OpenStreetMap Lego city?

[Dilvish]

It would be really cool to have an OpenStreetMap-like site where people can submit their creations (in *.lxf or *.ldr format) and have them appear in the landscape. You could register with the site, pick a square on the map where you want to build, and submit and upload your file to the server. After a certain amount of time it would appear where you placed it.

I've been thinking about a few community rules for such a system, too. They are:

1. You can only build on X% (percent) of the map. If there are 10 users, you can build on 10% of the map. If there are 100 users, you can build on 1% of the map. The map itself will never run out of space though.

2. Tiles immediately adjacent to a road connection require some sort of committee to determine the result. The immediate neighbors for instance.

3. That's all!

Landscape images would be rendered in isometric perspective (using POV-Ray probably), and all creative content would be licensed under the CC-BY-SA, as per a lot of other community sites such as wikis like Wikipedia, sites like StackEchange, etc.

Any support for such an idea, or tips & help on creating it? I am a pretty decent Web developer, and already have some paid hosting service that is basically sitting around unused.

Later!

[Cloud0]

Awesome idea!

It would be fantastic if we could have minifigs that represent ourselves too.

[Dilvish]

Not sure if there should be a restriction on the size and dimensions of submissions to ensure that they each fit onto a single baseplate. It *would* make things a lot simpler to administer.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Dilvish

[Lalror]

The idea is good, I would love to set up some digital Lego world completely created by AFOL's, that we could all contribute to and build in. The problem is that currently, we would have do something more like a LDD RCB for it to even get close. If there was a dedicated server, that could hold the model, and allow people to come and edit the "world," then it would be a lot easier to do what you are talking about. Still, a great idea, and I hope that Lego, or anybody else has some way of making this work. Maybe blowing up the properties mode in LU the game, and allowing multiple people to contribute would work.

~Lalror

[Zeya]

Doesn't Lego Universe (the video game, not LDD mode) have this feature? I think I remember reading that you get your own piece of land and can build whatever you want on it.

[Lalror]

Doesn't Lego Universe (the video game, not LDD mode) have this feature? I think I remember reading that you get your own piece of land and can build whatever you want on it.

Yes, that is exactly what it is. But what I think the situation is, is that we want a property that is bigger than the LU properties, and that people can work on together, at the same time.

[Zeya]

Yes, that is exactly what it is. But what I think the situation is, is that we want a property that is bigger than the LU properties, and that people can work on together, at the same time.

Ah, I see. Well in that case: minecraft.

(That was mostly a joke.)

[Lalror]

Ah, I see. Well in that case: minecraft.

(That was mostly a joke.)

Actually, I would kill to have an altered version of minecraft using the complete assortment of Lego bricks.

[Dilvish]

There is FreeBuild, which seems a lot like Minecraft except with Lego-like bricks.

But I was purposefully trying to avoid any sort of real-time rendering as that is a complete pain on today's computers (...and also limits the size and scope of the community "world"). I envisioned something that any visitor who comes along can view and examine using their Web browser. Hence the statically rendered isometric images. Clicking on the image could also direct visitors to other types of content and media. Maybe a little homepage or blurb from the model's author.

I.e. an emphasis on presentation and "showing off" over possibly competing factors.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Dilvish

[mikey]

I think this would be a really good idea, but I really don't know how feasible it would be? Would you not have serious technical problems rendering such huge files? If it was based up 32x32 plates (for the roads?), then people select either a 32x32, or 32x16, on which to build a property, then surely the file to render would be massive? I assume the file would be updated say every day or week and then rendered? Also once rendered is the image just one view, or is it like a 3D model that the visitor can navigate (within reason)?

But if these technical problems are solvable, then it does sound great, the only problems would be that it would create a 'flatland', which doesn't retract that much from the project, given its benefits. If you were going to use 32x32 roadplates, maybe have community votes to decide future directions, and then votes to decide zones of development (a bit like simcity). Instead of building on baseplates, maybe people build on plates and this would allow tiled pavements, and better use of space in the more developed central areas.

[Dilvish]

I think this would be a really good idea, but I really don't know how feasible it would be? Would you not have serious technical problems rendering such huge files? If it was based up 32x32 plates (for the roads?), then people select either a 32x32, or 32x16, on which to build a property, then surely the file to render would be massive?

Each 32x32 map "tile" would have its own associated file. I.e. clicking on the image for each "tile" would let you download the model for that individual tile. You could then open the model in LDD or whatever yourself if you wanted to. (I supposed there could also be an option to select multiple files at once, or to merge multiple models/tiles into a single file, but that would require additional thought.)

I assume the file would be updated say every day or week and then rendered? Also once rendered is the image just one view, or is it like a 3D model that the visitor can navigate (within reason)?

No. The website would only assemble and display the pre-rendered images for each model/tile - not render 3D models themselves. Think of it like a 2D/isometric video game like SimCity 2000 or Diablo: each tile is like a sprite and is discrete. The sprites are then arranged to recreate the larger scene. And, since each model/tile is dealt with individually, there would probably be no one, large super-model.

But if these technical problems are solvable, then it does sound great, the only problems would be that it would create a 'flatland', which doesn't retract that much from the project, given its benefits. If you were going to use 32x32 roadplates, maybe have community votes to decide future directions, and then votes to decide zones of development (a bit like simcity). Instead of building on baseplates, maybe people build on plates and this would allow tiled pavements, and better use of space in the more developed central areas.

Yes! I think there should be a voting mechanism for zoning and road directions. I would like to see 3D terrain too, but I'm not sure yet what the proper way of doing it would be.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Dilvish

[Bojan Pavsic]

This is a very nice idea (i loved games like Transport Tycoon, Sim City, OpenTTD until WoW came along ), but things that come to my mind thinking about it:

- tile based design

pros: easier to implement (everyone builds within their own borders)

cons: limitations for the design (considering the road is made from road baseplates, the who would take care of the pavements, would overhangs, balconies over the "tile-baseplate" borders be allowed, etc...)

- non user definable things like roads, town growth, train tracks, even monorail etc... (who would do that? some sort of administrators? What about checking & approving every uploaded design. Maybe user suggestions that would be approved by admins?)

- prerendering of the buildings. If we'd focus on LDD designs, how many know how to render an LXF without LDD (it should be automatic, not downloading LXF). LDraw designs are a bit easier, since the data is public knowledge. Another "problem" is that prerendering makes moving through the 3D town (as a minifig or something like that) kinda impossible, you can't prerender everything from every viewpoint. Diablo style is probably not that useful either since everything is seen only from 2 directions (iso-view).

- real time rendering... in browser? Probably not... Separate app? Requires LDD instalation (db.lif) for rendering LXFs in the scene (and there's the "minor" thing with TLG's copyright for the db.lif data) and LDraw parts library for LDRs. Even if the thing would be implemented in a browser, it would probably need some sort of plugin installation or something. I'm definitely more open for a normal application (which in turn is again harder to code, if the thing would need to run on multiple platforms like Win / OSX or Linux)

- why would this be made in the first place? As a showroom for static buildings? Maybe as a tool to enable people to design their layouts for the next Lego show? The thing is that if it supports a virtual world (as in town), it can easily be blown up into sim city style of multiple towns (private - seen only by the owner, public - multiple contributors, readonly - private town made by one but can be seen by others)

- a site like this takes quite some bandwidth. I know many have fiber@home with fast upload connections and probably even private servers. I already hear many shout out "i can host everything", but what about in a year, two or if a component in the server brakes down, backups etc... Will you still be interested in free hosting for everyone else? Another option is a payed hosting but who's gonna pay for it.

...

This are just some of the things... there's a lot more to think about if the project would really take off.

[Bojan Pavsic]

I put together some of thoughts.

World

- tile based design (multiplier of let's say 16).

- top down or iso view with prerendered data inside a browser.

- multiple LODs (level of detail). If you'd zoom out max, you'd see multiple towns. Community towns in the middle, user owned towns on the outside rim. You could zoom into a town of your choice. If it's a community one, you'd be able to build there otherwise just check it out. You'd only see a user town if it's marked public or the owner invites you.

3D World

- to see and walk through the 3D version of the town, one would need to download a viewer.

- i'm not sure what measures would TLG take if db.lif would be used for displaying the LXF files in the scene.

- it would be nice to be able to embed both LXFs and LDRs in the scene (and the files from Sergios' editor which are basicly compatible with LDR. One would need to have the libraries installed thou (LDD to display LXF objects, LDraw libraries to display LDRs). If the library would be missing, instead of real 3D building, there would be a box with textures of each view (which would be ugly but at least better then nothing).

- everyone could make his own custom minifig and it's location could be sent to the server and then to all other "connected" users - similar to an mmorpg, just without all other bells and whistles, maybe only with a chat.

Building

- a user can "buy" land (free of course, but it means that it's reserved for the user).

- max number of tiles in building is fixed (like an area of 4096 studs, which is equal to 64x64 or 128x32 or 4 properties sized 32x32 or any other combo - doesn't need to be square or connected - multiple smaller projects in working).

- when the build is complete, it's flagged as finished and can't be edited anymore unless a request for re-building is issued. That's when the max number of tiles in building applies again.

- the purchase goes as following: user selects some free area to buy it. He can download a base LDD file that's generated with the baseplates in the proper configuration / orientation (or just start a new one with the same configuration - but he'll have to adjust the orientation when he uploads the design).

- the owner can add multiple users to his design - i.e. community build. The only thing is that the design would be "flagged" by only one user at a time as "in edit". It's just convenient that 2 users don't edit the same file at once as it would cause overwriting the design and additional work for the owner. The server would use some sort of versioning system so if someone uploads an empty design, the owner would still be able to revert it. There would be no automatic merging or any other "high tech" stuff... If two users would edit the same file and re-upload it, the one that was uploaded last, would be the active one. The owner can download both versions and merge them by hand if that's his wish.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Bojan Pavsic

[Dilvish]

I was thinking now that we have a LDD to POVray converter this idea might be more feasible for LDD users. (POVray can easily generate isometric or overhead images.) I've done similar renderings here.