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The HMS Bellerophon


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51 replies to this topic  – Started by Norrington , Jan 24 2007 04:08 PM

#1 Norrington

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 04:08 PM

Posted Image 4a & 2a MLCadd

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Picture is link to Brickshelf folder.

Well, this ship is one of the best i've ever seen, and it was the ship that carried one of my Idols, Napoleon Bonaparte to his exile on St. Helena.

Now this man needs to do the HMS Victory, the flagship of my other Idol, Admiral Lord Viscount Nelson, an considering all this work, I'm sure he'd do it very well.

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#2 El Bucanero

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 09:33 PM

,

#3 Mister Phes

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 04:03 AM

What do you mean there are no cannons Mr Tiber?  I can see one obvious cannon at a seconds glance!


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#4 Bonaparte

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 10:19 AM

View PostMr Tiber, on Jan 26 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

Too bad there are no cannons...
It does have cannons

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Be aware Mr. Tiber, if you meet this ship in battle, such a misjudgment can cost you your ship  X-D

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#5 El Bucanero

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 11:48 AM

View PostMister Phes, on Jan 27 2007, 05:03 AM, said:

What do you mean there are no cannons Mr Tiber?  I can see one obvious cannon at a seconds glance!

I mean, the picture I posted would look alot nicer if the cannons were popping out...

#6 Mister Phes

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 12:15 AM

Get a load of this stern!

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Its like is some kind of floating hotel!


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#7 Imperator Viktor Napoleon

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 03:12 AM

I like it.  Increase mast height and it's perfect.
truly spectacular stern.

#8 Bonaparte

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 08:41 AM

This color scheme if one on the best and most realistic.
These colors are very typical for an English ship of the line.
The stern look great indeed.

The Imperator is correct about the masts not being high enough.
The biggest mast (what's it called?) should be about as high as the length of the hull of the ship.

View PostNorrington, on Jan 24 2007, 05:08 PM, said:

Well, this ship is one of the best i've ever seen, and it was the ship that carried one of my Idols, Napoleon Bonaparte to his exile on St. Helena.

Don't believe everything you hear Mr. Norrington, I'm still here   :-P

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#9 Mister Phes

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:18 AM

Most realistic colour scheme you say, Mr Bonaparte?  

You don't happen to have an image of real life ship with these exact colours, because I wouldn't have said this particular colour scheme was the realistic.


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#10 Bonaparte

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 12:35 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Feb 2 2007, 11:18 AM, said:

Most realistic colour scheme you say, Mr Bonaparte?  

You don't happen to have an image of real life ship with these exact colours, because I wouldn't have said this particular colour scheme was the realistic.

I do Mr. Phes. This picture was actually posted by Mr. Tiber in the Excalibur thread.
You see the ship-of-the-line HMS Victory (has 1 more gundeck as the Bellerophon) at the battle of Trafalgar.
My next MOC will be a ship-of-the-line like this one (with some improvement like higher masts, real cannons on the upper deck, a crew, sails, interior details). This will be a very big project but I have already started preparations (bought 2 Black Seas Barracuda's on Ebay without boxes for their pieces). But first I will be finishing the Excacibur which might still take considerable time.

What I would like to know: Is this ship build on a standard Lego hull? How much mid-sections are used?
I have contacted the creator of this lovely ship and invited him to join the discussion.

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And here is one of the HMS Bellerophon for comparison:
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My 800th post!

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#11 Mister Phes

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 03:01 PM

Thank you for providing the image Bonaparte and contact the creator.

My estimate would be about 6 mid hull section.


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#12 Bonaparte

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 04:17 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Feb 2 2007, 04:01 PM, said:

Thank you for providing the image Bonaparte and contact the creator.

My estimate would be about 6 mid hull section.

I'm counting between 65-70 studs for the mid section.
This would give us 8 or 9 midsections! (8 studs/midsection)
But i'm not convinced this ship uses the Lego mid sections. My guess is that the hull is custom made.
I would very much like to get the MLCad design files of this ship.

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#13 Paladin

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 04:18 PM

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 2 2007, 07:35 AM, said:

What I would like to know: Is this ship build on a standard Lego hull? How much mid-sections are used?
I have contacted the creator of this lovely ship and invited him to join the discussion.

Indeed I have been contacted! Greetings!

I am the creator of this ship you all are discussing. Thank you bonaparte for inviting me into the discussion.

First of all this ship does not use lego standard hull sections. It is fully built up of bricks. The base of it is made using mostly 8x16 brick plates, then 45-degree inverse black 2x2 slopes are used to angle the hull up from the water line (which is a close approximation to the angle of a "standard" boat hull).

This is done for two reasons, first and foremost because I needed to make the ship much wider than the boat hulls allow to get a proper length to beam ratio that "looked" right, that and it allowed me to use whatever colors I wanted, in this case black and yellow (with some blue trim inboard). The second reason is strength, this model is extremely strongly built. I can grap it up with two hands by the nose and flip it up completely vertical without it bending or breaking and it weighs nearly 20 lbs (and it's fun to watch people wince)! Why overbuild it this strong? Because it does shows, it has to endure loading and unloading at various venues.

Were it to have been done with boat hulls you'd need to cut them to spread them wider and then I'd say it's close to 6 or 7 mid-sections long (from stem to stern I think it's something like 18 to 24 inches)...I can measure it at home if anyone is interested in the exact dimensions...

However it is mostly hollow, it's not just full of junk-color bricks, it has distinct gun decks, but it is built at about 1/2 minifig scale (1 stud = ~2 feet), although it typically gets figs put on it at shows for the kids.

There are lego cannon on the two main gun decks, there are a little over 50 cannon. The upper deck has my version of carronades (which is historically innacurate for Bellerophon, but plausable...USS Constitution's original specification was for the upper deck to be all Carronades, and is her current gun configuration as she sits in Boston after her last renovation). That was mostly done for aesthetic reasons. To keep the upper deck "clean" looking. Plus lego cannon are NOT cheap. I think it was the single most expensive part of the build on that model. In all the ship has a main battery of 80 guns (40 per side) with two bow chasers and two stern chasers. The reason the cannons aren't able to be "run out" is again, because of transportation and maintenence concerns. If they were on wheels and loose there'd be no way I could get into the ship to upright them or align them if they got jostled around in a car ride. The cannon are simply secured down to the plates they're mounted on. They're not permanently out or the gun doors couldn't close...a compromise so to speak. In any case you wouldn't want to get close to this ship's broadside were I to use it in a Lego Naval sim game  :-P, if you set a Black Seas Baraccuda next to it the lower gun deck is at hull level on the BSB, the mid gun deck is at main deck level of the BSB and the upper deck would be around the quarter deck and upper masts of the BSB...it wouldn't stand a chance I'm afraid...

As for the masts...yes they are shorter than spec but they were as tall as I could make lego masts be without resorting to using some odd looking technic device or building them out of 2/2 rounds (which would have been fairly unstable). Again this was chosen for the robust characteristics of the lego masts. With all the sails on, at outdoors shows this thing has been known to actually catch the wind. Usually the masts hold...if they were less strong they'd often break, either in transit or in outdoor winds. That and, the lego masts are aesthetically "better" looking IMHO.

The bulges on the aft-cabin were again a compromise. I wanted to use the lattice-pane windows for a better aesthetic look but mounting them on an angle was difficult and there needed to be a slight bulge there for the aft-cabin (that's where the captain's privvy was BTW...well on some ships!). I ended up playing around with some bits and pieces untill I managed that design. It isn't the best but it's relatively decent. The back of the aft-cabin I feel is somewhat accurate, it would have been rows of ornate windows and such, especially on larger, prestigious ships of the line. I'm not sure on 3rd-Rates but certainly on 2nd and 1st rate SOTL on which admirals of the fleet may have commanded aft cabins would have been opulent in some cases. The window section of the back folds down (it's the same concept as the back of the BSB) and you can access the interior of the aft-cabin. It's not furnished, but the upper portion has a black and white parquet floor.

Another notable aspect of this model is that I completely rendered it in MLCAD. I knew how I wanted to build it from building Constitution free hand. So I did a complete virtual build of the whole model, primarily to generate a shopping list, and work out proportions. Then I bought exact amounts of parts on BrickLink. Doing it this way made it very cost effective to build. As I said the Cannon were expensive...however the overall total parts cost was about $250 USD. There are around 2,500 parts in the model. At $0.10 a part that is spot on what the cost ratio is for a purchased lego set. The cannon averaged $2.00 each...but black and especially yellow brick is dirt cheap comparitively. I do indeed have plans in the future for a 1st rate, and it will of course be Nelson's Victory  >8-)

Here is Bellerophon and Constitution at a purpose built dockyard on the IndyLUG section of the ILTCO layout at the 2006 NMRA National Train Show this past year in Philadelphia...

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How do you put a naval scene in a train show? The idea is a naval parade celebrating Independance Day in the USA (The show was held the weekend after Independance Day, which is July 4th)

#14 Mister Phes

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 04:40 PM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 3 2007, 03:18 AM, said:

Indeed I have been contacted! Greetings! I am the creator of this ship you all are discussing. Thank you bonaparte for inviting me into the discussion.

Greetings Paladin!  Thank you for taking the time to join our forum and write this generously long post to educate us further on your wonderful HMS Bellerophon.

View PostPaladin, on Feb 3 2007, 03:18 AM, said:

First of all this ship does not use lego standard hull sections. It is fully built up of bricks. The base of it is made using mostly 8x16 brick plates, then 45-degree inverse black 2x2 slopes are used to angle the hull up from the water line (which is a close approximation to the angle of a "standard" boat hull).

When I looked at this picture...

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...I was thought that the hull was built of bricks, however looking a the photographs I was sure that they were actually hull pieces, so you've certainly done a good job in producing a nice smooth hull!


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#15 Norro

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 04:43 PM

A very nice ship, one of the best I've seen but it has an awful big rear  :-$

       God Bless,

               Nathan
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#16 Paladin

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 05:18 PM

Well thank you guys for the kind words!

Also I have some for you Norro...your MOC "Entrance to the Caves" was recently featured on the IndyLUG forums. That is absolutely spectacular.  *sweet*

#17 Bonaparte

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 07:08 PM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 2 2007, 05:18 PM, said:

Indeed I have been contacted! Greetings!

I am the creator of this ship you all are discussing. Thank you bonaparte for inviting me into the discussion.

Thanks for accepting my invitation and to make some time for us pirates!
I agree that once a ship reaches a certain size, its better to make a brick build hull.
I have some plans to build a ship like this and maybe I better follow that advise.
Building a ship like this on minifig scale might be a rather big undertaking.
I actually didn't notice that it was not on minifig scale  :-$

Btw, there is another discussion thread discussing the  Potempkin.

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#18 Mister Phes

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 01:28 AM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 3 2007, 04:18 AM, said:

Also I have some for you Norro...your MOC "Entrance to the Caves" was recently featured on the IndyLUG forums. That is absolutely spectacular.  *sweet*

If you're interested in discussing Entrance to the Caves then here is the Eurobricks thread Norro originally posted it in.  You did post it at Eurobricks first, did you not Mr Norro?


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#19 Norro

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 07:20 PM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 2 2007, 05:18 PM, said:

Well thank you guys for the kind words!

Also I have some for you Norro...your MOC "Entrance to the Caves" was recently featured on the IndyLUG forums. That is absolutely spectacular.  *sweet*

Thanks a million! And as noted on your site I did visit your layout at the 500 Festival two years ago... But I still haven't tried my hand at a ship... though this one is so gorgeous it really has me thinking...


View PostMister Phes, on Feb 3 2007, 01:28 AM, said:

You did post it at Eurobricks first, did you not Mr Norro?

I normally post here first (or Lugnet on occasion, depends which I'm browsing while finishing up the rough post) so I would assume so. I then relay castle specific items to CC... I also preview my MOCs a long time in advance on EB if you know where to look  ;-) ...

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#20 Mister Phes

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 01:15 AM

Now I have a question for Mr Paladin...

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Did The HMS Bellerophon start as a an MLCad design, or was it designed in MLCad AFTER it was constructed with LEGO?


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#21 Bonaparte

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 01:20 AM

View PostMister Phes, on Feb 4 2007, 02:15 AM, said:

Now I have a question for Mr Paladin...

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Did The HMS Bellerophon start as a an MLCad design, or was it designed in MLCad AFTER it was constructed with LEGO?

You might need to buy some good glasses Mr. Phes  :-D

View PostPaladin, on Feb 2 2007, 05:18 PM, said:

Another notable aspect of this model is that I completely rendered it in MLCAD. I knew how I wanted to build it from building Constitution free hand. So I did a complete virtual build of the whole model, primarily to generate a shopping list, and work out proportions. Then I bought exact amounts of parts on BrickLink. Doing it this way made it very cost effective to build.

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#22 Capn Kirk 911

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 03:56 PM

ooh, I like the color sceme, and the home made flags look great nice job! ;-)

#23 El Bucanero

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 04:00 PM

View PostCapn Kirk 911, on Feb 4 2007, 02:56 PM, said:

ooh, I like the color sceme, and the home made flags look great nice job! ;-)

Errr Home made flags? I don't see any, they all look like the Bluecoats flag...

#24 Capn Kirk 911

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 04:09 PM

sorry, I ment the sails!

#25 El Bucanero

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 04:10 PM

Ah I see... What do you think about the stern Capn Kirk?




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