Girls in action themes?

[Dorayaki]

A very random question, but I'm curious about how most consumers and kids think.

In earlier themes, we simply see that female minifigures seldom appear in action themes, from Agents (more than 2) to Power Miners (no girls). Howeve, it becomes more obvious when TLC focus on more media marketing like cartoon and games. When we see actual stories, there are no longer generic minifigures but "characters", and the result is girls still have very little participation in those plans for action themes.

In the first focused media story Ninjago, we had four ninja boys and then got another one in series two. Though there was a red samurai who seems to complement this team, we don't see her more important role in later stores (much like Hitomi from Exo-force).

In Chima, though the story provides a brave main heroine Eris, there are not many female worriors in the whole Chima world. Still, they add villainesses that Ninjago didn't include.

Well, it doesn't mean that all girls ask for more girl minifigures, or every theme has to be girl-friendly The fact is undeniable that boys are still the major consumers of action themes. It's more like a question of perception: do only male protagonists appeal consumers to buy the sets? Can't female characters look brave and cool and win their heart? Though we do get many amazing brave heroines so far, I think TLC still have to go on higher levels in story designs.

In Friends, which targets at girls, has the same thing that boys seldom appear in their story. The only difference could be that girls can do their own interests, but they look irresponsible when world crisis come and all the duty are left to boys (just imagine that Ninjago City is actually Heartlake City).

The other solution can be that TLC can find other successful licenses which introduces female protagnists, and it could chance the viewpoint of consumers.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Dorayaki

[Faefrost]

I'm not sure what the question is? Most of the more recent action themes include at least one well defined named female protagonist and one similarly names major female antagonist. The weakest of the more recent offerings is probably Ninjago (which honestly is dialed in to be crystal meth for 7-9 yo boys) .

But Monster Fighters, decent female protagonist, awesome female villainess. Agents had 2 named female leads and I think 3 villains. PQ had a female hero. Chima has a good mix of female characters. (Granted each tribe just has one.) Atlantis had one (heck she was the main character in the movie). And speaking of movies, next years Lego movie theme looks to have plenty of well refined female minifig action.

[obsidianheart]

I suppose I am also at a loss for what exactly is being asked or discussed here? Are you critiquing LEGO's decision to skew action themes to the male gender? Because while I can see that point, and am at a disadvantage when discussing any kind of discrimination in marketing since I am a member of the most often-targeted demographic combo, I don't know what you're asking for. An all-girls or girl-heavy action theme could very well lead to a poor sales situation for the company because a lot of boys wouldn't buy it out of fear of being teased mercilessly by their peers for playing with "girl toys". Another thing to consider is the potential for less-reputable media outlets to seize that opportunity to write up scathing reviews of a girl-centric action theme for "promoting violence against women".

Girl action themes are a risk for any company, because if they don't outright sink sales-wise, you can also get all sorts of creepy fandoms popping up and making things uncomfortable for a lot of the legitimate fans.

On the plus side, LEGO is first and foremost a building toy. You're not required to "stick to the script" with the themes, and can build your own legion of female Power Miners (I suggest using Jet from Rock raiders as one, just for theme-synch) or a gaggle of apprentices for Ann Lee to go slaying with, or even a Nya-led rival gang of spinjitsu masters.

When I was a kid, they all had the exact same head, so they could be whatever gender.

[Peppermint_M]

I too am confused a little (

) All of the action themes bar Power Miners did have girls. Helena in PQ was a strong and independent character, not someone who was used for bait as a damsel in distress. Agent Trace was depicted rescuing a male agent in Agents and Dyna-Mite and Clawdette were antagonists with style and a role beyond femme fatale with thier own unique armaments (literal in Clawdette's case, a-heh).

Eris in Chima is a little better defined than "the chick" (the puns, they burn!) and while Nya is a little shafted in the series Samurai X has a pretty nice Mecha in theme sets (more than poor Hitomi had).

As boys who these themes are aimed at are at the "ew cooties" stage when it comes to girls the female characters are not as marketed as the male. It is just the way things go. No matter how they are marketed, llittle boys at some stage in their life decide a role in their head that girls should have despite any role-model you care to name, (even my younger brothers had a stage where they were mightliy confused by my tom-boyish attitudes, hobbies, clothes and lifestyle despite me being comfortably within that archetype since before they were born). It just seems to be life whena child's thought process is less complicated.

If you could clarify, we could address the issue better?

[Dorayaki]

I'm not really good at clarifying an issue, but among all coments I guess Peppermint_M's corresponded to the qustion in my mind.

On the plus side, LEGO is first and foremost a building toy. You're not required to "stick to the script" with the themes, and can build your own legion of female Power Miners (I suggest using Jet from Rock raiders as one, just for theme-synch) or a gaggle of apprentices for Ann Lee to go slaying with, or even a Nya-led rival gang of spinjitsu masters.

Well, the topic is about "script", because it represents the way TLC do.

Are you critiquing LEGO's decision to skew action themes to the male gender?

An all-girls or girl-heavy action theme could very well lead to a poor sales situation for the company because a lot of boys wouldn't buy it out of fear of being teased mercilessly by their peers for playing with "girl toys".

The topic was to talk about the major action themes we have now, not to come up with a totally new theme that only features girls. As you said, it's literally a theme for girls, and it receives less attention from boys. Perhaps TLC would think about it one day if they got enough female customers.

Eris in Chima is a little better defined than "the chick" (the puns, they burn!) and while Nya is a little shafted in the series Samurai X has a pretty nice Mecha in theme sets (more than poor Hitomi had).

But Monster Fighters, decent female protagonist, awesome female villainess. Agents had 2 named female leads and I think 3 villains. PQ had a female hero. Chima has a good mix of female characters. (Granted each tribe just has one.) Atlantis had one (heck she was the main character in the movie). And speaking of movies, next years Lego movie theme looks to have plenty of well refined female minifig action.

I did say "we got many amazing brave heroines so far". TLC do know how to make "female heros", but I don't really see that they can create more of them as diverse/many as the male ones.

For the upcoming The Lego Movie, since we only see three protagonists so far, I don't really think there's need for other girls besides Wyldstyle.

No matter how they are marketed, llittle boys at some stage in their life decide a role in their head that girls should have despite any role-model you care to name, (even my younger brothers had a stage where they were mightliy confused by my tom-boyish attitudes, hobbies, clothes and lifestyle despite me being comfortably within that archetype since before they were born). It just seems to be life whena child's thought process is less complicated.

I think that's the point I'm worried about. The new action themes look more like what normal boys think and want, while TLC don't usually play a role that gives new attitudes.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Dorayaki

[Vindicare]

I think the issue with this may be(more or less) Hollywoods doing. More often than not an action movie revolves around the good guy saving the girl in some form or another.

[obsidianheart]

It goes back much, much farther than just Hollywood, I'm afraid. Look at comics, pulp adventure novels, or even traditional legends. Always a group of guys hanging out, vanquishing evil, making merry, what have you. Maybe there's a girl, maybe there isn't. If there is, she's usually either someone's love interest, or in trouble, or both. There are, of course, exceptions (Mulan, Joan of Arc, ect.) but usually it is pretty formulaic.

[Aanchir]

Chima is better than a lot of past action themes, with FOUR female characters out of thirty minifigures, and at least one other in the show. I hope it's a sign of things to come. I've seen a large number of dedicated Ninjago fangirls online, and TLG really ought to try and capitalize on the theme's potential appeal with that demographic.

[Mandate]

Well, if you want gender equality you should have seen LEGO Universe. Doesn't count as an action theme, but effectively it fits every role and action theme required. One of the leaders of the Nexus Force (Vanda Darkflame) was a girl, and quite a few other characters were too. You had Melodie Foxtrot, Sky Lane, Coalessa... and a heap of female vendors. That's just a handful of them. There was Peppermint Lane, etc. Heck, three of the four main Moderators for the game were female.

But anyway, I think NINJAGO has done a (decent) role in terms of female characters. Misako was independent, but while Nya was pure awesome at times they played the Damsel in Distress role twice, and that twice too many times for most people. But I think Chima is a worse offender, they're only in the background and do squat other than serve as filler roles. I don't think that other than Eris any of them have had proper dialogue and have contributed to the story in any meaningful way.

[Aanchir]

But anyway, I think NINJAGO has done a (decent) role in terms of female characters. Misako was independent, but while Nya was pure awesome at times they played the Damsel in Distress role twice, and that twice too many times for most people. But I think Chima is a worse offender, they're only in the background and do squat other than serve as filler roles. I don't think that other than Eris any of them have had proper dialogue and have contributed to the story in any meaningful way.

True. I don't think Ninjago has nearly as bad a problem with gender issues in story as in the sets. Still, the sets are the foundation of the theme, so it's a problem that should be addressed.

As a BIONICLE fan, I recognize it's a tricky issue. With action figures in particular, boys are not as likely to buy visibly female characters. BIONICLE only once exceeded a ratio of one female character to every five male characters. In 2009, there was only one female character out of twenty-four characters with specific genders. It only had three female villain sets in its entire lifespan (its successor, Hero Factory, hasn't had a single female villain, and only one of the nine recurring heroes is female). BIONICLE, like Ninjago, had its share of dedicated female fans, but most of them were interested primarily in the theme's deep, character-driven story, not its sets.

Still, it's frustrating to see girls who are passionate about the Ninjago story, but who have barely any female characters in the sets for them to identify with, and no female villains they can use as a foil. Sure, Nya's a pretty awesome character who is talented at building and engineering as well as fighting (even in her debut appearance, she was established to be a better blacksmith than Kai, even if her only story role was as a damsel in distress). But suppose a girl has a very different personality, or very different interests? Is it any surprise that about 90% of the original Ninja characters I've seen illustrated are female characters designed to offset the theme's imbalanced gender ratios?

I don't want to get my hopes up too high this year, but wouldn't it be awesome if one or more of the Nindroid baddies were female, or if Misako were added to the sets? I'd certainly love that, and I'm sure a lot of the theme's female fans would as well. Of course, as far as social progress is concerned, I'm glad so many female fans have been able to identify with the theme's male characters in spite of their gender. But I feel like girls who love Ninjago deserve more diverse options.

[Oky]

I think the answer is pretty obvious. TLC always does a lot of market research before creating new themes and the fact that they design their themes with few females in boy oriented themes and few males in girl oriented themes shows that boys relate better to male characters and girls relate better to female characters. And the success of those themes proves that Lego's market research is right.

We as adults look more for gender equality (I thought that Nya was grossly underutilized in Ninjago for example), but no matter what we think, this is what kids seem to want, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I think as long as TLC keeps throwing at least one strong female character into each action theme, it'll be fine.

[Aanchir]

I think the answer is pretty obvious. TLC always does a lot of market research before creating new themes and the fact that they design their themes with few females in boy oriented themes and few males in girl oriented themes shows that boys relate better to male characters and girls relate better to female characters. And the success of those themes proves that Lego's market research is right.

We as adults look more for gender equality (I thought that Nya was grossly underutilized in Ninjago for example), but no matter what we think, this is what kids seem to want, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I think as long as TLC keeps throwing at least one strong female character into each action theme, it'll be fine.

True, but I'm just hoping the four female characters in Chima are an indication that this trend might be changing and the LEGO Group is aware of it. Of course, it's possible that kids just aren't as likely to discriminate by gender when dealing with animal characters. Only TLG can really tell us what their reasoning was, but overall, I think we're getting to a point in society where gender differences aren't as much of a hurdle when it comes to identifying with characters.

I read this article recently that dealt with that issue. It may be overly optimistic to think this breaking of gender barriers is immediately going to apply the same way to toys and merchandise as it does to media, but I have to hope we're heading in that direction. Who knows? Perhaps if enough adults are willing to look beyond gender in both toys and media, that cultural shift will eventually begin to rub off on the younger generation.

[Brawl]

This is a 'problem' that extends far beyond the reach of Lego and into the world of reality. Generally speaking, young girls are not attracted to action series. Genetically females are programmed to enjoy more passive entertainment, while males tend to be more aggressive. Of course, this certainly isn't always true, especially within the most recent generations.

There's nothing mysterious about action shows not featuring more than a handful of female protagonists in western culture. However, if you go to the East you'll find that this is very common indeed, but usually for different reasons..

[Sandy]

I think it's only educational to include strong female characters in action themes, even though the target demographic might not relate to them or even dislike them. It shows children (especially the prepubescent boys that are the main demographic) that women can fill other roles than that of a mother or a damsel-in-distress.

And a female minifig in an action themed set is sure to encourage at least some girls to buy that set.

I was a "quirky" child when it came to LEGO sets, because all it took was for the set to include one female minifig to make me want it. That's why Paradisa was a big hit for me, despite the pink boxes. I guess I wanted equality to my playing sessions. I remember that at one point I had a whole of nine female minifigs, and I was so proud of that.

Nowadays I've lost count, but there are plenty enough girls among my collection of 1500 figs.

[Dorayaki]

It goes back much, much farther than just Hollywood, I'm afraid. Look at comics, pulp adventure novels, or even traditional legends. Always a group of guys hanging out, vanquishing evil, making merry, what have you. Maybe there's a girl, maybe there isn't. If there is, she's usually either someone's love interest, or in trouble, or both. There are, of course, exceptions (Mulan, Joan of Arc, ect.) but usually it is pretty formulaic.

There are comics and novels about a group of girls hanging out and making merry---- but not vanquishing evil in adventure legends. We can see those Friends have different personalities, and the plot writers do know how to make different female characters rather than a typical love interest or trouble maker. It becomes even ironic that Lego represents imagination and creativity.

As I said, the question is about TLC themeselves: are they sometimes pioneers of equality and maybe enducation, or followers of market all the time? From what they've done, I'm worried the answer is the latter.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Dorayaki

[obsidianheart]

They have to stay in buisness, and what you're lamenting the absence of would be a huge gamble, so in that regard, yes, I suppose they do follow the market at all times.

However, that's only if you're willing to overlook all of their other innovations in favor of gender-bias in marketing and minifig inclusion.

[Lyichir]

There are comics and novels about a group of girls hanging out and making merry---- but not vanquishing evil in adventure legends. We can see those Friends have different personalities, and the plot writers do know how to make different female characters rather than a typical love interest or trouble maker. It becomes even ironic that Lego represents imagination and creativity.

As I said, the question is about TLC themeselves: are they sometimes pioneers of equality and maybe enducation, or followers of market all the time? From what they've done, I'm worried the answer is the latter.

Friends is somewhat pioneering in its own right, as a building toy for girls that is fully equitable to the traditional "boys' options" (and it has been followed by other major building toy brands trying to get in on the girls' building toy action, with considerably less impressive results).

I think Lego is going to play it somewhat safe, as far as new themes for girls are concerned. Lego has had unprecedented success in an untested market with the Lego Friends theme, but they won't want to risk oversaturating that market and potentially cannibalizing Lego Friends sales. But that isn't to say they won't make progress. I think before a girls' action theme happens, we'll see other, more time-tested girls' brands being converted to the building toy medium. There is a rumored Disney Princess theme for next year, which, while licensed, allows for more fantasy elements than the relatively grounded Friends theme. Perhaps in the future we'll see it break into more action-y territory; drawing perhaps from the Magical Girl or Superhero genres.

As far as integrating more female characters into other themes is concerned, I think Lego is progressing, albeit more slowly. Legends of Chima in particular has four distinct female characters this year, the first "action theme" to have so many female characters in a single year's sets. Although I too would love to see more female representation in Ninjago, which, while maybe the best story theme Lego has done in some time, still fails to pass the Bechdel Test.

[Dorayaki]

Chima is better than a lot of past action themes, with FOUR female characters out of thirty minifigures, and at least one other in the show. I hope it's a sign of things to come. I've seen a large number of dedicated Ninjago fangirls online, and TLG really ought to try and capitalize on the theme's potential appeal with that demographic.

I think Chima is a case different from traditioal action themes, which have a complete team consisted of main characters. It features tribal warroirs and only some of them take bigger charges. In gender ratio of total characters, I think female warriors are still few (at least one girl should represent each tribe), but in main characters I think it's fine. Another reason could be that this theme give little gender stereotype (no girl things visible on animals) so nobody really notice that.

I like Eris. For Crooler, she's a great villainess but doesn't have too many battles so far. Maybe in the final series she becomes the final boss and confront her parents and brother when they decide to unite with Laval.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Dorayaki

[DraikNova]

While I can't say much about Chima, I think Ninjago did a pretty good job with Nya. She's the strongest female character LEGO has thought up. And while the most recent season of the story mostly ignores her, almost all depictions of her portray her as as capable or more so than the main male characters. Case in point: as the Samurai she wiped the floor with most enemies the ninja couldn't defeat.

And while she's often the "damsel in distress", even so she manages to provide a strong character, holding off the ninja with ease when turned evil.

[obsidianheart]

As far as LEGO's propensity for casting the female in the "damsel in distress" role: I admit that that is often the case, and can see an argument for not propagating the stereotype. I still think it is unfair to single them out, or pin a large amount of hope on them to reverse the trend, when more often their fiction is secondary to their products, instead of vice-versa with larger companies like Disney or Warner. Most of their ladies will probably take a short turn in that role, because of the idealization by the boys they are primarily marketed to of "saving the girl".

And then Ann Lee came along, and she doesn't even have a "scared" face (just a scarred one).

[Aanchir]

My issue with female characters in action themes isn't that they're treated as "damsels in distress" so much as that there's rarely more than one "token female" in a predominantly male cast. It's true, Nya is an amazingly capable character, but treating her as "the girl" in the sets is still a disappointment considering how many minor characters the theme typically has to work with. The lack of any female villains is a huge disappointment for me — there were seventeen Serpentine characters in 2012, and not one of them was identified as female, even though it could have been as simple as just using female pronouns for one of the existing figure designs. After all, very few of the Serpentine designs were explicitly masculine.

Legends of Chima broke away from that considerably, in that not only does it have four female characters in its first year, but two of those characters are villains. It's true, they're not all main characters. Crooler and Eris would definitely qualify as main characters, but Windra and G'Loona aren't nearly as central to most storylines. Still, the point is that there's variety. A girl (or boy) can choose to identify with any of those female characters depending on which one's personality they find most relatable. Even with dreadfully imbalanced gender ratios, there are options, and that makes a huge difference.

Monster Fighters was also pretty good about this, since in addition to Ann Lee it had a female zombie as well as Vampyre's Bride. It also had a smaller cast of characters overall than Ninjago had in its first and second years, so even a single "token female" would not have been nearly so bad.

[Dorayaki]

Well, if you want gender equality you should have seen LEGO Universe. Doesn't count as an action theme, but effectively it fits every role and action theme required.

But anyway, I think NINJAGO has done a (decent) role in terms of female characters. Misako was independent, but while Nya was pure awesome at times they played the Damsel in Distress role twice, and that twice too many times for most people. But I think Chima is a worse offender, they're only in the background and do squat other than serve as filler roles. I don't think that other than Eris any of them have had proper dialogue and have contributed to the story in any meaningful way.

Usually MMORPGs are aimed at older players who would like to play as girls or accept cool female NPCs, so it's not surprising that they can handle it. Meanwhile, some sepcial female hair designs don't appear in physical Lego molds (only Kai's hair became real).

Well, for me I'd like to see a "fighter" instead of "damsel in distress", so that doesn't count a better one. In Chima's physical sets, the problem is there are not many female minor warriors in the battlefront (like Crooler) so most of the minor sets still only include male fighters.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Dorayaki

[Mandate]

Usually MMORPGs are aimed at older players who would like to play as girls or accept cool female NPCs, so it's not surprising that they can handle it. Meanwhile, some sepcial female hair designs don't appear in physical Lego molds (only Kai's hair became real).

Well, for me I'd like to see a "fighter" instead of "damsel in distress", so that doesn't count a better one. In Chima's physical sets, the problem is there are not many female minor warriors in the battlefront (like Crooler) so most of the minor sets still only include male fighters.

I'm sorry, what? Misako's hair piece is already real, if I recall correctly, and Nya's has been around since the Indiana Jones line...

[Aanchir]

I'm sorry, what? Misako's hair piece is already real, if I recall correctly, and Nya's has been around since the Indiana Jones line...

I think Dorayaki is referring to LEGO Universe hairstyles, not Ninjago hairstyles.

[Faefrost]

Weird and slightly diversionary question. Do Lego's competitors get asked questions about female figs? I only ask because I happened to be wandering around TRU yesterday, and it dawned on me that Megabloks does not appear to actually have ANY female figs in their sets? ( excepting as near as I can tell, a very tiny Cortana in a large Halo set). I noticed it because I went looking for a World of Warcraft fig for my wife's character, and came to realize that they somehow skipped out on the whole XX chromosome thing. And not just in the licensed lines. I mean there was nothing even remotely feminine in ANY MB set.