The "continuity" of recent action themes

[Haltiamieli]

Pharaoh's Quest, one wave in winter 2011, no new sets after that

Alien Conquest, one wave in summer 2011, no new sets after that

Dino, one wave in winter 2012, apparently no new sets upcoming in summer

Monster Fighters, one wave coming in summer 2012...

I've been pondering this for quite a while now, and have been a bit surprised no topic has been started on this before (as far as I have noticed), though certainly others have mentioned same sort of observations and suspicions in the topics of the themes in question.

It's still quite early to draw big conclusions, as Pharaoh's Quest is the only theme of which we know with certainty that it is not continuing with a second wave even after a whole year since the first one (like Kingdoms did last year, surprising many), and some might dispute categorizing Alien Conquest as an action theme (that doesn't mean it couldn't be a space theme too!). Still, to me it seems a picture is shaping, especially as I understand most of the action themes of the past, even the short ones, have usually lasted at least two waves. And I'm not sure if Lego even could consider whether or not to release another wave based on the popularity of the first wave if there's only half a year between them, as often is assumed ("it didn't sell well enough, so they axed it"), that's quite a short time to plan and produce sets? I believe that all these themes were always meant to be one-wave themes.

Of course, there's the one obvious exception to this rule I'm proposing, and it's Ninjago, currently on it's third wave and going strong. But maybe Lego decided that Ninjago, even if it was to be a heavily marketed and planned to continue for a good while with TV series etc, wouldn't provide enough diversity, so they saw it as a possibility to produce another concurrent series of action sets in a quick rotation of different and at times a bit niche themes.

What do you think?

[sharky]

Perhaps they feel it's sometimes good to end things on a high note. Unlike Ninjago.

[LEGOman273]

Pharaoh's Quest, one wave in winter 2011, no new sets after that

Alien Conquest, one wave in summer 2011, no new sets after that

Dino, one wave in winter 2012, apparently no new sets upcoming in summer

Monster Fighters, one wave coming in summer 2012...

You forgot World Racers.

It is too early to know about Monster Fighters.

[sok117]

I think the reasons for ending action themes after 1 wave is because TLC does not see any direction to take the story in. For example

Pharoahs Quest- The team finds all the artifacts and defeats the evil mummy and his minnions. Case Closed.

Alien Conquest- The ADU defeats the "Mother Ship" and all the specalized generals. Case Closed.

Dino- still to early to tell I guess, but I don't think any dinousaurs are well known enough to warrant more production, and I still don't fully understand the story behind that theme so the case is still open.

World Racers- The lime-green team won the race around the world! Case Closed.

To be honest, I'm a fan of the one-shot action themes because they keep the years fresh and exciting. I can't wait to see what comes after Monster Hunters, and after that, and after that.

[Mr Spielbrick]

Hm... Good observation.

Personally, I've noticed something else about these themes. They're all "classics". Mummies, dinos, aliens and horror monsters. Well, you could argue the classicness of these specific aliens, though the little-green-men-in-flying-saucers angle certainly rings more classic than Space Police III, to me at least.

I like this string of classic stuff. Playmobil has a wide range of playsets currently available, ranging from pet stuff to dinosaurs to dragons to Romans. The LEGO Company seems to be offering something similar with this quick succession of iconic 'characters'/monsters. A good move, I think. It's always nice to visit familiar territory after more far-out/imaginative/new stuff like Power Miners (which, as you can probably guess, didn't really appeal to me personally).

With the current parade of classicness and three notable Collectible Minifigures, I'd say chances of something or other in the mythological area are better than ever. This though, is of course pure speculation, and should not de-rail this discussion. It would be a shame, 'cos it's an intelligent topic, I think. Cheers for posting this!

[Rez]

What depresses me is knowing that these 1 hit wonder themes may never have hit their potential. In the past, when a theme started it was exciting for a lot of reasons- but one thing was for sure, if you were a little dissappointed in the execution but loved the idea, you knew there was more to come.

Aquazone was my favorite as a kid, and look how great that was? We got new factions that fit right in for years. More recently, Atlantis came out- and while I had no use for 15 slightly different red subs, I was always happy to have more strange creature filled ancient sunken buildings.

Now I look at themes and just wonder what might have been. I've seen people say "what else can you do with Alien Conquest?" and to this I'm shocked! Where's a real alien mothership, with a bunch of detachable small ships? Or an alien moon base? Or an attack on the statue of liberty set where the aliens turn the statue into a giant fighting robot?! They're ALIENS! I'll be 100 times more upset if Dino is done, too.

[Mr Spielbrick]

Running out of ideas for a storyline or sets doesn't really seem to be the proper explanation, with a company full of creative people.

Who knows. Themes (if you'd call "something with mummies" a "theme") might just as well be on the fast-return route. For all we know, TLC could already be planning to bring mummies back in a few years, much sooner than the long gap between Adventurers and Pharaoh's Quest. The whole One Wave, Then The Next Thing is a new approach. Who knows what's to come?

Edit: okay, with the Collectible Minifig and the Monster Fighters, mummies might not be the best example. Pretend I said dinos, if you like.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Mr Spielbrick

[Itaria No Shintaku]

It's still quite early to draw big conclusions, as Pharaoh's Quest is the only theme of which we know with certainty that it is not continuing with a second wave even after a whole year since the first one

Actually, Alien Conquest too is stated to be discontinued.

See here for details.

[Haltiamieli]

I think the reasons for ending action themes after 1 wave is because TLC does not see any direction to take the story in.

I think it is rather a result than a reason. If TLC would have wanted to continue any of the themes, they could have tweaked the story arc to have some cliff-hanger ending to make continuing easier – or they could have just continued anyway, like Ninjago* or any second-class action movie sequel. Surprisingly the bad guy survived the nuke after all, or maybe the explosion opened a portal to another dimension for even more evil bad guy to pass through, or something.

* Considering that the antagonist of the first year, Lord Garmadon, was apparently defeated and dropped to a rather background character in the second year sets, with completely new antagonists in the frontline. Even the protagonists' design and style were drastically changed, dragons to vehicles etc.

To be honest, I'm a fan of the one-shot action themes because they keep the years fresh and exciting. I can't wait to see what comes after Monster Hunters, and after that, and after that.

That is the great thing about the quick circulation of themes. Certainly I don't see the phenomenon as a completely negative thing, it has both good and bad aspects.

Actually, Alien Conquest too is stated to be discontinued.

See here for details.

By no doubt Alien Conquest seems to be discontinued, but I was decidedly conservative in the first post, as there could, theoretically, still be an abundance of sets we know nothing about in the 2012 summer wave, of which we have yet only some leaked info. That's not exactly likely, of course.

[sharky]

Actually, Alien Conquest too is stated to be discontinued.

See here for details.

This was one theme I was hoping to see at least another round of sets. Oh well, I noticed S@H has the Earth Defense HQ marked down, and I took that as a sign to get my rear in gear and buy it before it sells out and the secondary market prices start climbing. I did notice that I don't really see it in stores anymore. I suspect it was a popular Christmas gift this past season. It certainly was the best set of the theme.

[jonwil]

Alien Conquest being discontinued is sad as I thought it was the best space theme in at least 10 years (and bought all the sets that were sold in Australia, i.e. everything except the battle pack and polybag). But conversely its good for my wallet that 2012 wont have any space theme.

[sharky]

Alien Conquest being discontinued is sad as I thought it was the best space theme in at least 10 years (and bought all the sets that were sold in Australia, i.e. everything except the battle pack and polybag). But conversely its good for my wallet that 2012 wont have any space theme.

Never did see the polybag Walker set or the jetpack set for that matter. I wonder where it showed up?

Also, I suppose I should get the mothership and jetcopter to complete the theme, but I was never that crazy about them. I may change me mind if I can get it at a good discount.

Like you, I'm probably better off budget-wise that they did not continue the theme. Still, I look forward to doing a little customization by using army men parts from the Toy Story line, Haz-mat guys from the CMF, and the new grey alien from Series 6 of the CMF line.

[Legoist]

Pharaoh's Quest, one wave in winter 2011, no new sets after that

Alien Conquest, one wave in summer 2011, no new sets after that

Dino, one wave in winter 2012, apparently no new sets upcoming in summer

Monster Fighters, one wave coming in summer 2012...

...

What do you think?

I think that TLG is basing the marketing of many themes upon a backstory, the backstory's excitement burns out quickly, and it's easier to run out of ideas for the story than it is to run out of ideas for actual sets.

What surprises me is the rapid downfall of Pharaoh's Quest. The excitement around this theme (for AFOLs) was very high, because people started to think that an egyptian theme could even have a potential not far from that of Castles, and because of the mass production of tan/sand bricks. But if you tie the theme to a story, when the story ends or "jumps the shark", then KFOLs (the bulk of customers) are going to look elsewhere for more excitment.

I think the same happened for Atlantis and Alien Conquest (and Power Miners and Agents before) and will probably happen for Dino, but these themes IMHO have definitely less potential than Pharaoh's Quest.

My opinion is therefore that if they had made it Pharaoh's Kingdoms (a more-or-less static world) instead of Quest, they would have probably created less excitement, sales would have been somewhat lower among the youngest KFOLs, but the theme would have last longer. But I think we all know what is more convenient for TLG... anyway they have to keep up with 400+ new sets released every year including at least 3-4 novel themes. Unfortunately it's how the yuppy economy works.

Now for the bright side... to AFOLs it means it doesn't take long before a theme's sets are massively discounted Atlantis has been already "purged" from a few shops around here with discounts between 30-50% in the last few months. I didn't buy any PQ sets, but if I see the same discounts I'll start thinking about it.

[edit: oh and by the way, it won't take longer than 6 months or at most a year before a new space theme... it's just too easy to make space sets and I don't think a gap would last longer; all they need to do is pick a new colour scheme, although personally I thought the AC purple+grey+lime scheme was ghastly]

Edited January 5, 2012 by Legoist

[CaptainBermuda]

Well Pharaohs quest only needed one wave, for they ended up completing the whole story in those five sets, or six sets. The others just mustn't sell very well.

[Final Exit]

I'd be surprised if Alien Conquest didn't return, it was a great theme, was well received and has plenty of possibility for expansion. Pharos Quest didn't appeal to me and I can't remember seeing it at all, I think it was marketed to fail the way it was hidden away on the Lego site. the Monsters theme looks like it could be interesting but I'm still undecided, some of the early spy pics look a bit underwhelming to say the least, decent minifigs should be all but guaranteed. Dino/2012 theme is great, but seems to be based entirely on the dinos, with them removed the sets wouldn't rate a second look and I think it's headed for a short run.

I do think that Lego has really got a good team working on designs though, some brilliant ideas of late, really on form, good work Lego :D

[RumPunchDrunk]

I would add the 2009 Pirates to the list as well.

Somebody in an older EB forum stated TLG's new policy is perennial themes like City, Castle (well, when not preempted by licenses like LOTR), and Ninjago supplemented by single-wave themes -- 6-8 sets and we're out. It makes sense. If you're a KFOL and a particular theme doesn't grab you, just wait a few months and a new one will be on shelves.

It's good news to me since it means Lego will cycling faster as they reboot old themes (Pirates, Adventurers, Dino) and add news ones (Alien Conquest). I think we'll see another Pirates line and another Jake Raines "Quest" within a few years.

[Joebot]

And I'm not sure if Lego even could consider whether or not to release another wave based on the popularity of the first wave if there's only half a year between them, as often is assumed ("it didn't sell well enough, so they axed it"), that's quite a short time to plan and produce sets? I believe that all these themes were always meant to be one-wave themes.

That's the part that I'm most curious about -- how quickly can TLC make a decision based on the line's popularity? We've always heard that TLC has a 2-3 year product development life cycle. If a theme intended as a one-and-done ends up being surprisingly popular, can they retool their product roadmap to take advantage of that, and quickly design and manufacture a second wave?

Or on the flip side of that, do they ever cancel a planned second wave because the first wave didn't meet their expectations? Is there a discarded Pharoah's Quest second wave in the trash can somwwhere at TLC HQ?

I'd love to have more insights into how those decisions get made. From the consumer's point of view, it seems very random and haphazard.

[Vindicare]

I'd be surprised if Alien Conquest didn't return, it was a great theme, was well received and has plenty of possibility for expansion. Pharos Quest didn't appeal to me and I can't remember seeing it at all, I think it was marketed to fail the way it was hidden away on the Lego site. the Monsters theme looks like it could be interesting but I'm still undecided, some of the early spy pics look a bit underwhelming to say the least, decent minifigs should be all but guaranteed. Dino/2012 theme is great, but seems to be based entirely on the dinos, with them removed the sets wouldn't rate a second look and I think it's headed for a short run.

I do think that Lego has really got a good team working on designs though, some brilliant ideas of late, really on form, good work Lego :D

I'm not sure I follow how Pharaohs Quest was hidden away on S@H? It was in the same place as every other theme. Also, with the name "Dino" why wouldn't it be based on the dino?I disagree though, as they are only a small part of the set, just a big draw of the theme.

[Final Exit]

The dino sets have the dinos, without them they aren't worth a look, how many times can they re use them in other sets before it becomes another Rex set or Trike set with a little buggy and a mini figure, as cool as the dinos are they are a large part of the set but are very much a non build-able item, the AQ sets had more design and appeal to them, they weren't based around one piece in the set like the dino ones are, I hope Lego have something up their sleeve but from the sets we've seen so far it's looking a bit light and padded around the dinos themselves.

As for the Pharos sets, I only know one was a money box, couldn't tell you of any others, very much like Atlantis sets, they have a big presence in the sales, always a bad sign of slow sales. :(

[Peppermint_M]

Action Themes have a high turnover rate due to line competition mostly. While the big three of Star Wars, Town/City and Historic (Pirates, Castle etc) are evergreen and always cycling through subthemes due to the popularity of the subject, a lot of others have a job to compete with them. Take into account the Action Themes are often two or three to a year and then you have competition within that niche. It is sad but true.

As for development, they probably have projections on how well the theme will sell through toy and media patterns (Loads of Dinosaur things this year, not just LEGO) and develop the product line and life accordingly.

[Ardelon]

I would add the 2009 Pirates to the list as well.

Somebody in an older EB forum stated TLG's new policy is perennial themes like City, Castle (well, when not preempted by licenses like LOTR), and Ninjago supplemented by single-wave themes -- 6-8 sets and we're out. It makes sense. If you're a KFOL and a particular theme doesn't grab you, just wait a few months and a new one will be on shelves.

It's good news to me since it means Lego will cycling faster as they reboot old themes (Pirates, Adventurers, Dino) and add news ones (Alien Conquest). I think we'll see another Pirates line and another Jake Raines "Quest" within a few years.

The problem with this for me is that I'm a fan of continuity and epicness, and short themes can't deliver on this. I wouldn't mind so much If TLG kept cyclically adding to older themes instead of creating new ones - for example, if they made a new wave of Johnny Thunder Adventurers instead of PQ.

[Vindicare]

The dino sets have the dinos, without them they aren't worth a look, how many times can they re use them in other sets before it becomes another Rex set or Trike set with a little buggy and a mini figure, as cool as the dinos are they are a large part of the set but are very much a non build-able item, the AQ sets had more design and appeal to them, they weren't based around one piece in the set like the dino ones are, I hope Lego have something up their sleeve but from the sets we've seen so far it's looking a bit light and padded around the dinos themselves.

As for the Pharos sets, I only know one was a money box, couldn't tell you of any others, very much like Atlantis sets, they have a big presence in the sales, always a bad sign of slow sales. :(

Well, seeing as the theme is called Dino, it makes sense that the focal point of the sets are going to be dinos. It would be a whole other theme if the dinos weren't included. On the brick built vs hunk o' plastic, I do agree with you, but I think the desired effect is better this way. I really enjoyed building the angler fish(Atlantis) and the scorpion(Pharaohs Quest).

[ijffdrie]

There are still a couple of famous dinosaur-era reptiles unused. Ichtyosaurus, plesosaurus, archeopteryx, spinosaurus, diplodocus, ankylosaurus, iguanadon, dimetrodon, Parasaurolophus and archelon all have easily recognizable designs and I can see a few of them easily appealing to kids. Allosaurus is a bit like a t-rex, but kids love that design anyway. Concidering the first wave was only seven sets and five dinosaurs, it shouldn't be that hard to create a second series.

A semi-large aquatic base set, with ichtyosaurus, plesosaurus and/or archelon.

A smaller set, with just a sub and one of the aquatic animals.

A small jungle set, maybe even an impulse, with archeopteryx.

A small long-range net thrower and any small dinosaur.

A large outpost on poles that holds some smaller dinos and is under attack by an allosaurus.

A small tree outpost, with a captured archeopteryx and under attack by a velociraptor.

A large helicopter base that is hunting a spinosaurus.

Just some random ideas.

Anyway, the point is that there is easily enough material for a second wave, so it was probably a conscious decision to rotate the theme out instead.

Edited January 8, 2012 by ijffdrie

[SilvaShado]

It's just LEGO playing it safe. With one wave, they can present a story from beginning to end. If it sells well, great - it's on to the next theme. If it sells poorly, well, then it's a good thing they didn't have any more planned - it's on to the next theme.

It's quite economical for LEGO, a good strategy, no matter how you look at it.

But from fan's perspective, it sucks. Fans of each theme want more in that theme, but won't get it again. At least not exactly. The themes will rotate back into existence, but with a different twist or slant.

I find it better for my budget so I'm not spending too much. And if I really like a theme, I buy as many of the sets as I can to make my own creations to fit in the theme.

As for the classicness of the recent sets, I am hopeful that this will lead towards mythological or more historical themes. But with it being an adventure theme, it will only be so realistic as they'll need to include adventurers of some type.

It's not too bad, but I was personally hoping for more from Pharaoh's Quest. Most of the vehicles sucked except the plane.

[mrklaw]

I just had a heretical thought, please forgive me.

My daughter likes the Dino series, but to get a reasonable range of dinos you need several large sets which is expensive. For my daughter, the fun isn't the building of a particular set, its the play after. Most of the non-dino part is fairly generic buggys/helicopters/compound. I'm almost tempted to just use her existing plastic dinosaurs and build some sets ourselves. I like the Lego dinos but I don't like being forced to buy particular sets. A 'bucketful of dinosaurs' would be much more attractive to me. For these classic themes I don't think you need such prescription on how and what to build, but Lego don't give you the choice.