14 replies to this topic

[Blakbird]

I was browsing the Internet for cool Technic MOCs recently, like I do every day, and I came upon the review of a MOC on SETECHNIC by someone called Five Star Brick. It was a remote controlled pneumatic wheeled excavator with full instructions. Upon some further, I found his Brickshelf page and found that he has full instructions for another model, a remote controlled pneumatic wheeled loader. Not only are the instructions top notch, but the complexity of the models is marvelous. I started building an LDraw file of the wheel loader. You can see an image of the completed gear system below. This thing is awesome! I will be building it soon. The problem is, these instructions were posted in 2005 and the email address in them is no good. Does anyone know who Five Star Brick is? I would like to contact him/her about these models. On a side note, stare at this render and/or the instructions for a while and try to figure out how this thing works. It is a very challenging thought exercise.

Edited by Blakbird, 08 September 2010 - 04:04 PM.

[Silcantar]

Judging by that geartrain, that's the Brickshelf account God uses to share his Lego MOCs.  I am convinced that if God has a favorite toy, it's Lego.

[TechnicJuan]

I would really like to see a video of that in action. There is quite a lot going on there.

[Zblj]

wow..... looks like a differential adder subtractor, but with two gears?

[Anio]

Hi everyone !

I built the FSB002, and it is a great model !  
It is very well designed and everything on it works very smoothly. :)
You may look at my video on my website or on my youtube.

It uses many rare or complex parts, so, it is a very expensive MOC.
I sold it some time ago because now I have the 8043 (wireless   ) and because I need money to buy parts for my UCS.

I've been trying many times to be in touch with the famous Fivestarbrick to send him a little money in order to thanks him for his work. I never succeeded.  

As for the front loaer FSB001 : Blakbird, do not waste your time, this MOC does not work at all.

I didn't write any review of SeTechnic since this MOC is a fail.  
But I explained how it works : http://www.setechnic...7214.html#p7214 (honnestly, it seems impossible to know how it works only with the building instruction O_o)

In short :
- first the model is controled with the same controller as FSB002, although it is not visible on the photos I did.
- the bucket works fine
- the arm rises well to. The kinematic of the arm is interesting and a bit surprising (red parts). When it goes down, the arm sometime clings on the cabin.
- the third pneumatic function is used to... switch the functions. O_o Impressive, isn't it ?
- then, you have 2 modes : either one RCX motor drive the model and the other one is for steering, or, one motor drive the left wheels and the other one the right wheels.
- and finally, the playability : the model sucks.   Nothing works perfectly.

If you drive straight forward with AWD (with 3 differentials, like 8466   ), it is ok. The steering works so so... Moreover, there is no white clutch. So, you sometime hear gear cracking. :s But after all, that's logical : a clutch is not viable since the motor is used for driving in the other mode.
I also have been compelled to file the yellow ball of the steering (ref x873c01), because there was MUCH too friction because of them (which nearly prevented the steering from working).  
With mode 2 (drive on left and right side), it is even worse. The steering (which work just like an excavator) do not work at all. You really can not steer. All the gears crack with horrible sound.  
You can't either go straight forward since the only constraints caused by the ground are enough to steer the wheels ! O_*
Actually, there is far too much loose in the steering mechanism. You can steer the wheels without drive the RCX motor.   (too much gear down)

If you have any other question, I will try to answer.

And sorry for the many mistakes I may have done is that message (hard for me to explain technical things in English).

Edited by Anio, 20 August 2010 - 09:58 AM.

[Dannnohhh]

Thanks for starting this thread Blakbird, I too built the FSB001 and love it despite the steering and shreaded gears it caused (very well described by Anio and I agree with him, but still like it).

The complexity and great engineering that Five Star Bricks put into it makes me want to rebuild it with PF motors and tread links to negate the steering problems but keep the rest of the his design (uhm, its on my technic project list). I remember a discussion on lugnet that FSB planned on charging for instructions but because of the problems just posted them for free on BS.

I hope he/she's around because its well worth some revision with the new parts available.

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

Some time ago, I also came across the FSB002 on SeTechnic, and started looking for 5-star bricks on the Internet, but wasn't able to find who he/she really is. So I just as interested in the answer to Blakbird's question.

[Blakbird]

Anio, on 20 August 2010 - 09:11 AM, said:

As for the front loaer FSB001 : Blakbird, do not waste your time, this MOC does not work at all.

In short :
- first the model is controled with the same controller as FSB002, although it is not visible on the photos I did.
- the bucket works fine
- the arm rises well to. The kinematic of the arm is interesting and a bit surprising (red parts). When it goes down, the arm sometime clings on the cabin.
- the third pneumatic function is used to... switch the functions. O_o Impressive, isn't it ?
- then, you have 2 modes : either one RCX motor drive the model and the other one is for steering, or, one motor drive the left wheels and the other one the right wheels.
- and finally, the playability : the model sucks. Nothing works perfectly.

Thanks for the reply. From building the LDraw file and staring at all the gears, that's almost exactly the same conclusion I came to about it works. Almost.

The pneumatic functions are obvious enough, except the complex geometry of the lift mechanism (which was REALLY hard to get right in MLCAD).

There are four driving rings which shift functions simultaneously. When shifted forward, one motor drives all four wheel with 3 differentials: left, right, and center. The other motor steers. One problem I can see with the steering is that the two sides are connected together with angle connectors which are in tension. They can pull apart which makes the steering loose. This could be improved with a rigid link of some kind.

In the other mode, it's true that one motor is connected to the left side and one to the right side to drive the wheels. However, from what I can tell, the left and right sides are still connected together. That means you can't really skid steer or you'll get the horrible gear cracking you described. Of course, I could be wrong since I haven't actually built it. The differential between the two sides should allow some range of unequal motion, but the ring gear on the diff will be backdriving the rest of the unpowered gear train if the two sides are not going the same speed. I would also guess that the final stage of bevel gears that goes to the wheels slips a lot. There is nothing really holding this set of gears tight together.

In any case, the MOC is brilliant and I think I'll have to try it even if it is not perfect.

[grindinggears]

I have built FSB001 as well and I desperately have to admit that Anio is completely right: Only the pneumatic functions work well, but all gears are slipping and cracking.

It amazed me that this insanely complex gear puzzle has a real counterpart: The Bobcat A300 All-Wheel-Steer loader.
(Here you can find the German version of its product page.)

I think with the PF motors and some new elements it would be possible to face this challenge again and create a more rigid model with better playability. Maybe someone here wants to build it?

[Blakbird]

Is anybody here competent using SR3D Builder? I have now completed my LDraw file of this model which has all the gears in it. Someone could import it into SR3D and actually virtually try out all the gear systems and see how (and if) they work. I don't know if SR3D support differentials and driving rings yet though. Obviously the people who have built it have pointed out a number of serious flaws, but it would be interesting to see if the gear system at least works kinematically but there is just too much flex and gear skipping in the structure.

[CP5670]

That gearing setup has probably passed the limits of what is practical and useful with Lego, but it's still a very cool proof of concept. I like to build things like this too, not really as part of an actual model but just to see what is possible with Technic.

Blakbird, on 20 August 2010 - 09:45 PM, said:

Is anybody here competent using SR3D Builder? I have now completed my LDraw file of this model which has all the gears in it. Someone could import it into SR3D and actually virtually try out all the gear systems and see how (and if) they work. I don't know if SR3D support differentials and driving rings yet though. Obviously the people who have built it have pointed out a number of serious flaws, but it would be interesting to see if the gear system at least works kinematically but there is just too much flex and gear skipping in the structure.

This is easy enough to try. Load the file in SR3D Builder (it supports ldraw files natively), select any gear in the drivetrain in the "brick selection" mode, switch to the "animation mode" and drag the gear. The animation system usually works very nicely, although I think it considers differentials to be on a separate geartrain from the bevel gears inside and might not work on an adder/subtracter mechanism.

Edited by CP5670, 20 August 2010 - 11:27 PM.

[BachAddict]

According to MOCpages, his name is Örs Szathmáry. There is a Örs Szathmáry on Facebook and LinkedIn, but I can't be sure if he's the same one.

[captainmib]

BachAddict, on 29 December 2011 - 09:47 PM, said:

According to MOCpages, his name is Örs Szathmáry. There is a Örs Szathmáry on Facebook and LinkedIn, but I can't be sure if he's the same one.

Nice necro batman!

[nielsvdv]

Zblj, on 20 August 2010 - 06:00 AM, said:

wow..... looks like a differential adder subtractor, but with two gears?

i think it is indeed a subtractor.

i used a subtractor in my tatra 8x8 once, just for trying.
it had the capability to give the left or right side of the tyres more speed, so for a tatra with no diffs, this was a solution to better cornering.. i later skipped to skid steering as a plus for cornering.. witch was brilliantly strong :)

i guess it had the same purpose as in my tatra, no diffs for better offroad capability, but stil some top notch cornering.

a video of the tatra with the limited subtractor:

[dhc6twinotter]

The FSB002 looks really nice!   Good looking cab.     

The  FSB001 looks nice, but from what I've heard, it doesn't work well.   I believe Paul (crowkillers) said he built this model too.   In my opinion, it is way too over-complicated for what is trying to be done.

Edited by dhc6twinotter, 30 December 2011 - 01:25 AM.