Death battle

[Bigger Fish]

If there was a Toa vs Hero factory death battle episode, who would compete and how would it play out?

I think that it would either be Tahu vs Stormer, or both teams against each other. (7 Toa in their master forms with their old golden masks vs the 9 IfB Alpha team members with all their weapons.) I also think that the Toa would win due to sheer elemental power as opposed to the Alpha team's numbers and arsenal.

[DraikNova]

Hero Factory would win. HF is, first of all, better organized than any of the Toa teams, allowing for better use of tactics than the haphazard and uncoordinated operation of almost all organizations in BIONICLE barring the Order of Mata Nui and the Shadow Hunters. Need I remind you of the way the Toa acted for the first few years? "I work alone, even though every time I've tried that resulted in Makuta almost beating us." Second of all, the fact that the civilization HF comes from is capable of space-flight gives them the ability to retreat after fighting Toa and let's them do hit-and-run-style attacks. The fact that HF has an R&D team means that, if these attacks went on for long enough, they could probably analyse and duplicate any abilities the Toa have. Thirdly, HF has been in operation for a long, long time, and the current level of technology of the civilization in which it resides indicates that they've been able to store data reliably for a similarly long (probably much longer) period of time. Not to put all too fine a point on it, the HF civilization has hundreds of years of advances in psychology, tactics and pretty much every field of science, due to the aforementioned and the fact that it has had cross-contamination from various wildly varying cultures of completely different species and therefore minds. Meanwhile, while legends are passed on for thousands of years in the Bionicle universe, very little of that time has been spent* trying to study things or develop new things.

*by anyone other than the GBs.

Edited January 22, 2015 by DraikNova

[Chimaninja454]

Først of all. Tahu would win... Just saying...

[Bigger Fish]

I was honestly thinking it would be pretty close. The Toa have the advantage in terms of elemental power while the Alpha team would have the advantage in terms of variable arsenal and maybe numbers.

[DraikNova]

The weaponry Hero Factory has is pretty closely matched when compared with the elemental powers of the toa. Need I remind you that HF is almost always using what is considered non-lethal force in the episodes? And even those weapons tend to cause Michael Bay-class explosions. Add in a vulnerability to getting punched in the face and the toa get curb-stomped within minutes.

EDIT: Also, the toa code prevent them from killing. HF has been shown to be willing to kill infants if there's even a chance they will turn out to be criminals. See Breakout (Evo) and Invasion from Below (everyone). Note that Evo was not told to stop because of you know, the fact that it would be infanticide, but because there's a chance they might hatch.

Edited January 22, 2015 by DraikNova

[Bigger Fish]

This is going by Death Battle (the web show) rules in which both sides fight to the death. I could easily see Surge being taken out by Gali soaking either him or his electricity weapons before they fired seeing as how he's not immune to his own shocks if said water wasn't connected to Gali.

[DraikNova]

I'm pretty sure that HF would have isolated Surge from his own weapons. For that matter, all of the heroes, being robots and therefore especially vulnerable to electricity, would probably be built to resist shocks. Meanwhile, in the process of using her powers, Gali would be providing a low-resistance route for the electricity, straight to her. Sure, Surge's electrical weapons would probably be useless afterwords, but HF also has generic guns, like the plasma blasters. Meanwhile, HF has cloaking tech (if I remember correctly), antigravity systems (like toa of gravity) and the ability to make people insubstantial (is that the right word for it?) while still somehow remaining capable of reflecting light and avoiding sinking to the core of the planet they're standing on*. All they'd have to do is cloak a couple of heroes** to assassinate the toa one-by-one. Sure, the toa don't need tech to access their abilities, but that's not much of a comfort when you're running on a single, slow-to-recharge battery*** and your opponents can basically throw away and replace their weapons as often as they want. Nova Blasts might level the playing field a bit, but they would also level your teammates.

*They would also have to find a way to keep air from entering the space they're in while the heroes are insubstantial. You can't hear any sound from air rushing into the spot the heroes were standing in when they used that at the end of Rise of the Rookies, in case you're wondering.

**Or turn them insubstantial, or use any one of the technologies invented by the HF civilization. Like I said in my first post on this topic, HF has a massive advantage regarding the sheer number of (tech-enabled) abilities they have access to. They can combine these to form billions of potential tactics and pick the best one of these. And even if I'm wrong and it was never mentioned in the episodes, invisibility is probably easier than antigravity, considering that we've managed to do so on a small-scale already. Google metamaterials if you're curious.

***Elemental energy needs to recharge, after all.

Edited January 22, 2015 by DraikNova

[Bigger Fish]

The heroes wouldn't have any advantage if they used battle machines because Invasion from Below showed that they could be taken out really easily. (Like having them trip over a chain, for example.)

Also, Surge shocked himself in Brain Attack when trying to take out a brain slug.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Bigger Fish

[One Very Agile Cat]

Meanwhile, in the process of using her powers, Gali would be providing a low-resistance route for the electricity, straight to her.

How? I mean, I'd like to imagine Gali isn't rock stupid enough to create a plum of water from her body to her enemies, and would instead materialize the water off her person, as the Toa often do with their powers. Especially if it was Gali Nuva, where the Toa Nuva had many tricks they could pull with their elements, like "time bombs."

I mean, the Toa are essentially demigods of their elements. And as Bigger Fish said, the Heroes weren't exactly the most logically designed robots. Despite their multiple gimmicks and tech, they were incredibly reserved and even often bumbling in their use. (this was largely due to that fact that most Hero abilities are simply the product of narrative convenience and sloppy writing)

Also I believe the word you're looking for is "intangible." Also, a Toa's elemental energy takes a lot of use to run dry, even for normal Toa. Nuva can fight even longer.

[Timeline15]

Assuming we're using the toa from Bionicle 1 (which makes sense, since we know nothing about the powers of the new toa), then there would be no contest. A toa of fire could melt any hero near him with a single thought. A toa of iron could rip them apart (since their powers seem to extend to other metals for some reason). A toa of earth would be equally powerful. Heroes are durable, but probably couldn't survive being crushed by a giant fist of earth.

Basically, the toa were always horrendously overpowered. Not that I'm complaining, I was just always surprised about how far their abilities went. One toa could probably take on the entire factory to be honest, and this is coming from someone with no animosity towards HF what so ever. The factory's only advantage is that it can keep on churning out heroes, but it would surely be destroyed eventually. One targeted strike would destroy the only hero factory in the galaxy. an attack the toa could easily pull off.

Of course, if the toa elect to follow the Toa code, things get a lot more complicated.....

Edited January 22, 2015 by Timeline15

[Bigger Fish]

My original intention for this topic was going to be a conversation of how a battle between the Toa Mata and the Alpha 6 team would play out on an episode of Screwattack's Death Battle. Like who would fight, what form would they use, who would win, and so on and so forth.

[The Kumquat Alchemist]

Why don't we take this a step further and pit a Teridax-controlled Mata Nui against the whole HF universe?

[Bigger Fish]

We should email Screw attack to request this fight.

[Timeline15]

I feel like the appeal isn't wide enough for them to ever accept. Sure, lots of people know what Bionicle is, but only people in the fandom are even remotely invested in its "rivalry" with hero factory, and I imagine most people have only heard of HF through their own children, if at all.

Regarding your actual question, it would make sense for stormer, furno, and rocka to use their XL forms, and for the toa mata to use their nuva forms (or Tahu his golden armoured stars form) hough, as I said they could probably walk it in their mata forms anyway.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Timeline15

[bacem]

hmm, if this actually happens, and lego actually makes this, it would probably goes like this:

alpha team is dispatched to a foreign planet, where an island called mata nui exist. they were dispatched there because th HQ sense something unusual and unsettling there (which will be revealed that the source is makuta). when alpha team arrives on the mata nui, they meet the toas and, due to some misunderstanding, fighting each other, where the fight has no winner and keeps goes on, until they realise that they're actually fighting a common enemy. after the misunderstanding resolved, the toas and alpha team members joining hands and helping each other on fighting evil.

[DraikNova]

Here's why none of the toa, even if they all worked together, could ever beat HF:

HF seems to manage an entire galaxy. I looked up what the average amount of stars in a galaxy is, and while there isn't a clear consensus, most estimates are in the 100-500 billion range. Let's say the HF galaxy is relatively small, and has about 100 billion stars. Then we assume that there's usually only one planet per star (which is very innacurate, but this is still enough for our purposes) and only one in a hundred worlds is populated (either indigenously or through colonization). The average birth rate here on Earth is 4,8 people per second. If we make a guess and say that the average birth rate/construction rate per world is about 3, that means that per hour 3*3600=10800 people are born per populated world, and 108 * 10¹¹ in the whole galaxy. An hour is a good estimate for how long an average act of crime takes. If one in a thousand people performs a (significantly) criminal act once in their lives, that means that per hour, 108*10⁸ people will perform a criminal act. If the total number of dangerous situations is twice that of the number of criminal acts, and it takes an average of two heroes per situation, that means that, at any given moment, 432*10⁸ heroes will be out there. That's 43 billion. But wait. Every single villain Hero Factory has ever captured escaped during the Breakout, and they had enough heroes to send one after each of them. Let's say that HF was active for 50 years (a low estimate, considering that, if Makuro's speech in Rise of the Rookies was at all accurate, several Alpha Team leaders have existed and been decommisioned in that time). 50*365,25*24*108*10⁸ = 4,73364*10¹⁵ heroes. There were at most 10000 toa in the MU at any time, which means they would have been outnumbered forty billion to one. The average hero might be around 2,1 meters tall. The Matoran Universe was 40 million feet tall. That's 12192000 meters. Therefore, the MU weighed (12192000/2,1)³ = 1,95689254 * 10²⁰ times as much as a hero. Advantage: MU.

That isn't the whole story here, though. In a galaxy of any size, there's bound to be a few Death Star-type weapon platforms. All HF would have to do is surround the planet the MU is on with them completely and start to fire on it. The MU has, as Teridax demonstrated, a weakness to blunt instruments. If it tried to take off, it would crash into one at a far higher speed than the "moon" was probably moving. If it used it's gravity powers, it would be crushed by them. If it just stood there and tried to fire lasers at them, it would be hit by the fire of several of the weapon platforms, destroying the MU.

Suffice to say, HF has advantage in numbers. Specifically, the advantage in the number forty billion.

Edited January 23, 2015 by DraikNova

[Logan McOwen]

HF: Guns and pyrotechnics of various kinds, Battle Machines, combat training, vast numbers, ability to upgrade.

Toa: Elemental powers, golden masks, melee weapons, Protectors with blasters

Honestly? The Heroes by a long shot.

[Dr_Chronos]

Whelp. Time to bring out the popcorn and watch the show

*munch*

[Timeline15]

That was my reaction when I read the opening post, but thus far everyone has taken the discussion very seriously, actually weighing them up in terms of power rather than who they like better. Cautiously optimistic. XD

[Jetrax99]

HF: Guns and pyrotechnics of various kinds, Battle Machines, combat training, vast numbers, ability to upgrade.

Toa: Elemental powers, golden masks, melee weapons, Protectors with blasters

Honestly? The Heroes by a long shot.

Pretty much this, though I do love seeing DraikNova getting technical in pure Death Battle fashion.

[Bigger Fish]

HF: Guns and pyrotechnics of various kinds, Battle Machines, combat training, vast numbers, ability to upgrade.

Toa: Elemental powers, golden masks, melee weapons, Protectors with blasters

Honestly? The Heroes by a long shot.

I mentioned earlier that the Battle Machines wouldn't be that much of a threat to the Toa due to their lack of durability in the IfB episode. Also, I think that if there was a death battle episode between the two teams, they would use the Nuva forms for the Toa and the IfB versions of the heroes with access to all of their weapons. (The MTIS, Plasma blasters, Hero cuffs, and the fire shield that's great for blocking fire Etc. etc.)

[bacem]

I mentioned earlier that the Battle Machines wouldn't be that much of a threat to the Toa due to their lack of durability in the IfB episode. Also, I think that if there was a death battle episode between the two teams, they would use the Nuva forms for the Toa and the IfB versions of the heroes with access to all of their weapons. (The MTIS, Plasma blasters, Hero cuffs, and the fire shield that's great for blocking fire Etc. etc.)

I agree about toa in nuva form, but I don't think alpha team would use battle machines on this battle, since the battle machines only used to fight giant beast, so unless they gonna fight giant Rahi, i don't think they use battle machine, even as an option.

I think the pairing would be:

Tahu nuva vs furno xl ( fire based power)

Kopaka nuva vs BA stormer (ice based power)

Gali nuva vs BA evo (water based power)

Onua nuva vs BA bulk (battle of brute strength)

Lewa nuva vs breakout breez (mid-air battle)

Pohatu nuva vs rocka xl (stone based power)

Edited January 24, 2015 by bacem

[Timeline15]

Thing is, toa, unlike heroes, can't be harmed by their respective elements, due to their ability to control or destroy it. So with those match ups, only the heroes would actually get hurt by anything :P

[bacem]

Thing is, toa, unlike heroes, can't be harmed by their respective elements, due to their ability to control or destroy it. So with those match ups, only the heroes would actually get hurt by anything :P

but, wouldn't a hero would be built to be resistance, if they made to be elements based, like furno xl is build to be able to use a fire based attack, so shouldn't he'll built to be able to withstand fire and flames?

[Timeline15]

does someone who carries a flamethrower automatically have resistance to flames? I don't think the heroes have ever been shown to be resistant to their element (later heroes like evo and new didn't even have one)

If Furno had been resistant to fire, he wouldn't have needed the 2.0 upgrade just to beat the fire villains IMO.