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Ashi Valkoinen

WIP-LDD-MOC: Westbahn Stadler KISS (Dosto)

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Hello everyone,

I'd like to share with you my new WIP MOC, which is the six waggon double-deck electric motor unit of Westbahn, the Stadler KISS (or it the type's former name, Dosto). I designed this train using my Stadler FLIRT modell's nose, but completely changed the other parts. The KISS trains has normal waggons, while FLIRTs do have Jacobs-boogies, and three waggon of KISS is 75 metres long, as one four-section FLIRT-train.

I've only designed the first (and last waggon), with detailed interior, of course. For indoor lights, front-tail lights there are designed free spaces, but I'm afraid I'll never face the problem, hiding all the PF wires without consuming space from the passangers because of the cost of such a train*.

(*Of course, if anyone wants to sponsor this train, don't hesitate to contact me :D )

An overall LDD-picture:

wip_07.png

And you can find more details following these URLs (pictures are wider than allowed sizes for the EB forums):

http://www.brickshel...KISS/wip_08.png

http://www.brickshel...KISS/wip_09.png

http://www.brickshel...KISS/wip_10.png

http://www.brickshel...KISS/wip_11.png

I guess the whole trains weight will be around 6 kilogramms, so a really clever solution for driving it will be needed, if ever built. The waggons with driver cab will could have a 9V train motor, and a PF train motor connected to it, and maybe one or two middle waggons should be powered like this. But more than 800 mA will be needed to drive it, so special speed regulator can't be avoided.

Edited by Ashi Valkoinen

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Hello

Looks very good so far. Of course a picture of a whole 6 car train would be nice if you ever built it. I also like the solution for the roof with the different slopes. Maybe you could try for the paint scheme to add the light blue stripe between the blue and white part as in the original paint scheme. The interrior is awesome :thumbup: do you also have a interrior for the cab?

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Maybe you could try for the paint scheme to add the light blue stripe between the blue and white part as in the original paint scheme. The interrior is awesome :thumbup: do you also have a interrior for the cab?

Hello,

Yes, I wanted to add the narrow light-blue strip, but after trying it in LDD I decided this detail could be sacrificied and I built some SNOT chesse slopes in it. But after the Holiday I'll try it again, maybe looks better with the waggon finished.

And no, I haven't designed it, it's still using my old FLIRTs sand-green control panel, I'll modify this too, now I have this website for interior, so I don't have to travel to Vienna-West to make some photos:

http://www.kaemena36...n/WestbahnTour/

Edited by Ashi Valkoinen

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Hi!

First of all: Merry Christmas!!!

Secondly: The train really looks good (I haven't take them, but I've seen them in real life). I have seen a 7-wide model on the Viennese Model Fair in real life this year, but I can't remember seeing images of the model somewhere on the web. I might be able to somehow get in contact with the builder, if you're interested.

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Nice! to you think that gonna have a good scrtutor? my double deck have some problems ons virtual version and when i build have to reforce the inside

love the colors!

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ScotNick,

I made a quick google search, but of course, nothing result. I found only one picture, with keywords Modellbau Messe 2014 Wien, the KISS is in the background:

http://www.apfelblick.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/modellbaumesse-wien-4.jpg

As far as I can see, pattern made smooth by stickers, but if you can give me contact to the author, please send it to me.. :)

Sergio,

it should be strong enough, i use the same design on my Siemens Taurus locomotive to make the roof sloped (the upper floor's sloped wall). Two hinge parts should be enough for it, but to keep the wall in its place I can add more hinges with sacrificing seats. But of course, these 64 stud long waggons need IRL testing, but I used all the tricks I learnt from my previous FLIRT-project and 60 stud long waggons to design the train for running.

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I finished the train in LEGO Digital Designer, here are some pictures and details, and driver's cab for Stefaneris, too. :)

After finishing it in LDD I started to think about how to make such a train moving. Building all the details (including the expensive-looking dark blue floor with tiles and jumpers) the train will include 10114 parts in 254 lots. (Looking for sponsors :D ) After a quick estimation, it will be around 6 or 7 kg-s, which means I can't make it move with powerfunctions due to the current limit of the receiver units. So solution should be 9V based - but truly said if I'll ever have the money for the train, I won't have it for at least six of 9V train motors which need quite lot maintaince if you want to run your train at events a lot, so I plan to use two PF train motors attached to one 9V. Second bogie will be 9V, one of the PF ones will be the first bogie and the other one is the third, of course all this system doubled at the other end of the EMU.

wip_16_s.png

wip_12_s.png

Roof solution with SNOT-ted and and not SNOT-ted parts:

wip_18.png

Cafe-corner:

wip_17.png

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Very nice. For the PF motors, have a look at SBrick! (https://www.sbrick.com)

They have 4 outputs, and don't need to be visible, as they are Bluetooth controlled.

You can configure each output to be reversed, so controlling multiple PF motors simultaneously is no problem.. ;-)

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Thanks for the idea, I'll think about it, but I don't know the specification for SBrick and it's current limit. When I coupled my two FLIRTs together (8 motors and 8 kg-s) it took around 5 ampers from the track on 9V, I guess this train will need it too. Using any remote system as SBrick or original PF-receiver is limited by the current capacity of it parts (and if using one battery box I'm really afraid of burning the power function cable).

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Thanks for the idea, I'll think about it, but I don't know the specification for SBrick and it's current limit. When I coupled my two FLIRTs together (8 motors and 8 kg-s) it took around 5 ampers from the track on 9V, I guess this train will need it too. Using any remote system as SBrick or original PF-receiver is limited by the current capacity of it parts (and if using one battery box I'm really afraid of burning the power function cable).

From their FAQ:

The SBrick can safely handle 1.5 Amperes per channel. The overcurrent protection of the chip will engage somewhere between 1.6 and 3.5 amperes.

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That is a quite massive train.

Would it possible to receive electricity from the track and then control it with the SBrick?

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That is a quite massive train.

Would it possible to receive electricity from the track and then control it with the SBrick?

....like with a motorless 9v motor?

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For the question about PF: 2 XL Motors with a gear ratio 3:5 are able to pull a 4kg heavy train through 180 degree curves, maybe even more. If you build your KISS without interrior (however, it would look a lot better with interrior) I guess it is possible to power it with PF. I used my Trans Europ Express for scale: https://www.flickr.c...57633185923370/

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thanks for everyone for your comments and ideas about how to drive this monster.

I'm sure that only 9V-based solution could do this, even if I remove itnerior it will remain around 5 kgs, and XL motors are powerful, but slow, Idk how to make it run fast.

Edited by Ashi Valkoinen

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Here I have my luck, Stadler delivered 4-section KISS 2 to Westbahn. The colour scheme is not the beautiful like the previous one was for 6-section trains, and I have to redesign the front part (since KISS 2 trains have new front design as the TSI regulations got stricter in Europee), but only 4 waggons, I have a better chance to collect all those parts for the train!

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/first-westbahn-kiss-2-emu-ready-for-commissioning.html?channel=529

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So I took my LDD to redesign the train with four sections and the modification such as KISS2 front design, different colour pattern and new, manually openable doors.

Following pictures show the result.

This 4-section train is much more affordable, then build a 6-section one, and also fits to my train station's plaforms. Its length will be 16 sections of 9V straight track. However, it won't be cheap, tons of white (and since white bricks often get yellowed, I need new parts) bricks needed. Also the train is capable of 200 km/h speed so I need quite lots of motors driven from separated battery packs to make the LEGO thing move fast.

After suggestions got in this topic of SBrick and my experiences with synchronised SBricks in my Stadler FLIRT EMU-s I decided to equip the train with a following setup:

Each driving car and one middle car next to it will have its own battery pack and SBrick. SBrick ports will be used for:

-Front/tail lights, direction 1 - three white lights for driving car 1, two red lights for driving car 2

-Front/tail lights, direction 2 - two red lights for driving car 1, three white lights for driving car 2

-Interior lights, three pair of PF-LEDs for each car, 1 pair for lower floor, 2 pairs divided by upper floor and waggons ends.

-Driving (two PF train motors under driving car, or maybe three motors, two under driving cars, one under middle car, if sum up of 4 motors won't be enough for speed).

Since the current limit of the battery pack limits the number of motors I can put on SBrick, and 2 or 3 motors won't give enough speed (and since the estimated weight is around 7 kgs, they will die fast), I need two SBricks for proper speed.

Also I'll need some extension cables and polarity switches for motors and lights. Fortunately there will be enough space in the train body itself to hide these elements.

And now, photos.

For first, the entire train. From this view of point it looks nothing changed on the front, but I changed all the cheese slopes outside to 1×2 45° slopes with cutout.

wb_wip_kiss2_01_sm.png

The curve of the front changed, it is visible from this sideview:

wb_wip_kiss2_03_sm.png

Door mechanism. The height of the door is 7 studs, which equals to 17,5 plates, while the height of surrounding bricks is 18 plates (6 bricks). The 0.5 plate high gap divided into two parts (top and bottom) and the cheese slopes on door edge allows to open and close them without friction.

wb_wip_kiss2_02_sm.png

Once again, stairs, side-door and cafe-corner in middle waggon:

wb_wip_kiss2_08_sm.png

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Just now seeing this for the first time. Wow! this looks incredible! When are you going to build it with real bricks?

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Nice work. As usual. I didn't consider SBricks for my own trains yet. But now looking at your plans it might be worth looking into it.

And you will show us the finished train, right? I am looking forward to that.

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Donat nice work, but I would use curved slopes for the front for the more modern look, also for the price of less detail in livery stripes.

Max

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Just now seeing this for the first time. Wow! this looks incredible! When are you going to build it with real bricks?

It may happen you didn't see this post since I started this topic in december of 2014, and bumped it up once with the updated LDD-model. I was sure I won't build the 6-section train, and now I'm sure I'll finish this ... once. Since the cost of bricks and electric parts will be high I can't tell you, when I finish with it (still having an east-europe salary and I have paralell LEGO and renenacment projects as well), but I'll build it with real bricks. I estimate one year to collect everything.

Nice work. As usual. I didn't consider SBricks for my own trains yet. But now looking at your plans it might be worth looking into it. And you will show us the finished train, right? I am looking forward to that.

I made couple of tests with SBricks provided by the manufacturer (they are hungarians as well). You can search for them here, but summing it up in two sentence: make sure you have a phone/tablet which handles bluetooth 4.0 standards as standards, and not some cheap chinese one. App communicates with SBrick well on better phones/tablets, while having problems connect multiple SBricks on cheaper ones. The playing experience is very nice with it.

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