1329 replies to this topic

[Infernum]

I think a new castle theme would be cool, but I would much rather have LOTR. LOTR is currently my favorite theme and I would hate to see it go so soon. It has so much potential!

[Ardelon]

TheLegoDr, on 29 November 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

I think maybe TLG realizes that LOTR isn't for everyone and the backlash of Kingdoms ending probably resulted in them thinking maybe two castle themes can work side by side. At the very least they could bring about extra pieces or nice looking molds/coloring to be used in any scheme. I will obviously wait to see pictures and more information, but I'm more excited for more LOTR sets personally. I love classic castle and that is what I grew up with, but I'm really digging how they are handling the LOTR line currently.

...

Hmm, was there a backlash though? Some AFOLs were opposed, as is always the case, but generally, I thought the AFOL community (at least on EB) was largely in favor of LotR, and I would imagine the general public, without any strong ties to LEGO Castle, would be even more enthusiastic abot LotR. Meaning, I see this more as a supply-side decision rather than demand-side. I dont know what consequences that would have though, apart from being as far from LotR as possible so as not to cannibalize sales (Meaning, I too am hoping for a revisit of 80s Castle...)

[SirBlake]

I think Kingdoms was a return to 80's castles. It just got cut short when they won the LotR/Hobbit license, so they never got the chance to add to the modular aspect to Kings Castle or give the dragon knights a proper castle of their own. That said, in it's own way Kingdoms is sort of hobbling along in 2012 with Joust and the chess set. Whether the rumors that this thread are based on turn out to be true or not, I think there's a chance that the theme might live on in small ways, then come back to the forefront after the Middle Earth properties are retired.

Maybe some wishful thinking there, but I'd be good with it. A chance to have our cake and eat it too, as it were.

[Shroffy123]

I really hope that this isn't a rumor, and does happen.  As much as I am enjoying the LOTR theme, I still haven't falling in love with the fleshies.  I think I'd cry a little if my classic yellow figs ended up being out number by the increase in fleshie figs.

Also, I find that there is a big gap in my Lego purchases.  Now, I am not like most, I only stick to one theme, and thats Castle.  When a new wave comes out, I but all the sets at once, and find that I have 3-6 months of no Lego purchases.  That withdrawal can be hard sometimes.  If they have two related themes, a new Kingdom, and continued LOTR/Hobbit, each wave coming out at different time/season (respectively), I'd be perfectly happy.

That's all I'm wishing for.  

[Nintendawg]

Ardelon, on 30 November 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

Hmm, was there a backlash though? Some AFOLs were opposed, as is always the case, but generally, I thought the AFOL community (at least on EB) was largely in favor of LotR.

Well even though I own a few LOTR sets myself, I really don't like the theme because I see it as responsible for the "death" of Kingdoms. Not only that, it represents the decline of unlicensed themes. Even though thats how I felt, I wouldn't just go into every LOTR thread and tell them how bad there favourite theme sucks. Nobody wants to hear that.

[Durins Bane]

Nintendawg, on 30 November 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

Well even though I own a few LOTR sets myself, I really don't like the theme because I see it as responsible for the "death" of Kingdoms. Not only that, it represents the decline of unlicensed themes. Even though thats how I felt, I wouldn't just go into every LOTR thread and tell them how bad there favourite theme sucks. Nobody wants to hear that.

I completely understand. I personally can't wait for a new castle line, But I do not want it to kill "my precious." I can't help but feel, as an AFOL, that LOTR is a wee bit more for adults...

However, I really wish I had submitted my suggestion for a new Jousting theme, with some kind of action where you can launch two knights at each other, in hopes of knocking them off, with new helms, crests, armor, and different tournament fields.

I really hope they do not re-release the most recent factions, tho.

[Hive]

If LOTR and a new Castle theme can live side by side, I'm all for it. I do enjoy some of the LOTR sets, and personally think that Helm's Deep is one of the best LEGO sets (if not *the* best LEGO set) released since MMV.

That said, however, I'd sacrifice LOTR for Castle if needed be...

I wept inside when Kingdoms was cancelled, as I really think they had something good going there that just kept getting stronger and stronger. But now that it's over and a bit distant, I no longer want to see more Kingdoms - but hope instead that they bring us new factions (or, preferably, re-imagined old factions). As much as I loved the Dragon knights, the colors on the Lion knights did little to nothing for me... and I'd like to see them replaced. But of course, I won't exactly mind seeing more Kingdoms... it's just not my #1 wish.

[dyntar]

Although I'm slightly biased being a classic castle fan and not a mega fan of LOTR. I like the Lego sets that aren't character based. LOTR has never quite cut it for me as a castle theme. LOTR is mainly about having to get each set so that you get the characters in the books/ movies. Those figures are too restrictive. You pick up a minifig from the LOTR range and you can automatically picture how he or rarely she would act according to the movies or books.. Where if you pick up a fig from the castle range the character is entirely up to the individual.

I prefer the Lego unique figures where you get to decide who and what they do.

Bring back the Castle theme!... Kingdoms has not finished yet. I want to see the Dragons hideout. More medieval town based sets would be awesome. And maybe a return of the Black Falcons.

[Jack Bricker]

My personal wish is that Lego would have LOTR/Hobbit side by side with Castle and I would hate for LOTR/Hobbit to get terminated too early without releasing all of the main scenes and locations from the movies.  That being said I would also love to see a return of the classic castle theme.  I also would really like to see, alongside more civilian sets, some classic fantastical elements like a new dragon, wizard, etc...

[TheLegoDr]

It sounds like most people want a return to more classic castle instead of a return to Kingdoms. I really enjoyed Kingdoms when they came out and thought they had some nice sets. I was a little disappointed when it finished so abruptly, but wasn't heartbroken. I love LOTR, but mostly because of how awesome the figures are. I agree it may limit your creativity, but at the same time it is neat seeing those characters in minifigure form. I would imagine they would either continue KingdomS (emphasis on the plural "s") with new factions or just create something new all together. I would imagine they could live side-by-side, but only time will tell.

At the very least, I like how most LOTR torsos can be swapped to non-Licensed skin tone for those who are opposed. Gives more variety for your other castles anyway.

[Weil]

SirBlake, on 28 November 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

I'm betting new chess set mold as well.

I agree, the picture we now have from behind seems to be consistent with the new mold I received in my chess set that I posted some pictures of. The picture is too blury to be clear though.

SirBlake, on 30 November 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I think Kingdoms was a return to 80's castles. It just got cut short when they won the LotR/Hobbit license, so they never got the chance to add to the modular aspect to Kings Castle or give the dragon knights a proper castle of their own. That said, in it's own way Kingdoms is sort of hobbling along in 2012 with Joust and the chess set. Whether the rumors that this thread are based on turn out to be true or not, I think there's a chance that the theme might live on in small ways, then come back to the forefront after the Middle Earth properties are retired.

Maybe some wishful thinking there, but I'd be good with it. A chance to have our cake and eat it too, as it were.

I agree, Kingdoms was a great theme in my opinion. I think it had the capability for a much longer lifetime than it got and I would love to see it return. I'm a fan of the LOTR films and both the LOTR books and (more so) the Hobbit, despite that I far prefer Kingdoms to the LOTR/Hobbit Lego lines. I am impressed with how well Lego has done LOTR/Hobbit, (better than I anticipated when it was first announced) and I think it's nice that it's there but I would still always choose Kingdoms.

[Deathleech]

Given the choice between Kingdoms (or any castle theme for that matter) and the LotR/Hobbit next year, I am going to pick the LotR/Hobbit every time.  I say that not just because I am a HUGE Tolkien fan, but also because we will never see anymore LotR/Hobbit waves after the ones we are getting now.  Lego needs to buy an expensive license to make them so uless the line becomes popular enough like Star Wars and is a mainstay, the line will probably end after a few years and that will be it.  No more LotR/Hobbit Lego sets EVER.  Castle on the other hand will make a return sooner or later.  The question isn't if, just when.  We have already had a few decades of castle sets and I am sure we will see many, MANY more.

Based on all the rumors we have hard it would seem like the LotR wave this summer did decent, but not quite as well as Lego expected.  Because of this, next year they are doing a more limited release but keeping the line going because the Hobbit films may generate a ton of interest and also because they already paid for the license.  I don't feel the like rumored 8 sets released in March will ever materialize, I think a wave next summer with 4-5 sets and a castle line released around the same time seems much more likely (basically everything the German toy shop site reports).  The only reason I am not totally convinced by the German site is the LotR/Hobbit set names seem absolutely horrible.  Really, a Corsair ship instead of Minas Tiras or Osgiliath?  They are featured not even five minutes in the film.  And why would they release another Nazgul.Frodo set when you get the exact same minifigs in the Weathrtop set?   I just don't see these sets happening.

Personally I feel like Lego needs to change their Lotr/Hobbit direction.  This line won't appeal to the target Lego audience (children) without tons of marketing.  You can't sell sets based on a twelve year old PG-13 movie when your main target is kids ages 6-12.  You also need to play to LotR/Hobbit strengths.. make army builders and let the hardcore fans eat them up in droves!  Don't try to make a huge stand alone Mines of Moria set and only have bits and pieces in the one set because the setting is too big and sprawling.. make more smallers sets that can serve as both army builders AND add to the bigger sets.  I think this, along with better marketing, is the key to success with the LotR/Hobbit line.

[Haltiamieli]

TheLegoDr, on 30 November 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

It sounds like most people want a return to more classic castle instead of a return to Kingdoms.

If by latter you mean a return of the Kingdoms factions – Lion and Dragon Knights – I suppose you are right. That would be a bit repetitive. But I don't see how they could really "return to more classic castle" – Kingdoms was just that. Of course it was a rather short theme, so it didn't have time to include all the aspects of the classics. But if they would continue Castle under Kingdoms title and its established design style, just with new factions, I would be happy indeed.

[Infernum]

Deathleech, on 01 December 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Given the choice between Kingdoms (or any castle theme for that matter) and the LotR/Hobbit next year, I am going to pick the LotR/Hobbit every time.  I say that not just because I am a HUGE Tolkien fan, but also because we will never see anymore LotR/Hobbit waves after the ones we are getting now.  Lego needs to buy an expensive license to make them so uless the line becomes popular enough like Star Wars and is a mainstay, the line will probably end after a few years and that will be it.  No more LotR/Hobbit Lego sets EVER.  Castle on the other hand will make a return sooner or later.  The question isn't if, just when.  We have already had a few decades of castle sets and I am sure we will see many, MANY more.

Based on all the rumors we have hard it would seem like the LotR wave this summer did decent, but not quite as well as Lego expected.  Because of this, next year they are doing a more limited release but keeping the line going because the Hobbit films may generate a ton of interest and also because they already paid for the license.  I don't feel the like rumored 8 sets released in March will ever materialize, I think a wave next summer with 4-5 sets and a castle line released around the same time seems much more likely (basically everything the German toy shop site reports).  The only reason I am not totally convinced by the German site is the LotR/Hobbit set names seem absolutely horrible.  Really, a Corsair ship instead of Minas Tiras or Osgiliath?  They are featured not even five minutes in the film.  And why would they release another Nazgul.Frodo set when you get the exact same minifigs in the Weathrtop set?   I just don't see these sets happening.

Personally I feel like Lego needs to change their Lotr/Hobbit direction.  This line won't appeal to the target Lego audience (children) without tons of marketing.  You can't sell sets based on a twelve year old PG-13 movie when your main target is kids ages 6-12.  You also need to play to LotR/Hobbit strengths.. make army builders and let the hardcore fans eat them up in droves!  Don't try to make a huge stand alone Mines of Moria set and only have bits and pieces in the one set because the setting is too big and sprawling.. make more smallers sets that can serve as both army builders AND add to the bigger sets.  I think this, along with better marketing, is the key to success with the LotR/Hobbit line.

I agree with you about Castle coming back sooner or later. I also agree that these sets sound horrible. However I don't agree about LOTR not doing well with kids. Every time I go to the lego store I see kids getting LOTR. They care more about the sets and that it's lego than what the movie is rated. It is true that LOTR probably isn't doing the best with kids, but I think it's doing fine. Hopefully well enough for several more waves.

[Durins Bane]

Infernum, on 01 December 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

I agree with you about Castle coming back sooner or later. I also agree that these sets sound horrible. However I don't agree about LOTR not doing well with kids. Every time I go to the lego store I see kids getting LOTR. They care more about the sets and that it's lego than what the movie is rated. It is true that LOTR probably isn't doing the best with kids, but I think it's doing fine. Hopefully well enough for several more waves.

Here at my store LOTR has BEEN DOING GREAT. It hasn't sold bad, I think the majority of people saying it has, are just saying that because they are not buying them. I see wave after wave of people Getting the WHOLE line. A lot of parents were just waiting till xmas to get them for their kids.

[Jack Bricker]

@ Deathleech
I agree with you 100% except for the part about LOTR not selling as well.  I have talked to numerous Lego Store employees and I have shopped at a lot of different stores that sell Lego in my area and I can tell you that LOTR/Hobbit is selling very well.  For example, when the Hobbit sets were first released here at the local Fred Meyers all of the sets were sold out in just 2 days and that was all of the Fred Meyer stores in my area so, I think the line is selling well.  

Another point I would like to make is I am wondering more and more about that dragon mountain set.  If this new castle theme has no fantasy then it would be kind of weird and boring to have a dragon mountain without a dragon so, I really am wondering about that set.

Edited by Jack Bricker, 01 December 2012 - 03:47 AM.

[TheLegoDr]

Very good point. Being released in the summer might impact overall sales, compared to the holiday season and/or The Hobbit actually being released. Yes, Hobbit sets themselves will probably sell better since the sets are based off of the actual movie coming out, but to people who were unaware there are also LOTR sets available, they might be picking them up now instead of when they were first released. As far as I can tell in stores there are a LOT of Shelob Attacks, but very little of every other set. I personally love Shelob Attacks though. I did notice in the new LEGO catalog that Weathertop was missing from the LOTR line-up. Makes me wonder if that set isn't selling very well with the higher price point and repeat characters. I haven't seen it on shelves either.

And earlier I did mean a return to Kingdoms with other factions to continue the Kingdoms line but mix it up with something different than what we've seen. Maybe a Black Falcon return??? under the Kingdoms banner. That'd help give something to the people missing Kingdoms, missing Black Falcons, and wanting something new. I have zero insider information, so that's all speculation.

We'll see what happens.

[Faefrost]

dyntar, on 30 November 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Although I'm slightly biased being a classic castle fan and not a mega fan of LOTR. I like the Lego sets that aren't character based. LOTR has never quite cut it for me as a castle theme. LOTR is mainly about having to get each set so that you get the characters in the books/ movies. Those figures are too restrictive. You pick up a minifig from the LOTR range and you can automatically picture how he or rarely she would act according to the movies or books.. Where if you pick up a fig from the castle range the character is entirely up to the individual.

I prefer the Lego unique figures where you get to decide who and what they do.

Bring back the Castle theme!... Kingdoms has not finished yet. I want to see the Dragons hideout. More medieval town based sets would be awesome. And maybe a return of the Black Falcons.

Few seem to realize this, but LotR was not really a replacement for Castle in the Lego rotation. It was far more a replacement for Harry Potter. It probably can co-exist with regular Castle sets quite well.

[Infernum]

Faefrost, on 01 December 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

Few seem to realize this, but LotR was not really a replacement for Castle in the Lego rotation. It was far more a replacement for Harry Potter. It probably can co-exist with regular Castle sets quite well.

Hmm, I never thought of that! That would make sence, as both are a  licensed fantasy theme. Still LOTR is more midievil than Harry Potter.

[TheLegoDr]

I do believe they can coexist quite well. The only thing I could think of Kingdoms getting discontinued so quickly was to allow consumers to only buy LOTR at first? And then once it got established they would bring back regular castle? I really don't know. I wouldn't believe it replaced it either.

[Eric Su]

I WISH it was Castle.

[SirBlake]

Deathleech, on 01 December 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

...but also because we will never see anymore LotR/Hobbit waves after the ones we are getting now...the line will probably end after a few years and that will be it.  No more LotR/Hobbit Lego sets EVER.  Castle on the other hand will make a return sooner or later.  The question isn't if, just when.  We have already had a few decades of castle sets and I am sure we will see many, MANY more.

This is a great point. Makes me think I need to be more patient as far as the continuation of an unlicensed castle theme (like Kingdoms, which would be great).

Deathleech, on 01 December 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

You also need to play to LotR/Hobbit strengths.. make army builders and let the hardcore fans eat them up in droves!

Amen!

Haltiamieli, on 01 December 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

If by latter you mean a return of the Kingdoms factions – Lion and Dragon Knights – I suppose you are right. That would be a bit repetitive. But I don't see how they could really "return to more classic castle" – Kingdoms was just that. Of course it was a rather short theme, so it didn't have time to include all the aspects of the classics. But if they would continue Castle under Kingdoms title and its established design style, just with new factions, I would be happy indeed.

Agreed. I think there could be room to continue with the Lions and Dragons, but expand on the teaser Falcon from the joust set, and sprinkle in some other classics like we keep mentioning like Forestmen.

Durins Bane, on 01 December 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Here at my store LOTR has BEEN DOING GREAT.

I don't know how to measure such a thing. As far as modern toy buying/collecting goes, I come from a background in Hasbro Star Wars. In that case, even through anecdotal local retail, it's painfully obvious what does and doesn't sell. With LEGO, there are only a handfull of sets of any given theme a year, and they're always readily available, so I don't have a feel for how you tell what's successful and what isn't.

[Durins Bane]

SirBlake, on 01 December 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I don't know how to measure such a thing. As far as modern toy buying/collecting goes, I come from a background in Hasbro Star Wars. In that case, even through anecdotal local retail, it's painfully obvious what does and doesn't sell. With LEGO, there are only a handfull of sets of any given theme a year, and they're always readily available, so I don't have a feel for how you tell what's successful and what isn't.

Because I used to work at Lego and I am still close with everyone at my old store, and I am there on a daily basis.

[SirBlake]

Durins Bane, on 01 December 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Because I used to work at Lego and I am still close with everyone at my old store, and I am there on a daily basis.

Well, that answers that.

[Deathleech]

I just wanted to quickly point out that I never said the LotR line has sold badly.  I just don't think it has sold quite as well as Lego hoped.  What their expectations were I have no idea, but I have a feeling they were up there with Star Wars.  That is unrealistic given the circumstances, there is a complete lack of hype with kids surrounding any LotR related themes right now.  If they released the LotR line after the Hobbit movie I think things would be different, but a lot of kids that will be buying the sets weren't even alive when the original LotR movies were released and I doubt have had much exposure to it.  There are no cartoons or video games out right now supporting the line like with Star Wars either.

Does that mean the line did poorly?  Not by any means.  It obviously did good enough to get at least 4-5 more sets next summer, and probably another Hobbit wave in the winter.  And really who knows, maybe the line really did meet Lego's expectations and they were always planning to re-introduce a castle theme in 2013 regardless of the LotR/Hobbit lines like Faefrost points out.