship of any type, one brig, two galleons, two schrooners, three sloops, five other ships.
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#32 Horry

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:57 PM

A limit would be an interesting idea, I'll think about that.

Folks, I have rewritten and re-organized the rules. Would you investigate if it meets your approval? I'll start on doing a paragraph on translating the ships into the game as soon as Phred's picture of his formula re-appears. I cannot see it right now for the server seems to be down  :pir_bawling:

There's also an example map and I'd like to know whether you think these graphics would be good enough to let your ships float around on them.

PS: If some of you have baseplates from the classic pirates series, it would be really useful if you could make aerial pictures of them and upload them somewhere. I can only find shipwreck island 16x16 and this one I already have. But I'd like to include all baseplates in the maps.
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#33 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:32 PM

View PostHorry, on 14 June 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

Folks, I have rewritten and re-organized the rules. Would you investigate if it meets your approval? I'll start on doing a paragraph on translating the ships into the game as soon as Phred's picture of his formula re-appears. I cannot see it right now for the server seems to be down  :pir_bawling:
I have a question. If our captains die, there is penalties, but how do we know when one dies?
Also, do you/can you upload a template so we can make our own ship stats? Like this:
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And for the Vesta, how again did you come up with 1500 health? Thanks.
Capt.JohnPaul

EDIT: Also, how did you get the sail and beam reach things?

Edited by Capt.JohnPaul, 14 June 2011 - 01:33 PM.


#34 Horry

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 10:54 AM

aye, good questions.
I am workin' on a small set of rules for the game hosts that have a randomgenerator as a basis. If damage is taken there's the chance that the program (in basic a 20 side dice) will give out
number one = captain's blown to pieces!

concerning uploading the template: I'd really like to but I want to finish the rules first so you don't have to do it all over again. For example I will try to make new rules regarding the speed (according to Phred's formula). Until now, I had just given every type of ship (rating system) a fixed speed.

The same for the health points: there is a sheet that contains numbers that seemed appropriate to me for the different types of ships. They are based on how much damage by 24 pounders can be done before the ship would be probably destroyed. If you add additional details to your ship that make it reasonable to give it more health points, then they can be included (such as strengthened gallery for example)

gun brig: 500
sloop O' war: 700
Post ship: 1500
6th rate: 2000
5th rate: 2500
4th rate: 3000
3rd rate: 3500
2nd rate: 4500
1st rate: 5000
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#35 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 01:02 PM

View PostHorry, on 15 June 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

aye, good questions.
I am workin' on a small set of rules for the game hosts that have a randomgenerator as a basis. If damage is taken there's the chance that the program (in basic a 20 side dice) will give out
number one = captain's blown to pieces!


The same for the health points: there is a sheet that contains numbers that seemed appropriate to me for the different types of ships. They are based on how much damage by 24 pounders can be done before the ship would be probably destroyed. If you add additional details to your ship that make it reasonable to give it more health points, then they can be included (such as strengthened gallery for example)
D&D! Hilarious!  :pir_laugh2:  I like the 20 sided dice that decides if your captain dies. For the health, that makes sense. So I assume it is the same kind of thing for sails?? (Brigs can move x yards/meters in y seconds, and each turn represents z seconds/minutes)

#36 Phred

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 01:10 PM

View PostHorry, on 15 June 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

concerning uploading the template: I'd really like to but I want to finish the rules first so you don't have to do it all over again. For example I will try to make new rules regarding the speed (according to Phred's formula). Until now, I had just given every type of ship (rating system) a fixed speed.
If I would have known that Majhost would have stopped working the day after I place a pic of the formula on the site, I wouldn't have posted it there. :pir_bawling:
Will have to wait until tonight to look on my computer to post it as just text.

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#37 Horry

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:06 PM

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 15 June 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:

D&D! Hilarious!  :pir_laugh2:  I like the 20 sided dice that decides if your captain dies. For the health, that makes sense. So I assume it is the same kind of thing for sails?? (Brigs can move x yards/meters in y seconds, and each turn represents z seconds/minutes)

aye, but I want to make it more custom so you can add the speficic speed of your very own ship, not just the class.

a turn would represent about an hour and a square roughly 5x5 km


View PostPhred, on 15 June 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

If I would have known that Majhost would have stopped working the day after I place a pic of the formula on the site, I wouldn't have posted it there. :pir_bawling:
Will have to wait until tonight to look on my computer to post it as just text.


Well, that's what I call bad luck!  :pir-grin:

I'll try to finish it tonight, then. Everybody start taking aerial photos of their ships...
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#38 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 03:02 PM

View PostHorry, on 15 June 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

aye, but I want to make it more custom so you can add the speficic speed of your very own ship, not just the class.
a turn would represent about an hour and a square roughly 5x5 km
Ok, so there is only 24 turns before we all get tired?  :pir-tongue:

View PostHorry, on 15 June 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

I'll try to finish it tonight, then. Everybody start taking aerial photos of their ships...
Let's get the action started! Wonder who'll I face... got a gun brig and sloop of war. (moded BBB with now 5 cannons and 8 gun ship with two mounted blunderbusses and an overcrouded crew  :pir-blush: )

#39 Horry

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 03:24 PM

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 15 June 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Ok, so there is only 24 turns before we all get tired?  :pir-tongue:


Let's get the action started! Wonder who'll I face... got a gun brig and sloop of war. (moded BBB with now 5 cannons and 8 gun ship with two mounted blunderbusses and an overcrouded crew  :pir-blush: )


Harr, that would be a bit too lenient towards our crews, wouldn't it? Battles of that time could last hours or just an hour, depending on the speed of wind and the maneuvers. What we could include is a change of day- and nighttime during longer games.

And: I'll need to finish the sails for Centaur or else I won't be able to participate in my own game  :pir-hmpf_bad:
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#40 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 07:32 PM

Where should I post pictures of my ships?/When? I'll tell more details of it later.

#41 SkaForHire

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:40 PM

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 13 June 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

Are you getting the posts confused? When you say "rules" and "game" like that, it sounds like you are getting an idea that is a mixture of kurigan and Horry. Kurigan was the one that wanted a census taken and to compare ships based on certain rules or techniques. Horry is creating a game, there is no rules on technique, just rules on how much damage a certain cannon would do, or how far a ship could sail in 1 turn. There is no rule stated to be able to play, you must follow some building technique. This also would be fair because we wouldn't have a fleet against a smaller fleet, I would like to establish brackets were brigs go against brigs and so on. So we wouldn't have a first rate attack a 6th rate. Each battle is fair unless the players announce otherwise. ("How about we see what happens when my frigate attacks your frigate AND brig at the same time!")


I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I am just saying I would hate to discourage a certain type of building technique; either because a game was created or the board adopted an "accepted ship building practice."

My main point for the game idea is, if someone is building a game, they should just run it and not discuss it for two months with everyone else. That is the best way to design a game in my opinion. I have designed a few games in my earlier career, and this seems to work the best.

Going back to your post -On top of brackets, there should be a round robin or a season that lasts a month (maybe even with direct challenges) and then a playoff bracket at the end to determine champion of the season. That might spark me to actually break my ships out of storage and build something new.  

To reiterate, I am not saying we shouldn't have a game, I just don't want to see something become so dominant that people really don't build with their full imagination anymore.
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#42 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:51 PM

View PostSkaForHire, on 15 June 2011 - 09:40 PM, said:

To reiterate, I am not saying we shouldn't have a game, I just don't want to see something become so dominant that people really don't build with their full imagination anymore.
Well, the way Horry is planning it you wont see an actual technique, it is a birds I view so you wont see close up details. Even if you did, it is just a game.  :pir-wink:

#43 Cap'n Crunch

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:13 AM

Is there an ammo limit?
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#44 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:41 PM

View PostCap, on 16 June 2011 - 07:13 AM, said:

Is there an ammo limit?
Good idea. And Horry, if each turn is 1 hour, it actually takes 5 hours to reload a 24 pounder cannon?  :pir-tongue:

Where should I post pictures of my ships?/When? (Just in case you didn't want to scroll down to my post 4 posts ago...  :pir-blush:

#45 Horry

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:40 PM

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 16 June 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Good idea. And Horry, if each turn is 1 hour, it actually takes 5 hours to reload a 24 pounder cannon?  :pir-tongue:

You-are-absolutely-right  :pir-sad2: What was I thinking? Okay, I'll think about this.

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 16 June 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Where should I post pictures of my ships?/When? (Just in case you didn't want to scroll down to my post 4 posts ago...  :pir-blush:

The where is a good question. I asked Dragonator if he'd like the Pirates game to be hosted in the wargames section and so far I got no answer. Considering this, I'll ask the pirates crew if were alright to play the games around here. If you could upload the pictures on flickr or alike and pm me the link, I'll shop them clean and scale them ready for you.

There still some minor issues with the frikkin' speed-sheeds, so I'll need a couple of hours more, sorry. Why is ist that everytime I do somethin' like this game, work keeps gettin' in the way?  :pir-classic:
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#46 Tazmaniac

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:13 PM

I'll take this to the crew and see if we can get a place for the game to be played.Posted Image

Edited by TazManiac, 16 June 2011 - 04:14 PM.

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#47 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 06:25 PM

View PostHorry, on 16 June 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

The where is a good question. I asked Dragonator if he'd like the Pirates game to be hosted in the wargames section and so far I got no answer. Considering this, I'll ask the pirates crew if were alright to play the games around here. If you could upload the pictures on flickr or alike and pm me the link, I'll shop them clean and scale them ready for you.
PM sent, and hurry Horry, get the speed done!  :pir_laugh2:  No rush, take your time.  :pir-wink:

#48 Cap'n Crunch

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:14 AM

The game is a promising idea. Perhaps you could post some profiles of sets from LEGO.

Edited by Cap'n Crunch, 17 June 2011 - 11:15 AM.

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#49 Tazmaniac

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:52 AM

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#50 Horry

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:16 PM

Okay, much work has been done. Phred and I have discussed many possibilities for the speed-matter and I think we have come to a working solution. I will post the final rules today.

There'll be additional rules for having marines on board.

The problem with the recharging time has been dealt with. The cannons are now weaker, as are the health points. But smaller cannons can be fired more times/per turn while bigger calibers have lesser shots per round. I have finished the templates for the ships and will upload them soon.
There will be three documents in total. One *.doc sheet that can be opened with Word or OpenOffice. This one is the ship template. The next one is a pdf document containing the rules. The third one will be an excel-sheet (can be opened with OpenOffice, too). This one contains tables and formulas in order to make it easy for you to calculate your speed and your health.

Taz: If you could do the baseplate, that would be brilliant!Also lookin' forward to the Hell Hound.

If you folks want to do some preparations, measure your ships in terms of:

Sailing area square sails
Sailing area lateen sails

Length and beam of the ship's main hull
weight (just take the ship and step on a scale, that's how I did it.

and don't forget to count your crew  :pir-grin:
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