167 replies to this topic

[Banjo]

AndyC, on 22 September 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

It's worth noting (because many people overlook it) that you can always switch temporarily to Extended Mode using the View -> New Themes menu option, add/paint any parts you need, and then switch back to the simplified interface if you prefer it.

Yes... and that's exactly what I do! :) Quite handy, and makes a lot of sense for giving us basically "two interfaces" in that Extended = "all parts, paint yourself" and standard LDD = "parts only in released colours" (in theory, anyway). I like having the choice.

However, it confuses me why some parts are only in Extended mode... it's not like they put just the complex ones (electrics, etc) in there, either. At first I wondered if newly added parts go in Extended first, as a kind of "beta" testing stage for them? What defines a part as "Extended only"?

[kangmingjie]

What I meant earlier by Sebulba not being fully paintable was part of the piece would remain the same color if I painted it. It works now.

[Aanchir]

Superkalle, on 22 September 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Made a considerably trimmed down LXF of potential remove items. (and added Qui gons hair)

IdenticalElements7.lxf

Also revised my proposed criteria for judging potential bricks to remove to simply be:

Is the bricks fully interchangeable in respect to usage/function as well as visual appearance (looking at a physical brick) when used/applied?

The "visual appearance" part is where things get tricky. Almost all of these parts are visually different than their variants. And a lot of people could also probably find ways to take advantage of their functional differences-- even slightly different dimensions on the underside of a brick can make a difference, as some people have discovered when certain arch pieces have been re-molded with different wall thicknesses, or when the interior supports were added to the macaroni brick.

The bricks on this list that I'd consider 100% interchangeable in both function and appearance are:

• The 1x1 cone
  
• The lightsaber hilt
  
• The 2x2 plate
  
• The 2x4x3 brick
  
• The 2x8 brick
  
• The 1x2 tile
  
• The 1x4x3 panel
  
• The 1x2x3 panel
  
• The broadsword (since, as I mentioned, they are exactly the same piece-- use the "shape selection tool" to see this for certain)

Ones that are verifiably NOT interchangeable are:

• Qui-Gon's hair (different texture)
  
• The "girl" wig (different texture)
  
• The treads (different shape)
  
• The arch pieces (different wall thicknesses)
  
• The 3x4 wedge plates (different underside supports)
  
• The "S" bricks (different supports beneath column which allow for different connection points IRL)
  
• The quarter-cylinder bricks (different underside supports which allow for different connection points IRL)

Ones that are unclear are:

• The handcuffs (have not compared IRL; may just be a material difference)
  
• The Hero Factory spike (have not handled both IRL; may just be a material difference)

In general it should also be noted that Bricklink can be unreliable in determining whether parts are different, even if AFOLs have identified obvious differences. One example is various Chinese-made variant parts from the early Collectible Minifigures series, and another is Darth Maul's head from the latest Sith Infiltrator set-- Bricklink says it's the same head decoration as on the classic Darth Maul minifigure, while anyone who does a side-by-side comparison should be able to detect the obvious differences.

Banjo, on 22 September 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Yes... and that's exactly what I do! :) Quite handy, and makes a lot of sense for giving us basically "two interfaces" in that Extended = "all parts, paint yourself" and standard LDD = "parts only in released colours" (in theory, anyway). I like having the choice.

However, it confuses me why some parts are only in Extended mode... it's not like they put just the complex ones (electrics, etc) in there, either. At first I wondered if newly added parts go in Extended first, as a kind of "beta" testing stage for them? What defines a part as "Extended only"?

Extended-mode only parts tend to be either parts introduced to sets most recently, parts which have never existed in any colors on the current color palette (since the basic LDD mode doesn't include any discontinued colors), and certain parts which are deliberately omitted from the basic LDD mode because they might cause confusion (for instance, the 1x1 cone variants). However, what gets put on the basic LDD mode and what doesn't is an imprecise process, so things don't necessarily follow strict "rules". Some variant parts do have both versions on the basic LDD mode for various reasons (for instance, the BIONICLE/HF Y-joints, which exist in different colors from one another). Some newer parts do sneak into the LDD basic mode, though none of the new parts from the latest update have since the LDD basic mode's palette has remained unchanged in 4.3.5. I'm sure Superkalle could get a more direct answer from the LDD team, but these are just the patterns I've seen, and they're not authoritative by any means.

[Superkalle]

The story continues (thanks for great discussion  )

Aanchir, on 22 September 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

The "visual appearance" part is where things get tricky. Almost all of these parts are visually different than their variants. And a lot of people could also probably find ways to take advantage of their functional differences-- even slightly different dimensions on the underside of a brick can make a difference, as some people have discovered when certain arch pieces have been re-molded with different wall thicknesses, or when the interior supports were added to the macaroni brick.

The macaroni-piece is a special case, since the bracing on the updated brick was placed in such a way that it could only be connected "in two ways". When I'm talking about "reinforcement bars" on the underside of the bricks, I'm referring to the ones like the 3x4 wedge plates. The difference here is more minute changes to the reinforcement, and I can't see how they would alter how the brick is used even with the best of imagination.

Quote

The bricks on this list that I'd consider 100% interchangeable in both function and appearance are:

• The 1x1 cone
  
• The lightsaber hilt
  
• The 2x2 plate
  
• The 2x4x3 brick
  
• The 2x8 brick
  
• The 1x2 tile
  
• The 1x4x3 panel
  
• The 1x2x3 panel
  
• The broadsword (since, as I mentioned, they are exactly the same piece-- use the "shape selection tool" to see this for certain)

Agree

Quote

Ones that are verifiably NOT interchangeable are:

• Qui-Gon's hair (different texture)
  
• The "girl" wig (different texture)
  
• The treads (different shape)
  
• The arch pieces (different wall thicknesses)
  
• The 3x4 wedge plates (different underside supports)
  
• The "S" bricks (different supports beneath column which allow for different connection points IRL)
  
• The quarter-cylinder bricks (different underside supports which allow for different connection points IRL)

- The wigs I don't know if there is a difference in the physical bricks (but I can see there is a difference in LDD)
- The treads have minute reinforcement when looking at the physcial bricks that are virtually impossible to notice for any normal builder. It's only a matter of difference bracing for increased strength and will not affect any kind of usage.
- The large arch is OK, because there you can see the difference on the underside allowing you to connect a stud
- The smaller arch however has not difference at all between them. The only difference I know of is that the LEGO logo was turned 90 degrees on the stud.
- Same with 3x4 wedge plate. Only difference in bracing that will not affect building in any way (IMHO)
- S-brick I agree on. One of them allows a middle stud connectivity.
- Quarter cylind bricks I agree on too (but there I spotted a bug in LDD, since the old one allows placement of studs in places it shouldn't. Reported.)

Quote

Ones that are unclear are:

• The handcuffs (have not compared IRL; may just be a material difference)
  
• The Hero Factory spike (have not handled both IRL; may just be a material difference)

Agree, difficult to know the difference.

[Philo]

Quote

- The treads have minute reinforcement when looking at the physcial bricks that are virtually impossible to notice for any normal builder. It's only a matter of difference bracing for increased strength and will not affect any kind of usage.

Not so sure.... When used with backwards curvature, these minute reinforcement change the minimum radius that can be obtained. These big hollow wheel structures are used eg. in GBC modules. See for example http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=337999 and http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=241800

[Calabar]

It is not exactly a bug, but something similar.

Opening LDD in a 1280x800 display, I can't see the last line in the colour palette when I use the bucket.
I think the problem could be even worse on a 16:9 1366x768 display.

Still think the left sidebar would be a better place for the colour palette.

[Superkalle]

Philo, on 24 September 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Not so sure.... When used with backwards curvature, these minute reinforcement change the minimum radius that can be obtained. These big hollow wheel structures are used eg. in GBC modules. See for example http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=337999 and http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=241800

Thanks for the info

[hrontos]

Calabar, on 25 September 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think the problem could be even worse on a 16:9 1366x768 display.

Yes, I use that resolution on the notebook, the palette does not fully fit on screen, bottom of the palette is outside screen boundaries.

[Superkalle]

Calabar, on 25 September 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

It is not exactly a bug, but something similar.

Opening LDD in a 1280x800 display, I can't see the last line in the colour palette when I use the bucket.
I think the problem could be even worse on a 16:9 1366x768 display.

Still think the left sidebar would be a better place for the colour palette.

It's an important point.

Found this on the topic: http://techcrunch.co...s-now-1366x768/

Quote: Among those who will be happy to hear these numbers is surely Microsoft, which long ago decided that it would target 1366×768 as the standard resolution for Windows 8.

For the next version of LDD, I'm also hoping for a review of the GUI, including re-organizing the screen. Possibly making the color palette available all the time (like the brick palette is today). And with the increased width of screens today, maybe it can be put out to the side.

[AndyC]

Calabar, on 25 September 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Opening LDD in a 1280x800 display, I can't see the last line in the colour palette when I use the bucket.
I think the problem could be even worse on a 16:9 1366x768 display.

Yup, a similar problem exists when applying decorations, particularly for surfaces like the minifig head where all the available choices don't fit on-screen at 1366x768 and there is no way to scroll to see more.

[Masta' Blasta']

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned here yet, but I'll transfer this bug from the old thread.

Certain Hero Factory shells are shown in the incorrect colors while viewing LDD mode's brick palette. For instance, one of the shells appears to be transparent, but is actually gold when clicked on.

[Toa_Of_Justice]

I've been considering upgrading my monitor from 1280x1024 to 1920x1080, but seeing all the widescreen issues in this thread is making me think twice. Has anyone encountered issues with the UI running LDD in 1920x1080? LDD's basic mode seems to cut off decoration palettes on my current display, but not in Extended mode (where the palettes seem to be a little smaller).

-Toa Of Justice

[Calabar]

Toa_Of_Justice, on 27 September 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

I've been considering upgrading my monitor from 1280x1024 to 1920x1080, but seeing all the widescreen issues in this thread is making me think twice.

The issues are not related to widescreens, but to an insufficient vertical height some widescreen displays.
1080 points are enough to avoid any problem, while 768 or 800 points are not enough to display all the palette.

Anyway you could consider to buy a 16:10 display, with a 1920x1200 resolution (a bit more expensive, but better).
There are many interesting products, from the cheap but good BenQ VW2420H to the excellent Dell UltraSharp U2412M.

[Aanchir]

Speaking of LDD's widescreen palette issues, something that's not really a bug but rather an inconvenience: if you create a custom brick palette, then LDD mode's "Filter Bricks By Colors" button will always have the colors of bricks in that palette listed, whether or not you have the palette in question open. And because the bricks in your custom palette aren't available unless you use the "Filter Bricks By Boxes" tool, the colors that aren't on the default LDD mode color palette include no bricks at all. It just makes the already-large color palette take up more space and potentially stretch off the screen.

[Toa_Of_Justice]

Calabar, on 27 September 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

The issues are not related to widescreens, but to an insufficient vertical height some widescreen displays.
1080 points are enough to avoid any problem, while 768 or 800 points are not enough to display all the palette.

Anyway you could consider to buy a 16:10 display, with a 1920x1200 resolution (a bit more expensive, but better).
There are many interesting products, from the cheap but good BenQ VW2420H to the excellent Dell UltraSharp U2412M.

Thanks for clearing that up. I will look into the suggestions you provided.

-Toa Of Justice

[Scorpion]

Okay, I've compiled a list of all identical or similar brick in LDD. They're divided in 3 categories:
- The Red ones are functionally and aesthetically identical to their counterparts.
- The Blue ones are aesthetically different but functionally identical.
- The Green ones have the same basic shape, but have different functionality. The main culprit of this is hollow studs instead of full studs, that being the only difference in most cases.

In every case, all the Red duplicates should be removed, with precedence given to the most recent DesignID. With regards to Blue and Green duplicates, Blue duplicates should be eliminated in the basic LDD mode (with the same rules as for Red duplicates), to simplify part selection, while both Blue and Green duplicates should be in LDD extended mode.

BTW, the old-style Techic turntable bug still hasn't been fixed, FYI.

What do you say, guys?
Scorpion

Attached Files

•  Duplicates.lxf   14.71K   10 downloads

[Aanchir]

Scorpion, on 29 September 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Okay, I've compiled a list of all identical or similar brick in LDD. They're divided in 3 categories:
- The Red ones are functionally and aesthetically identical to their counterparts.
- The Blue ones are aesthetically different but functionally identical.
- The Green ones have the same basic shape, but have different functionality. The main culprit of this is hollow studs instead of full studs, that being the only difference in most cases.

In every case, all the Red duplicates should be removed, with precedence given to the most recent DesignID. With regards to Blue and Green duplicates, Blue duplicates should be eliminated in the basic LDD mode (with the same rules as for Red duplicates), to simplify part selection, while both Blue and Green duplicates should be in LDD extended mode.

BTW, the old-style Techic turntable bug still hasn't been fixed, FYI.

What do you say, guys?
Scorpion

It should be noted that the clips 6019 and 61252 are aesthetically identical in LDD not in real life. This is 61252, this is 6019. The same is true of 3139 and 59895.

Also, 4623 and 88072 are not functionally identical They have different dimensions. If you place a brick on top of the studs of 4623, you can fit a sideways tile between the brick and the vertical shaft. This is not possible with 88072. However, 88072 is not by any means inferior--the easiest way to see how the newer version can be useful is to attach the brick 95820 or 30237 to it. 88072's dimensions are more ideal for lots and lots of applications, since the center of the vertical shaft is 1/2 a module away from the side of the plate.

2376 and 74698 are visually similar but actually slightly different in function. One of them has a loop that is the same width as a Technic half-pin, the other has one that is the same width as a plate. This makes very little difference when using a Technic element through the loop (or just using it to connect to a string or hook), but the older 2376 can be used more widely in System building as an irregularly-shaped SNOT element.

As Superkalle has pointed out in the past, 3063 and 85080 are different in that one has supports underneath and one does not. On LDD this makes very little difference, but in real life this means that 3063 can more easily be built into a sturdy 4x4 column by rotating each layer of bricks 45 degrees.

3455 and 92950 are also functionally different. Elements like 61068, 88930, 93273, and 93604 fit perfectly underneath the newer version, 3455. Not so with 92950. However, I believe some builders are partial to 3455. I can't remember the real-life advantages it offers.

58827 and 95347 are functionally different because they have their horizontal supports in different places (58827 has one halfway up the column, while 95347 has two at smaller increments up the column). Since you can attach Technic elements to a central Technic axle through the open side of either column, this makes a big difference-- the newer version has a sizeable space between the two horizontal supports, between which no Technic elements can be attached.

Those are the most major oversights in this file. There are other subtle functional differences, like the amount of friction certain hinge pieces offer, but in LDD these could never be made to amount to functional differences unless a physics engine of some kind were installed, and even then it's doubtful many builders would make use of such differences.

[JayLogan]

I don't know if anybody else noticed this, but I was trying to make a picture in LDD with built in tool. After I set the background and took the picture I checked it and there was no background on the picture. After trying a few more setting in the "preferences" menu, I figured out what caused the problem: I checked "high-quality rendering of bricks placed in the scene" and "advanced shading" was on max. If these two weren't used, the background appeared on the final image.

[vynsane]

JayLogan, on 30 September 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

I checked "high-quality rendering of bricks placed in the scene" and "advanced shading" was on max. If these two weren't used, the background appeared on the final image.

Interesting... I guess I've always had these options on, since I've always had PNG screenshots output with a transparent background. Frankly I dislike the limited, rather silly looking backgrounds that come in LDD by default, so I appreciate the transparency - but to each their own.

[Lance]

FOr some reason whenever I try to start LDD it freezes. Every single time.

[Calabar]

Lance, on 02 October 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

FOr some reason whenever I try to start LDD it freezes. Every single time.

Did you check the "LDD startup and advanced graphics problems" topic?
Get the link here.

[DOTM Shockwave]

Part #98565 doesn't attach to mid-ball joints on the HF bone pieces (ex. part #90609)

Hopefully these photos show what I mean:

This shows #98565 connecting to the outer ball of #90609

This shows #98565 not recognizing in inner ball of #90609 as a connection point

[drdavewatford]

Glad to see Eurobricks back up again !

I've recently 'upgraded' to the latest iMac OS (Mountain Lion I think) and now I can't see the outlines on the pieces when I use LDD, and the option to switch this feature on is greyed out in the menu. Is there a fix ?

Thanks,

D.

[Superkalle]

drdavewatford, on 11 October 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

I've recently 'upgraded' to the latest iMac OS (Mountain Lion I think) and now I can't see the outlines on the pieces when I use LDD, and the option to switch this feature on is greyed out in the menu. Is there a fix ?

I'm not sure to be honest. Does any of you Mac users know?

PS: For this type of bugs, report it to the LEGO customer services as well....just to make sure the LDD Team get error reports also via the official channels.

[swils]

So I don't think this is exactly a bug, and certainly not one exclusive to this version, but it seemed like this was an appropriate place to post/ask, as opposed to making a new thread.

I've got a pretty solid tower.  I've done lots of CAD work on it with no issue.  I can use MLCAD and SR3D just fine.  However, LDD frequently lags/hangs when I'm using it, especially when I'm dealing with plates.  The model display will freeze as-is, and only reflect changes after I make that change, as opposed to real-time dragging objects around.  I pick up a piece and try to move it, but its model stays in place, while I'm left dragging around an invisible entity, one that doesn't outline a piece in green when it's trying to snap to it, etc.  LDD is still working and I can place the piece, I just can't see myself moving and placing the piece.  I've run into the problem when I try to mess with very large files, but plates seem to be a death sentence for even new files.  I've tried various display settings but encounter it regardless.

Any thoughts?