A mini-doll rant by a mini-doll fan

[Soupperson1]

It's not often you get mini-doll rants by a mini-doll fan but I wrote one on Brickipedia:

http://en.brickimedia.org/wiki/User_blog:Soupperson1/A_mini-doll_rant_by_a_mini-doll_fan

I'd really like to hear your thoughts about how mini-dolls are spread out amongst sets either here or there. It be great to hear other people's opinions!

(I assume this is the right place to put it as mini-dolls are now in different themes)

Edited August 24, 2016 by Soupperson1

[Lyichir]

I can understand some of these criticisms, but I think others are a little overblown. Take outfits for example—while I do think there could stand to be more outfits in some cases (particularly for distinct characters), I don't see a problem with, say the Friends characters in the summer camp sets sharing outfits with the ones from the Amusement Park sets (since both cases call for casual summer outfits). In general, despite having named characters Friends' closest "boy's" analogue is not Ninjago, with its abundance of characters and outfits, but rather City: both themes feature more "down to earth", real-world subject matter, and as such both themes tend to reuse figure parts heavily rather than necessitating a brand-new outfit for every situation or a brand-new face for each character. Also, in general, mini-dolls are probably even more expensive to produce than minifigures (thanks to overmolding, multi-surface printing, and a generally more complex shape), so it's no surprise that reuse of parts might be deemed even more necessary.

I'd also disagree about the lack of characters in Elves. Firstly, the animals in Elves ARE generally depicted as every bit as sapient as the Elves themselves—the fact that Naida plays checkers with Delphia and Flamey works not one but two jobs should be evidence enough of that—so I would generally consider them as desirable as mini-doll characters. Meanwhile, Elvendale is generally shown to be larger and less populous than Heartlake City, with most sets taking place in the wilderness or similar areas rather than in homes and businesses. It's worth pointing out that while a few of the Elves webisodes HAVE had to include background Elves not featured in sets (especially as background characters in the show's larger Starlight Inn), they have still never been so essential to the plot as to be named. More elf characters would indeed be nice but with the modest number of sets per year, I don't see it being very lacking for mini-doll characters.

I don't think the criticisms about inconsistency in body/head types are that big of a deal either. While more consistency would be nice, a certain amount of variation is appropriate, and some of that variation is a natural consequence of the aforementioned reuse of figure parts (which has a more visible effect than it would with the similarly-shaped standard minifigures). As for the Elves, they're, well, Elves—considering that they already have differently shaped eyes and ears, the male figures having bigger noses as well isn't that odd (especially considering that them even being "teenagers" by human standards is up for debate).

Regarding the doubling up of characters, while it could be nice to have more characters or more costume variations, it's also not a bad thing for people to have multiple options for getting all the characters they want. And in Elves, other parts of sets like unique animals make up for the occasional duplicate elf. In fact, only one Elves set so far has gone without a single new animal or figure (this year's Dragon School), and as a die-hard fan I actually APPRECIATED being able to cross that set off my wish list in order to free up more of my budget.

I do think that child characters would be a huge plus, and if the rumors of Leprechauns from next year's Elves sets are true, we just might finally get a smaller body type. I do not, on the other hand, think that a male main character in Friends is necessary. While more male characters in general could be a plus, Friends is aimed primarily at girls, so the fact that its five main characters are all girls should be no surprise. I don't think the comparison to female characters in Bionicle, Ninjago, and Nexo Knights is truly fair. When Friends is one of only three or so themes that actually have a majority female cast (compared to an abundance of male casts lacking for female representation), I certainly don't think a more "balanced" gender ratio among the main characters is really necessary or even preferable.

I do agree that exclusive figures in the DK guidebooks would be preferable to the reused or reconstituted figures they currently get. However, Friends isn't the only theme that sometimes suffers in that respect—even Ninjago once advertised an "exclusive" minifigure in one of the guidebooks that was anything but. I do also think that the likelihood of a side character from other media being featured exclusively in one of those books is exceedingly unlikely, as even for other themes the exclusive figs are almost always main characters—Ninjago always has one of the ninja or Wu rather than, say, another Elemental Master or even a variant of another side character, while Super Heroes books featuring some obscure Batman variant rather than a previously undepicted hero is practically a running joke by now. So even if we did get exclusive figs in those books, I think they'd generally be much more likely be variants of the main cast, rather than characters who have never been featured in sets before.

One thing you didn't mention in your rant that is a major criticism of mine is that, as an Elves fan, it's frustrating that the summer waves have featured cloaks and this year, hoods for all of the main characters except Farran. Last year it could possibly be excused on the grounds that there wasn't room for Farran in the two summer sets that year, but this year Farran is present in the Precious Crystal Mine set yet once again goes without the accessories that set the summer figs apart from the winter variants. Just because he's a boy shouldn't mean he's not allowed to accessorize!

[Soupperson1]

But City doesn't have named characters which is why I compare it to Ninjago and other themes rather than Creator and City. I'm not even sure if City expects repeat customers seeing as the sets seem to be on a two year cycle, which may explain the reuse of torsos. Though I tried to make the point I didn't want something new in every set, and the problem with the camp was the main characters were using the same torsos in the same subtheme.

Do characters really need to be essential to the plot to make an appearance in Elves? I mean surly a miner could've appeared in the mine instead of Naida or a henchman/prisoner in the Queen dragon set in addition to the girls as it is a $80 set. Then the two could've shared a hairpiece, face, torso or legpiece or whatever was the most expensive to produce.

While the doubling up does give you different options (except for the Emily/Azari scenario) since there are ten sets, that would be at least two options for each character if they got rid of doubles completely. And I don't think they need to get rid of them in sets like Ragana's castle where another figure appears. Exclusive animals are nice but I still see it as lazy for LEGO to make them as shop owners. I don't mind Delphia in Naida's spa as you pointed out as that's a smaller set. On the other side I don't think Dusti makes up for the lack of an additional figure in the Queen Dragon set, because the set itself is so expensive. Also if you want the animals they're on bricks and pieces for like $2.50 each.

I won't get into the boy Friend argument thing here you'll have to check the comments at Brickipedia for that, it be far to long. :P

I have no problem with getting an interesting new variant for the main cast. I only said another character because Kate, Naya and Liza are the ones who have appeared in the current line up of books. Mia is the only friend to appear in a book, which was BrickMaster.

Oh thanks for reminding me about the Farran thing. I know why doesn't he get a cloak but a space for a bow in his head!

[davee123]

It's definitely interesting to see how LEGO is handling mini-dolls. I think most of the criticisms you have are undoubtedly thanks to how LEGO is deciding to market to girls instead of boys.

For example, the lack of "generic" characters in Friends is quite likely thanks to the fact that the focus of the sets is supposed to be on the relationships of the characters, rather than peripherals. IE, the girls' enjoyment of the sets likely doesn't seem that much higher when including other figures that could be more interesting, so LEGO isn't doing that as much. At least, that'll be my guess.

Further to that point, if they expand the mini-dolls to include other interesting designs, it's possible that it begins to infringe on the already very successful minifigure lineup, and possibly competes. It could be that girls who would appreciate an expanded lineup of Friends figures might be the type who are already buying minifig-based sets.

The "boy" friend is another likely marketing point. Girls aren't terribly objectioned to playing with "boy" figures, but they like playing with "girl" figures more-- kids usually want to identify with the figures they're playing with. However, by contrast, boys are HORRIFIED at the prospect of being seen as "girly". So it's very unlikely to see boys that want to buy Friends sets, and somewhat more likely to find girls that want to play with, say, Ninjago. So including a "girl" figure in Ninjago is probably more important than including a main "boy" friend. The fact that Farran exists in Elves kind of surprises me in that regard-- I wonder if Elves is perceived as possibly appealing to more boys than Friends, or if Farran's inclusion is testing the waters of making a male main character (or possibly LEGO responding to criticism).

One interesting point I'll make:

My wife and I made a LEGO Friends vs LEGO Elves chess set, which we displayed at BrickFair Virginia recently. When contrasted against a lot of the other "boy"-themed models, a lot of girls were very excited to see Friends and Elves. However, I did notice that none of the girls who came by seemed to know any of the Friends characters' names. But there were a bunch of girls who recognized the Elves by name. I'm not sure if that's a difference in the types of fans of each lineup, or if it's just coincidence-- or perhaps simply because the Elves are more concretely defined characters. But it was interesting.

I'll definitely be curious to see how mini-dolls continue to evolve. They've only been around since 2012, so only about 4.5 years of actual sales and market presence to react to. How broad will the mini-doll lineup get? Or will it narrow if Elves, Disney Princess, and others perform poorly?

DaveE

[gamejutzu]

The "boy" friend is another likely marketing point. Girls aren't terribly objectioned to playing with "boy" figures, but they like playing with "girl" figures more-- kids usually want to identify with the figures they're playing with. However, by contrast, boys are HORRIFIED at the prospect of being seen as "girly". So it's very unlikely to see boys that want to buy Friends sets, and somewhat more likely to find girls that want to play with, say, Ninjago. So including a "girl" figure in Ninjago is probably more important than including a main "boy" friend. The fact that Farran exists in Elves kind of surprises me in that regard-- I wonder if Elves is perceived as possibly appealing to more boys than Friends, or if Farran's inclusion is testing the waters of making a male main character (or possibly LEGO responding to criticism).

I think you need to look at this in a different angle. Elves would probably still sell well if they added another male figure as well. And maybe another next year. Maybe a villain.

Anyways, I feel like LEGO realized their little flaw with Friends, and tried to change that with Elves. I can already tell that boys would be more inclined to get Elves sets than Friends. And it's not only because of Farran,

It's even in it's aesthetics. With Elves I see dark browns, purples, blues and greens, instead of pinks and whites, with the occasional neon green like I see in Friends sets.

If someone bought an Elves set, it would be much easier to MOC and substitute anything they'd dislike, than a Friends set. I might be completely wrong about that, but that's what i'm getting from looking at the sets.

From what I can tell, I doubt the "boy" themes are up in your face like this. Even sets with minidolls should compel both genders to buy some sets, or at least in my perfect world.

On a slightly unrelated note, I'd love LEGO to create a completely gender balanced theme. Like say they brought back Adventurers. It would be really cool to see an idea like this set in motion. Not only would it be gender balanced in terms of minifigures, but also in set design and aesthetic. Kind of like the Mystery Mobile. I doubt you can say that a set based off that is targeted for either gender.

Even if it was an action focused theme, I would still like it to be at least gender balanced minifigure-wise. Like say they revive Exo-Force. I would like a balanced cast for both heroes and villains.

Edited August 25, 2016 by gamejutzu

[davee123]

I think you need to look at this in a different angle. Elves would probably still sell well if they added another male figure as well. And maybe another next year. Maybe a villain.

Another male character like Tidas? A villain like Ragana?

Anyways, I feel like LEGO realized their little flaw with Friends, and tried to change that with Elves. I can already tell that boys would be more inclined to get Elves sets than Friends. And it's not only because of Farran, It's even in it's aesthetics. With Elves I see dark browns, purples, blues and greens, instead of pinks and whites, with the occasional neon green like I see in Friends sets.

I'm not sure I follow-- I think the fantasy concept behind Elves is probably more appealing cross-gender, and I think the design reflects that-- quite possibly intentionally. IE, the reason that we have Farran could be that designers recognized the increased appeal for boys, and added him as a character to make sure that boys wouldn't be totally turned off from the lineup. Granted, I don't actually know-- as noted, it could also be for other reasons, like to give the Elves a gender dynamic (in the cartoons, there are references to flirting between characters, which wouldn't exist without a male character), or it could be to satisfy social demands like making sure that their lineups are gender-diverse. But my guess would be marketing.

Interestingly, when I've looked at various advertising for Elves, they DID picture a boy playing with an Elves set (although his face was obscured-- we joked that he didn't want his identity known!). But I don't think I've seen a boy pictured playing with Friends. Again, I think the concept and design for Friends just isn't targeted to encompass boys.

Even sets with minidolls should compel both genders to buy some sets, or at least in my perfect world.

I think that "should" and "perfect world" are important points there. I'd love to believe that there's perfect gender equality, and that we didn't alienate anyone from certain products, but that's probably a lofty goal. I think if you included a "boy" Friend, it would have to be as a second-tier character to make sure that the sets still hit their target market. If you had a main "boy" friend, and he were the sole character in a set, my guess is that you'd see that particular set do more poorly sales-wise. "Justin's Creative Workshop" likely won't sell as well.

A lot of the concept behind LEGO Friends is about the audience identifying with the characters. IE, "which LEGO Friend are you?" That's part of why it's set in modern day times rather than being overly fantastical like Elves or Disney Princess. Those are fantasy worlds, but Friends is "the real world". One of the things they aimed at was girls who often engage in imagining what their future life is going to be like a few years from now. The impression that I get is that for some girls age 7-9 (ish), there's a fascination with pre-teen or teenage life, where there's more independence from parents, and a stronger relationship with friends. Hence, the LEGO Friends lineup attempts to capitalize on that. And while a girl has an easy time identifying with Stephanie or Olivia or Andrea, she's less likely to identify with a male character.

Elves is a different concept-- it's more focused around a fantasy world and story problems. So it's (in my opinion) more likely to be inviting conceptually to boys, while simultaneously not turning off as many girls with a male character.

On a slightly unrelated note, I'd love LEGO to create a completely gender balanced theme.

It would certainly be interesting to see-- I think the closest thing we might get would be something similar to the LEGO Movie, where it's crafted to encompass the brand as a whole. Generally for product design, the gender is a huge factor. But for something like movies, part of the goal is to be broad and appeal to a wider audience. So, more likely to see a balanced cast in a movie licensed product than, say, Ninjago, Friends, City, Chima, Elves, etc. I admittedly was sad that we only saw Wyldstyle and Unikitty as primary female characters in the LEGO Movie. With roughly 8 main characters, I thought they could have easily made 1 or 2 more of them female, without losing anything. Hopefully the sequel will be more evenly distributed!

DaveE

[rodiziorobs]

(snip)

I agree with pretty much your entire post, especially in regards to the different approaches to Elves and Friends in terms of design. I think you've nailed it.

:slowclap:

[gamejutzu]

It would certainly be interesting to see-- I think the closest thing we might get would be something similar to the LEGO Movie, where it's crafted to encompass the brand as a whole. Generally for product design, the gender is a huge factor. But for something like movies, part of the goal is to be broad and appeal to a wider audience. So, more likely to see a balanced cast in a movie licensed product than, say, Ninjago, Friends, City, Chima, Elves, etc. I admittedly was sad that we only saw Wyldstyle and Unikitty as primary female characters in the LEGO Movie. With roughly 8 main characters, I thought they could have easily made 1 or 2 more of them female, without losing anything. Hopefully the sequel will be more evenly distributed!

Well to be fair other themes have a somewhat balanced gender distribution already. City is improving for example.

In a theme focused on characters, i'd say Ninjago could be the most balanced. There's at least 5 female characters (in sets), and they have all been main protagonists at some point (in the show), two even being main antagonists for some time. In fact the next season of the show is stated to focus mainly on two siblings (brother and sister) and their parents. The show's writer said that both siblings are in the show's intro for an equal amount of time as well, showing that one isn't prioritized over the other. What's even more interesting is that the brother was considered the main character of the entire theme in it's early years. You'd think they'd feature just him. The set boxes will likely have a female on them too, and boys would still buy the sets.

I would like to see this with Nexo Knights. I think if they have a new knight it should be female. If the role of Black Knight doesn't go to who we think we will, a female could.

Edited August 26, 2016 by gamejutzu

[davee123]

Well to be fair other themes have a somewhat balanced gender distribution already. City is improving for example.

Yeah, although its primary market is still boys, and most sets contain male figures. Typically the sets that have females in them also contain males.

I think where we're seeing "City" (not really City) starting to be more gender balanced is what they're doing with the "Creator Town" lineup, where there are houses and stores rather than emergency vehicles and such. If they continue making more day-in-the-life sets that might attract more girls, the gender balance may get even better.

In a theme focused on characters, i'd say Ninjago could be the most balanced. There's at least 5 female characters (in sets)

Really? My count is something like 80-or-so named characters in Ninjago, and only 5 females? I don't know nearly all of them, but that'd be about 6%. Nexo Knights has a lot fewer characters, and they've got at least 4 females. Rock Raiders had 6 characters and 1 female-- 16.67%. The first Knight's Kingdom had 2 females and 8 named characters I think-- 20%. No idea about Chima. Knight's Kingdom II may have been the worst-- I don't think there were ANY females named or unnamed. Elves has 10 named "humanoid" characters (not counting dragons, etc), and 3/10 are male, so 30%. Actually, counting "named" figures (instead of occurrences), Friends has 10 males and 32 females, making it about 24%. Not too bad, although Elves is closer.

In fact the next season of the show is stated to focus mainly on two siblings (brother and sister) and their parents. [...] The set boxes will likely have a female on them too, and boys would still buy the sets.

Well, the problem is typically as noted above-- sets with BOTH male and female figures will do fine with boys-- the problems are usually the ones with JUST females. When kids play with minifigs, usually they identify with one or more characters. Imagine, for example, two kids playing and one says "I'll be Batman, you be Robin". The act of controlling a figure signifies identifying with it. So as long as boys have a male character to identify with, they're usually ok. The trouble is when there aren't any male figures in the sets, in which case they're very hesitant to play with the toys.

What would be interesting to see is how sales of "lone females" have done compared to the rest of the lineup-- how well does Ultimate Macy sell? Or the Nya/Samurai X spinner sets? From what we've been told, boys don't usually want them as much as the other sets, but the few girls that are into the theme are probably all over them.

I would like to see this with Nexo Knights. I think if they have a new knight it should be female. If the role of Black Knight doesn't go to who we think we will, a female could.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how Nexo Knights develops, and whether or not it follows similar patterns to Ninjago. I haven't paid too much attention to the Ninjago storyline, (even less to Chima!), although I've seen a bit more of Nexo Knights. There are certainly more apparent similarities between the dynamics in Ninjago and Nexo Knights-- but I guess it remains to be seen. LEGO's still pretty new to making storylines that are this fleshed out. Most of their earlier stories were pretty lightweight, except maybe Bionicle and Galidor.

DaveE

[PicnicBasketSam]

I don't particularly follow the gender politics about this stuff... my main complaint about minidolls is how un-functional they seem compared to minifigures, really, but they should totally put more female characters in Nexo Knights. I know the main draw to many kids is how the SET looks, not who's in it, mostly... unless Superheroes or Star Wars, too much of the time... I mean, I don't care about the characters of Nexo Knights, all the heroes seem pretty interchangeable, but the awesome vehicles seem like they would be more important to someone who doesn't watch the show or something. However, if they did an evenly balanced Exo Force reboot with minidolls, I'd be totally fine with that. They look more manga-like if decorated properly, and the pilot of a Humongous Mecha is much less important than the mecha itself.

[gamejutzu]

Really? My count is something like 80-or-so named characters in Ninjago, and only 5 females? I don't know nearly all of them, but that'd be about 6%. Nexo Knights has a lot fewer characters, and they've got at least 4 females. Rock Raiders had 6 characters and 1 female-- 16.67%. The first Knight's Kingdom had 2 females and 8 named characters I think-- 20%. No idea about Chima. Knight's Kingdom II may have been the worst-- I don't think there were ANY females named or unnamed. Elves has 10 named "humanoid" characters (not counting dragons, etc), and 3/10 are male, so 30%. Actually, counting "named" figures (instead of occurrences), Friends has 10 males and 32 females, making it about 24%. Not too bad, although Elves is closer.

The TV show is where a lot of those 80+ characters originate from anyway. There's so much demand for several characters that LEGO can't keep up.

And do you mean 80+ original characters, or 80+ minifigures? There are a lot, and I mean a lot, of Ninjago variant outfits. It makes up a large percentage of the entire NInjago line up in general.

Also I was talking about main protagonists. There are 5 females who were main protagonists at points in the show.

If we talk about general characters in the show, it bumps to a much higher number. I was just talking about the male and female characters who are relevant. No one really focuses on goons and the likes, and even a few of those are female.

I'm not calling Ninjago balanced or anything, but I do think it's universe is pretty diverse with gender.

Edited August 27, 2016 by gamejutzu

[davee123]

And do you mean 80+ original characters, or 80+ minifigures?

I was talking about named figures like Cole, Frakjaw, Bytar, General Kozu, Slithraa, Bucko, Dareth, Dogshank, etc. I basically looked at the named characters in the BrickSet database. There are about 93 of them listed, but some are generic, like "Ninjoid Drone" or "Soul Archer", so I didn't want to count them. By my count, there were 11 generic characters, and 1 duplicate (Garmadon vs Lord Garmadon), and a few others that COULD be duplicates (I'm not familiar enough with the characters to know). So I was guessing about 80-ish. BrickLink, meanwhile, lists 245 variants, which are a lot of different versions of the ninjas and various characters.

Also I was talking about main protagonists. There are 5 females who were main protagonists at points in the show.

Have they all been made into minifigures? I know of female minifigures Nya, Cyren, Claire, Misako, and Pixal, I think. But I thought Cyren was an antogonist, and I think Claire supposedly wasn't in the show? And obviously there might be various "evil henchmen" that are female, but I honestly couldn't say which genders they all are without doing a bunch more research myself.

If we talk about general characters in the show, it bumps to a much higher number. I was just talking about the male and female characters who are relevant. No one really focuses on goons and the likes, and even a few of those are female.

I'm mostly talking about the toys rather than the show. Boys don't mind watching female characters, but they are less inclined to play with them as toys. If there are a lot of female protagonists that haven't been represented as minifigures, I think that probably underscores the gender bias.

DaveE

[Aanchir]

I was talking about named figures like Cole, Frakjaw, Bytar, General Kozu, Slithraa, Bucko, Dareth, Dogshank, etc. I basically looked at the named characters in the BrickSet database. There are about 93 of them listed, but some are generic, like "Ninjoid Drone" or "Soul Archer", so I didn't want to count them.

Soul Archer actually is a named character even though he doesn't sound like it. Some of the more minor named ghosts are hard to really count as discrete characters, though, because there are around a dozen named ghost minions who share just three designs. Some share the same entry in the Brickset database, but others have their own entries due to having varying neck accessories. But you're right that Ninjago has between 70 and 80 discrete minifigure characters so far.

I'm certainly frustrated with the imbalanced gender ratios among Ninjago baddies, particularly since many in the show are mere stock characters, and many like the snake and ghost underlings have designs that could be either gender.

The sky pirates are better than most earlier villain factions, with two female baddies (Dogshank and Cyren) out of eight named crew members (counting Monkey Wretch, who is not listed as a minifigure on BrickLink). But even then, there are some choices that puzzle me. The show has at least one additional unnamed female crew member, yet instead of her, one polybag this year has a completely different and unique costume for Cyren that never appears in the show.

The total number of female Ninjago characters who exist as minifigures is eight: Nya (9 costumes), Pixal, Skylor, Bansha, Misako, Claire, Dogshank, and Cyren (2 costumes). Nexo Knights is off to a better start, with 3 female heroes and 2 female villains out of 10 hero characters (counting Merlok) and 11 villain characters (counting the Book of Monsters and the "buildable figure" villains) in just its first year. Still far from balanced, but better than Ninjago's overall track record, if LEGO can keep it up that is.

[davee123]

Soul Archer actually is a named character even though he doesn't sound like it. Some of the more minor named ghosts are hard to really count as discrete characters, though, because there are around a dozen named ghost minions who share just three designs.

Huh, interesting-- so ballpark 8/70 to 8/80 named characters that are female (and have been minifigs). So around 10% - 12%, I guess?

Nexo Knights is off to a better start, with 3 female heroes and 2 female villains out of 10 hero characters (counting Merlok) and 11 villain characters (counting the Book of Monsters and the "buildable figure" villains) in just its first year.

Difficult to figure out which characters "count", of course! But with that, it'd be 5/21, so about 23.8%?

So, also hard to decide what constitutes a "story" based theme, but in percentage female for "non-licensed" story themes:

76% - Friends

70% - Elves

23.8% - Nexo Knights

20% - Knight's Kingdom I

20% - Pharaoh's Quest

19% - Adventurers

18.1% - Alpha Team

16.7% - Rock Raiders

16.7% - Monster Fighters (tough call)

15.8% - Agents

14.3% - Atlantis (unsure about baddies)

14.3% - Exo-Force

13.6% - Ultra Agents

12.5% - Galidor

11% - Ninjago

0% - Knight's Kingdom II

0% - Time Cruisers

And a few that I'm intimidated by:

Bionicle

Chima

Hero Factory

Mixels

So... as of my current count, Elves is actually the closest to balanced! Interesting!

DaveE

Edited August 29, 2016 by davee123

[Soupperson1]

So... as of my current count, Elves is actually the closest to balanced! Interesting!

That's probably because of the lack of figures in Elves. :P It'll be interesting to see if mini doll numbers ever increase will we see the same diversity.

Oh Exo Force had a female as well.

As for the Ninjago comments I don't really think having a female protagonist makes up for the lack of female characters. Wasn't Pixal the second female character in 2014...why couldn't a snake or in nindroid or skeleton be female? Miasoko and Claire are only in a single expensive set. Characters like Skylor, Dogshank, Cyren and Bansha are refreshing but you can't deny there was three years with little to no diversity besides one female character somewhat front and center trying to hide it.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Soupperson1

[davee123]

That's probably because of the lack of figures in Elves. :P It'll be interesting to see if mini doll numbers ever increase will we see the same diversity.

Yeah, plus the fact that Johnny Baker is pretty minor, and just-so-happens to be male! If they had opted to avoid him, it'd be 22% rather than 30%-- quite a jump!

Do we know how Elves is performing monetarily? The few times I've tried to get a smidgen of an answer from LEGO reps on this, they can't tell me.

Oh Exo Force had a female as well.

I totally missed that, thanks! (above post edited)

why couldn't a snake or in nindroid or skeleton be female?

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that female characters popped up in the "baddie" list more frequently in Chima and Nexo Knights (or, it feels like more frequently, anyway-- I haven't actually analyzed Chima much). I wonder if that was primarily because Ninjago came first, before the others, and they've since adjusted the formula?

DaveE

[Aanchir]

Huh, interesting-- so ballpark 8/70 to 8/80 named characters that are female (and have been minifigs). So around 10% - 12%, I guess?

Difficult to figure out which characters "count", of course! But with that, it'd be 5/21, so about 23.8%?

So, also hard to decide what constitutes a "story" based theme, but in percentage female for "non-licensed" story themes:

76% - Friends

70% - Elves

23.8% - Nexo Knights

20% - Knight's Kingdom I

20% - Pharaoh's Quest

19% - Adventurers

18.1% - Alpha Team

16.7% - Rock Raiders

16.7% - Monster Fighters (tough call)

15.8% - Agents

14.3% - Atlantis (unsure about baddies)

13.6% - Ultra Agents

12.5% - Galidor

11% - Ninjago

0% - Knight's Kingdom II

0% - Time Cruisers

0% - Exo-Force

And a few that I'm intimidated by:

Bionicle

Chima

Hero Factory

Mixels

So... as of my current count, Elves is actually the closest to balanced! Interesting!

DaveE

Exo-Force has one female character, Hitomi (Sensei Keiken's granddaughter). So Exo-Force's human cast is 1/7 female.

Chima has a pretty diverse range of female characters: Eris (5 costumes), Crooler, G'loona, Windra, Rinona (2 costumes), Spinlyn, Li'ella (2 costumes), Maula, Sibress, Vultrix, and an unnamed Lioness Soldier. But Chima also has a very large cast overall. The total ratio of female minifigure characters comes to 11/80 characters, or 10/72 named characters. Four of the named female characters in Chima are heroes and six are villains.

I forgive you for not wanting to tackle Bionicle. The typical set of six Bionicle characters includes one female character, but all too often when this rule was broken, it was in favor of more male characters, not more female ones. So of non-animal characters in sets who could be said to have a specific gender, only 14 out of 115 or so in generation one (2001-2010) are female, and in generation two (2015–2016), only two out of 17 are female. This does not count characters who exist only as alternate models or combination models.

Hero Factory sets had one female hero out of nine, and one female villain out of the 21 that can be considered individuals and not species.

None of the named Mixels characters who appear in sets are female.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Aanchir

[Sarah]

None of the named Mixels characters who appear in sets are female.

How do we know if Mixels are male or female? I've been considering them non-gendered when viewing and playing with them. Does the cartoon treat them differently?

[davee123]

How do we know if Mixels are male or female? I've been considering them non-gendered when viewing and playing with them. Does the cartoon treat them differently?

I know some of them have genders on their bios on LEGO.com-- for instance:

"[...] Teslo is the lookout for the yellow tribe of Electroids. He has an electrically charged tail but is afraid of heights! [...]"

and

"[...] LUNK might not be the brainiest, or the most graceful when waddling across ice balancing on his stubby hands [...]"

No idea how many of them are described as "male" that way, though. Most don't have an ascribed gender in their bio (just some). The only ones I saw that had genders were male, though.

It was pretty similar for the Collectible Minifigures, too-- the bios would USUALLY ascribe a gender, and you can be sure that almost ALL of the ones that COULD have been neutral were male. I think there were only a couple that expressly managed to remain neutral.

DaveE

[gamejutzu]

As for the Ninjago comments I don't really think having a female protagonist makes up for the lack of female characters. Wasn't Pixal the second female character in 2014...why couldn't a snake or in nindroid or skeleton be female? Miasoko and Claire are only in a single expensive set. Characters like Skylor, Dogshank, Cyren and Bansha are refreshing but you can't deny there was three years with little to no diversity besides one female character somewhat front and center trying to hide it.

PIXAL was the second female minifigure, but third to have an important role. Misako was introduced first in the show.

To be fair, the nindroids have pretty much no gender, as the sounds they make are basically hums and squeals. And they weren't made with gender in mind (probably). And as someone said, a few snakes are designed where they could be ambiguous. But the snakes were probably generally male anyway.

I do realize that this theme only stared to get diverse around 2015, but from there i'd say it's been alright. They could redeem themselves.

I also realize that I may feel this way because I really enjoy the show, and watching seeing new, old, and familiar faces may have made me think there was a lot more of a balance than I thought. I guess the show grew on me. Three-four years will really take a long time to cover up. If only they had the same amount of variation they have today. It's not equal now, but it's still better than before.

Also, I still say they reboot Exo-Force into a balanced cast. I can't wait for the day that happens.

Edited August 30, 2016 by gamejutzu

[davee123]

So, just to update with @Aanchir's numbers and a couple small corrections-- percentage of female characters out of "named" characters in various non-licensed narrative themes, out of actual figures produced:

76.2% - Friends (32/42)

70.0% - Evles (7/10)

25.0% - Knight's Kingdom I (2/8)

23.8% - Nexo Knights (5/21)

20.0% - Pharaoh's Quest (1/5)

19.0% - Adventurers (4/21)

18.2% - Alpha Team (2/11)

16.7% - Monster Fighters (1/6)

15.8% - Agents (3/19)

14.3% - Rock Raiders (1/7)

14.3% - Atlantis (1/7)

14.3% - Exo-Force (1/7)

13.9% - Chima (10/72)

13.6% - Ultra Agents (3/22)

12.5% - Galidor (1/8)

12.2% - Bionicle (1st Gen) (14/115)

11.8% - Bionicle (2nd Gen) (2/17)

10.7% - Ninjago (8/75)

6.3% - Hero Factory (2/32)

0.0% - Time Cruisers (0/4)

0.0% - Knight's Kingdom II (0/11)

0.0% - Mixels (0/81)

Interesting that for about 15 different boy-targeted lineups, the percentage hovers between 10% and 25%. Oddly enough, I think the stand-out theme there is Knight's Kingdom II. It had a bunch of characters, but never (to my knowledge) ever had any females at all. Mixels are so genderless that they seem forgivable, and Time Cruisers had so few characters that it seems similarly acceptable. But where are all the girls in Morcia?

... I think I'm going to go ask one of the concept designers if he knows the answer to that...

DaveE

[Artanis I]

Did KKI have a story? What about Fright Knights, it would be 50% female named characters...

[davee123]

Did KKI have a story? What about Fright Knights, it would be 50% female named characters...

I basically tried to include everything where the majority of characters were named. I know Fright Knights named Willa and the Bat Lord, but I'm not aware of other characters having names. There are a few other themes here and there with named characters ("The Black Falcon", "Alpha Draconis", "Governor Broadsides", "Majisto", "Ann-Droid", "Robin Hood", "King Kahuka", etc), but those themes seemed to consist of mostly generic characters.

The first Knight's Kingdom characters all had names, and there WAS a storyline, although I don't know much about it. For some reason, I remembered Cedric the Bull having once been Leo's most trusted knight, although I was never able to locate where I heard that retroactively. It had a computer game (not sure of the storyline), and a storybook ("Medieval Mischief and Mayhem").

There might be other qualifying themes (Life On Mars, maybe?), but these are the ones I'm aware of that were more character-based.

DaveE

[gamejutzu]

I guess you could say that the knights theme always went by the book. Have we ever gotten a female Lego knight besides Nexo Knights?

I'm not really interested in minidolls, but I can see their appeal. It could be really cool to have a collection of all these unique and cool characters. The model may even be revised to fit new molds and shaping. Maybe even hip and torso accessories, like royal armor and things in a similar vein. Maybe a stand for a small animal to go on a figure's shoulder? After all, minidoll themes seem to like them.

Point is, they definitely need more variation, in the sense that I am also irritated by how many clones we see, as if LEGO believes no one will notice or care that someone could have 2 or 3 of the same figure, especially in what appears to be Elves' case.

Edited August 31, 2016 by gamejutzu

[Artanis I]

I guess you could say that the knights theme always went by the book. Have we ever gotten a female Lego knight besides Nexo Knights?

The princess in KKI.