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#1076 posades

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:37 PM

I didn't mind the difficulty all that much, like you said Endgame we were never in dire straits the first battle.  However, I did think the battles dragged on for too long, and the loot drops in the first round were lackluster to say the least; when there are only three battles to a quest, I think the drops should be a little better for the first couple rounds (consumables, etc).  I think we failed because of some bad luck, so in the future maybe adjust the stats a bit to better pace the battles like others have suggested.

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#1077 swils

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:40 PM

Aaaand... the brainstorming has begun.  Oh, this is going to be fun.

Not sure if this question would be better suited to QML or R&D, but I'll try it here.  How would you feel about an enemy whose special abilities weren't revealed, or weren't revealed in full, resulting in some surprises mid-battle?  What if you had been given the opportunity to learn about it's specials preemptively, say, by having had the chance to sit down and listen to the horror stories some locals are sharing at the tavern?

#1078 Endgame

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:42 PM

View Postswils, on 11 September 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Aaaand... the brainstorming has begun.  Oh, this is going to be fun.

Not sure if this question would be better suited to QML or R&D, but I'll try it here.  How would you feel about an enemy whose special abilities weren't revealed, or weren't revealed in full, resulting in some surprises mid-battle?  What if you had been given the opportunity to learn about it's specials preemptively, say, by having had the chance to sit down and listen to the horror stories some locals are sharing at the tavern?
...That was something I was planning to have in my next quest. There'd be a location where you could visit to get foreshadowings on future battles.

Though I did use the midbattle switchup in 36 and 46...
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#1079 Brickdoctor

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:44 PM

View Postswils, on 11 September 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Not sure if this question would be better suited to QML or R&D, but I'll try it here.  How would you feel about an enemy whose special abilities weren't revealed, or weren't revealed in full, resulting in some surprises mid-battle?  What if you had been given the opportunity to learn about it's specials preemptively, say, by having had the chance to sit down and listen to the horror stories some locals are sharing at the tavern?
The evil QM inside me supports that first idea. The player part of me thinks it'd make strategy a lot harder or less useful, but that if it was only used for a few enemies it would be a nice twist.

I love the second idea. :thumbup:

#1080 Endgame

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:47 PM

And so i don't forget: Thanks for the feedback, Posades. Pacing is something I am definately going to work on in the future. :classic:
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#1081 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:09 AM

View Postswils, on 11 September 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Aaaand... the brainstorming has begun.  Oh, this is going to be fun.

Not sure if this question would be better suited to QML or R&D, but I'll try it here.  How would you feel about an enemy whose special abilities weren't revealed, or weren't revealed in full, resulting in some surprises mid-battle?  What if you had been given the opportunity to learn about it's specials preemptively, say, by having had the chance to sit down and listen to the horror stories some locals are sharing at the tavern?
Quest 28 featured this in Nur's side quest, so he might have further thoughts on this, but I like it, but it should probably be used sporadically.

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#1082 Palathadric

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:14 AM

Just a few words in regards to Quest #46:
Honestly, I was a bit disappointed in this one, Endgame. After you put so much into "The Voracious Vault," this quest seemed to be quite a let down. There didn't really seem to be any serious plotline, but just one battle after the next, which, I suppose, was the point, but in my opinion, it kind of made the quest lose its charm. I guess, generally speaking, I enjoy quests more when there is quite a detailed, well thought-out storyline, rather than just "will the heroes survive" battles. That could be just me though, but in general I am that kind of person I suppose. For instance, I find Rumble Strike's quests highly entertaining and enjoyable to read over. From what I have seen, the battles do not seem difficult. In general, I would actually consider them quite easy, but I find the world he builds in them very captivating and it really makes one want to be a part of it, even if it is fairly simple.
In my opinion, even if a quest has insanely easy battles (although there obviously has to be balance) if the plot is well thought out, it would still make for an entertaining read and enjoyable role-playing. When battles last too long, it grows wearisome for all participating, I think. :look:

I hope this wasn't too "bashing". I really liked your first quest, Endgame. :sweet:

I can see why you started using the "No smoke bomb" rule after we fled so many times in the last quest, but I have to agree with Sandy here. People buy smoke bombs for a reason, and I think it's a bit unfair to consistently deny someone the privelege of using such an item, after they spend their money to buy it. Same goes for bedrolls. :poke:
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#1083 Zepher

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

A QM's look on battle balance:

Make your battles fast and furious.  Seriously.  High HP isn't necessary, that just makes the battle drag on, and unless it's for a specific reason, it doesn't excite the heroes.  Eventually everyone continues to repeat their attacks.

What's better is enemies with high attacks.  Battles should CHANGE each round.  Make it likely that your heroes will have to deal with a NEW negative thing each round.  high HP makes people have to figure out how to heal - who can the heroes spare to heal, can they spare no one to do the healing, etc.  Negative effects do that too - who can attack what creature, who can risk what negative effect, who has a negative effect that locks down options for them and forces the other players to supplement their assets to the team.  THAT'S what makes them think.  Your heroes and enemies should both be able to get whittled down fast, so that each round is something NEW.

And if you want a look at an inventive battle, check out Jebs' quests.  They almost ALWAYS run with normal mechanics, with an added twist.  Passive specials are something he uses often (maybe even introduced) that I absolutely love and am trying to work into my quests.  They add a fun twist of making the heroes prioritize what negative effects in the battle they want to get rid of first.

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#1084 swils

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:23 AM

What, you mean the following would be too over the top?

Quest #XX: Something New Every Day
Fight One: Swarm of (6x) Innocuous Flies, Level 5 Free hits cause deadly poison.
Fight Two: Trio of Colorful Frogs, Level 10 Special Damage: Shoots out its tongue and swallows the victim's weapon.  Retrievable after frog is killed, or after battle (win or KO'ed).
Fight Three: Pair of Gate Guardians, Level 20 Must be struck down within the same turn or the fallen will revive with HP equal to its brother.Solid Stone (Passive): Physical attacks against a Guardian have a 1/6 chance to cause reverberations in the attacker's arm, dealing damage to them and stunning them for the next round.
Fight Four: 4x Arcane Sprites, Level 15 Take reduced damage from physical attacks.Attacks used against the sprite that require ether cost an additional ether.
Fight Five: Big Bad Boss, Level 30 Just kidding, he's got no specials/hidden stuff! But I bet the players are sufficiently paranoid by this point!

View PostZepher, on 12 September 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

And if you want a look at an inventive battle, check out Jebs' quests.  They almost ALWAYS run with normal mechanics, with an added twist.  Passive specials are something he uses often (maybe even introduced) that I absolutely love and am trying to work into my quests.  They add a fun twist of making the heroes prioritize what negative effects in the battle they want to get rid of first.
He's got a nasty knack for balancing those twists, he does.

#1085 Endgame

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:23 AM

View PostPalathadric, on 12 September 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Just a few words in regards to Quest #46:
Honestly, I was a bit disappointed in this one, Endgame. After you put so much into "The Voracious Vault," this quest seemed to be quite a let down. There didn't really seem to be any serious plotline, but just one battle after the next, which, I suppose, was the point, but in my opinion, it kind of made the quest lose its charm. I guess, generally speaking, I enjoy quests more when there is quite a detailed, well thought-out storyline, rather than just "will the heroes survive" battles. That could be just me though, but in general I am that kind of person I suppose. For instance, I find Rumble Strike's quests highly entertaining and enjoyable to read over. From what I have seen, the battles do not seem difficult. In general, I would actually consider them quite easy, but I find the world he builds in them very captivating and it really makes one want to be a part of it, even if it is fairly simple.
In my opinion, even if a quest has insanely easy battles (although there obviously has to be balance) if the plot is well thought out, it would still make for an entertaining read and enjoyable role-playing. When battles last too long, it grows wearisome for all participating, I think. :look:

I hope this wasn't too "bashing". I really liked your first quest, Endgame. :sweet:

I can see why you started using the "No smoke bomb" rule after we fled so many times in the last quest, but I have to agree with Sandy here. People buy smoke bombs for a reason, and I think it's a bit unfair to consistently deny someone the privelege of using such an item, after they spend their money to buy it. Same goes for bedrolls. :poke:
Honestly, Palathadric? I was a bit dissapointed in this one myself.

The concept looked good on paper, but my execution was far from great, and maybe not even good. I wanted more experience with battles so I could host a real showstopper when Voracious vault Pt2 rolls around, but in the process I also forgot 46 deserved the love 36 got. Hell, the entire time I was running 46 I spent a good portion of that time thinking of how to conclude the Progg's story. The pacing was the quest's greatest downfall by far. That, and the lack of any real plotline probably made this by far one of the, if not the most lackluster quests in the books.  :sad:

Edited by Endgame, 12 September 2012 - 12:24 AM.

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#1086 Palathadric

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostZepher, on 12 September 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

A QM's look on battle balance:

Make your battles fast and furious.  Seriously.  High HP isn't necessary, that just makes the battle drag on, and unless it's for a specific reason, it doesn't excite the heroes.  Eventually everyone continues to repeat their attacks.
I totally agree with this. If the enemy has a low level and a ridiculously high HP, then it just drags the battle out unnecessarily, because it's, generally speaking, not like that kind of enemy will put the party in serious danger anyway. The party will defeat him easily enough, it will just take a long time to do. :sadnew:


View PostEndgame, on 12 September 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

Honestly, Palathadric? I was a bit dissapointed in this one myself.

The concept looked good on paper, but my execution was far from great, and maybe not even good. I wanted more experience with battles so I could host a real showstopper when Voracious vault Pt2 rolls around, but in the process I also forgot 46 deserved the love 36 got. Hell, the entire time I was running 46 I spent a good portion of that time thinking of how to conclude the Progg's story. The pacing was the quest's greatest downfall by far. That, and the lack of any real plotline probably made this by far one of the, if not the most lackluster quests in the books.  :sad:
Don't worry about it too much. You got revenge on Capt.JohnPaul and that's all that matters. We're all improving. It's not like I've hosted before anyway. :blush:
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#1087 Endgame

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:33 AM

View PostPalathadric, on 12 September 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

I totally agree with this. If the enemy has a low level and a ridiculously high HP, then it just drags the battle out unnecessarily, because it's, generally speaking, not like that kind of enemy will put the party in serious danger anyway. The party will defeat him easily enough, it will just take a long time to do. :sadnew:



Don't worry about it too much. You got revenge on Capt.JohnPaul and that's all that matters. We're all improving. It's not like I've hosted before anyway. :blush:
Hopefully you aren't too reluctant to sign up for another chance to give the Death Progg a second whupping.  :tongue: I would really love to have you onboard again for Death's Homecoming.

I'm really not worrying it too much about it at all - the past is the past. I am, however, keeping it tucked back in the head on what NOT to do.  :blush:

And no, contrary to popular belief, this quest was not devised to assasinate Alex!  :laugh:  Though the concept was incredibly appealing...
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#1088 Flipz

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:12 AM

View Postswils, on 11 September 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Not sure if this question would be better suited to QML or R&D, but I'll try it here.  How would you feel about an enemy whose special abilities weren't revealed, or weren't revealed in full, resulting in some surprises mid-battle?  What if you had been given the opportunity to learn about it's specials preemptively, say, by having had the chance to sit down and listen to the horror stories some locals are sharing at the tavern?

I have the distinct impression that Sandy's already done the latter...fifty Quests later when the enemy shows up we'll realize that little detail we missed back in Quest whatever and begin fifty rounds of :wall: -ing at our lack of foresight. :tongue:

May be slightly depressed due to learning that Shortpacked! is ending in a year. :,-(
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#1089 CallMePie

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:15 AM

View PostFlipz, on 12 September 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

I have the distinct impression that Sandy's already done the latter...fifty Quests later when the enemy shows up we'll realize that little detail we missed back in Quest whatever and begin fifty rounds of :wall: -ing at our lack of foresight. :tongue:

I've already got the bit about the Jade Kraken written down from Quest 44 for the Unlimited Quest.

Bring....Assassins.... :tongue:
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#1090 Scubacarrot

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:20 AM

Immune to instant kills. :sadnew:

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#1091 CallMePie

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:22 AM

View PostScubacarrot, on 12 September 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Immune to instant kills. :sadnew:

Bring...lots....of.....Barbarians..... :laugh:
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#1092 Brickdoctor

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:24 AM

View PostCallMePie, on 12 September 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Bring...lots....of.....Barbarians..... :laugh:
Or Mages on Horses. :look:

#1093 Flipz

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:38 AM

View PostCallMePie, on 12 September 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Bring...lots....of.....Barbarians..... :laugh:

Supply...Arthur...with...lots...of...Nostrums...so he can...stun them all...constantly...and...rake...in...obscene...amounts...of gold. :tongue:

May be slightly depressed due to learning that Shortpacked! is ending in a year. :,-(
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#1094 Rumble Strike

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:43 PM

As I have been away I have only drifted in and out of keeping up with Quests, and some I haven't had a chance to catch at all, including your latest one, Endgame.  But I did want to thank Palathadric for his kind words about my Quests.  Interestingly the feedback given at the time in both Quests was that the battles were too easy, but it is nice to see that this is compensated by being ones that 'fit' the scenarios as presented.  

I try not to make things too complicated as both Quests I have run have been for newer Questers, perhaps the fact that Endgame took a group of Advanced characters out skewed the perception of their survival skills.

It is worrying me that I will have to adapt in the same way to Advanced Classes in the third Quest I do, because I'm sure there are characters out there that would like another crack at Haroka and Sorona.
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#1095 Scubacarrot

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:53 PM

View PostRumble Strike, on 12 September 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is worrying me that I will have to adapt in the same way to Advanced Classes in the third Quest I do, because I'm sure there are characters out there that would like another crack at Haroka and Sorona.

Yes I do. :sweet:

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#1096 K-Nut

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:32 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 12 September 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Or Mages on Horses. :look:
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#1097 Rumble Strike

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 12 September 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Yes I do. :sweet:

Glad to hear it!  My brainstorming sessions for ideas have finally produced a working/workable quest structure, so now I just need to try and build most of it.  But before that will probably be my secret project that I still haven't got around to yet.
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#1098 Palathadric

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:46 PM

Quest Title: Farmer Jones' Farm
Assignment: Help! I need help! Last night, as I slept, the worst of things happened. I awoke to the sound angry clamouring and loud noises. I went downstairs and what do I see? My farm animals have turned on me. They were breaking down the door of the farm house trying to get in at me. What did I do? I had to escape through the kitchen door with my wife and leave the house and all my possessions in the hands of animals. I have written to our friend, the monk, Pretzel, and he has advised me that this is no small matter and that the animals are, likely enough, demon-possessed. Please, I need a team of heroes to come and sort out this problem for me. The harvest is approaching soon, and I am desperate to get everything sorted out before then.
Requirements: 4 heroes of any class, although I prefer no robbers or animal-friends on my property.
Reward: We'll work that out when you get here. :devil_laugh:

Just an idea. Would like to know if people are interested or not. :shrug_confused:
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#1099 Brickdoctor

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:13 PM

Is there some kind of twist in the game mechanics? Otherwise, it sounds a lot like Quest 1 and the Unlimited Quest.

#1100 Palathadric

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:27 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 19 September 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Is there some kind of twist in the game mechanics? Otherwise, it sounds a lot like Quest 1 and the Unlimited Quest.
I haven't read Quest #1, so I wouldn't know, but I don't see how it's similar to the Unlimited Quest.
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