Baritones 3: Day Three

[Brickdoctor]

Do all my points seem valid? Boiled down, those who in the last moment unvoted me, or did not vote for me but Barbara instead, simply would not have done so if scum. It just doesn't make sense for them to do that. Seriously no sense. So everyone who did not take those actions are still viable scum. Make sense?

But that is entirely dependent on your allegiance.

[Zepher]

Which is why I said in my original post that this is only useful to those who trust me to be town. Who knows, maybe I'll be poisoned around lunch time and you'll all get a break and be able to start cracking. It's all if you think I'm some dumb scum who's quite literally throwing themselves at the gallows, or some dumb town member doing the same. I, Petr, would be happy to die to show my town the path. I am still rather hoping to be poisoned, it would give you a lovely list of 13 and a fighting chance.

[Shadows]

I refuse to believe that the scum get two kills a night and one during the day, that would be megablocking insane. Some of what went on has to be caused by the moon, like a misdirected kill by a vigilante (or another mistake, but I specifically asked that any vigilante BE MORE CAREFUL, didn't I?).

As for my thirteen suspects, those are the people who are not on my cleared list.

I've got a lot more than that on mine, and so does anyone else who isn't scum.

You must certainly agree that with a townie so close to death, the scum would not unvote him, nor would they place a vote for someone else when they could have easily voted for me instead.

Unless they wanted to use it as an alibi later, but that would take someone pointing it out. Oh, wait ...

The only thing I see out of yesterday is the scum voted late to split the vote and guarantee a bad night. Well, we sure as hell got a bad night, and I'd strongly suggest we don't let that happen again. That's our lesson for today. That, and anyone who gets close to Petr dies. Then is used as "evidence" that never helps us. Then another one dies. A pattern I'm not too comfortable with, one that says either he's scum, or he's unknowingly in contact with scum and talking too much. Even by his own admission, he's been talking too much since day 1 when the mass pm went out.

Seriously people, a little caution here until we know what we're dealing with.

[Rick]

Ah, but you see friend, they were not desperate. Not in the least It would have been EASY to send me over the edge, and if I had turned up town, would any of you have pointed fingers at the voters, claiming them to be scum? No. no, not at all.

The speed at which the bandwagon took off, without you even replying to accusations, certainly had me worried. So, those voters would definitely be scrutinized.

As for the smaller scum families theory, well, why believe something that hasn't been confirmed in any shape or form yet?

It's plausible as none of the kills so far are typical vigilante kills. Then there's the size of this town and agent Sky's words. I think it's very likely that we're facing two families.

You must certainly agree that with a townie so close to death, the scum would not unvote him, nor would they place a vote for someone else when they could have easily voted for me instead.

And the scum would know you think that, so they're in your 'cleared' book by passing up on what was not such an easy lynch after all.

Do all my points seem valid? Boiled down, those who in the last moment unvoted me, or did not vote for me but Barbara instead, simply would not have done so if scum. It just doesn't make sense for them to do that. Seriously no sense. So everyone who did not take those actions are still viable scum. Make sense?

It could make sense for the scum, because you apparently clear them for that reason.

I voted because I think a conviction always gives us at least something to work from. If not now, later when voting patterns become more important. But also, I wanted to avoid a penalty. And if it would be a penalty among the non-voters, I wouldn't want to be among them.

Speaking of the penalty. Does anyone have an idea of what penalty we actually faced/are going to face? Don't tell me the scum got two kills for that last night.

[Zepher]

Unless they wanted to use it as an alibi later, but that would take someone pointing it out. Oh, wait ...

Oh please. You bore me. What exactly are you suggesting? That I am scum, and that I had my other scum vote for me, and then we prayed that not enough townies would vote our way to save me, and then our plan was that the next day I suggest that they're not scum. What a ridiculous scheme.

The only thing I see out of yesterday is the scum voted late to split the vote and guarantee a bad night. Well, we sure as hell got a bad night, and I'd strongly suggest we don't let that happen again.

This has merit, and I over-looked it, I'll admit it.

That, and anyone who gets close to Petr dies. Then is used as "evidence" that never helps us. Then another one dies. A pattern I'm not too comfortable with, one that says either he's scum, or he's unknowingly in contact with scum and talking too much. Even by his own admission, he's been talking too much since day 1 when the mass pm went out.

Oh, and yes, i'm the clever clever scum that is publicly announcing that I have connections with those dying, sometimes even before their deaths. Try to use your head. Did I have to publish that Eugene and I were talking? No. I could have quietly have swept that under the rug. The same goes for Yuri. If he told me something that implied he had an action, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD I PUBLICLY LINK IT TO ME.

And the scum would know you think that, so they're in your 'cleared' book by passing up on what was not such an easy lynch after all.

I think you're largely over-exaggerating how badly the scum would want to be in my "cleared" book. I doubt highly that they'd give up killing me just to have me, someone the town clearly did not trust, say he trusted them. Also, please don't be stupid. I had 10 votes when Falicia and Denis voted, 11 when Timur voted, eleven again when Yuri unvoted me, and hell, I think more than that when Petra and Patrick unvoted me. Would a scum really do that? Would they UNVOTE me at that point?!

I am, however, afraid of falling into the "Jesus Trap" and becoming too confident in my way of thinking. Mull it over, I've put it out there to consider. I will try to keep an open mind and listen to what you all have to say. I ask you to do likewise.

[Shadows]

That I am scum, and that I had my other scum vote for me, and then we prayed that not enough townies would vote our way to save me, and then our plan was that the next day I suggest that they're not scum. What a ridiculous scheme.

I've seen it done. Seriously. But no, I'm suggesting something else ...

Oh, and yes, i'm the clever clever scum that is publicly announcing that I have connections with those dying, sometimes even before their deaths. Try to use your head. Did I have to publish that Eugene and I were talking? No. I could have quietly have swept that under the rug. The same goes for Yuri. If he told me something that implied he had an action, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD I PUBLICLY LINK IT TO ME.

No, it's quite likely that you're being used by someone you've trusted too much and it's getting people killed. It's also possible, especially in the case of Eugene, that you're trying too hard to look innocent by giving out information no one can confirm based on supposed conversations with a dead man. It's actually making you look bad, leaving the cautious members of the town wary of anything you say.

You might want to look at what information you have given and received and see if there's something odd in there, like someone telling you too much or suggesting things that aren't exactly working out well. Past towns have learned that they do better without a messiah trying to organize things and ultimately getting the wrong people killed.

That's what I'm suggesting, in a nutshell.

I doubt highly that they'd give up killing me just to have me, someone the town clearly did not trust, say he trusted them. Also, please don't be stupid. I had 10 votes when Falicia and Denis voted, 11 when Timur voted, eleven again when Yuri unvoted me, and hell, I think more than that when Petra and Patrick unvoted me. Would a scum really do that? Would they UNVOTE me at that point?!

Sure would cause confusion, wouldn't it? Who does confusion benefit most? Who scored a double victory last night and could easily head to another one if we don't get something going today?

[Dragonator]

It seems animal control went out of business, so I'm calling the zoo before that crocodile starts devouring living town members

I would be more concerned about who was kissing the horse.

I refuse to believe that the scum get two kills a night and one during the day, that would be megablocking insane. Some of what went on has to be caused by the moon, like a misdirected kill by a vigilante (or another mistake, but I specifically asked that any vigilante BE MORE CAREFUL, didn't I?).

I tend to agree, one of the people killing us is most likely on our side. Whoever it is, please be a little more cautious in your choices, as killing off townies is only helping the Mafia to a quicker vitory.

The only thing I see out of yesterday is the scum voted late to split the vote and guarantee a bad night. Well, we sure as hell got a bad night, and I'd strongly suggest we don't let that happen again. That's our lesson for today. That, and anyone who gets close to Petr dies. Then is used as "evidence" that never helps us. Then another one dies. A pattern I'm not too comfortable with, one that says either he's scum, or he's unknowingly in contact with scum and talking too much. Even by his own admission, he's been talking too much since day 1 when the mass pm went out.

The split in the voting is something that worried me greatly too, actually. Clearly the Mafia had some advantage over us last night, thanks to the lack of a conviction. In my opinion, the split didn't make much sense either; I still never heard the logical argument behind voting off Barbara.

As for you Petr, I'd suggest after yesterday you perhaps keep your head down a bit, you've caused us enough trouble so far as it is. Your "lists" seem extremely self-serving from what I can see, and I for one have no faith whatsoever in your loyalty to our town, and so will not be paying them any heed, thank you very much. It is insane to so quickly rule out the possibility of 10 people being scum just on the way they voted in a single day, and especially since I can't actually see the pattern that so clearly distinguishes them from the rest of us.

Yan, may I ask what exactly it was that changed your mind about Petr? Your sudden reversal in opinion indicates you have some new information for us?

[Fugazi]

Wow. It's early morning and insults are already flying. Please calm down people, let's try to figure this out slowly but logically!

I find it quite unlikely that Petr would be scum. Actually, the only scenario in which it would make some sense is that he was converted at some point and needs to maintain his high profile in order to be believable. But that too seems far-fetched.

There are likely scum among both groups -- my theory is that some voted early in order to create a bandwagon, others waited in the wings to see if it would pick up. Then when the lynch proved more difficult than expected, they might have decided to take the penalty instead. So I wouldn't put it past some of the non-voters or Barbara voters to be scum as well. Frankly, I think Petr is over-simplifying the situation by assuming that all who didn't vote him should be cleared.

While I understand that Yuri could have been killed in an attempt to frame Ruxana (or Petr for that matter), Elena's death is quite mysterious. As Stanislav mentioned a moment ago, we should consider that perhaps some of the actions were twisted during the night, and that Elena's death was a cruel mistake.

Finally, there are some people from whom we haven't heard much yesterday -- or since the start of this ordeal -- and I hope that they will let us know them better today. In such a large group it's easy to go unnoticed for a time, and those who aren't taking risks by speaking out their mind must be reminded that they're not gaining trust either.

[def]

I am a hundred percent sure I got Yuri killed, for which I am deeply apologetic. However, perhaps we can use his final piece of information?

I really think Yuri got himself killed. When he asked who we should be targeting at night (http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58848&view=findpost&p=1049713), I think he outed himself as a town special. Either that a mafioso fishing for info, but scum would know he wasn't scum and so he was a town special. Hopefully somebody else saw that and were tracking him, so his death wasn't wasted.

I was also thinking about Petr's claim of a vanilla townie role. I think this puts him in a prime position for recruitment, and will need to have an eye kept on him. I urge any other vanilla townies to keep it to themselves.

Oh, and have we figured out what's up with Ruxana? I've looked through what's gone on so far, and only saw repeated requests for clarification, but no clear explanations.

[Rick]

Oh, and have we figured out what's up with Ruxana? I've looked through what's gone on so far, and only saw repeated requests for clarification, but no clear explanations.

Indeed, Yuri, who maybe had an important (investigative) night action, turning up town only makes this issue all the more pressing.

To my recollection, only Yuri said something about it, which didn't exactly clear things up either. I think it's odd to be talking about a 'nasty' night action only based on 'suspicion'.

[Pandora]

The day has started off with heated debate, that's for sure, and losing poor Yuri and Elena overnight is awful; they were good people.

I've been concerned for some time that we have two scum factions to deal with and I'm glad other people are beginning to see this greater threat, but I still believe we have some actions missing if that is the case, so conversions remain a frightening reality.

That and the penalty. No-one was apparently struck by lightning or otherwise killed by an act of God, so I can only assume that God has caused some other effect on night events. Whether that's a redirection of targets or an inversion of readings some may receive - well about that we can only speculate, and with that I'm not convinced we can assume the person holding the tommy-gun on night one is the same person or the same affiliation as the person holding the tommy-gun last night.

I am still confused by the choice of targets, though. Of the five of us who've died I can't really understand why they'd be targets to either scum or town. The point about poor Yuri possibly having an investigative role is an interesting one, especially as he had claimed Ruxana had a "nasty" night action, yet when questioned late yesterday he said that Ruxana had proved to him by pm that his theory was untrue. I wonder, given that Yuri seemed so convinced that Ruxana was up to no good, what it was that Ruxana said to him that was so convincing, unfortunately however, Yuri isn't exactly in a fit state to tell us.

[RileyC]

Two town deaths last night? I just lost two good friends.

So ok prepare for the bomb shells to rain down.

So I have no "nasty" night action. Just a small one that isnt dangerous or at all nasty, it is actually helping things get done. What I can do is follow people at night. On night one, someone, an associate of Yuri tried to block me, for whatever reason I dont know why, or even who they are. They told Yuri to contact me. We were able to smooth things over and get a trust based relationship going and Petr was his safeguard, of which he did not trust one bit. But Yuri, at the first glimpse of my night action told Petr just incase I turned out to be scum or something. Then Petr was the one who added "nasty" in there just to get some conversation here actually leading somewhere.

But anyway last night I was able to follow Donil. And guess what I found, he targeted Yuri, who is now dead. I believe I have found the scum killer. Donil couldn't have been protecting Yuri because then we would still have Yuri. Also Yuri had no contact from Donil and was pushing me to follow Donil last night so they couldn't have been in contact at all. Also, with this information and the way Donil talks all makes perfect sense. Donil uses long, drawn out, extremely boring posts to ramble on about nothing at all. He rambles on about nothing, reiterates what others have said countlessly trying to act like he knows all, and all his posts are one big block so he's trying to make you gloss over him so that he can fly under the radar whilst still looking town. This is a classic sign of scum because they fail at trying to hide themselves by acting overly town that they start to stick of scumminess. I have been suspicious of Donil since the first day and knew I had to follow him sometime, and its a good thing I did.

I am glad I can be of assistance to the town, just as we needed it the most. I feel like I had to get this information out as quick as possible so that we can enjoy the scum and Donil trying to claw their way out of this one. As soon as voting starts, my vote needs no explanation. And I urge you all to do the same. We need this for the good of the town. If anyone has any questions, contact me.

[iamded]

2 more town deaths, and— hey hey hey, wait what? Did we just catch a scum?

Ruxana followed Donil last night and saw him target our dearly deceased Yuri. Yuri is dead. That's what dearly deceased means. Well, it's what deceased means, I added dearly out of respect. But you get the picture.

Donil targets Yuri, Yuri becomes dead. Occam's razor states that Donil is the killer. (Look, it's all bold! Isn't that sinister!) It's possible he could have been watching, blocking or investigating Yuri also, keep in mind. It's not possible he could have been protecting Yuri, as he was seen following Yuri therefore wasn't blocked, and of course Yuri's dead, therefore he wasn't protected.

I'm entirely eager to hear Donil's side of the story. I'm also entirely eager to slam my vote down upon Donil, and see what we get. If he comes of a clean innocent townie, then Ruxana may have some explaining to do...

[Sandy]

Oh no, I told Yuri he should be protected...

I can shed light to this incident with Yuri and Ruxana. Yuri was our Town Blocker, and on the first night he tried to block Ruxana, but got a message that she could not be blocked. That's why Yuri suspected Ruxana was either a Strongman, Hider or Commuter. Yuri confronted her about this, asking if she really was a Stronman, but Ruxana got all passive-aggressive and told that she was instead a "Strong-arm" (no definition can be found for such a profession). Odd, no?

Now it's Ruxana out of all the people who tells us she knows about Yuri's killer. Sounds way too convenient for me. Maybe Donil is a member of another Mafia, so it'd be safe for Ruxana to blame him, but Ruxana has her hands deep in this mess.

You must now decide who to trust, my fellow citizens: Ruxana or me. I for one will be voting for Ruxana (and hope my vote works this time), but we shouldn't let Donil off the hook either. The fact is that us Townies have now began losing important roles to us, so we must take affirmative action and vote out a scum next.

[Fugazi]

You must now decide who to trust, my fellow citizens: Ruxana or me. I for one will be voting for Ruxana (and hope my vote works this time), but we shouldn't let Donil off the hook either. The fact is that us Townies have now began losing important roles to us, so we must take affirmative action and vote out a scum next.

If it's a matter of choosing who to trust, I'd rather trust Samuel than Ruxana at this point. However, Ruxana's story seems to check out pretty well, so is it not possible that both tell the truth? Let's see how Donil explains his role in this mess.

Just a thought... Petr mentioned being blocked on night 1 as well, so that make two blockers. Yuri was obviously on our side, so does that give the scum a blocker too?

[iamded]

Now it's Ruxana out of all the people who tells us she knows about Yuri's killer. Sounds way too convenient for me. Maybe Donil is a member of another Mafia, so it'd be safe for Ruxana to blame him, but Ruxana has her hands deep in this mess.

Oooh, yes. I forgot the possibility of there being multiple Mafia groups in our little town. Good point Samuel!

Now I'm off to paint some more. The partying of last night, despite the fatalities, was great inspiration for artwork! Or maybe that was all the booze. Either way, I'll return later, no doubt to pages upon pages of conversation to read through.

[Shadows]

But anyway last night I was able to follow Donil. And guess what I found, he targeted Yuri, who is now dead. I believe I have found the scum killer.

That's enough for me. When the time comes, I will support a vote for Donil. At this stage, it's the clearest potential evidence we've got and to ignore it seems ridiculously dangerous, given that this might stop us from losing yet another townie to the scum.

If this information is wrong we will hold you responsible, naturally, but it would be a fairly foolish move to make something like this up knowing the consequences and I have a pretty good feeling about it. This might be the first thing to completely make sense in this whole game of life.

Thank you for stepping forward. I hope that whoever is capable of protecting you will take the necessary action tonight.

[Bob]

Now it's Ruxana out of all the people who tells us she knows about Yuri's killer. Sounds way too convenient for me. Maybe Donil is a member of another Mafia, so it'd be safe for Ruxana to blame him, but Ruxana has her hands deep in this mess.

I'm not sure there is another Mafia. The FBI told me they were looking for only the Russian Mob, not one else. I'm not sure who to trust. I've been in contact with Ruxana, but if there's one thing I learned the hard way, never trust anyone. I'm open to the idea of a neutral faction, such as a serial killer.

I'm not yet sure who to vote for. I'll see what other people have to say first.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I'm more inclined to believe Samuel at this point but I want to hear what Donil has to say about this.

Something we should also keep in mind is that there were fewer kills the first night than the second. If there are multiple mafias or the tommy gun killer is a neutral or vigilante, there may have been a conversion on night one. And Samuel being voteless, which is typically a town disability, would have been a prime target. I don't find this likely, just possible. So if anyone else could back up what Samuel says, it might be to the town's advantage.

[Waterbrick Down]

So according to Roxana I'm scum because I post long block paragraphs of gibberish nonsense, well I guess that doesn't give me much space to retort the claims presented without falling into that stereotype Ah well too late

First off addressing Roxana's story, I haven't got anything against the facts she's presented aside from the fact that I killed Yuri. I won't argue that I targeted him last night, but I think we all know that there are plenty of us with special abilities that don't involve pulling out a Tommy Gun on someone.

Speaking of Tommy Gun, if we're assuming the same weapon is used for each kill, would someone care to explain why I supposedly killed Eugene as well?

As far as my posting, what am I supposed to say to that? I've been working my butt off for this town as several people can probably back up. summarize and talk alot, but that is how the town figures things out, I could have easily let all the conversations devolve into the endless rabbit holes that arose, did I? No, every single one of my posts has been to focus the towns efforts on sorting the junk from the facts, unlike some others who would have us still arguing as to whether Nika or Eugene was scum. Communication is key for the town and the more we talk the more chance there is of a scum making a slip up. That's my opinion at least and I'm sticking to it.

In conclusion, I can't blame you for all wanting to lynch me right off the bat, even though a few sound a little bit too hasty and this is after all the clearest piece of evidence we have gotten thus far, but I'm sorry you're barking up the wrong tree today, I did not kill Yuri.

[Sandy]

But Donil, surely you understand that Ruxana would not accuse you so openly and directly unless she knew you were scum - because lying would only cause us to lynch her tomorrow. She could be a Townie who has been tricked by someone, but in that case I think she would've worded her accusation to be less direct and affirmative. She is not the investigator either, because it would be too risky to reveal herself at this stage of the situation.

No, I don't believe neither one of you is an innocent Townie. I could be mistaken, but no other option makes more sense than that.

[Tamamono]

So I have no "nasty" night action. Just a small one that isnt dangerous or at all nasty, it is actually helping things get done. What I can do is follow people at night.

So you're a tracker?

But anyway last night I was able to follow Donil. And guess what I found, he targeted Yuri, who is now dead. I believe I have found the scum killer.

This is an interesting revelation, but keep in mind that he could very well be an investigator or a watcher or something.

I can shed light to this incident with Yuri and Ruxana. Yuri was our Town Blocker, and on the first night he tried to block Ruxana, but got a message that she could not be blocked.

Woah, seriously? Can anyone else confirm this, or were you the only one who was in real contact with Yuri?

That's why Yuri suspected Ruxana was either a Strongman, Hider or Commuter. Yuri confronted her about this, asking if she really was a Stronman, but Ruxana got all passive-aggressive and told that she was instead a "Strong-arm" (no definition can be found for such a profession). Odd, no?

Very odd, especially since she just role-claimed Tracker/Follower. Ruxana, would you care to shed some light on this 'Strong-arm' action?

You must now decide who to trust, my fellow citizens: Ruxana or me. I for one will be voting for Ruxana (and hope my vote works this time), but we shouldn't let Donil off the hook either. The fact is that us Townies have now began losing important roles to us, so we must take affirmative action and vote out a scum next.

I'm more inclined to trust you, but I'm definitely not going to make a rash decision today. I'll think carefully over what's been said today and make an educated decision when the time comes.

[Sandy]

Woah, seriously? Can anyone else confirm this, or were you the only one who was in real contact with Yuri?

Well, it's what Petr was talking about yesterday, by saying Ruxana had a "nasty night action". I don't know if Yuri told him as much as me, though.

Too bad Yuri didn't live long enough to tell me who he blocked last night, though, because that would confirm the person is not either of the killers.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Too bad Yuri didn't live long enough to tell me who he blocked last night, though, because that would confirm the person is not either of the killers.

Unless the person he blocked was a paranoid gun owner that kills anyone ho targets him/her. Or if he was blocked as he was trying to block the killer.

[Sandy]

Unless the person he blocked was a paranoid gun owner that kills anyone ho targets him/her. Or if he was blocked as he was trying to block the killer.

That's true. Blocking the blocker, a scary thought.

I think Ruxana knew about Yuri being a blocker. Yuri also forwarded me some threatening letters he got from Ruxana. In one of them Ruxana said "It is indeed an odd role but I am town and will definitely need to stick around in this game for us town to actually win." After that, she offered Yuri help, asking him who he thought she should target with her night action - without explaining what her night action actually did. If that's not posing helpfulness, I don't know what is.