Lego WW Theme and Playmobil

[WesternOutlaw]

Highlandcattle shared this set with me on the following post (Playmobil Town), and it got me looking at it more closely and thinking.

Playmobil discontinued their Western/Cowboy sets several years ago, but this is a brand new release (not even available in the US yet). They continue to bring back retired themes. Why do they do this? one might ask. I think it's because they continue to test the market to see if consumers/fans are still interested in these discontinued themes (in this case the Cowboy theme).

You can almost compare this to Lego's Legend collection, except for the fact that these are completely new sets. Wouldn't it be great to see Lego do the same with some retired themes like WW, Classic Castle, Pirates, etc. I think Playmobil is a step ahead to offer sets from retired themes.

What are your thoughts?

[Athos]

I'd prefer they didn't re-release the theme, I'd much rather they designed a new line of Western sets. I've got most of the originals and don't really need any more of those ones...

That playmobil sets would look great in Lego.

Steve

[WesternOutlaw]

I'd prefer they didn't re-release the theme, I'd much rather they designed a new line of Western sets. I've got most of the originals and don't really need any more of those ones...

That playmobil sets would look great in Lego.

Definately. I agree with you on both counts. Another aspect that Playmobil offers is the "play scene" like the Western set pictured above. Also, Lego never had Cowboys vs. Indians. It would be great to see Lego try this as well. I will buy this neat little set once available in the US.

[Bonaparte]

I think the Lego management should be replaced by the management from Playmobil :-D

We would see some great new themes (maybe even a Lego Roman theme!) and we get again pirates, classic castle,....

[Vaders_son]

A revival of CC would be great but is not really in sight I'd say (although I'm not a castle expert)

[Starwars4J]

A revival of CC would be great but is not really in sight I'd say (although I'm not a castle expert)

Check here

Pretty close to CC I'd say :-P

[Jipay]

I once red an article about playmobil sucess when Lego was in a reallly catastrophic situation (wasn't that long ago). The CEO of playmobil said they were aiming at continuity and were not going wild all over the place like lego with video games and flashy stuff.

Now some would argue there's no SW playmbil :-P

[ApophisV]

I noticed that we are currently selling at least 5 times more Playmobil than LEGO, and this a few days before christmas...

I think people see that Playmobil (actually the company's name is Geobra Brandst

[snefroe]

I noticed that we are currently selling at least 5 times more Playmobil than LEGO, and this a few days before christmas...

I think people see that Playmobil (actually the company's name is Geobra Brandst

[hewkii9]

Oooh, pretty. By this talk, I'd think that Playmobil is Lego's biggest threat...

[gylman]

Funny, in Canada you don't see nearly so much playmobile in the big stores. The specialized toy stores, however, have lots. Usually about the same amount as Lego.

Funny, I never understood the appeal of Playmobile.

[Section8]

A new western theme would be great, I never got any of the older ones but liked the set designs alot. There's plenty of promise for new and old Lego themes. They've echoed this sentiment with their decision to redesign and release new space and castle sets next year. Perhaps these are tests of interest just like Playmobil does. Are people still interested in Space Exploration and such that isn't a major license? Are people still interested in more realistic medieval sets opposed to fantastic story-based sets? I think both answers will be yes. New lines or deviations of existing lines are also possible, like the Ninja line of castle sets they tried out.

And I doubt we'll ever see a WWII lego line. Lego's biggest market is still Europe, which fought against itself during the war and Germany occupied Denmark. There's too many bad memories and social concerns in a WWII line, or any European war theme for that matter.

[WesternOutlaw]

i'd say their entire catalogues resemble each other pretty well...

Now? I can't say I agree with you. Playmobil continues to offer the classic themes and is very heavy on City, much more than Lego (examples: Farm, Zoo, Cargo Harbor, City-Life/Modern Living, Post Office, Flora Shop, Leisure, to name some that Lego does not offer). Their Adventure theme includes Wilderness, Dino/Ice Expedition, and Rally/Desert Racing that I'd love Lego to offer. Then there's the new themes like Rome and Dino Adventure (their newest).

Oooh, pretty. By this talk, I'd think that Playmobil is Lego's biggest threat...

Well, not really. Playmobil is still not really a building/construction toy like Lego. They do use building systems like what they call System X for castles and building walls, but they are more in a category like Imaginex (to a degree), with very limited building opportunity. Most single sets only have a few pieces to put together. Larger castles and buildings require more assembly but by the wall/section vs. by small individual piece/brick.

Funny, in Canada you don't see nearly so much playmobile in the big stores. The specialized toy stores, however, have lots. Usually about the same amount as Lego.

Toys R Us use to carry a limited supply of Playmobil but recently, I hardly find any and when I do, it's just a few sets on clearance. Target is a big store here in the US that carries Playmobil. I would say they have a small to moderate collection of sets. They have them on clearance with other toys from time-to-time. Target is a class above Wallmart and caries more educational toys. Other small toy stores and educational stores that carried Playmobil have since closed and now, I usually order sets if I'm looking for a particular one (like the set pictured above).

Funny, I never understood the appeal of Playmobile.

I've said some of this before, but this is my opinion:

- High quality and durability (esp. compared to Lego whose quality has diminished over the past few years).

- High level of detail and pieces selection/accessories. Playmobil sets make great dioramas. I can't wait to see the Roman line offered.

- High playability level

- Excellent themes (far surpassing those of Lego now). See some of them mentioned above.

- Educational Toy Awards year after year contributing to parents buying Playmobil sets for their children.

- Replacement part ability similar to Lego (although they do charge for pieces from time-to-time).

- Collectibility/Value (probably much higher than that of Lego). Check out Ebay sometime.

You need to take a look at their catalogue sometime if you have not already done so. They toys are visually appealing and as mentioned above, the playability and display factors are very high. I own a lot of lego (much more than Playmobil in fact, but sets like the one pictured above really catch my eye).

And I doubt we'll ever see a WWII lego line. Lego's biggest market is still Europe, which fought against itself during the war and Germany occupied Denmark. There's too many bad memories and social concerns in a WWII line, or any European war theme for that matter.

This has been debated quite a bit as many people have expressed interest in WWII sets, but let GI Joe, and other companies pursue the war toys. I don't think Playmobil or Lego will offer war toys (WWII and more recent wars), but based on what I've seen from Lego over the past few years, if I had to bet which company would offer 1st, I'd probably say Lego. They seem a little more daring these days and more willing to market to what sells.

You guys make great points. I still like both companies, it's just that I'm probably more disappointed with Lego right now.

[Mister Phes]

Wouldn't it be great to see Lego do the same with some retired themes like WW, Classic Castle, Pirates, etc. I think Playmobil is a step ahead to offer sets from retired themes.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are the same as your thoughts, although the question I'd be asking is how well are these resurrected themes performing?

I notice there has been a Playmobil resurgence here in the past 5 years, whereas before it had all but vanished.

I noticed that we are currently selling at least 5 times more Playmobil than LEGO, and this a few days before christmas...

Maybe I've missed something... Do you work in a toy store?

I think people see that Playmobil (actually the company's name is Geobra Brandst

[Bonaparte]

Oooh, pretty. By this talk, I'd think that Playmobil is Lego's biggest threat...

I fully agree with this!

Why?

Lego is of course different that Playmo because Lego can be used for MOC-ing.

But I think that many of the sales for both companies comes from parents, grandmother, grandfather that buy toys from their kids, grandkids, ...

I noticed from my collegues and familie that they don't give it much thoughts when they buy toys.

If the box looks good, they don't care if its Lego or Playmo.

They only consider the theme (city, castle,...).

[Vaders_son]

Check here

Pretty close to CC I'd say :-P

I knew about that post, but it's only somewhat like CC - no real CC I'd say.

Anyway - let's hope for a nice surprise ;-)

[Berry Syedow]

TLC began a treacherous journey down a slippery slope of doom when it started marketing to a slightly older audience. By doing so it overextended itself and alienated its older audience. Why, just take a look at some of the crazy images loaded on those flimsy cardboard boxes. With KK or even the Vikings there's a lot dark and cloudy weather and maybe a few bolts of lightning here and there. In contrast the playmobile images are all rather tranquil. The pirate line for instance features a lot of sunsets in the background of their products. They are all very pleasant and were I a parent, I'd snatch 'em up! These images are also very similar to the ones featured in TLC's Pirate line. (The old one of course.) Today, TLC would probably feature ships locked in battle with a maniacal twister in the background or something dark and gloomy.

We can take this a step further and examine the essence of the themes featured on the boxes. Take the KK, the Vikings, the aqua-raiders, Dino-attack, Star Wars, Exoforce, etc... They all feature conflict. Everyone of them. That seems to be the only thing any of these themes are concerned with. I don't believe it was always this way. TLC once allowed an opportunity for conflict by presenting two different Castle themes simultaneously; however, neither was labeled good or evil. (In the early stages did their stories even tie together?) By doing so they were able to market to kids (adults too) who desired conflict without alienating their still innocent audience of children (By the parent's standards at least. :-P) Today this is not the case. TLC is very upfront about the conflict. Someone mentioned that the 2007 Castle line might be "testing the waters." If no conflict is being presented in the theme then it very well could be "testing the waters."

In this sense I think TLC overextended itself. They tried to go after a slightly older audience with these newer darker themes and in the process alienated their younger market. Maybe TLC is afraid to revisit their older practices that appealed to the younger audience in fear of losing their older audience? (The ones that are still kids, mind you.)

These are merely observations so take my opinion with a grain of salt. X-D

[Brick Miner]

We can take this a step further and examine the essence of the themes featured on the boxes. Take the KK, the Vikings, the aqua-raiders, Dino-attack, Star Wars, Exoforce, etc... They all feature conflict. Everyone of them. That seems to be the only thing any of these themes are concerned with. I don't believe it was always this way. TLC once allowed an opportunity for conflict by presenting two different Castle themes simultaneously; however, neither was labeled good or evil. (In the early stages did their stories even tie together?) By doing so they were able to market to kids (adults too) who desired conflict without alienating their still innocent audience of children (By the parent's standards at least. :-P) Today this is not the case. TLC is very upfront about the conflict. Someone mentioned that the 2007 Castle line might be "testing the waters." If no conflict is being presented in the theme then it very well could be "testing the waters."

hmmm... i kind of agree and i kind of don't.

i think one of the things i like about the WW theme is the character building that is done with each figure. each seems to have a really strong personality (take the three bandits for example). however, with character building also comes conflict. in the WW theme we have definite "good-guy" and "bad-guy" groups.

i think the indian line of 97 was an attempt to loose this conflict and character in the minifigs, and it was (IMO) a failure.

i think "conflict" and "dark-and-gloomy" are two different things... think road-runner and wiley-coyote from looney tunes. very much a conflict driven entertainment, but is still kid appropriate... which in turn, taps into the adult hobby. afterall, i think the reason we like LEGO is that it lets us explore our childhood and innocent memories.

- BrickMiner

[ApophisV]

Maybe I've missed something... Do you work in a toy store?

Yeah, I announced this three month ago. Outside the Pirates forums though ;-) I was supposed to work there for the christmas time (which is naturally a very busy time at toy stores) but since they are very satisfied with my work they asked me to stay and work one or two days the week there! And I said... YES! X-D

Do you think this is an advantage for Playmobil?

Yes, I think so. In families with average income especially the larger sets (beginning with 20 or 30 $/

[snefroe]

well it's true that Lego is far more into action/conflict-based themes/sets than playmobil. Maybe that has to do with the audience of both brands. Lego is fully focused on boys who love to play "knight" or "Cowboy" or "Luke". Playmo is not only directed to boys, but also girls. Sure, Lego once had Paradisia and that failed completely, but I think that had more to do with the fact that Lego in general was really losing market share at that point.

yes, Brickster, I do think the Lego stuff resembles Playmo, obviously, not when the zoo is concerned, but whatever Lego has, Playmo also has it in practically the same approach. Both have, for instance, a viking longboat, a police motorcycle,...

I'd also advise people with kids to not buy Lego but playmo, because i feel that:

1) playmo is far closer to the real society than Lego. playmo has lots of females and children; Lego refuses to use both for commercial reasons; playmo also has normal city substance, not just the action-based construction, police, firefighting sets...

2) lego is far more aggressive than playmo. Playmobil heads will always smile, Lego heads very often look angry; the choice of sets within themes very often is directed to aggressive stories, like instead of releasing a police officer with a bike to control traffic, they produce an anti-terrorist unit ...

in my view, they should fire all marketeers and produce the stuff that made them great instead of listening to these free market wizz kids from Harvard

[WesternOutlaw]

in my view, they should fire all marketeers and produce the stuff that made them great instead of listening to these free market wizz kids from Harvard

Good point. The strategy has worked for Playmobil quite well over the years. I think that Lego's product diversification both helped them and hurt them. The SW license was probably their best move, but at the same time, the majority of non-system products hurt them. Take a look at what's on sale on SAH at any given time and one gets an idea of the non-popular items. System sets are rarely on the list. In addition, I think Lego's quality is at an all-time low. I've heard spokespeople mention the price of plastic, but yet Playmobil sets seem to have gotten less expensive (more "Super-Sets" are now available in Playmobil offering better value for the buck). Lego's diminishing quality and efforts to reduce costs may not have a short-term affect on the younger children now, but this will damage Lego's long-term reputation. Once this occurs, competing companies like MegaBlocks and all the other inferior building block companies will hurt them. Right now, the Lego name is still strongly desired by parents wanting quality toys.

But Lego can definately learn from Playmobil in many ways as my original post suggests. Strong themes will help drive their product sales, but they must continue to focus on the basics.

[Berry Syedow]

hmmm... i kind of agree and i kind of don't.

i think one of the things i like about the WW theme is the character building that is done with each figure. each seems to have a really strong personality (take the three bandits for example). however, with character building also comes conflict. in the WW theme we have definite "good-guy" and "bad-guy" groups.

i think the indian line of 97 was an attempt to loose this conflict and character in the minifigs, and it was (IMO) a failure.

i think "conflict" and "dark-and-gloomy" are two different things... think road-runner and wiley-coyote from looney tunes. very much a conflict driven entertainment, but is still kid appropriate... which in turn, taps into the adult hobby. afterall, i think the reason we like LEGO is that it lets us explore our childhood and innocent memories.

- BrickMiner

They are two different things. What I was getting at is that TLC began alienating their original audience by focusing exclusively on conflict and changing the tone of the atmosphere to seem more

[Brick Miner]

Now, do you folks think it wise of TLC to distribute non-system elements throughout system sets? (Financially, sure.) Is it a healthy practice or is it another possible reason that TLC

[Berry Syedow]

EDIT: oh, wait, maybe you are refering to bionicle ???

I

[Capn Kirk 911]

It would be sweet if they re-released ww! :-P