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New Wagons


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#1 Mark Bellis

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:45 PM

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After going to a railway exhibition last Saturday (23rd May), and buying some books, I was inspired to build some new wagons.

I added working features, such as opening doors, as well as SNOT lettering.
Most are real UK wagons but I also did the Awdry character "Scruffey".
The new plate modified 1x2 with bar on end is quite a useful piece for drop-sided wagons.
Black droid arms are useful for supporting the tubes underneath.  The tubes represent parts of the brake gear and supports, but working brakes might have been overkill :classic:

More technical info here: http://www.brickshel...wagons_info.txt

There are 4 wagons, the first picture of each here:
"Scruffey":
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Grampus 12ft wheelbase drop-side wagon:
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LMS 5-plank open wagon with lime load and opening side doors:
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SC coal wagon with opening side and end doors:
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Folder when moderated: http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=385528
Includes some open-door and underneath pictures too.

Hope you like them.
Mark
Mark J E Bellis - 8mm Scale LEGO Railways, Scenery and Technic. Visit My Brickshelf
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#2 Andre1983nl

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 02:34 PM

Nice  :thumbup:

Gonne buy a train for sure.
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#3 MightySlickPancake

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 02:58 PM

excellent you never sease Mark i love these.

you are great in 8 wide trains.
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#4 ILikePi

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 03:16 PM

Wow, nice trains, Mark!
I especially like the "Scruffey" SNOT lettering. For some reason, it just looks better than normal SNOT. :laugh:
You also made some really good designs. Keep up the good work!  :classic:

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#5 legofan

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 03:44 PM

WOW! I love the 'Scruffy' too. The letters are very nicely built onto the wagon. Very nice! Great MOC!  :thumbup:

#6 Hinckley

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 08:26 PM

These are great, Mark! :sweet: Thanks for sharing your creations with us. They are very industrial and gritty, very realistic in detail. I've blogged your creations on Classic-Town.net!

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#7 SeaKing61

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 10:51 PM

Great work Mark. I love your lettering and those eyes are just perfect on Scruffey. Fantastic attention to detail throughout. I've been looking through you trains on brickshelf and they're all absolutely fantastic. I'm very jealous  :grin:

Laurie
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#8 MetroiD

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:03 AM

Hah, Scruffeeeeeeeyyyy!!! (My Murder Mystery character has become namesake to a coal waggon, how cool is that  :tongue: )

Mark, thanks for posting pictures of the waggons' wheelbase & sides... Very creative, me likey! And the working features just add the topping to this. If you don't mind me asking, which loc are you coupling these great wagons with?
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#9 Mark Bellis

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 05:58 PM

Thanks guys.
I'm surprised how quickly some of these wagons got to a finished MOC.
The only planning was to draw the letters of "SCRUFFEY" to check whether I could do the door opening as well.  Adding up the total length of the letters is something I could do in my head, but aligning it with a 4-wide door is a bit more tricky, given the need for SNOT support.

View PostSeaKing61, on May 31 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

Great work Mark. I love your lettering and those eyes are just perfect on Scruffey. Fantastic attention to detail throughout. I've been looking through you trains on brickshelf and they're all absolutely fantastic. I'm very jealous  :grin:

Laurie

I've been building trains to 8mm scale since 1996 and exhibiting them since 2000, so it wouldn't be fair on yourself to be jealous!  It took a while to settle the framework and boundaries of my scale building scheme, and also several years to earn enough money to buy the bricks!  It's a shame not many people build to a similar scheme, but it is a bit more expensive than 6-wide.

When the objective is to show that an 8mm scale model railway is viable in LEGO, that sets several objectives and requirements (track spacing and loading gauge, electrics and motive power, vehicle sizes).  Most of the rest is "Can this be done within the requirements of the scale without glue, stickers, paint or too many mods?"

The thing that prompted me to build these wagons was seeing a rake of lime wagons in 4mm scale.  8mm scale LEGO has more accurate track than 4mm scale OO trains!  The simplicity of the lime wagons made them accessible as a potential MOC.  "ICI (Lime) Ltd" could have fitted in 16M (I drew it out on paper) but I wanted to do the opening doors on a "real" wagon (as opposed to Scruffey, whose character and appearance mattered more than functionality), so "LMS" was so much easier because the "M" can incorporate the clips for the door hinge.  Looking at a few books told me that LMS open wagons typically have corrugated ends (number 1 rule is get to know your prototype!), hence the profile bricks.  The load shape was remembered from the wagons at the show.  Different loads settle at different angles.

My previous wagons, clay hoods, have 2 tubes each side as an approximation of brake rods and wheel ties (that hold the wheels against the brake force), but I wanted to improve on this.  Having a few more of the alternative Technic pieces with studs on top, rather than the steering parts with pins, made it easier to attach the brake gear support bracket to the underside, also enabling a simpler wagon base to suffice instead of a base incorporating obsolete Technic crenellated 1xn plates with holes for the pins.  All this made a rake of wagons viable.  Wagons had been on the "to build" list for a while, but a better future brings more encouragement to the build in the present.  The "Can it be done" changed to "Yes"!

Having built the lime wagon, it was a case of "now that I have a 10ft wheelbase, what else can I put on one?", so a trawl of the books revealed up to 15 wagons that might be possible.  I probably spend £1 on railway books for every £20 I spend on LEGO.  Books with early colour pictures of railways are useful because these wagons range from about 1940 to 1960, with most types surviving today, either as departmental stock or at preserved railways (guess where I go on holiday! :classic: )

The stretch to 12ft wheelbase was for ubiquitous wagons that I always wanted to build.  The Grampus wagons numbered about 5000 so they were a common sight from the 1950s onwards.  The same can be said for the Mermaid (in progress), which numbered a few hundred but have an interesting unloading mechanism (irresistible to the engineer in me).

View PostTheOtters, on Jun 1 2009, 01:03 AM, said:

Hah, Scruffeeeeeeeyyyy!!! (My Murder Mystery character has become namesake to a coal waggon, how cool is that  :tongue: )

Mark, thanks for posting pictures of the waggons' wheelbase & sides... Very creative, me likey! And the working features just add the topping to this. If you don't mind me asking, which loc are you coupling these great wagons with?

Scruffey has existed in the public imagination since 1969.  An example to many young boys of the consequences of bad behaviour!  Cue debate on social policy website!

The wagons have different loads: Lime, Ballast, Coal and clean or dirty ballast or sleepers.
Theoretically they might all be in different trains, depending on the period and the loco pulling the train.
All apart from the Grampus could be in a mixed goods train, probably pulled by an LMS Black 5 4-6-0.  I might do "Henry" as a green Black 5, but not till I get more wheels.  My wheel scheme is a necessary improvement on 40-tooth cogs, both for new locos and as a back-fit to existing ones.
The closest engine I have so far is Olton Hall, which is more used to pulling the Hogwarts Express.  GW liveries varied and mixed traffic engines with a crest on the tender usually did passenger work, with those inscribed "GWR" doing the goods trains.

In terms of rake possibilities, the lime wagons could make a full length train, maybe up to 12 wagons and a brake van for my layout.  Edward the Blue Engine (4-4-0, probably Glen class) might be a suitable loco for them, maybe better if not all the wagons were LMS.  The coal wagon needs fellow wagons with a few more different private-owner liveries and sizes to make up a full train.  Scruffey is unique of course, but a mixed goods or ballast train would suit him best, especially if hauled by Oliver (an 0-4-2 GW tank engine).  Again, various private owner liveries would suit.  The Grampus could have a couple more, running empty or with sleepers behind a Class 14 as part of an engineers' train, perhaps with a couple of ballast-filled Mermaids too.  As the books say "every wagon is different"!  That is a bit less-so nowadays, but definitely so in the post-war years.  As such, most of these wagons are templates for "theme and variations" rather than for rakes of identical wagons.

Mark
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#10 DaCheese

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:36 PM

Fantastic stuff Mark. Sadly I don't have the skill, money or space to model in 8mm/ft Lego! If I get hooked on Lego modelling I'm probably going to be cutting some corners, combining bricks and traditional scenic modelling techniques to create something inspired by the many hours I spent on Lego LOCO as a child and the environments of more recent Lego video games such as Star Wars, Indy and Batman. I realise that there has to be a boundary between modelling with Lego and modelling with plastikard and a craft knife, but I can't personally justify ballasting track with 1 x 1 studs when it's expensive and not as realistic as ballast scatter.

In another topic you mention the difficulty of producing a shunter with PF. I have a few ideas in mind for making a model that looks fairly accurate (although not to scale) and fits in with the size of most lego trains. First of all, obviously to take the PF gubbins the prototypes will need to be larger shunters, perhaps Austerity saddle tanks, 08s, that sort of size. The LiPo battery could go in the cab and form the front of the firebox of the J94, or be integrated into the bonnet of a Railfreight grey 08. The M-size motor could be put deep in the bowels of the chassis driving a single axle and geared down for super-slow running and to offset the reduction in power compared to the XL motor; 10194 demonstrates that a single axle with traction tyres is enough. I had some kind of worm drive in mind based on this being a common arrangement in model railway chassis. I use XP 64 bit so I don't know if LDraw or similar would work on my PC. The website isn't very user friendly, so I don't know how it's used, but ideally I'd like to make a virtual Lego J94 to see how feasible it is.

#11 Mark Bellis

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 05:17 PM

View PostDaCheese, on Jun 2 2009, 12:36 AM, said:

Fantastic stuff Mark. Sadly I don't have the skill, money or space to model in 8mm/ft Lego! If I get hooked on Lego modelling I'm probably going to be cutting some corners, combining bricks and traditional scenic modelling techniques to create something inspired by the many hours I spent on Lego LOCO as a child and the environments of more recent Lego video games such as Star Wars, Indy and Batman. I realise that there has to be a boundary between modelling with Lego and modelling with plastikard and a craft knife, but I can't personally justify ballasting track with 1 x 1 studs when it's expensive and not as realistic as ballast scatter.

In another topic you mention the difficulty of producing a shunter with PF. I have a few ideas in mind for making a model that looks fairly accurate (although not to scale) and fits in with the size of most lego trains. First of all, obviously to take the PF gubbins the prototypes will need to be larger shunters, perhaps Austerity saddle tanks, 08s, that sort of size. The LiPo battery could go in the cab and form the front of the firebox of the J94, or be integrated into the bonnet of a Railfreight grey 08. The M-size motor could be put deep in the bowels of the chassis driving a single axle and geared down for super-slow running and to offset the reduction in power compared to the XL motor; 10194 demonstrates that a single axle with traction tyres is enough. I had some kind of worm drive in mind based on this being a common arrangement in model railway chassis. I use XP 64 bit so I don't know if LDraw or similar would work on my PC. The website isn't very user friendly, so I don't know how it's used, but ideally I'd like to make a virtual Lego J94 to see how feasible it is.

I understand the space constraint - 16ft x 12ft is a loft layout but also the most one can assemble at a show in the 8hrs setup time!  CAD is the part I don't have much time for - I find it quicker in my head and building by hand than it would be in LDD or LDraw (unless I practised regularly)!  Track designer is the exception to that because it gives a better idea of how tracks will fit, and is quicker than assembling real track.  I like to try out options, especially when building loco cabs - build 2, improve one and see which is better.  Scruffey was mostly in my head, but the face took a few trials.

We do have a Brickish Association member in the UK who uses LEGO track and MOCs with traditional model railway scenery.  A lot cheaper in sand green plates!  Most people build 6-wide and do a modular street scene as a backdrop, making a great collaborative build layout.
1x1s are not quite so bad if you can buy them by weight - £45/kg PaB price is 0.81p each.  I started with 18 tiger mosaics when they were going cheap!

A J94 might be possible with PF if you begin, as you say, with the essential elements at the core of the chassis.  The EN wheels are about right for a J94 or 08 in 8-wide or 8mm scale but 6-wide builders might prefer the BBB medium wheels to fit with other models (assuming that, in 6-wide, EN wheels represent over 6ft diameter).

I currently have Thomas, Stepney and Duck, all 0-6-0s, which would struggle to fit PF, partly because their boilers are 4M diameter.  As 9V engines they are built over a 9V train motor with a 71427 or 43362 gearmotor turning the 24mm pulley driving wheels.

The motor in an 0-6-0 would have to be above the axles, except if you could get away without a full axle for the middle wheels by support those wheels on shortened pins in triangle brackets alongside the 3-wide PF motor.  That might involve modding parts :tongue: but it's a mod I've done before!

I struggled with the Class 14, even though it's a larger shunter than an 08, because its body is 5.6 wide, tapering to 5.2 at the ends.  No room for a battery with all that SNOT work - I can barely fit a 9V wire through to the cab motor!  I decided to let the adjacent coach carry the battery, receivers and train motors, leaving the cab gearmotor to power just the engine.

I would suggest adding flywheels to the motor axle if they will fit.  Many HO models have flywheels for smooth slow running.  There needs to be enough energy in the flywheels to overcome the friction of the worm gears, which is greater with LEGO ones than with the HO ones.  Worms would be OK for the speed range because an 08 does 18mph and an 09 27mph maximum.  The lowest friction gearing is still 8:24 or 16:16 rather than 12:20, so I have just one 12:20 stage in the gearing for my larger locos.

An 02 would be quite a challenge, but I might have a go!

Mark
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#12 SeaKing61

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 05:54 PM

Mark, is this the Brickish member you're referring to? It's this Brickshelf Gallery and yours that I look to for inspiration for my own British Train MOCs

Laurie
My MOCs
------Fabuland Taxi -------- Flooded Street ----------- Class 08-------
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