Inconsistent Scales in Sets

[fred67]

So I finally bought the King's Battle Chariot (fantasy era).

I only recently put together the drawbridge defense and this battle chariot. I thought the drawbridge defense was awesome, but in order to combine it with King's Castle, you have to elevate the entire King's Castle... I think I'm up to it, and I think the combination will be really cool.

But now I put together the chariot... and the first thing I noticed was that the King apparently had a chariot built that couldn't even go in the gate at the castle.

LEGO scale has always been terrible...

I realize they are sold as separate play sets, but you'd think they could go together, and it would be nice if TLG considered such when designing sets.

[Rick]

Your topic title could be a lot better but indeed you're probably right

Modularity was one of the great aspects of the castles of the 1980s. All sets could be combined by means of technic pins and, as far as I recall, all carriages could enter all the castle gates without a problem. I can imagine it being disappointing for parents and kids that a carriage that is sold in the same line as a castle can't even enter the castle. However, as a downside, the drawbridges of the 1980s castles merely crossed a bit of living room floor (not much of a defense).

[Sir Dillon]

I've edited the topic title to better reflect the subject of the thread. In the future please try to make your thread titles accurate to the content of the post.

[metalandi]

Well, the chariot is probably one of the worst lego castle vehicles ever, that's why i have still not bought it yet. The older chariots and vehicles are a lot better scaled, but this one is just way out of proportion. There were always some scale issues here and there, but on this one it blows everything.

[fred67]

Sorry. Fact is that LEGO scale is always out of whack, but then you need to accept there's no reasonable way to make sets to a real minifigure scale. A real castle would start at the size of my dining room table and get bigger from there, and cost $20,000.

I probably shouldn't have started the topic... it's not like it's something that's not already well known, but I was just thinking that, while they can't make a dining room table size castle, they could at scale things to work with each other a little better.

[Muha83]

Sorry. Fact is that LEGO scale is always out of whack, but then you need to accept there's no reasonable way to make sets to a real minifigure scale. A real castle would start at the size of my dining room table and get bigger from there, and cost $20,000.

I probably shouldn't have started the topic... it's not like it's something that's not already well known, but I was just thinking that, while they can't make a dining room table size castle, they could at scale things to work with each other a little better.

Exactlty it will cost much. I will price people out. If people want they can buy 3 kingdom castles for 240$ and make it two stories and twice as wide to fit a dinning table.

[Hoboman]

I am sorry fred67, but this is something I find funny. As an adult we elect to select a child's toy for our hobby. We know there are lots of true scaled figures out there. but we select the cartoonish childs toy. Then we worry the scale is off?

If I wanted my figures to match the vehicles, train sets, etc I would buy into something more like Metal wargame figures etc.

Your subtitle says 'What I hate about LEGO' well twhat you hate is exactly what I like. LEGO is fun, creative, cartoonish, childish, colorful, and not stuck on any one scale. I can make what I want and have them all on the table and it is still fun.

Just my .02

[Tycho McKorley]

As far as I'm concerned Lego is meant to be pulled apart and recombined into MOCs where we make the scale work for us. :-)

[fred67]

Your subtitle says 'What I hate about LEGO' well twhat you hate is exactly what I like.

My subtitle was changed... it originally said something like "No, I don't really hate LEGO."

[Hoboman]

As far as I'm concerned Lego is meant to be pulled apart and recombined into MOCs where we make the scale work for us. :-)

Thank you, I agree 100%.

My subtitle was changed... it originally said something like "No, I don't really hate LEGO."

Sorry, I never saw your "original" subtitle. Just the one that was there when I responded.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Daniel's Dad

[Rick]

As an adult we elect to select a child's toy for our hobby. We know there are lots of true scaled figures out there. but we select the cartoonish childs toy. Then we worry the scale is off?

You're of course all right about LEGO being primarily targeted at children and that MOCing is a big part of it to children and AFOLs alike. So, no one really expects accurate scale (outside, for example, the Modular Buildings range, and even those may be 'too small'), but I think children and parents will mind that the chariot that belongs to the same line as the castle they bought, won't fit through the castle gate and that the drawbridge can't be readily combined with that same castle. You would expect a certain degree of compatibility within a single theme (at a single point in time).

[Artanis I]

I think it's a reasonable beef. Surely the sets in the same line are supposed to be compatible with each other?

The Kingdoms catapults don't really fit through the castle or tower gates either (from memory). It would be so much better if they could be kept behind the defence during a siege instead of out where it's vulnerable.

[lightningtiger]

Here's another angle to look at this scale issue....the designer.....his or her whims as artist/model builder plus the price point or cost of the set will effect what appears on box art and finally a produced set under instructions by their bosses.

Yep, it;s a childs toy, but it's an art form to us AFOL's.

I'm a conformist! !

[Hoboman]

.....but I think children and parents will mind that the chariot that belongs to the same line as the castle they bought, won't fit through the castle gate and that the drawbridge can't be readily combined with that same castle. You would expect a certain degree of compatibility within a single theme (at a single point in time).

Come to my house and play LEGO with my six year old. He does not care. If he wants the chariot in the castle he picks it up and puts it in the castle.

Course he also puts the power minor drill right next to it, so the whole idea of scale and "lines" does not come into play for kids. It is us AFOLs who worry about lines and scale. Not kids and not the parents who are not AFOLs.

And as others have said, then build your MOC to fit what you want through the door.

EDIT: Fix spelling.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Daniel's Dad

[Rick]

Come to my house and play LEGO with my six year old. He does not care. If he wants the chariot in the castle he picks it up and puts it in the castle.

I wasn't really thinking about 6 year old, but more like 10 year old kids. I think at a certain age, as a kid it would become an issue for me. But that could just be me, kids also differ, some will mind, some won't. And you of course could say that at 10 years old, kids would also be adapting their castles or chariots or simply designing their own.

Anyway: we're probably making more of an issue of this than it really is.

[tchuk-norst]

Especially between the troll ship and any castle, or the pirate ship and soldier's fort

[blueandwhite]

Scale has always been a tricky issue for toys. While it's easy to make a small vehicle or chariot relatively in scale with a minifig, building a castle in anything close to minifig scale is simply not feasible. Most AFOLs are unable to produce castles or cathedrals that come close to being in scale for a minifig as such creations cost a small fortune. Taking it a step further; look at Star Wars sets like the Death Star or the Star Destroyer. Making either of these things even close to minifig scale is simply not possible.

This is nothing new to LEGO and it's hardly unique to the LEGO brand. Other toys are just as guilty with many playsets being dramatically smaller than they should be in actuality. This is one reason I find requests for a UCS style castle to be so absurd. Most fans don't appreciate just how expensive such a set would be. Even a small tower house could cost several hundred dollars. A decent sized castle would likely be well over one thousand dollars. Building a castle that is in-scale with a minifig is no easy feat so it should hardly be a surprise that something like a carriage or chariot doesn't fit over a small drawbridge. Heck, many real castles had gates which are far too small to accomodate a horse and carriage so I can't say that I find the original complaint to be all that serious.

[Rick]

Making either of these things even close to minifig scale is simply not possible.

Of course, a lot of sets in 'true' minifig scale would be hideously expensive. Not only for castles or forts, but for sets in almost any theme. For example, modular buildings already have big piece counts, but are still relatively 'small'.

Now that I think of it again, the issue may not be about realistic minifig scale or even relative scale between sets at all. It's more about being able to 'play' with the sets, i.e. drive a cart through a gate, park a car in a garage, etc. But again, compromises in price/piece count have to be struck and like has been concluded before, adults may be more occupied with the issue than kids are.

[Artanis I]

Now that I think of it again, the issue may not be about realistic minifig scale or even relative scale between sets at all. It's more about being able to 'play' with the sets, i.e. drive a cart through a gate, park a car in a garage, etc. But again, compromises in price/piece count have to be struck and like has been concluded before, adults may be more occupied with the issue than kids are.

For kids, any ridiculous solution can be explained and accepted without reservation by using the word "magic".

"The catapult can't go through that tiny door!"

"Yes it can!"

"How?"

"Magic."

"Ah."

[Jack Bricker]

I have to say that I agree with you. I really didn't like it that the two buildings in the Medieval Market Village were bigger than the towers on the Kings Castle, but that is the way Lego is. You work with what you got. That being said, I do wish that lego would keep scale in mind when they are building these sets.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Jack Bricker

[Rick]

I really didn't like it that the two buildings in the Medieval Market Village were bigger than the towers on the Kings Castle, but that is the way Lego is.

This largely has to do with the regular/retail lines versus the exclusives line (targeted largely at AFOLs). It's like comparing a City building (for example in 7641 City Corner) to a Modular Building (such as 10211 Grand Emporium).

[fred67]

This largely has to do with the regular/retail lines versus the exclusives line (targeted largely at AFOLs). It's like comparing a City building (for example in 7641 City Corner) to a Modular Building (such as 10211 Grand Emporium).

Agreed... while MMV was essentially a "castle" theme, it didn't really fit with the other sets, it's more advanced.

As an aside, when I lift up the King's Castle so that it fits with the drawbridge defense set, I'm imagining they all look good together... even though the MMV buildings are taller, the castle will be raised significantly and give the appearance of some grandeur. I think I have enough pieces, I just need the time.