Megabloks Pyrates and Pirates of the Caribbean Sets

[Akkhraziel]

Apparently Megablocks is getting in on the pirates actions, but the figures are more sized and akin to the 4+ or even Mini-Mates Figure sizes.

How..odd.

http://www.megabloks.com/en/products/brows...subCat=25&lId=0

Akkh

[Mister Phes]

Congratuations MegaBlok! You've now joined the ranks of BestBlok and Koko!

These sets look to have the same sized bricks as the 4+ Pirate theme, except the MegaBlok versions are far more detailed, making them look more like play sets rather than construction toys. Still most of te MegaBlok sets have an 8+ rating so they obviously believe Pirates appeal to the older children.

Interesting find Akkhraziel!

[eDeevo]

They already have a large display for these at my local TRU (saw it last week). Phes is right, it looks to be more of a playset than a construction toy (as the main parts are one big piece). The look okay, but they still aren't LEGO... although they do beat the socks off the 4+ LEGO Pirates sets ;)

Life is Good.

[Mister Phes]

Yeah, I think its the level of intricate detail on the pieces which justifies their size. But I'm definitely NOT suggesting that LEGO do them same thing for the future of their Pirate products. Keep the simplicity in the detail of LEGO pieces, but increase the complexity of the design of the sets they belong to. I.e. No more of these over-sized specialised pieces!

[eDeevo]

Yeah, I think its the level of intricate detail on the pieces which justifies their size. But I'm definitely NOT suggesting that LEGO do them same thing for the future of their Pirate products. Keep the simplicity in the detail of LEGO pieces, but increase the complexity of the design of the sets they belong to. I.e. No more of these over-sized specialised pieces!

I don't know what it is about you recently phes, but it is difficult to argue with anything you've been saying... once again I agree completely, LEGO needs to keep it simple & just design better sets... :-D

Life is Good.

[Mister Phes]

I just remember back to the late 80's to mid 90's and think what LEGO was doing and the things I liked about what they were doing. Obviously they've got to find new and different ways to do things, but the idea is to improve in the process and somewhere in the mid 90's they stopped improving... Then started going backwards...

[The Middleman]

With a few exceptions (Dump Truck, Durmstrang Ship), this year's line has been fantastic. Apart from those two, are there any that REALLY look bad this year? I mean really, think about it.

[Mister Phes]

I thought you were ok with the Durmstrang Ship, Bloody Jay.

I wouldn't have said this year's offerings were fantastic, but they are definitely an improvement over some of the sets in the past few years. However, I'm not really qualified to make that assessment as I haven't bought any of the sets. From reading the various threads regarding the latest sets I've observered the older builders would prefer if there was a further push to reduce the number of specialised pireces and use more generic pieces in clever ways - like LEGO used to.

Take the Unholy Lama's opinion for example. He hadn't seen LEGO since the mid 90's and all of a sudden he has these latest sets in his face. The first thing he sees in Town, Alpha Team, Knights Kingdom are all the oversized pieces. They're definitely a set in the right direction in regards to returning to this so call "Golden Age" of LEGO. But there's still quite a way to go.

Of course the younger builders will have a different perspective as they've grown up with these larger pieces. so they're more used to them. And that's probably in their favour since LEGO is aiming their product more towards them, rather than the older builders.

[eDeevo]

With a few exceptions (Dump Truck, Durmstrang Ship), this year's line has been fantastic. Apart from those two, are there any that REALLY look bad this year? I mean really, think about it.

Perhaps I am being too picky, but I really don't associate with the newer sets. Many of them vaguely resemble those from the past (my 'golden age' of LEGO). I think it is a combination of too many special pieces, too many colors, & less & less piece couts costing more & more money that all contribute to me not appreciating LEGO as much as I used to. I still cannot accept the colorful Castle sets, Bionicle never really worked for me, lisences that just don't work (NBA, anyone?), and the fact that the Duplo sets are beginning to outshine the system sets... I just don't look at a catalog now with the longing that I used to... Strangely enough, I like many of the earlier SW sets much more than the current ones as well... maybe its just me...

Life is Good.

[The Middleman]

Well, first of all, by this year, I include:

- Fire/Police/Construction City

- Revenge of the Sith

- Knight's Kingdom: Ankoria

- Harry Potter

- Vikings

- Sandcrawler

Now, I can't attest to Harry Potter or Vikings yet, but that graveyard sure as hell looks fantastic, and Vikings are... they're freakin' Vikings. What else do you need to know? Oh, and re: Durmstrang Ship - the hull is awful, the rest is great.

However, the rest - basically EVERYONE agrees that they're ALL terrific sets. (possible exceptions: Police Motorcycle, Dump Truck, Durmstrang Ship). Vladek's Dark Fortress is ALMOST a throwback to classic Castle, the Sandcrawler is just about ENTIRELY brick-built with ONE specialized piece (it's a really big brick, by the way), Revenge of the Sith has incredible building techniques, and City's sets physically resemble sets from the CLASSIC Town series.

As far as the Unholy Lama goes... he sounds pretty grumpy. I don't know what catalog he was looking at - if he was looking at 2004 and thought the World City was horrible, he's right. If he thought Harry Potter from 2004 was awful, he's wrong. They're great. Alpha Team I can agree with - I don't really count that in 2005, though.

So what's the problem with 2005? It's a huge leap forward, and I think most everybody agrees.

[Mister Phes]

Ok! Now its my turn to agree with Ed! I agree with his perspective.

NBA... Any of those sport themes were hiddeous... How can that be called LEGO?

Ed, have you shared your thoughts about LEGO in SuvieD's "LEGO Revival" thread? Apparently he's going to have our feedback sent to LEGO and apparently they're going to read it.

[The Middleman]

Sports, I agree, were awful. However, that's not particularly recent. See my above post - you might have missed it.

[Mister Phes]

Like I said, I don't own the sets myself so I'm not really in a position to make an accurate assessment. If everyone else is happy with the latest sets, then I don't have a problem with them.

But as far as 4+ Pirates go... That's a different story...

[eDeevo]

Ok!  Now its my turn to agree with Ed!  I agree with his perspective.

NBA...  Any of those sport themes were hiddeous...  How can that be called LEGO?

Ed, have you shared your thoughts about LEGO in SuvieD's "LEGO Revival" thread?  Apparently he's going to have our feedback sent to LEGO and apparently they're going to read it.

No, I have not yet. I will do so immediately... after this post :-D

Bloody Jay-

Like I have said previously (not in this thread, but previously) ,I am optimistic of the direction that TLC is going right now, although I remain realistic that there are certainly more steps that need to be taken. Here are some of the 'issues' I am having with LEGO:

-I have no problems with the new Fire/Police/Construction City sets. Although they are just not that appealing to kids (just ask my daughter, though she seems to like the fire truck, but what kid dosen't? ;) )

-The Revenge of the Sith sets were horrible IMO (except the walker). Too many colors, a lack of pieces, and ships that got rare screen time in the actual film.

-The Knights Kingdom sets... the minifigs are still too colorful, and although the sets look much better than they did the previous year, I refuse to use that as a measure of how well they look now. If these were the first LEGO sets I had ever seen, I would not be impressed with them much (at least not impressed enough to buy them at the prices they are selling for). Oh, and Vladek's Dark Fortress may look nice for the KK line, but it is in no way even "ALMOST a throwback to classic Castle", & some people would take great offense that you'd even make that comparison, not myself (because I am mello), but some people ;)

-The Harry Potter line... I never cared for the books (I read the first two out of curiosity), and the sets look okay, I suppose. But you even have to admit many people have admittedly bought lots of these sets mainly for parts, and it shouldn't be that way...

-The upcoming Vikings line does look good... but LEGO is repeating similar problems... adding essentially worthless items (dragons) to bring up piece count & charge crazy prices for an average set... at least that is what I have seen... & I am more excited about the parts within the sets than the actual sets themselves, again, same problem...

-Lastly, the Sandcrawler set. Now I will probably never buy this set, because it doesn't look that great to me with the odd colors, duplicate minifigs, and large price tag. That being said, the fact that TLC released this set after a great deal of demand from collectors gives me hope that TLC is beginning to listen to the consumer. Which, if the trend continues, we will aid in bringing LEGO back into another 'golden age'...

The truth is, we all love our LEGO, & I am one who hopes that LEGO can get out of this "creative rut" that its been in for a while & start bringing quality sets to us all... I remain optimistic with the sets being released this year that are not being made through licenses (which to me is a greater sign of things to come than Spiderman, Harry Potter, or Star Wars)... & I'm sure you agree... Long live LEGO!

Life is Good.

[Jipay]

-Lastly, the Sandcrawler set. Now I will probably never buy this set, because it doesn't look that great to me with the odd colors, duplicate minifigs, and large price tag. That being said, the fact that TLC released this set after a great deal of demand from collectors gives me hope that TLC is beginning to listen to the consumer. Which, if the trend continues, we will aid in bringing LEGO back into another 'golden age'...

I'm afraid with this set. lego will deduce that the lack of sales is coming from a set that wasn't needed instead of thinking the price could be the main issue.

[Akkhraziel]

-The Revenge of the Sith sets were horrible IMO (except the walker). Too many colors, a lack of pieces, and ships that got rare screen time in the actual film.

This stuck out to me, and I wanted to comment on it. Aren't most of the big fan favorites from Star Wars things that we generally saw only a few glimpses of ? Boba Fett, the A-Wing, and the B-Wing come to mind as I type this. None of those things got a lot of screen time, but they are considered staples and fan favorites. I don't see much change with the episode III stuff. I guess what I'm geting at is that if star wars fans can glom over how cool Boba Fett was from his cameo's in the original trilogy, I'm not concerned if they don't like the Arc_170 cause it didn't get enough time. At the very least, it looks cool.

-The Knights Kingdom sets... the minifigs are still too colorful, and although the sets look much better than they did the previous year, I refuse to use that as a measure of how well they look now. If these were the first LEGO sets I had ever seen, I would not be impressed with them much (at least not impressed enough to buy them at the prices they are selling for). Oh, and Vladek's Dark Fortress may look nice for the KK line, but it is in no way even "ALMOST a throwback to classic Castle", & some people would take great offense that you'd even make that comparison, not myself (because I am mello), but some people ;)

All righty, where to start. As for the minifgs being too colorful, eh, my opinion differs. We have historical precedent for red as a battlefield color, same goes for black, we have fictional basis for green armor (Sir Gawain and the Green Knight) and purple was a color of nobility and high status dating from the Roman Emnpire. I guess the only color I'm not finding much of a basis for is the powder blue...I guess I can't win 'em all.

;)

And as far as the people who would take offense at the comment of the new Vladek's Castle heading back towards what Castle once was...well...this is a fandom. Which means if you asked all of them to explain to you what they thought Castle Lego truly was, you'd get a lot of different answers. I'm willing to bet it would be very difficult to come to a consensus on what sets those fans thought were the best of the castle line, or at the very least you'd hear things like "I really like this set, but it needs...." all throughout the conversation. If the old castles sets are so wonderful, why the constant adage of"It needs" or "Its missing" and what have you. Nostalgia is a powerful thing...and half the time when dealing with collectors its a force you run into, one that says that whatever is new can't be as good as what was.

That having been said...

I'm not really sure what lego can do to compete. As I'm sure some of you are aware, the toy market has been increasingly shrinking over the last few years. Most analysts point to video games as one of the major sources for that shift. The average toyline has a life of a year now a days, and many are pulled before that. Retailers demand new product to hit the shelves...its a mess. And Lego is more or less caught in the middle of it all. Many of the better sets cost as much as a video game, if not more. Competitors such as Mega Bloks make things even worse, as parents in a hurry buy "That building toy with bumps on it" and half of them here don't even check which brand its coming from, only that this bigger set is cheaper than that bigger set. THe toy market is a very, very brutal place right now.

At best, or at its core, I think Lego's best chance is to do something it generally has done, fall into the "Educational Toy" segment that is popular with the more well-to-do parents. Parents that would rather spend more money on better toys, as opposed to the seeking of quantity. I do agree with Ed, that a return to less lincenses is key, as well as a need to perhaps re-establish the brand in someways.

In any event, I've rambled enough on this for now.

Akkh

[eDeevo]

-The Revenge of the Sith sets were horrible IMO (except the walker). Too many colors, a lack of pieces, and ships that got rare screen time in the actual film.

This stuck out to me, and I wanted to comment on it. Aren't most of the big fan favorites from Star Wars things that we generally saw only a few glimpses of ? Boba Fett, the A-Wing, and the B-Wing come to mind as I type this. None of those things got a lot of screen time, but they are considered staples and fan favorites. I don't see much change with the episode III stuff. I guess what I'm geting at is that if star wars fans can glom over how cool Boba Fett was from his cameo's in the original trilogy, I'm not concerned if they don't like the Arc_170 cause it didn't get enough time. At the very least, it looks cool.

You are absolutely correct... My argument about 'rare screen time' was inaccurate... :$ I guess my thinking just goes hand-in-hand with how the recent movies have turned out. I did not like the first two (poor dialogue & one weak actor...*hayden*), and the third was okay, but it just seemed like a big advertisement for the numerous products that Lucas planned on selling. I know he did this as well in the first films, but it seemed like there were so many more different vehicles within the last film & none as noticable as the Millenium Falcon for example... And maybe I'm alone here, but I just don't think many of the sets in the prequels are 'cool' at all (with few exceptions)... or at least not remotely 'cool' compared to the OT vehicles (again, the Millenium Falcon)... It seemed that Lucas went so far overboard with CG at the expense of creativity in the latest films, thats all.

Life is Good.

[Mister Phes]

I don't think much of those turquoised coloured knights in the chess set... That and the design of their helmets make them look like Mighty Morphin Power Rangers...

[The Middleman]

As far as City not appealing to kids, I have to disagree! I've seen plenty of kids ogling the Police Station at my local Toys R Us.

Now, you seem to have a serious problem with Revenge of the Sith, and I don't see why! The screen time thing is unimportant - if it's a good model, who cares? Now, I think the only two sets in ROTS that weren't great were the two Wookiee sets, both of which, like most recent sets, are great parts packs. The Clone Scout Walker, Tri-Droid Fighter, and Clone Turbo Tank used very cool construction techniques and closely parallelled the vehicles from the film. The JSF, Darth Vader Transformation, and Ultimate Lightsaber Duel (less so that) were nothing particularly special, but still (in my opinion) far above the level of quality of the Episode II sets (save AT-TE and RGS). We finally got troopers with different markings, which was a huge step forward.

Re Knight's Kingdom: everyone that has responded to my review of Vladek's Dark Fortress is heartily impressed. Now, about the 'almost a throwback to classic Castle' - I said almost. It's still not there. The tacky 'siege weapons' and the <insert that tiresome argument> piece here and there (the 8-wide castle wall pieces, 8-wide door piece, Vladek mask, and swords at entrance, basically) hold it back from reaching that. It's also does not have four walls when folded together, nor does it have a baseplate. However - the construction is heavily brick-based, sort of reminiscent of Ninja. While Ninja is not classic Castle, it's definitely a midpoint between modern Castle and classic. Now, I can't say the same for the rest of KK2 - save for Scorpion Prison Cage, which is good at best, the rest are pretty horrible. STILL - largest castle set ever and higher-caliber construction is definitely a good road to be on.

I actually like the Harry Potter books a lot... oh well. It's a matter of taste, I guess. Anyway, yes, a lot of people buy them for the parts - amongst the adults, at least, which account for a minimal percentage of sales. And what's wrong with that? If they're not Harry Potter fans, I can't see them running out to the store to get the latest one to complete their Hogwarts diorama, so why not for the parts? The models on the third line were fantastic and used abundant useful pieces, notably Hogwarts Castle and Hagrid's Hut (can you cay 'castle-style corners'?). I saw no problem with the previous line and see only one with the upcoming line.

Vikings - a historical line is definitely a step in the right direction. Now, the dragons and 'beasts' may be tacky, but I'm sure people will find a use for those wings and dragon heads. The fortress and ship look fabulous - not to mention the abundant minifigures.

Sandcrawler... ah, the sandcrawler. I really don't see why people are getting caught up in the model with this one. It looks like it looked in the film - a heap of junk - and some very fine junk it is. It's HUGELY above piece/price value and the pieces are fantastic! It's functional, fun, and sturdy. As for the mottled colors that get on everyone's nerves, it really does look a lot better in person. The price tag is very good for US citizens, although I can't say the same for Europeans. Again, I see no problem with this set save for the vehicle's inherent ugliness.

[Mister Phes]

In the LEGO Revival thread Akkhraziel made the following statement:

Also, to put my opinion in, as much as I'm starting to get interested in pirates, I think right now would be the worst possible time for Lego to try to launch a new pirates line. Maybe after Meg Bloks Pyrates line leaves the shelves, but not at the same time. The fact that Lego is more expensive and would be selling a similiar product would create a situation ripe for disaster.

To which I've responded

It seems you believe MegaBloks Pyrates is going to be a success beyond all believe and LEGO doesn't stand a chance of competing. I must dispute this because the MegaBlok Pyrate sets look more like play sets than actual construction toys - they appear to have less connectivity and constructability than Duplo sets (We've covered this more thoroughly in the thread in which you brought them to our attention).

Also the prices are rather comparable... The latest Pirate ship 7070 Captain Redbeard's Pirate Ship costs US$40 while the two Pyrate ships cost US$35-US$45 and US$50-US$60.

Also of note other construction toy brands such as BestBlok and Coko have Pirate sets, but that's not preventing MegaBloks from getting in on the act. MegaBloks already have a Castle like theme that doesn't seem to effect Knights Kingdom. Besides, these Pyrate sets resemble PlayMobil (and similiar brands) products closer than the 4+ Pirates theme, and if LEGO was to release the kind of SYSTEM theme we're demanding, it would almost be a completely different product.

I don't think I need to juxtapose a SYSTEM Pirate set against a MegaBlok Pyrates set so we can see how different they are...

What does everyone else think?

8-)

[Mr. Lego-builder]

However they make it, it won't ever come close to what LEGO has to offer. (Or at least I hope not!)

As we all do, I hate all of TLC's competitors no matter what they make.

[Mister Phes]

If you've seen the pictures then you can see how they've made it. The next step is decide how it compares to LEGO and whether you think its any good or not.

[Mr. Lego-builder]

I just went on their company website (to the Pyrates page) and in my opinion, it is still not LEGO quality. There's barely ANY tranditional plastic building blocks. However, there is much impressing detail without the traditional blocks, but this is not how contruction toys are supposed to be, as these highly customized hulls and parts are most of the time not compatible with other sets. This is a perfect example of what I mean by both aspects.

Note that if you click the "Detailed View" button, you can clearly see that there is a light-up hull (reminds you of TLC's mistakes? |-/ ) and there are cannons that can fire a projectile that is similar to the rubber ones that TLC uses.

[eDeevo]

Okay, this is the last time I will address this (because it seems you didn't understand my points at all in some instances)...

As far as City not appealing to kids, I have to disagree!  I've seen plenty of kids ogling the Police Station at my local Toys R Us.

& I have seen plenty of kids looking at the LEGO aisle at TRU & heading straight for the Designer sets or the *@#!@% Megabloks... & my daughter (who is a child) doesn't seem to care for them (except the firetruck... ;) )... Also, I have to point out that Megabloks has had a bigger section than LEGO at my local Wal-Mart & Target for over two years now, & LEGO seems to be the only one of the two that ends up on clearance at the end of every season because of unsold inventory...

Now, you seem to have a serious problem with Revenge of the Sith, and I don't see why!  The screen time thing is unimportant - if it's a good model, who cares?  Now, I think the only two sets in ROTS that weren't great were the two Wookiee sets, both of which, like most recent sets, are great parts packs.  The Clone Scout Walker, Tri-Droid Fighter, and Clone Turbo Tank used very cool construction techniques and closely parallelled the vehicles from the film.  The JSF, Darth Vader Transformation, and Ultimate Lightsaber Duel (less so that) were nothing particularly special, but still (in my opinion) far above the level of quality of the Episode II sets (save AT-TE and RGS).  We finally got troopers with different markings, which was a huge step forward.

See, you proved my point somewhat... buying brand new sets (because they stink) as parts packs just does not make sense to me... it points to LEGO as unimaginative... & if you continue to compare them to previous sets, you are essentially proving my point as well, the only way LEGO can go is 'up' when the sets weren't great... & I don't think of "troopers with different markings" as a "huge step forward"... making more original minifigures does not help them create more imaginative sets because, after all, you can't build a ship with a minifig, or a car, or a castle, or anything else for that matter...

Re Knight's Kingdom: everyone that has responded to my review of Vladek's Dark Fortress is heartily impressed.  Now, about the 'almost a throwback to classic Castle' - I said almost.  It's still not there.  The tacky 'siege weapons' and the <insert that tiresome argument> piece here and there (the 8-wide castle wall pieces, 8-wide door piece, Vladek mask, and swords at entrance, basically) hold it back from reaching that.  It's also does not have four walls when folded together, nor does it have a baseplate.  However - the construction is heavily brick-based, sort of reminiscent of Ninja.  While Ninja is not classic Castle, it's definitely a midpoint between modern Castle and classic.  Now, I can't say the same for the rest of KK2 - save for Scorpion Prison Cage, which is good at best, the rest are pretty horrible.  STILL - largest castle set ever and higher-caliber construction is definitely a good road to be on.

Like I stated previously, thinking of Vladek's Dark Fortress as a stand-alone set, I am not impressed. I am also happy to see LEGO make a set that has improved greatly over the previous sets, but I don't use that as a basis for how I judge whether or not I will pay the money to buy the set... but don't get me wrong, I agree that it "is definetly a good road to be on" & that I am optimistic for the future of the theme, just right now I don't believe I will be buying any at retail...

I actually like the Harry Potter books a lot... oh well.  It's a matter of taste, I guess.  Anyway, yes, a lot of people buy them for the parts - amongst the adults, at least, which account for a minimal percentage of sales.  And what's wrong with that?  If they're not Harry Potter fans, I can't see them running out to the store to get the latest one to complete their Hogwarts diorama, so why not for the parts?  The models on the third line were fantastic and used abundant useful pieces, notably Hogwarts Castle and Hagrid's Hut (can you cay 'castle-style corners'?).  I saw no problem with the previous line and see only one with the upcoming line.

My wife actually enjoys the Harry Potter books, there just not interesting to me at all... There's nothing wrong with people buying them for parts... I just think that if LEGO is paying so much for the right to produce these sets, that at least a few should stand alone as great sets, and I don't see any that have...

Vikings - a historical line is definitely a step in the right direction.  Now, the dragons and 'beasts' may be tacky, but I'm sure people will find a use for those wings and dragon heads.  The fortress and ship look fabulous - not to mention the abundant minifigures.

True it is a step in the right direction, but it doesn't say much when that is really the only direction that the company can go (I can point to bad products all day long, but a better area to point out is the Revenue to Expenses ratio that the company has had problems with the past few years)... I love minifigures as well, but just because there are more, doesn't make an actual set any better (notice I said 'better', not 'more attractive to buy', as I would love more minifigs;) ).

Sandcrawler... ah, the sandcrawler.  I really don't see why people are getting caught up in the model with this one.  It looks like it looked in the film - a heap of junk - and some very fine junk it is.  It's HUGELY above piece/price value and the pieces are fantastic!  It's functional, fun, and sturdy.  As for the mottled colors that get on everyone's nerves, it really does look a lot better in person.  The price tag is very good for US citizens, although I can't say the same for Europeans.  Again, I see no problem with this set save for the vehicle's inherent ugliness.

I was never in favor of this set being made by LEGO... although, I see a big positive in the fact that it was recommended by fans from many places & that LEGO actually created it... which somewhat proves that LEGO is listening to its fans, which is a very good thing...

Also, I agree with phes, that the Megabloks Pirates are essentially play toys, not construction models & that their playability is limited because of that fact... A few Pirates LEGO system sets would do well on their own...

Life is Good.

[Mister Phes]

Also, I agree with Phes, that the Megabloks Pirates are essentially play toys, not construction models & that their playability is limited because of that fact... A few Pirates LEGO system sets would do well on their own...

If the SYSTEM sets were cleverly designed, had the feel of the original SYSTEM Pirate theme, wasn't over priced and not just 4+ Pirate sets with SYSTEM scale mini-figures, then they would do well on their own... But does LEGO have it in them to produce such a theme or have they lost the knack?

>:(