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Ragnarök Now - Day Two


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#151 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:07 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

How about you start responding to everything? Or would that make you too suspicious? Or are you too good for that?

To tell you the truth, I don't really think it's necessary because I find your actions ridiculous. I can't see how anyone would expect results from such pressure and expect trust out of thin air, but let's try this.

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

I hope you don't think that will cut it. I'm pressuring you, because it's obviously needed. If you are really town, this is no way to respect the rest of the townies.

It's the best way I know how to respect the rest of the Einherjar. I'm bringing forward the information I think will help us make decisions. And at the same time, concealing the identities of people who may want to reveal their Night Action results without making themselves targets.

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

You waste the whole day, then basically split the vote with you buddies right at the end, without telling the reason why the original plan suddenly stops existing? No way, skraeling, no way.

This day is not wasted. There are a ton of people reacting and hiding and saying things that can prove to be slip-ups later and as we are picking off the last Scum, there is a ton of ammo in here to condemn them. When they are caught in their lies, it will be the stuff that was uncovered today and on days like this that will nail them. As for my vote, I'm not voting for Dragmall, and I don't expect anybody else to, so why would I not vote for another likely lead to follow? I've told you all I'm going to tell you about my interactions with Dragmall. We spoke with each other about the nature of the accusations and came to the conclusion that we should not be suspecting each other. Anything else that comes out of our discussions, I'll let the Town know when it potentially affects their decision.

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

No it does not cut it.

When do you expect me to want it? Tomorrow? No. Your verifying is megablocks. I told you I am vanilla, are you going to waste your investigator on that? Unlikely. And that's even assuming you aren't scum.

Your story does not cut it with me. I have no reason to trust you. None. I suspect you are just this way and need to be pushy to know what's going on, but last time I suspected that you turned out to be a mole and you had me pretty fooled for a while. You're very smart and very tricky and I don't trust you and can't trust you for no reason. I keep repeating this, that's probably why I won't respond to everything you say, line by line. So, how many ways can I tell you I won't be giving you any information?

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Perhaps this Artemis exists, but what's the chance she'll be blocked or killed tonight. You tell me, boyo.

If I tell people who it is, the chances certainly get higher.

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#152 Scubacarrot

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:29 PM

You responded to only a fraction. Let people make their own decision now, your veil is thin, you are caught. You can split the vote further people, or you can see the obvious. And Hervi, don't put words in my mouth like in your last sentence, it's too obvious.

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#153 Scouty

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:01 PM

There are few precious hours left in this day and I'm at a loss as who to vote for. Right now I'm not completely sold on Bergulf's actions...I wasn't very impressed by his responses earlier today. Whether that amounts to something, I'm trying to think it through.

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

You responded to only a fraction. Let people make their own decision now, your veil is thin, you are caught. You can split the vote further people, or you can see the obvious. And Hervi, don't put words in my mouth like in your last sentence, it's too obvious.
You're over thinking things like I did.
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#154 Scubacarrot

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:34 PM

View PostScouty, on 16 October 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You're over thinking things like I did.

How.

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:16 PM

View PostFugazi, on 16 October 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Sorry to quote you so extensively Gerrid, but why are you speaking in two voices? I hear you first sentences in your usual manly womanly voice, yet the rest of your statement is more subdued, as if you were borrowing someone else's voice. Or to make myself clear, as if you were simply copying a statement prepared elsewhere, perhaps in some scummy meeting place? Somewhere where you could polish you reply under the scrutiny of your cultist friends, until it becomes this perfect example of rational defence you served us with? Let's hear you explaining this one, with the help of your mentors.

Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)
After reviewing everything else he has said today, this is about the only thing that seems remotely suspicious about Gerrid. Most of the initial suspicions seem to be coming out of Finn's gut feelings about how a townie should act, there is nothing wrong with that and he could very well be right, but I want us to keep in mind that this is mainly what we are basing that accusation upon.

Leaving aside Hervi and Dragmall, the same could be said of Bergulf.

View Postbadboytje88, on 14 October 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I understand you are suspicious of me, heck I would be suspicious of me if I wasn't me. So I am going to take my time and try to address your suspicion of me as good as I can. I know I am town. I know I messed up choosing my words yesterday, which happens to me more often than is good for me. Danr defended me. Which at first I thought was really sweet. But after thinking it over it looked just odd. Why would you defend someone you don't know on day 1 without knowing if they are worth your defense? At that point it looked like a scummy thing to do. Apparently I wasn't the only one thinking that way. Since we lynched the poor guy. I feel terrible for voting of Danr. Really I do! When he told us his arguments for defending me I realized chances were small we were lynching a servant of Loki. Chance was big we were going to lynch one of our own. Did I change my vote? No. Did anyone else change their vote? Not that I remember, or maybe one or two people, but not enough people changed their vote to safe Danrs life. Do I feel guilty for lynching the poor guy? Sure I do. He tried to help him and eventually got lynched doing so. But there still was a chance he was a servant of Loki. And at that point he was the best option we had. So we went for it.
As has already been noted by Petrus, this statement seems quite unlike what we had come to expect from him. Now I trusted Danr, evaluation of Bergulf yestereday, but considering the offness of this statement today I'm open to reconsideration. In fact, if it's based off of voting between Bergulf and Gerrid for making a statement that strikes me as odd, I'm more inclined to think Bergulf is the guiltier of the two, not too mention that he has more conversations that link back to him from many other individuals should he come up as scum. Thus I'm going to Vote: Bergulf (badboytje88)

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#156 Sandy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

I'll be damned if anyone can make sense out of this mess! :hmpf_bad:

Unvote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

I'm sorry, I can't vote anyone today since I really don't have a clue of what's going on. Why can't life just be one big party?!

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#157 Scouty

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

Spoiler

Just listen to yourself. You're taking strings of information and coming to weak conclusions. You're border lining tunnel vision, from the tone of your posts. One thing that severely weakens your case, in my point of view, is that you don't think Hervi's characters exist. I can vouch that they really do exist. I cannot vouch if they're einherjar, but I know that they exist (from Hervi's telling me and coming to my own conclusion).

This is a point I wanted to bring up in my case against Hervi, which was I believed that these people existed, I didn't doubt the validity of the information (except Hades and that whole incident) but I was concerned in how Hervi was using those people to his benefit, or if he really had the benefit of the einherjar in mind. The picture is a lot more complicated, which is why I unvoted Hervi.
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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:37 PM

View PostSandy, on 16 October 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

I'll be damned if anyone can make sense out of this mess! :hmpf_bad:

Unvote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

I'm sorry, I can't vote anyone today since I really don't have a clue of what's going on. Why can't life just be one big party?!
I can see that attitude coming from a day 1 situation, but day 2? If everyone feels that way where does this leave us for tomorrow? Yes we may obtain some information from those with special abilities amongst us, but take care lest we depend too much upon that alone and not enough on our own independent reasoning as well. Many of us are in the same long-ship as you because we are not always privy to the things going on behind the scene, but from 157 comments from people I would think there are at least some things that a vote can be based upon. :sceptic:

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#159 Scouty

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:11 PM

I've looked over the case of Gerrid and his subtlety through the day makes me suspicious of him. What convinced me was his post voting for Dragmall. It looked to be like a vote cast a time a scum would want to cast their vote. A subtle nod in when things were going against Dragmall.

This is the strongest thing I can pick out from the day among the mass confusion.


Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)
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#160 Scubacarrot

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:32 PM

The only ones I doubt exist are Poseidon and Aphrodite, and Hervi has no way of trusting either of those, so according to his own logic, he would never trust them. So what he is saying is that he is breaking his own holy rules in order to get two failsafes if both he, Artemis AND Demeter die. What. I can't see the reasoning there. I can't believe people are not seeing the fact Hervi goes out of his way not to answer me. That in itself should cause for suspicion. "I don't want to be pressured." Really? Really??? Come on, we all know Hervi is a big boy.

My conclusions aren't 'weak' Besides the fact that that is an opinion, read. You aren't reading. Because some people really don't like to do just that, here are my arguments in a nice format, easy to read!

Hervi occupied us all throughout the day with the case he set up against Hades, aka Dragmall. Now, for no reason, STILL NO EXPLANATION GIVEN, he calls it off, and instead votes for a sheep. What makes it all that more strange is that people seem to follow him on a whim on this matter.

He, in this (part of a) private message, was about to tell me the identity of one of his allies, which would make me trust him a bit more, reveal nothing but a vanilla townie that Hervi trusts. Win/Win, Right?

Hinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

I have to go to a meeting. Poseidon is a power role, Aphrodite is vanilla. Would you settle for the identity of Aphrodite?

Well no, since this is his next response (My response in between is that I said it better not be Mursi):

Hinckley, on 16 October 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

I appreciate that you want to be part of the Town block but I have to keep you at arm's length until I have a reason to trust you. Voting for Draggy in exchange for the identity of someone isn't reason enough. You know how I operate. I need to know I can trust you. I would rather you vote for me than potentially give away important Town power roles to someone who is Scum. Your aggressive behavior reminds me of someone who tricked me during Excalibur. Catch you on later, maybe on the same steamroller.

What's the problem here, the sudden change in attitude? I hit a nerve when I suggested Mursi was one of your accomplices?

I never said I want to be part of the town block, really, (I don't think there is one, perhaps people being tricked into the scum's grap, but town block, nah). If you are part of it and have an action, take a long hard look at Hervi, Mursi and whoever else is a part of it.

His responses in thread deliberately avoid certain things, YOU CAN'T DENY THAT. In a little book called the Temple Mafia or something a criminal mastermind did the same thing and bluffed his way to victory that way.

You have his responses to read through, to me they worry more than they set stuff to rest, but that's a personal thing, I don't like how he treats me like an eight year old in private, but that's a personal thing too. Don't make compliments and then treat me like I'm mentally ill, you maybe do that to your pigs, but I'm a strong woman, okay!

If it still classifies as weak for you, I would have to ask what people find so strong in the case against Gerrid. So the suspicious thing is that he is using a different font, which may or may not imply his speech was written by someone else. Not to play devil's advocate, but maybe he wrote some of his stuff on say, Word, maybe he just misclicked a button?

And how does this case differs from Bergulf whose words suddenly sounded a lot differently according to some people? Note that the person accused of doing that, was Hervi, and Hervi & Friends are lobbying against another sheep, Gerrid. I'm just saying.

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#161 CorneliusMurdock

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

He already explained why he didn't give you Poseidon's name, Snotra.  He offered you Aphrodite's.

But you said that if I was Aphrodite you'd vote for him right away.  So what's he supposed to say to you?  You're being a jerk about the whole thing.  I don't think that makes you scum but it doesn't make people want to play with you either.

Further, if you find me so suspect that Hervi's involvement with me makes him scum, come on out and bring out the reasons into the open.  I'd love to counter them like I thought I had at the beginning of the day.  

So in summary, get off your high horse, Snotra.  I'm Aphrodite.  Poseidon exists.  You good now?

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#162 Chromeknight

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:49 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

.And how does this case differs from Bergulf whose words suddenly sounded a lot differently according to some people? Note that the person accused of doing that, was Hervi, and Hervi & Friends are lobbying against another sheep, Gerrid. I'm just saying.

Hervi coached Bergulf.
At least, others have suggested it and neither have denied it, which is an admission of sorts.
Coaching is not, in and of itself, scummy hiding it is. It is disappointing that neither could be upfront enough to even shrug it of with a, 'I helped him sure, just like that time in (insert cryptic reference here)'.

The question that hasn't been asked yet is, if Gerrid has been coached, who by?
Fess up someone, laugh it off, step boldly into the light. Show you are less paranoid than Hervi and Bergulf.

Until that happens, I'm putting my marker on him to turn the screw a notch.
vote:Gerrid(captain Genaro)

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#163 Rick

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:50 PM

View PostChromeknight, on 16 October 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

If I recall correctly, Didn't Bergulf originally get in trouble for not parsing english persons correctly?
As I said, the rest of his statement seems pretty well-written this time. The mixup (him/me) might have occured because someone helped him prepare a statement, which he copied.

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As for my thought on why artemis' power is the way it is, it is a thought. I am not nearly as experienced at these types of things as others. So if you say it doesn't make sense game-wise, then I'll listen. I was only thinking out loud, trying to understand for myself.
Sorry. Yes, indeed, you contributed your thoughts about Artemis' role claim. I just don't think it's very likely the investigation would fail if one of his targets is blocked, but your guess is as good as mine.

View PostHinckley, on 16 October 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

You know my theory is that the Town needs as much info as possible and it's the best way to get everyone engaged. Too much back door dealings can only lead to the garden. This way is better because it puts everyone's balls on the table, so to speak...so we can all play table tennis.
I still fail to see the point of essentially telling the scum an important role that might exist on the town side. I already explained it was hard for us to reach a conclusion on the matter without knowing the actual people involved and their experience in these situations. Did our reactions to revealing Artemis role claim help you in evaluating his claim at all?

View PostScouty, on 16 October 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

This is a point I wanted to bring up in my case against Hervi, which was I believed that these people existed, I didn't doubt the validity of the information (except Hades and that whole incident) but I was concerned in how Hervi was using those people to his benefit, or if he really had the benefit of the einherjar in mind. The picture is a lot more complicated, which is why I unvoted Hervi.
I don't doubt Artemis exists and we now have people saying they're Demeter and Aphrodite. I'm just wondering what all this trust is based on on Day Two. What made them claim to Hervi? I don't see how his actions on Day One establish him as a trustworthy Einherjar. I'm just afraid Hervi might be scum and controlling them.

#164 Chromeknight

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:51 PM

Forgive bad grammar. I missed a period.

Coaching is not, in and of itself scummy.   Hiding it is.   It is disappointing...

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#165 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:59 PM

View PostChromeknight, on 16 October 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Hervi coached Bergulf.

No, I most certainly did not.

A bunch of sarcastic questions and conjectures have inferred that but I did not coach one word that has come out of Bergulf's mouth.

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#166 Sandy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:59 PM

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 16 October 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Many of us are in the same long-ship as you because we are not always privy to the things going on behind the scene, but from 157 comments from people I would think there are at least some things that a vote can be based upon. :sceptic:

I honestly can't make heads or tails from all these nicknames and roleclaims flying around, not to mention the fact that people throw accusations and in the next moment take them back. And if you think over 150 comments is going to make my job any easier, then you're sadly mistaken.

If you really want my "own independent reasoning" to vote someone, then I shall vote: Snotra Carrotface (Scubacarrot) for sending me a potato message that basically warned me about playing with fire. I know that doesn't affect anything, but I really don't respond well to thinly-veiled threats - if that what the message was about.

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#167 Scubacarrot

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:02 PM

I said I agreed to knowing Aphrodite's name, but hoped it would not be you indeed, Mursi. Am I being a jerk? Why? Because I am calling out Hervi on his behaviour I think is scummy? Am I jerk for suspecting you? Am I jerk for doing what I think is right? Perhaps, because you won't win then? is that your logic? Explain that, please.

The logical thing for him to say would be, "yes Aphrodite is Mursi, good eye, I lay down to get lynched now. What do you mean? How does Mursi implicate me?" Because that's what we should do, if you think a fellow townie is wrong, and Hervi has repeatedly said he assumes I am a townie, you try to correct that, right? Not doing that only makes me wonder if he wanted to hide that fact, as not to imply connection (scummy connection). He said he would rather have my vote than endanger his trusted, but you were/are never in any danger, are you not? And please tell me, what harm is there now that I know it is you who is Aphrodite, Mursi? Hervi obviously wanted to hide that, so please tell me there is a logical TOWNIE explanation for that.

Look, Mursi, I still suspect you, your whole defense against Danr's allegation that you made was basically: I don't think I was twisting his words. That does not cut it. You said he was being confusing. Reading back, I don't think he was, really. There's not really much to go on there, I have to say, but a dead man's words, whose words were absolutely 100% true, should be taken attention to, at least. What was more worrying was that you just seemed SO SURE of Dragmall's guilt, throughout the whole thing, up until Hervi and Dragmall call it a day, and you follow suit. In itself not a very convincing argument, and I don't dare try to get you lynched on that, but fact is that only the scum at this point can be sure of anything, so I am taking it into consideration, treat it as a valuable clue, and treat you with the right amount of caution for it.

I'm sticking to my vote.

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#168 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:03 PM

View PostRick, on 16 October 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

Did our reactions to revealing Artemis role claim help you in evaluating his claim at all?

There's almost 5 pages or so of reactions, plus the people who are starting conversations with me in private. That's definitely worth something. People can't be saying this much without revealing their lies...

View PostCorneliusMurdock, on 16 October 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

He already explained why he didn't give you Poseidon's name, Snotra.  He offered you Aphrodite's.

But you said that if I was Aphrodite you'd vote for him right away.  So what's he supposed to say to you?  You're being a jerk about the whole thing.  I don't think that makes you scum but it doesn't make people want to play with you either.

Further, if you find me so suspect that Hervi's involvement with me makes him scum, come on out and bring out the reasons into the open.  I'd love to counter them like I thought I had at the beginning of the day.  

So in summary, get off your high horse, Snotra.  I'm Aphrodite.  Poseidon exists.  You good now?

Thank you for verifying my play. I appreciate it and I apologize that you now have to deal with Snotra's brash attitude...

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#169 Fugazi

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:03 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

If it still classifies as weak for you, I would have to ask what people find so strong in the case against Gerrid. So the suspicious thing is that he is using a different font, which may or may not imply his speech was written by someone else. Not to play devil's advocate, but maybe he wrote some of his stuff on say, Word, maybe he just misclicked a button?
I'm not saying that his speech was written by someone else, but that he wrote it somewhere else using input from his acolytes. How many times since you are a member of this great hall did you accidentally change the tone of your voice in such a manner? Maybe -- maybe -- that Gerrid prepared a part of her speech in a different voice and simply repeated it here, but I'm still waiting to hear it from her.
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#170 Scubacarrot

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:04 PM

View PostSandy, on 16 October 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

If you really want my "own independent reasoning" to vote someone, then I shall vote: Snotra Carrotface (Scubacarrot) for sending me a potato message that basically warned me about playing with fire. I know that doesn't affect anything, but I really don't respond well to thinly-veiled threats - if that what the message was about.

If you don't want cryptic messages, don't make cryptic may or may not mean something messages in thread. And splitting the vote further, because that's terrific. Scum are laughing their megablocks off.

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#171 Sandy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

If you don't want cryptic messages, don't make cryptic may or may not mean something messages in thread. And splitting the vote further, because that's terrific. Scum are laughing their megablocks off.

I wasn't going to vote at all, but you can thank your a-hole attitude that I changed my mind. :hmpf_bad:

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#172 Fugazi

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:06 PM

What I meant above is:

Maybe -- maybe -- that Gerrid prepared a part of her speech in a different voice in a room all by herself and simply repeated it here, but I'm still waiting to hear it from her.
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#173 Scubacarrot

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostSandy, on 16 October 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

I wasn't going to vote at all, but you can thank your a-hole attitude that I changed my mind. :hmpf_bad:

Honestly I am getting really tired of people saying I'm an megablock and a dick and a jerk while they are no better themselves. Where have I offended you now?

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#174 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:17 PM

Oy veh! So I outlined why I thought Gerrid was not as suspicious as Bergulf, but would someone care to explain further, why exactly Gerrid is due our votes? Is it mainly her change of verbage tense?

Plus Hervi, what is with you trusting everyone (aside from Snorta that is)? Demeter, Artemis, Aphrodite, Poseidon, how can you be so sure none of them are playing the same role that Snorta did in the past? It's all well and good if you are town and you are actually leading us forward, but you've got to look at it from the perspective of those who aren't inside that circle, if you are scum then we are in a ton of trouble and all of this looks too convenient for you. :def_shrug:

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#175 Scubacarrot

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:20 PM

Right, So Hervi & Pantheon want to get Gerrid lynched. So let's assume in the around 4 hours that this day last they can gather the (by my count, it is a definite possibility I can't count) 7 votes they would still need to get a conviction. What then?

If she is scum? That would be great, would go a fair way to clearing Hervi in my eyes, and of course another scum down.

If she is town? We would have a lynched a sheep. I can't see any other benefit from that.

Keep in mind this is all based on the use of a different font and a slightly more well written part than we have seen before from her, without an explanation from her yet. If that explanation comes, do you think it can sway enough votes to get someone else convicted? Well no, I don't think so. While I would like a good, well written explanation like any other, the change in style is definitely odd, would it mean anything, really?

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