270 replies to this topic

[def]

badboytje88, on 04 December 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

I most certainly did claim! I claimed to be innocent, which I am.

That wasn't an innocent claim.  It was a joke on your part.  "won't claim" stays.

[badboytje88]

TrumpetKing67, on 04 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

So I think, (no matter how scummy this seems) that I will
Vote: Daisy (Scuba)

The points against her are pretty strong.

Does this look scummy?... Yes it does.
Are the points against her strong?... No they are not.

But at the moment all we have is the case against Daisy or the case against Trisha

[def]

TrumpetKing67, on 04 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

And this entire thing angers me because one person started this. Someone contacted me thinking I had a Lie Detector, sounding like they were giving me one.

Please don't BS the crowd.  It's unbecoming.  We may not quote PMs from others, but we apparently can quote our own (I minored in law... rules are rules).  This is what I told you:

Quote

You've outed yourself real early, so you may as well use it right.  The post I had about getting people to claim innocence: say you have a detector, and tell all players to say "I'm innocent."  Then, keep a list in thread of who's said it.  On the off chance someone else has one too, it may be useful later.  But make everyone say it, or your action is no good.

Good luck!

Bolded this time by me to show the points which implied I figured she had one, and nothing there implies I was giving her one.  Trisha, as I already told you in private, it was misunderstanding, but if you're going to push it further, you misunderstood that private message, and didn't set me straight when you got it.  Tiresome.

[Hinckley]

DarthPotato, on 04 December 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

I know there's some suspicion toward Trisha, but I don't see any harm in doing this anyway.
I'm innocent.
Anyway, I'm not voting for Trisha for now because of the chance of her actually having this role (even if it does sound odd) but I do understand why others have voted for her to get her talking. But I'm just hoping Trisha gets on soon so all of this can be straightened out.

It's clear people aren't reading anything. "I'm innocent" isn't the best statement to give a lie detector if there is one out there. I am aligned with the Town. Say it.

Doesn't matter unless someone beside Trish has that action because Trisha clearly doesn't.

Zepher, on 04 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

I apologize, Mr. Hedgehog, for not being analytical the first or second times that I spoke up.  Nothing wrong with playing games every once in a while before anyone really starts sharing ideas!  BAWK! Oh my, where'd that come from?

On the lie detector... here's my thinking on the topic.  Poppycock.  It's ridiculous.  I think someone else also got caught up playing games and then got lost in themselves.  Trish was probably just making jokes as Trish is apt to do, and then when a spotlight was shone on her, she panicked.  She is fairly young, and panicking is possible.  Or, perhaps she really does have an action, and being young though it best to share with everyone.  Maybe she thought she was "subtly hinting" at an action, and then everyone caught it so she just came out and said it.  Look, being young isn't a GREAT excuse in life for making dumb mistakes... but it's certainly an excuse.  On top of that, if she was scum and tried to pull this move, surely there would be older scummy people who would tell her to not do it!  Don't you think?  This looks like no one told her to not draw a ridiculous amount of attention to herself.  She looks, to me, like a crazy uninformed little girl.

Just to be safe:  I am aligned with the town.

I say we vote off someone who has not actually assisted the town in any way.  Scum often try to fly under the radar early in... my dreams... and worse comes to worse we lose a town member not very devoted to the town.

Vote:  Penny (VolcanicPanik).  I picked someone who has given short responses with little input.  There are many of you, I just picked one.  If she speaks up and offers an opinion, I'll move on to the next of you.  I'm not a huge fan of voting the first day, but I'm a less huge fan of penalty votes, and if we don't vote, we get those.  So I'll use the votes to get some people to speak up.

Hmmm...show up twice to defend two people on the first day. First you defend Heather and now Trisha, who was obviously lying. Interesting. I've come not to trust people who defend others on the first day without having a really good reason... Then you place a safe vote for someone who has only posted once. Interesting indeed. Ping.

DarthPotato, on 04 December 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

It's just that we can't ignore the chance of Trisha actually having this role. Yeah, I know, it's a ridiculous claim, but I don't think we should vote her off just yet. If she really does have a lie-detector role, the scum would jump at the chance to get rid of her. But like I said, I don't completely believe it yet either, I just don't think we should vote her off right away.

Someone trying to defend their bumbling lying Scum friend here? Again, why defend someone on Day One this way unless you know something. Fred has an excuse. He has lunch.

def, on 04 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

It's come to my attention from Trisha that I have no idea what she's talking about, and didn't really have a lie detector, or something.  I don't know.

It seems I mistakenly thought when she had something that served as a lie detector that she had something that worked as a lie detector

She has now asked me in private if I gave her a lie detector   No, I didn't, and never offered to.  Now I want to know what the heck she was talking about.  Sorry, I've been baffled by a n00b vet.

Why did you say you had something that worked as a lie detector in the first place?

Weird. Thanks for bringing this forward. Everything she has said is nuts, isn't it? n00b vet Clever.

JackJonespaw, on 04 December 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

I've been trying to follow this conversation as best I can, and what Zara has said makes the most sense in the shortest time. To me, it seems that Trisha is trying too hard with ridiculous stories about "inventions" so that she can remain seen as innocent.

Vote: Trisha (TrumpetKing67)

I think this cookie deal has gone on a bit too long, and gotten a bit too much out of hand.

You and Zara are clearly not reading everything. Way to go.

def, on 04 December 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

I'd like to turn this lynch around and focus on Daisy (and woe be me if Daisy is town and Trisha scum)....

Here is my day one so far...

I have a thing called "lunch".  It gives me a one off ability, a weak ability, but it's a one-off ability all the same (town won't win with it, so scum, feel free to make me your night one kill ).  So when Trisha claimed to have food that gave her a lie-detector, I assumed she knew what the Hell she was talking about, since I have a one-off food based ability of my own.  Shortly thereafter, Daisy asked if people were having lunch.

I saw this and realised Daisy had something.  So I contacted her and asked her not to mention it in thread, nor tell people what the action was, since scum would eventually get clued in.  I further didn't dig for details, saying that if God is fair, scum might have "lunch" too.  That would be fair.  I then explained all I knew about the Lie Detector, and after that, that's when Scumba Daisy started getting real uppity about the possibility of a Lie Detector.  So I sent her info about my own personal history using one, and she got more uppity.  Around this point, Trisha independently told me she had "lunch" too in her off her rocker way (I suspect she has partaken the ketamine).

That was the thing that set a trigger off for me.  I suspect a lot of us have "lunch"... and if God is fair, then the scum do too.  Of all the people in Heartlake who should trust me, Daisy should, and she's just gotten worse.  I approached her asking nothing of her, and urged her to hold her info.  Then, I gave her more info on the lie detector than I gave anyone publicly.  With that, she thought saying anything to be lie-detected ridiculous.  Why?  Because she believed me more than the rest of you.  Either that or she has no understanding of how this situation should be handled, which is a definite possibility.  But I think it's best to put our eggs in Daisy's basket.  Daisy for lynch!

Unvote: Billie (hey, try showing up!)
Vote: Daisy (Scuba)

I'm around for another hour or two before my evening nap, so drill me if you need to!

This is weak. Daisy has contacted me in private as well and also asked me about lunch. I assumed it had something to do with the game but as I don't have it, I didn't want to ask until she was ready to tell me something. I'm not sure how exposing the concept of lunch at this point is helpful. If the Scum don't have it, now they certainly have an easy roleclaim if we start poking around behind the scenes. Daisy was acting like a dick? Time to lynch! Oh wait, Daisy is always a dick. I know other people who always act like dicks and it doesn't mean they're Scum. Your case seems a little personal at this point. Maybe you are just annoyed that she wouldn't go along with your plan? Drill you.

Dannylonglegs, on 04 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Well, jeez. I'm not sure whether I'm surprised, or not at all.   I'm fairly certain this makes her a townie... about 60% sure which is more than I can say for everyone else. I can't believe the scum would even allow Trisha to screw up so badly; unless she's not listening to her team at all (which is possible considering her age--note the 40%.) That said, while she has done very little for the town by lying or Idon'tevenknowing about a role, the conversation she started was unprecedented for a day one in this sort of circumstance. Also, I really still want clarification from the horse's mouth, so to speak. She really has to explain what happened and what was going through her head. Did she even understand she claimed?




If you thought that, why didn't you say that at the time instead of "I'm totally scum.  Use it on me! ." I didn't believe it was real at the time either, but I went along with it. A real townie would not have any reason not to entertain the possibility that she was not lying. You never once said anything that could have been reliably tested. In fact, you intentionally did the opposite twice, both times passing it off as a joke when many others were at least willing to try and help. Whether you're "right" or not (I don't believe you seriously voiced your opinions earlier. ) your actions hindered the town, and were, yes, unreasonably stubborn.

Vote: Daisy (Scuba)

You're a better candidate than anyone else put forward.

You worried me with your first posts and you've been "helpful without being helpful" since. Why are you jumping right on this Daisy bandwagon. I don't see how this is a good case at all. Maybe I've misread something.

TrumpetKing67, on 04 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

You know what, I was just completely joking at the beginning, like mostly everyone does on the first day of  a lockdown. And this entire thing angers me because one person started this. Someone contacted me thinking I had a Lie Detector, sounding like they were giving me one. All of this crazy crap happened, and now I am here, on the verge of being lynched. I really don't have a lie detector. At the beginning, I was completely just joking. If you want to hear something else from me, just say so, but I have  to leave and will not be back  for a while.

So I think, (no matter how scummy this seems) that I will
Vote: Daisy (Scuba)

The points against her are pretty strong.

The points against her are strong? No, they aren't. She asked people about lunch and then acted like a dick. How are those strong points. Your cookie antics were ridiculous. I'm happy with where my vote stands. Too much bullshit for Day One. If you're Town, I apologize. But I'll be wondering about your ridiculous back and forth with Fred and the goofy cookies for the rest of the game if we don't figure you out now. "I have a lie detector" then "I don't have a lie detector"

Lynch all liars.

def, on 04 December 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Please don't BS the crowd.  It's unbecoming.  We may not quote PMs from others, but we apparently can quote our own (I minored in law... rules are rules).  This is what I told you:


Bolded this time by me to show the points which implied I figured she had one, and nothing there implies I was giving her one.  Trisha, as I already told you in private, it was misunderstanding, but if you're going to push it further, you misunderstood that private message, and didn't set me straight when you got it.  Tiresome.

I agree that we should all make the innocent statement in case there's a real lie detector out there (however unlikely at this point, unless it's your lunch... um ... someone protect him tonight) but I think we should all say: I am aligned with the Town. I don't think I'm innocent is as foolproof as I am aligned with the Town. The rules give no mention of innocence.

I'm most happy to see you calling Trisha out for her BS. Either you're finally realizing she's not a noob, but a total Scumbag (the more likely case) or you've tired of trying to drag along dead weight on your Scum team and are cutting her loose.

[def]

Hinckley, on 04 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

This is weak. Daisy has contacted me in private as well and also asked me about lunch. I assumed it had something to do with the game but as I don't have it, I didn't want to ask until she was ready to tell me something. I'm not sure how exposing the concept of lunch at this point is helpful. If the Scum don't have it, now they certainly have an easy roleclaim if we start poking around behind the scenes. Daisy was acting like a dick? Time to lynch! Oh wait, Daisy is always a dick. I know other people who always act like dicks and it doesn't mean they're Scum. Your case seems a little personal at this point. Maybe you are just annoyed that she wouldn't go along with your plan? Drill you.

No, it's a relatively solid claim.  Daisy had more reason to believe in the lie detector than others here.  I went out of my way to personally show her an example of it in use in the past.  And all the same, she refused to make the claim.  It wouldn't have hurt, she could even have made it while she called it ridiculous.  I suspect she believed me, and that's why.  Maybe she was just being stubborn, but that's for her to consider in the future.  I honestly think the case against her is more legitimate than against anyone else here today.

The lunch makes little difference.  Maybe scum have a thief and we lose one.  Or I die tonight.  But it's better for me to sacrifice my weak one-shot ability in hopes of taking out a potential scum than to hold on to it.  One scum conviction is worth three townies lives, and I am but an innocent townie.  

Or you could call that a personal case against her

[Hinckley]

def, on 04 December 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Of all the people in Heartlake who should trust me, Daisy should, and she's just gotten worse.  

In looking over your case again, this is what I would urge you to think about: despite past friendships or allegiances, we have no reason to trust each other on Day One. Even if you do have lunch. When she asked me in private, I assumed it was something that had to do with the game. I could easily infer that, but wasn't going to pry since, as a Townie, I have no need to. She can tell me what lunch is if she really needs to, but I don't need to know until she has a reason. A smart Scum could infer that an odd question like that means something. It was less subtle than her in-thread post. Something like "Do you know anything about lunch?". But, she could be trying to get other Townies confirmed or she could be looking for Scum to come poking around. Saying you have lunch, as you've said yourself that Scum should have it, doesn't mean she should trust you and believe the lie detector thing, which we now know was utter bullshit anyway. Who's to say Daisy wouldn't have said "I am aligned with the Town" before the end of the day. She certainly likes to be a dick and joke and try to poke people into reactions to potentially reveal anything they might be hiding. Here I go, after going after people for defending others on Day One, defending Daisy myself. But, I'm not defending her. I do not trust her fully yet either. I have no reason to trust anyone yet. But, I don't think you have a solid case for a lynch. I think Trisha keeps digging herself deeper and we're better off getting rid of her. If we lynch someone else the bizarre truth-sprinkle-cookie debacle will haunt our strategies for the rest of the game.

[def]

Hinckley, on 04 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

In looking over your case again, this is what I would urge you to think about: despite past friendships or allegiances, we have no reason to trust each other on Day One.

She should trust me because I came to her about lunch, not fishing for info, urging her not to to speak to others about it (like she apparently did with you ), giving her lots of into about the Lie Detector role (including an example of it in use)... Jeesuz.  Does that sound like she should be trusting me because of "past friendships or allegiances" or because my interaction with her was distinctly unscummy?

Listen, please, we'll all get further faster that way.  Are you officially defending Daisy?  Let us know, please.

[Hinckley]

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Maybe she was just being stubborn, but that's for her to consider in the future.

I've known other stubborn people who are not likely to consider that in the future.

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

I honestly think the case against her is more legitimate than against anyone else here today.

That surprises me since you're the one exposing that Trisha is a liar, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me that we see things differently.

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Or you could call that a personal case against her

Maybe personal case wasn't the right way to phrase it. Maybe you're just frustrated that she wouldn't go with your plan. "I'm Scum" is still something that can be analyzed. Daisy did point out that could make her the serial killer if she's lying, but Daisy doesn't really like to conform. That's all I meant.

[def]

Trisha is unlikely to help solve this mess, but she seems unlikely to turn up scum.  Daisy has a real stink on her.

Hinckley, on 04 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

That surprises me since you're the one exposing that Trisha is a liar, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me that we see things differently.

I exposed Trisha as someone who doesn't know what the hell is going on.  That's something different.

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

She should trust me because I came to her about lunch, not fishing for info, urging her not to to speak to others about it (like she apparently did with you ), giving her lots of into about the Lie Detector role (including an example of it in use)... Jeesuz.  Does that sound like she should be trusting me because of "past friendships or allegiances" or because my interaction with her was distinctly unscummy?

Actually, I wasn't even asking her to trust me, just to trust the lie detector thing.  That's not asking much at all.  That was all, and she couldn't.  It a real clear case of **** ** ****.

[Hinckley]

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

She should trust me because I came to her about lunch, not fishing for info, urging her not to to speak to others about it (like she apparently did with you ), giving her lots of into about the Lie Detector role (including an example of it in use)... Jeesuz.  Does that sound like she should be trusting me because of "past friendships or allegiances" or because my interaction with her was distinctly unscummy?

But, like I said, that is what a smart Scum could do as well. There's no need to get frustrated with me. I understand what you're saying. I just happen to disagree. She didn't believe you about the lie detector role. OK, but considering you were trying to get people to believe that's what Trisha was talking about with her spirits and vomit-cookies, I didn't believe you either. I believe the lie detector role is real, but I didn't believe it was possible Trisha had it and it was a bit confounding that you were being so adamant it was real considering what was actually coming out of her mouth. If you would've come to me in private about it, I probably would've answered you the same way Daisy did. It was weird that you were so convinced that Trisha was telling the truth when what she was saying was completely insane.

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Listen, please, we'll all get further faster that way.  Are you officially defending Daisy?  Let us know, please.

I've already said "No". I'm not defending Daisy because I do not trust her yet. I don't trust you, I don't trust Daisy, I don't trust Sara, Penny, Jimmy, Tammy, Shadell, Billie, Ginny, Cece, Dave, Walter, Carl, Patty, Dansmith, Wild Dragon, Amy, Katie, Zara, Heather, Matilda, Sara, Jane, Jimmy, Mike or Trisha. If Daisy was lynched I'm sure that'd be a fine result since she only has a one-shot lunch Action and we don't know if we can trust her. However, I'm keeping my vote with Trisha because she's clearly a liar and she only claims to have lunch because you fed it to her. Trisha's actions seem much more Scummy to me than Daisy not wanting to believe that Trisha had a lie detector.

How many times can I say this? I doubt everyone else is getting any benefit from watching us bicker, so I've stated my case plainly several times, tried to get you to look at it differently and I really have nothing more to say about it.

[Tamamono]

Okay, sorry for my absence, took a bit of a nap after time had stopped earlier.

So, wait, let me get this straight, Trisha doesn't have a lie detector now? What the hell was she talking about, then? Normally, I wouldn't see someone like this as scum, but with her lack of experience, there's a high chance that she's a bumbling scummo jumping the gun with a bad roleclaim.

As for today's vote, I'm not really thrilled with most of the choices. The original vote on Billie (who seems to have no votes on her now), unless I'm mistaken (feel free to correct me), was just because she said "I'm the towniest of town" instead of "I'm innocent" like Fred wanted, which is ridiculous when you think about it. I don't really get the vote on Daisy either - plenty of us have lunches too, not just you and the scum, and for that matter, we don't even know if the scum have lunches - I personally think it'd be unfair if they did. And the vote for Penny is laughable; I think you should know by now that lynching lurkers on the first day rarely goes well.

The only vote I feel comfortable about casting is this one:

Vote: Trisha (Trumpetking)

Unless Trish can explain what the hell she was doing with that BS claim, this is where my vote will stay.

[Waterbrick Down]

So I am thoroughly confused, something that doesn't happen oftent. Trisha's claim seemed to me at least viable especially after the information Fred shared about such a scenario. If it is helpful for someone later on then I am aligned with the town, in retrospect and after diagraming all this out, it may be more beneficial to setup a series of interlocking truths, i.e. Trisha says "Fred is lying", Fred says "Oscar is lying", the blasted hedgehog says "Daisy is lying" and so forth until we have an interlocking mesh and one lie detector should theoretically "clear" a bunch of people, but that will take more coordination in the future.

Daisy has been her usual self, from my observations, always wanting in the know and being something of a bully. If she gets set on an opinion I can vouch that it's hard to get her to change course, so her stubborn refusal to believe the lie detector seems legitamate to me or at least less discrediting than this whole fiasco with Trisha. One thing I think we can all agree with is that this lie-detector thing is probably not a scum action, as I can't see it being very useful except in cases of working as a role-cop of sorts, this means she's either a scum lying about having said device and got caught up in all of excitement, or she's a very very confused and confusing townie. I for one would rather have things straightened out, we lynch her and we get a clear-cut answer, but I'm fine with waiting to hear her clarify her intentions a little more before hand.

[def]

Tammy, if only townies had lunch, then it would be a way to cheat (not that I would.). I've blown that for the town, but it's for the best, as it'll remove the temptation.  The knowledge of it shouldn't help scum.

As for the case against Tammy, well, I still think Daisy's a better choice, but they could both be scum for all I know.  Regardless, a split vote is for the best, as we can get more from it in future days.

I'm thinking I should just use my lunch today on someone today, since if scum have a thief or kill me, town will lose it.  Does anyone object?

I'll make a call after my nap.  Sweet dreams.

Sorry, in that second paragraph, Tammy should be Trisha.

[Piratedave84]

I will follow Oscar's advice and claim:

I am alligned with the town and also innocent as claimed before

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Trisha is unlikely to help solve this mess, but she seems unlikely to turn up scum.  Daisy has a real stink on her.

Daisy does stink ... oh sorry misread heard, I also feel that in some measure Daisy is hidding something or is fishing too much (but then again always is in these games of life), but I feel it would be better to wait and see what happens tomorrow.

Based on all the cookie-puking-sprinkle-no-helpfulness non sense i will:

Vote: Trisha (TrumpetKing67)

If she turns out to be town, it will be sad however her inexperience may in the long run harm us townies and therefore I consider this an acceptable gamble and the most viable vote for the time being.

[Hinckley]

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm thinking I should just use my lunch today on someone today, since if scum have a thief or kill me, town will lose it.  Does anyone object?

Can you use it during the day? No objection here. Will you post the results or keep it to yourself. Using it now would certainly stop the Scum from targeting you. That'd be a good way to keep a helpful Townie around. (Or a Scum trying to appear like a helpful Townie). Is that why it's called "lunch" because it's a Day Action?

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

The knowledge of it shouldn't help scum.

I disagree. When I was Scum in the last life, we made some one-shot claims, which worked against us since there were no other one-shots floating around. Had we known on the first day that there were a bunch of one-shots floating around that people called "lunch" then we'd be able to lie better. Even if the Scum have a lunch of their own, they now know that it's not unique to them and they can use it to try to blend in with the Town. Just my two cents. I eat pennies some times. I'm a hedgehog after all. I do weird things.

[PsyKater]

If it helps us anyhow I'd like to state as well "I am alligned with the town". This is truly a better statement to clarify by a lie detector.

But please help me. Why do we think that we have a lie detector after all? This whole "I have an eatable item that makes other people say the truth" seems to be BS after all. So why do we still go with this theory? And what do we have until now for these lunches? Fred claims he has a "lunch" which seems to be a roleclaim. And Daisy as well?! Has someone else already claimed having such a thing? And the hedgehog claims he doesn't have any lunch? Or did I get this wrong? Anything else?

I just want to understand if this lunch thing is anything that will help us, or if this is just a minor issue. Or if it is a hoax like the lie detector after all.

What exactly makes everyone think that Fred is not scum? My first theory does not make so much sense anymore to me. But I still have a weird feeling with Fred. The reason for this is that he was so eager for Trisha claiming this cookie-thing, then eager to make a "helpful" list which is not helpful at all without any lie detector, then eager to stop this cookie-thing on his own, then eager to make Trisha looking foolish, but himself not voting for her. This is ... weird. Not enough to draw my vote upon him yet, but to draw my attention. Noted. Or ping. Or something like that.

[TheBoyWonder]

Well, Trisha is being very stupid. Why claim to have a lie detector, but then say you don't?

I want answers Trisha.

[size=2][size=4]Vote: Trisha (TrumpetKing67)

[Zepher]

I think the cases against everyone so far have been purely crap, and so I've not gone along with them.  Lying is a strong accusation.  Confused and flustered young child is the story I choose to believe.  But I forgot that everyone who doesn't agree with Hedgehogs are automatically scum.  Oh, why must hedgehogs be so prickly?  Here, I'll tell you why I think both Daisy and Trisha have no cases against them:

Why I'm not voting Daisy...

Hinckley, on 04 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Daisy doesn't really like to conform. That's all I meant.

Why I'm not voting Trisha...

def, on 04 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Trisha is unlikely to help solve this mess, but she seems unlikely to turn up scum.

I exposed Trisha as someone who doesn't know what the hell is going on.  That's something different.

So I'm using my vote in a way I think is actually valuable; forcing the town to talk.  Everyone in the town.  I picked someone at random who hadn't spoken up.  You can't expect me to sit idly by while I watch the town make decisions I think are bad.

[Hinckley]

PsyKater, on 04 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

But please help me. Why do we think that we have a lie detector after all? This whole "I have an eatable item that makes other people say the truth" seems to be BS after all. So why do we still go with this theory? And what do we have until now for these lunches? Fred claims he has a "lunch" which seems to be a roleclaim. And Daisy as well?! Has someone else already claimed having such a thing? And the hedgehog claims he doesn't have any lunch? Or did I get this wrong? Anything else?

Correct. I do not have a lunch. Fred and Daisy have both claimed they do and Trisha claimed to have one after Fred contacted her in private and seems to have fed it to her. That last part is subjective.

It's possible someone else may have a lie detector. This may be Fred's lunch as he twice said there was a possibility the game had two and he's trying to get everyone to say "I'm Innocent" before the day ends. If it's a day Action, he can use it on one of us before night falls. I'm still not clear if lunch occurs during the day or not. I think it does.

PsyKater, on 04 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

What exactly makes everyone think that Fred is not scum? My first theory does not make so much sense anymore to me. But I still have a weird feeling with Fred. The reason for this is that he was so eager for Trisha claiming this cookie-thing, then eager to make a "helpful" list which is not helpful at all without any lie detector, then eager to stop this cookie-thing on his own, then eager to make Trisha looking foolish, but himself not voting for her. This is ... weird. Not enough to draw my vote upon him yet, but to draw my attention. Noted. Or ping. Or something like that.

I don't think anyone is saying that. But you have to be very careful when accusing Fred. When you go against his theories or accuse him of being Scum he gets very and and sometimes and or even or so it's better to verify him by other means and bring an accusation with evidence. I don't think we should trust him any further than we can throw him since, as I hinted at earlier, while it looks like he thought Trisha was being legitimate and trying to work together to get everyone to claim something that could be tested by lie detector, it's equally possible that he was coaching his Scum buddy and got tired of her bumbling it and decided it was time to expose her inconsistencies before he brought her down with him. This is less likely but we'll let Fred explain way complete with and and when he wakes up from his nap.

Honestly, I doubt Fred would draw attention to himself this way if he were Scum. However, there's always the freakin' WIFOM of trying to appear like his Town self in order to cover up his Scum alignment... Less likely but still possible ... and a smart way to get people to trust you ... and Fred is one of the smartest. Not always the nicest, but usually pretty damn smart.

Zepher, on 04 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

I think the cases against everyone so far have been purely crap, and so I've not gone along with them.  Lying is a strong accusation.  Confused and flustered young child is the story I choose to believe.  But I forgot that everyone who doesn't agree with Hedgehogs are automatically scum.  Oh, why must hedgehogs be so prickly?  Here, I'll tell you why I think both Daisy and Trisha have no cases against them:

Why I'm not voting Daisy...

I'm not a porcupine. I don't think people who disagree with me are Scum. Nor do I think they are dumb. You must have me confused with someone else. I was simply saying that you seemed quick to explain other people's actions away. A tactic we've seen in recent games...of life is Scum attempting to appear helpful by defending bumbling young Townies. Can you feed me a penny? I'm hungry and that's apparently what I eat. I don't know why. And scratch my nose. I like when people scratch my nose.

[Waterbrick Down]

Zepher, on 04 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

I think the cases against everyone so far have been purely crap, and so I've not gone along with them.  Lying is a strong accusation.  Confused and flustered young child is the story I choose to believe.  But I forgot that everyone who doesn't agree with Hedgehogs are automatically scum.  Oh, why must hedgehogs be so prickly?  Here, I'll tell you why I think both Daisy and Trisha have no cases against them:

Well what more do you expect? This is the first day after all, even if we get mountains of statements of BS from people, there's got to be a few gems we can dig out right? I'm still confident we have time to get enough semblence of reason from the two primary suspects, but throwing the suspicions of them out the window seems more like a distraction to me.

[Zepher]

It's also smart for townies to defend bumbling young townies because they are bumbling young townies.  I just can't imagine that Trisha's scum team mates, if she had any, would let her be "confused by Fred".  Can you honestly see them letting that happen?  It may be a ploy (everything may be a ploy) but it seems like a bizarre and unlikely one.  Which makes me feel Trisha is town.  Not I said feel, no proof what-so-ever, not a strong feeling, but more so than say... my feeling that Penny is town.  Or any of the other non-speakers.  That's why I feel safer lynching them Day One.  I'm just trying to follow what I think it logical.

And don't you know it, I have a whole roll of dimes in my pocket!  I keep it just to feed you with.    I try to keep everyone on the farm happy, fed and clean.  Sausages and apple sauce for the humans, carrots for the horses, coins for the hedgehogs.  Everyone's happy!  

[Waterbrick Down]

Zepher, on 04 December 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

It's also smart for townies to defend bumbling young townies because they are bumbling young townies.  I just can't imagine that Trisha's scum team mates, if she had any, would let her be "confused by Fred".  Can you honestly see them letting that happen?

Yes, I think we can all look back on circumstances when scum team mates did a horrible job of listening to each other and I for one don't think we should disregard that very real fact.

[Scubacarrot]

Fred you really suck.

The points against me are strong? SERIOUSLY? Go bash your head in with a spork, seriously? THERE ARE NO POINTS AGAINST ME?

What is Fred's point? I haven't seen it, have you seen it? I certainly have not. His point is that I did not believe him, I did not believe in the lie detector as a thing, and HE IS LYING.

You said you and Trisha were conspicious, In the time when the stuff is lost, you megablocking said that, don't lie. You lie, you get lynched, that's how the game goes. Perhaps you are scared of me, because you told me what your lunch was, and when you don't deliver tomorrow, you will be in trouble.

Danny, I expected better of you, THE CLAIM IS RIDICULOUS. Because people are just too dumb to get this, let me lay out the problem with this lie detector thing:

A: it's stupid

B: It's still stupid

C: Go read back I gave my reasons earlier.

D: I have to be super serious about a lie detector claim? Go screw yourself.


How did my actions hinder the town? Huh? I don't get that part? All I know is that if it wasnt for me you'd all be sitting in a circle thinking there was a magical lie detector around. Get real. You want something that can be reliably tested? I said I was alinged with the town earlier. Oh, again? Fine: i am alinged with the town. I am town. TOOOOWN. If you investigate me, I will turn up town, If you kill me I will be town. I will be town. Unless I get converted or soem shit, I will end this game as town. Yeah Verify that. Oh wait, the ROLE DOESNT EVEN EXIST.

I don't see how I WAS RIGHT, and now I am under scrutiny for being right about a role that was thought up by Fred. Fred, go smokescreen something else. Like your face, because it's ugly.

I have someone that's spewing megablocks and someone that does not even know left from right voting for me. And Fred. Seriously guys.

[Hinckley]

Zepher, on 04 December 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

It's also smart for townies to defend bumbling young townies because they are bumbling young townies.  I just can't imagine that Trisha's scum team mates, if she had any, would let her be "confused by Fred".  Can you honestly see them letting that happen?  It may be a ploy (everything may be a ploy) but it seems like a bizarre and unlikely one.  Which makes me feel Trisha is town.  Not I said feel, no proof what-so-ever, not a strong feeling, but more so than say... my feeling that Penny is town.  Or any of the other non-speakers.  That's why I feel safer lynching them Day One.  I'm just trying to follow what I think it logical.

And don't you know it, I have a whole roll of dimes in my pocket!  I keep it just to feed you with.    I try to keep everyone on the farm happy, fed and clean.  Sausages and apple sauce for the humans, carrots for the horses, coins for the hedgehogs.  Everyone's happy!  

You're not new. You've seen crazier things happen. Let's defend all the noobs because they're new and not be suspicious at all. Lynch all liars. Get rid of the ones we'll have a nagging suspicion about otherwise later. And I was never suggesting that Fred was tricking her or that he even confused her as they'd have us believe. If she was Scum, she may have celebrated "Oh my God, def gave me a lie detector! I'm just a bumbling n00b and I have an in with the Town block." Assuming that she was actually confused, she could still be either Scum or Town considering she claims to have thought Fred actually gave her something (which would actually come from the host).

Thinking this through it's highly unlikely that they are both Scum... Fred wouldn't bring so much attention to it if he knew she didn't have a lunch that detected lies. And she wouldn't have turned her whole weird cookie "joke" into that mess had they both been discussing things from the beginning. Unless, they were running the gambit that her ridiculous joke could be turned into something that she eventually bumbled beyond recognition.

OK, I'm starting to see how it could totally be just a noob making a joke and it going out of control. However, Fred didn't even corroborate that it was all based off her misunderstanding what he was saying. The fact that Fred can't confirm that it's possible she misunderstood his messages is pretty damning. She says now that it was all Fred's fault and that what he said made her believe he had given her a lie detector. If that isn't true, then why is she lying? I'm comfortable with where my vote is.

I've seen Towns decimated by too much imagination and a lack thereof, so let's hope we can strike a balance.

[Scubacarrot]

Because someone is going to say I purposefully misspelled aligned, here again: I am aligned with the town. There.