[TC8] [WIP] GSK55 Grove Trailer Crane

[aminnich]

Hey guys, this is a little bit about my contest entry.

It is based off of a concept crane from an american company called Grove. It is the GSK55 trailer crane.

The only difference between mine and the concept drawing, is that mine is on steroids.

I'm working on building the chassis for it now. It has 7 axles (2 drive 5 steer) and 2 sets of outriggers. I have been test driving it just make make sure everything still works, but this last time i got lots of wheel slippage because of the weight of the chassis and everything it holds. I have started on the boom, but im having some trouble getting it to extend properly. The hook will have a set of pulleys to work with as well.

Functions of the crane (at lease what i want to happen);

Drive: XL motor

Steering: Servo

Outriggers (in/out): m motor

Outriggers (up/down): L motor

Turntable: L motor

Boom up/down: L motor

Boom extend: L motor

Lift counter weight: L/XL motor

Im not going to post pictures until i have fixed a few problems, but this is just to get started.

If you have any thoughts/ comments, i would love to hear them. Thanks

[Kristof]

Hello.

Don't take me wrong but this is already your fifth topic teasing some creation and I'm starting to wonder whether it ever comes real :D It started way back with your super complex gearbox, whcih you claimed to have finished and promissed some pictures, though we didn't see any in the end. And the only real picture I managed to dig up in your topics is some crude LDD sketch of chasis, which, to be honest, doesn't look very promissing.

For sure, there is nothing wrong about doing some research and asking for help before even starting the design - folks (me included) are happy to put the effort in helping to solve your problems as much as they can. But in this case I'm starting to feel you might be pulling the nose a little bit.

Im not going to post pictures until i have fixed a few problems, but this is just to get started.

If you have any thoughts/ comments, i would love to hear them. Thanks

This pretty much summarizes all your topics, eventhough there is a lot of thinking, planing and desctibing all around. You sound like you have work in progress on some high level design but is that really the case? I have to admit I doubt that.

So I have a thought that you should either prove my doubts wrong by sharing a pic (c'mon, you don't have to be finished before taking a picture - people love WIP pictures, sometimes almost more than the finished model) or stop making these 'I plan to build this and that whith all these features' threads.

I hope you go for the first option in which case I'll gladly beg off for my accusation ;)

Edited September 19, 2015 by krisandkris12

[aminnich]

I know what you are talking about, talking about the gearbox and such. I actually took everything that i had built so i would have the parts for this contest. I know i have never really posted anything of mine that i have built, but i get distracted from other hobbies of mine that i have and i usually never finish the MOC, because i clean off my hobby table and put my model train stuff there instead. So this time I have the ambition to finish this MOC because of the contest.

So i took some pictures to prove that i actually do build what i am talking about and that im not just wasting your time. I hope these do a justice.

^^ this is an overall picture of the crane so far. 7 axles; 2 drive, 5 steer

^^ the bottom of the crane

^^ outriggers out and down, does not quite lift the chassis off the ground, so im not expecting it to lift the whole thing. Will be a lot of weight on top of this in a week or two :)

^^The massive boom, it is about 6 feet long when extended, still having problems extending it though, but working on it :)

^^The hook design im going to use. Farily larger than the 42009 crane

^^ and finally how that massive boom is going up. Count them... yes 8 actuators, lots of torque too with worm gears

I hope you like my progress!! Please comment below, good and bad stuff

[Jeroen Ottens]

Well answered

A lot of good progress. One remark though: adding LA's will not increase lifting power. It is still the same motor powering them, so unless you add more motors the lifting power is limited to the power of one L-motor.

It is different for pneumatics. Adding more pneumatic cilinders in parallel will give more force (but you will need faster working compressors to keep filling that expanding volume).

I do like the double LA setup with the sliding wormgear, but I guess it should be possible to reduce the width of that middle section by 4 studs by just meshing the opposite LA's with the same bevelgear (you have to rotate one LA 90 degrees or remove it's holder though)

[aminnich]

i did a lot of experimenting this the actuator set up. That was as compact and strong (more important to me) that i could get it. I did try meshing the bevel gears but i could not get it right.

As for the force and power of the L motor, i have to try it, and it it does not work, then i will add another L motor or switch to an XL motor.

Thanks Jeroen!! im glad you liked it

[dhc6twinotter]

Looks good so far!

Is this just the trailer section and the tractor is yet to come, or are you no longer building the GSK55 trailer based crane?

[Kristof]

Why the heck did I have to be bitchy to pull this out of you :D

Honestly, my jaw just dropped - just a little bit, not completely but still. This is far beyond my expectations and I wish you had posted some WIPs lot sooner. So here you go: I'm sorry for making false allegations!

In general, this looks great. Your ambitious descriptions that I questioned before were real and I'm probably to short to give any sort of advices here - I never built such massive model myself, I never even attempted.

Perhaps I can just remind you (quite stupidly) to maximize the stiffness of the mechanizms that are going to be under load. And maybe to consider adding some wheels to support the turntable while you have such massive crane. And avoid using 8 tooth gears in high torque applications - I made this mistake myself several times.

Good luck!

[doug72]

What happened to the 2 week rule ?

[aminnich]

Looks good so far!

Is this just the trailer section and the tractor is yet to come, or are you no longer building the GSK55 trailer based crane?

this is going to be a "drivable trailer", i have a poorly colored 9397 logging truck built to show that it is a trailer in the final pictures, but i am building it so it can be maneuvered another without a truck.

[dhc6twinotter]

Interesting...thanks for the clarification.

[aminnich]

Why the heck did I have to be bitchy to pull this out of you :D

Honestly, my jaw just dropped - just a little bit, not completely but still. This is far beyond my expectations and I wish you had posted some WIPs lot sooner. So here you go: I'm sorry for making false allegations!

In general, this looks great. Your ambitious descriptions that I questioned before were real and I'm probably to short to give any sort of advices here - I never built such massive model myself, I never even attempted.

Perhaps I can just remind you (quite stupidly) to maximize the stiffness of the mechanizms that are going to be under load. And maybe to consider adding some wheels to support the turntable while you have such massive crane. And avoid using 8 tooth gears in high torque applications - I made this mistake myself several times.

Good luck!

Haha, it is ok. You did piss me off a bit, but you got a WIP out of me haha

What happened to the 2 week rule ?

OMG im sorry i thought it was 2 weeks today. sorry i will not post until monday again.

EDIT:

@dhc6twinotter; lets just say i have seen every crane video on Youtube their is. I have gotten a ton of ideas for this contest, i just have to figure out how to implement them

Edited September 19, 2015 by aminnich

[Kristof]

One remark though: adding LA's will not increase lifting power.

I can't back up my oppinion with real experiments, it's just a guess (educated maybe) but I think there might be quite noticeable difference, even with the same motor. Increasing the couterforce decreases the effectivity of LA (internal stress causes more friction) by quite a lot. Adding more LA's reduces the load each element has to carry so eventhoiugh you have more elements creating looses, the overall effectivity (under heavy load) is better, thus it should increase the lifting power.

Again, this might be false, I don't have enough LA's to do an experiment :)

Haha, it is ok. You did piss me off a bit, but you got a WIP out of me haha

Haha I bet I did. The more to appreciate how calm and factual you managed to keep your reply. Anyway, These pictures were undoubtedly worth it!

Edited September 19, 2015 by krisandkris12

[aminnich]

I can't back up my oppinion with real experiments, it's just a guess (educated maybe) but I think there might be quite noticeable difference, even with the same motor. Increasing the couterforce decreases the effectivity of LA (internal stress causes more friction) by quite a lot. Adding more LA's reduces the load each element has to carry so eventhoiugh you have more elements creating looses, the overall effectivity (under heavy load) is better, thus it should increase the lifting power.

Again, this might be false, I don't have enough LA's to do an experiment :)

That was my thought process. But seriously lets close this topic until monday. It is not fair to everyone else. I messed up!!

[Rishab N]

Wow this is one amazing WIP. I really like that 8 acuator set up. Looking forward to more progress(Once the 2 week rule is over)

[aminnich]

Again sorry for not starting until tomorrow, but i have a major problem with the steering. The steering i have on it now is for a crane, but not does not work as a trailer. I will post some more pictures tomorrow when it is legal. So, while i have this down to bare bones im going to try to get more internal pictures for everyone to see :)

[chubays]

You'ld beter use new turntable (from 42042&42043)!

You also want to lift counter weight by L/XL motor, BUT you forget the main function of the crane: lifting the HOOK! :blush:

Edited September 21, 2015 by chubays

[aminnich]

The main function is a hoist, lifting the counterweight is a smaller function

[D3K]

Looks good so far, but seems pretty far off from the source material except that it is a crane on a trailer!

Anyway, good stuff, can't remember seeing something like this in Technic before (well, unless you count desert's

, which had a sort of crane trailer)

As for the LA's, while the total power is technically limited by the motor, I find that by using more than one LA, it will work more smoothly and struggle less. Also, the clutch won't kick in as early.

For the steering, seeing as it is a trailer, you shouldn't use a setup like in the 42009. From my understanding of trailers like this, I'd say (since you seem to want to have it driven) place the driven axle(s) up front, and then use proportional steering towards the rear, with sharper angles the further back you get. Syncing this with the tractor vehicle might prove a challenge though? I don't know, I have never built something like this. However, take a look at JaapTechnic's recent Nooteboom trailer, as there might be some good tips there?

[aminnich]

D3K: Thanks for your suggestions. I am planning on totally redoing the steering and the drive. As of right now the drive is not as important as getting the trailer to steer properly. The Noteboom trailer is something similar to what im doing, but not exactly. Im going to be experimenting with the steering all this week (college is going to limit my time) and ill see what works best. Posting WIP pictures along the way of course

[D3K]

Good stuff! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with and the progress shots!

Now, I have to try to take some pics of my WIP as well.. Proving to be a bit difficult, as the model is turning out a lot bigger than I anticipated!

[aminnich]

HAHA, i know exactly what your talking about. I dont have a picture of it, but all i had was the chassis, steering and the outriggers on and i thought i had a lot of space to put both battery boxes in the chassis, well.... as you can see i got one to go in the back and the other one has not where to go. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD haha. Good Luck everyone!!!

[Milan]

This is quite nice looking. And big, too! Keep ut the great progress, i am very interested in following this!

Although I am not sure why did you try to modify the (great) idea from the concept where the trailer is crane, and the truck is pulling it.

I mean, you could make it less complex and sturdier with trailer steering and truck driving and steering. You could have more concentrate on that steerng and driving issues you have. Also, it will make room for larger outriggers, that could match that huge boom.

this is going to be a "drivable trailer", i have a poorly colored 9397 logging truck built to show that it is a trailer in the final pictures, but i am building it so it can be maneuvered another without a truck.

Just make sure the truck in the entry pictures is different from 9397. We dont want MODed set in the entry.

[Zerobricks]

Woah, that looks really massive! I like the clever LA lifting mechanism with worm sliding on the drive axle.

[aminnich]

Just make sure the truck in the entry pictures is different from 9397. We dont want MODed set in the entry.

The truck is similar to the b model 9397, has an extra steering axle and such, if this is a problem lease tell me soon. Thanks

[Milan]

The truck is similar to the b model 9397, has an extra steering axle and such, if this is a problem lease tell me soon. Thanks

Probably wont be a problem if it is different enough. You have a pm.