Are the large ridges on friction pins really needed?

[allanp]

So are the large ridges on friction pins really needed? Take the 3M friction pin for example. It has a large ridge which cannot pass through a hole and a smaller compressible ridge that can pass through a hole. I can't think of a single situation where the larger ridge is needed. You could just have two of the smaller ridges and it would still work the same but you would also be able it insert/remove it without having to take the whole model apart. You could do this to all friction pins and they would all work the same but it would also allow you to legally build things like this:

It would also open up lots of other new possibilities when designing new parts. Any thoughts?

Edited August 29, 2014 by allanp

[Zerobricks]

It probably there to limit how far inside can you push the pin. Lots of mechanics may jam if there's a pin sticking out. Also it keep the pin from sliding out on itself.

[MajklSpajkl]

Good point, but I feel there might be quite a lot of situations, when you pass the point of no return... similar suicide like using 2L axle to attach a 3L connector inbetween the 5x7 frame...

[allanp]

I don't think it would slide. It would be as likely as this part sliding out I guess:

Good point, but I feel there might be quite a lot of situations, when you pass the point of no return... similar suicide like using 2L axle to attach a 3L connector inbetween the 5x7 frame...

True. Hmmmmmm. I guess for this to be problem you would need a piece with a blind round hole (like the front of a PF motor) that can fit perfectly inside a frame. I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

Edited August 29, 2014 by allanp

[allanp]

It probably there to limit how far inside can you push the pin. Lots of mechanics may jam if there's a pin sticking out. Also it keep the pin from sliding out on itself.

After reading this a second time there may be a drawback from TLGs perspective. Removing that limit you mentioned to how far the pin can be pushed into the hole might make it a bit harder for younger kids to assemble sets without pushing pins too far in when placing two beams together for example. Yes I think I see your first point now. Good thinking.

Edited August 29, 2014 by allanp

[MajklSpajkl]

True. Hmmmmmm. I guess for this to be problem you would need a piece with a blind round hole (like the front of a PF motor) that can fit perfectly inside a frame. I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

I don't know, there are many ways to "end" your foe - the 5x7 technic frame :-)

[Paul Boratko]

One thing about those pins that I've noticed is that if you place the pin through 3 liftarms, the longer end with the 2L worth of pin sticks out a bit past the liftarm and can catch on things while the other end will not do that...

As for the ridge, it is most likely there as a fail-safe guide...

[allanp]

I think they could tweak the dimensions and clutch power to make them work but you guys are right. The more I think about it I think the way the pins are at the moment it probably wouldn't work. Oh well, not all my ideas can be winners, thanks for the feedback guys

[Erik Leppen]

I have thought about this as well. It would be neat to have a pin without the large ring, that can be pushed through. I think the main reason for the rings is building ease. In all of Technic, the building order is beam, then pins, then the other beam. The rings on the pins make sure that when applying the second beam, the pins don't push through, are misaligned and could hit whatever's behind the first beam. If the ring weren't there you'd need to align all pins after applying the second beam, and who knows if your finger can reach that spot.

So, while neat, I think it would create more problems than it would solve. Yes it would allow for some new constructions. But it would make almost all other constructions harder to build. Also, lots of what you're showing can be done with axles currently. All you'd be losing is the friction, and you'll have to add something to prevent the axles sliding out.

That said, I'm all for a specialized part that looks like a pin without rings. In a sense, the thicker equivalent of a bar. Would be a nice part for a 4L friction pin?

[Moz]

One other complication is that it would likely be made in DBG or dark tan, just because TLG are fixated on colour coding everything. So we'd have yet another colour of pins visible from the outside of Technic models. Yay :(

What I'd really like is for them to bring back the black two-long axle-pin joiners (that BrickLink files under axles, because reasons). Currently they're insanely expensive on bricklink and there appears to be a total of about 1000 in existence.

[Zerobricks]

One other complication is that it would likely be made in DBG or dark tan, just because TLG are fixated on colour coding everything. So we'd have yet another colour of pins visible from the outside of Technic models. Yay :(

What I'd really like is for them to bring back the black two-long axle-pin joiners (that BrickLink files under axles, because reasons). Currently they're insanely expensive on bricklink and there appears to be a total of about 1000 in existence.

Can you post a link, what part do you mean?

[Moz]

Technic, Axle Pin with Friction Ridges Lengthwise

You can get one for a low price, but sort by number available and it gets very silly.

[CP5670]

One other complication is that it would likely be made in DBG or dark tan, just because TLG are fixated on colour coding everything. So we'd have yet another colour of pins visible from the outside of Technic models. Yay :(

What I'd really like is for them to bring back the black two-long axle-pin joiners (that BrickLink files under axles, because reasons). Currently they're insanely expensive on bricklink and there appears to be a total of about 1000 in existence.

I would like to see them revert to black for the 3L pins. I stocked up on the black ones a while ago, but they have become hard to get in quantity now. The blue ones look really ugly on models that are not blue. I can live with the color coding, but bright, primary colors like blue and red were very bad choices. They should stick with neutral colors like the grays and tans.

[SNIPE]

The ridge on a 3l axle with stop makes the axle not go in all the way if its a cross hole because cross holes aren't chamfered.

the ridge on a pin hole is so the pin doesn't fall out or separate the two parts slightly.

Now, are friction pins really needed?. when frictionless does the same and lets you put a bar through the hole.

[Moz]

I would like to see them revert to black for the 3L pins. I stocked up on the black ones a while ago, but they have become hard to get in quantity now. ... They should stick with neutral colors like the grays and tans.

Yes to muted colours, but really, what's wrong with black? I buy the black 3L pins when I am ordering stuff off someone who has them, because I prefer them to blue for most things but not so much that I'm willing to pay shipping on an order just of those. I'm also collecting gears in odd colours and trans Technic beams and liftarms, because some of the "how do the gears work" stuff is fun to do with real parts rather than computer animations. Plus it freaks kids out when they see purple 40T gears and other bright colours.

Interestingly 16 long axles in both white and black are becoming more common. I'm not sure why, but I appreciate it. And I admit that when I'm making "looks like Lego" models I'll often chop axles up to get the length I want in the colour I want. Or grind the ridges off pins so I can stick a 2L pin through a liftarm and have a half-width liftarm on each side of it. Effy has now made a 3D printed pin specifically for this, but I have a small collection of hand-modified ones as well.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Moz

[CP5670]

Black is ideal; as I said, I look for the black ones too. But if they had to color code them, I would rather have gotten dark gray ones than blue ones.

[N-4K0]

I don't mind blue 3L pins, but I do think dark gray is a good idea.

I don't, however, see why they made the 3/4 pins (?) tan instead of producing them in dark gray as they used to.

[Zerobricks]

I don't mind blue 3L pins, but I do think dark gray is a good idea.

I don't, however, see why they made the 3/4 pins (?) tan instead of producing them in dark gray as they used to.

Yeah it seems like TAN = no friction, same goes for the 3L frictionless pin. But than why is the 2L frictionless pin gray?

[efferman]

I have many 2l frictionless pins which are tan

[Zerobricks]

I have many 2l frictionless pins which are tan

Now thats new for me...gonna check BL I guess I missed out on stuff...

[Zerobricks]

Nope only Lgray and LBgray...

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=3673

[efferman]

It seems iam become old and dumb. mea culpa

[N-4K0]

Are you sure it's not modified 3L tan frictionless pins?