Captain Golden Hook Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Hey guys, I just got around to starting my new project, a small waterline style sloop. I have alot of black parts so that is what the base color will be. Here is my progress so far. I am open to suggestions, especially on the bow. image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr And here is a close up of the bow so far: image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr Thank you for your time :D Note to skimmers! please go through the comments at the bottom to see where I posted my progress! I won't post it in the main topic ;P Edited May 14, 2014 by Captain Golden Hook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManInATopHat Posted May 14, 2014 Good start on the hull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Townsend Posted May 14, 2014 This is a very early stage of building but I think I can offer some advice. Having the bow out that far is unnecessary. In my opinion you should eliminate it completely having it extend one or maybe two studs out. Also, having the belly of the ship protrude a full stud so close to the bow looks odd. I don't think its needed. You should extend your bow curve out those two studs to make it smooth. I imagine you are low on bits such as hinges so I do think that having the stern taper out a brick at a time would be acceptable. This photo can illustrate as I'm not sure my words paint a very convenient picture to work with. You can see how I taper the stern with a single hinge point. For the rest of the ship I work with a one width. You can also see my bow here. You wouldn't have headrails so if it protrudes to far nothing will be there to make it flow to the rest of the ship. I look forward to seeing progress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Golden Hook Posted May 14, 2014 Hey everyone, thanks for the comments! @ mr Townsend, I have shortened the a bit, but I am still finding ways to shorten it more, I want the sleek knife look to the Bow but I agree it forward apart is a bit to long. I have hinges that I could use for the stern but instead I choose to have a half brick wide decrease and increase which solved another problem at to bow in terms of being fluid. Overall progress image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr Two more bow shots image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr Hope you guys like it so far! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calanon Posted May 14, 2014 Nice start, I look forward to seeing more of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Golden Hook Posted May 14, 2014 Now that I think about it, I think it would look better to shrink the model to 8 studs wide and use hinges on the stern like mr Townsend said. Also this would eliminate the transition problems where the bow meets the main hull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Golden Hook Posted May 14, 2014 Update: redesigned hull with suggestions from mr Townsend in mind. Includes a working capstan. image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Townsend Posted May 14, 2014 Looking great Captain Golden Hook. And with a working capstan too. Keep it going! You've got me excited. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebeus I Posted May 15, 2014 Nice start, a working capstan in such small sloop, I'd love to see the inner workings of that . The redesigned hull looks great, keep it up . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Golden Hook Posted May 16, 2014 Here's my progress so far: image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr @sebeus: here is the interior of the capstan, you will probably be disappointed (it is veeeeerrrryyyy simple) image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebeus I Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) Not dissapointed at all, In a ship this small one cannot expect a fully independant operational capstan system, there's just not enough space. A simple sollution like this one is an elegant one under these circumstances . I'm liking the color scheme so far by the way. I hadn't noticed it at first but I see you placed a light brick in the stern . This must be the smallest ship I've ever seen that contains these features, you're onto something here, keep it up . Edited May 16, 2014 by Sebeus I Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ummester Posted May 17, 2014 The dark tan deck is really nice, and I agree that the capstan design is great for the size of the build. If you wanted to get the illusion of a vertical bow on the hull, you could use some bricks with studs on one side and place some tiles, to make the shape look rounded both bow to stern and top to bottom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kurigan Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Sorry if I come across as a bit abrasive, but before I can offer help I feel the need for clarity on a few points. Can you define what you mean by sloop? Have you reference material from which you are designing? Is this a model, a work of fancy or something in between? Since I'm a little tardy to the party I'll take my chances and jump right in; take it or leave it. Much of what I'm about to suggest is illustrated on my new photobucket (which I have not yet premiered) between my two latest projects, Green Schooner and Ramcat. My limitations are similar when it comes to brick supply, so much of the decisions I've made there were to serve that need. The method employed in these is based on Henrik Hoexbroe's discussed here. It's the same concept used on Maydayartists' Revenge, and no one would dare say that doesn't look great. Essentially you can save your #26095s, and the like, for the bow and still create a dynamic profile. Build the sides of the ship flat like a ribbon mirroring both sides. Then wrap it around an armature which sets the hard points (the spots where the width is defined as being particularly wide or narrow). I've found that this not only makes a great looking hull but allows me to use basics bricks to build on a larger scale. With the incorporation of #3164s, and equivalent, to add tumble home you can really take your shape to the next level. On the bow, Mr. Townsend is in the right and what you have so far looks pretty good. What I was going to suggest first, it looks like you've figured out, and that is to stagger your #26095s so you can have a single 1x2 in front. To expand on that idea though, what made my hulls really stable, so much so that I can pull on the walls with tension from the rigging without them deforming, was to put one row of hinges at the top and another at the bottom. Even staggered between the two rows it adds a lot of strength. The capstan is neat but since it functions so similar to the real thing I wonder why the affectation of hiding its workings below deck. Check out Foremast Jack's tutorial on capstans for illustrated information on my meaning. From the perspective of historic reference (so if we're not on the same page, simply disregard) your hawse-holes are too close to the water and on such a small vessel would likely not run right to the cable tiers below deck but up on the spar deck instead. The reason for this is simply the sea it's self. They are essentially holes in the hull and you wouldn't want to invite the oceans water inside by having them so close to the surface. I might suggest moving them higher up for a better look. I do notice the translucent bricks astern and wonder if you intend to incorporate a cabin? If that is the case I defiantly suggest enlarging the hull. It will get very difficult to make a cabin look good on such a small scale even if it's just a facade. In general I think the project would be better served on a larger scale. Do take note, please; I do not intend to come off as pretentious or know-it-all like. My true intent is to be encouraging and enthusiastic. I've take time out of my busy day to compose all this as to be as useful as possible, so clearly I care. If I use a term without explanation, it's only because I know a simple Google search will cast a light on its meaning and do a better job educating all who take an interest, than I could alone. Edited May 17, 2014 by kurigan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Golden Hook Posted May 17, 2014 Thank you for all the suggestions Kurigan! To answer your first question, I just felt like calling it that because when I started this project i thought I would end up with somthing different than what I have now. I have absolutely no reference material, so this ship can end up looking like any kind of ship. I don't exactly know what you mean in the last question, but if this answers your question, I want into look good and be playable in that it will be sturdy, but it won't have any interior. The window at the back is just for decoration, and inside was a light just to look cool. The reason it is not any bigger or better reinforced is that I don't have any more hinge plates. I hope this can answer your questions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ummester Posted May 18, 2014 KURIGAN, Two issues with the ribbon and armature technique are: 1) They limit internal functionality of the below deck's space. 2) The do not allow vertical bowing of the shape. The Revenge looks fantastic as an exterior model, no one can deny that but it lacks any kind of internal playability for the positioning of minifgs or cannons. In my mind this raises the question of why use LEGO? If you want a ship that looks accurate from the exterior and lacks all playability, you might as well use wood or buy a model ship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Townsend Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Interesting points brought up by Kurigan. I do agree that the hawse holes are low to the water and it certainly might be cool if the cables were shown above deck but that would also require a space below deck behind the capstan for the excess to spool. I think the easiest way to raise the holes would be to move the forward gun back a stud and place two holes to the cable tier. This way it still coils underneath but the holes are places above deck. . I do notice now that the capstan is probably exactly where you will want to place your mast. You'll likely want to move it forward. Normally on a ship this size there would be a windlass instead of a capstan but I'm not sure it matters too much. Placing the hull under tension is also a really cool technique but it would be difficult on a ship of this size. I think this http://www.modelships.de/Bermuda_Sloop_Herk/Fotos_Bermuda_Sloop1.htm is a good reference ship for yours. It has a cabin though it is small. I hadn't realized that was a light brick in your stern. That will look cool in the end. This reference also suggest you could add two more guns. Can you ever complain about more firepower? Edited May 18, 2014 by Mr. Townsend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Golden Hook Posted May 18, 2014 Thanks for all the advice! Update: image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr New anchor winding mech image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Golden Hook Posted May 19, 2014 Update image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr image by captaingoldenhook, on Flickr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kurigan Posted May 20, 2014 Ummester: I have no idea where from any of that came. Instead of tying up Captain Golden Hook’s thread’ I’ll simply take the high road and move along. Captain Golden Hook: I really like where this is going now. A windlass instead of a capstan is clever and more appropriate for the size of vessel; I like it! Thanks for taking my advice too; the new hull is really coming along. Yes that does answer the question and with that I won’t bug you with what’s historically accurate or “how things were done”. Keep at it and I predict you’ll wind up with a sweet little cutter. I’ll keep watching with interest and if you’d like more input, let me know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ummester Posted May 20, 2014 Ummester: I have no idea where from any of that came. Instead of tying up Captain Golden Hook’s thread’ I’ll simply take the high road and move along. Wasn't meant to offend - more to note that there is no perfect way to build a boat hull out of LEGO, each technique that I have looked seen that improves one aspects of a build. compromises another. I also do not wish to tie up this thread with that discussion and agree that Captain Hooks creation is coming along well. I really like what has been done with the crows nest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites