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8866 Train Motor + IR Receiver + Speed Remote Control + OLD 9V Battery


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#1 frogstudio

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:52 AM

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Hi!!!!
I don't know if this has been asked before, but I was hoping that anyone who really understands this stuff can help me out.  So, the question is:
Is it possible to use 8866 Train Motor (lego shop@home) + IR Receiver + Speed Remote Control with the OLD 9V Battery box (4760c01 bricklink entry)????
If it is possible, could someone explain me exactly which pieces I need and how to conect them?  Many thanks!!!

#2 greenmtvince

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:34 AM

View Postfrogstudio, on 20 June 2010 - 06:52 AM, said:

Hi!!!!
I don't know if this has been asked before, but I was hoping that anyone who really understands this stuff can help me out.  So, the question is:
Is it possible to use 8866 Train Motor (lego shop@home) + IR Receiver + Speed Remote Control with the OLD 9V Battery box (4760c01 bricklink entry)????
If it is possible, could someone explain me exactly which pieces I need and how to conect them?  Many thanks!!!

Yes.  You would just need to connect the motor to the red or blue connector on the IR reciever with a Power Functions Extension Wire with the PF end on the IR reciever and the 9V end on the motor.  Connect the IR reciever to anotherPower Functions Extension Wire's PR connector end. Then connect the Extension Wire's old 9V end to the leads on the top of the old 9V battery box.

Here's an example of someone driving a Power Functions motor off of a 9V battery without the box.  I'm currently using this method with a PF Medium Motor in my Alco S4.  But I've stripped down a lot of the Powerfunctions parts to make it fit in the small space I have.  I'll have pictures soon.

#3 talltim

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 11:24 AM

View Postgreenmtvince, on 20 June 2010 - 07:34 AM, said:

Yes.  You would just need to connect the motor to the red or blue connector on the IR reciever with a Power Functions Extension Wire with the PF end on the IR reciever and the 9V end on the motor.  Connect the IR reciever to anotherPower Functions Extension Wire's PR connector end. Then connect the Extension Wire's old 9V end to the leads on the top of the old 9V battery box.

Here's an example of someone driving a Power Functions motor off of a 9V battery without the box.  I'm currently using this method with a PF Medium Motor in my Alco S4.  But I've stripped down a lot of the Powerfunctions parts to make it fit in the small space I have.  I'll have pictures soon.

Are you sure that works? If you run a PF motor off a 9V battery box without an IR reciever it works, but if you add in an IR reciever I'm pretty certain you need to reverse the two pairs of wires.
I'm also building a PF Alco (S1) using a 9v battery box so I'll be interested to see yours, I've not modded the IR parts except to rewire an extension cable.

The 9V battery will not last as long as the PF batteries, but for my purposes of slow speed switching it seems OK

Tim

Edited by talltim, 22 June 2010 - 11:27 AM.


#4 Mark Bellis

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 05:54 PM

Normally you would have to modify a PF extension wire to do this, in order to put the 9V power onto the outer two pins of the PF cable.

With the IR receiver it is possible to be naughty and get away with it.  If the motor is connected to the blue port of the IR receiver then you can connect the 9V battery box to the red port with another extension wire.  The flywheel diodes of the red port's H-bridge motor driver will conduct the 9V power onto the 9V and 0V rails inside the IR receiver.  This is not recommended practice BTW!  With long-term use you could fry the flywheel diodes, the motor driver chip or anything else in there, so it's your risk!

I find this a problem when I try to make a hybrid train using both battery power and track power with 9V motors.  The use of brake mode in PWM modes means the track power gets shorted onto the battery rails.

Mark
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#5 hoeij

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 06:11 PM

View PostMark Bellis, on 22 June 2010 - 05:54 PM, said:

Normally you would have to modify a PF extension wire to do this, in order to put the 9V power onto the outer two pins of the PF cable.

With the IR receiver it is possible to be naughty and get away with it.  If the motor is connected to the blue port of the IR receiver then you can connect the 9V battery box to the red port with another extension wire.  The flywheel diodes of the red port's H-bridge motor driver will conduct the 9V power onto the 9V and 0V rails inside the IR receiver.  This is not recommended practice BTW!  With long-term use you could fry the flywheel diodes, the motor driver chip or anything else in there, so it's your risk!

I find this a problem when I try to make a hybrid train using both battery power and track power with 9V motors.  The use of brake mode in PWM modes means the track power gets shorted onto the battery rails.

Mark

Why not simply cut the wiring, strip the wires, and then connect them with some wire-nuts (the smallest ones, the gray ones).
But make sure you get the polarity right!  I don't think that the IR receiver will be happy with a reversed polarity....

PS.  I'm sure that this is also "not recommended practice".  Still, this does seem to be the cheapest way to get your EN
running while having a battery pack that fits in the tender, and without breaking the bank.

#6 greenmtvince

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:10 PM

View Posttalltim, on 22 June 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Are you sure that works? If you run a PF motor off a 9V battery box without an IR reciever it works, but if you add in an IR reciever I'm pretty certain you need to reverse the two pairs of wires.
I'm also building a PF Alco (S1) using a 9v battery box so I'll be interested to see yours, I've not modded the IR parts except to rewire an extension cable.

The 9V battery will not last as long as the PF batteries, but for my purposes of slow speed switching it seems OK

Tim
You're right about reversing the wires as Mark pointed out in his post.  I forgot that the extension wire was delivering power on the middle wires for accessories.   :blush:

I also seemed to miss URL in my above post, but this is the tutorial I meant to link.

In any case, the 9V battery works like a charm.  I just finished wiring tonight and was driving the train up and down the tracks. Turning the lights on and off.  I'll post some pics soon.  I'm really curious to see your take on a similar switcher.

The problem I'm having at the moment is this light switcher has no traction on the RC rails and no place to put any sort of weight.  It'll move several cars on a straightaway, but starts spinning out when they hit a curve or the powered trucks go over switches.  But like I said, I'm using an M motor and geared truck, so the RC motor may give you different results. In the meantime, I'm working on a fix.

View Posthoeij, on 22 June 2010 - 06:11 PM, said:

Why not simply cut the wiring, strip the wires, and then connect them with some wire-nuts (the smallest ones, the gray ones).
But make sure you get the polarity right!  I don't think that the IR receiver will be happy with a reversed polarity....

It sure wasn't. I thought I'd killed my reciever when I accidently sodered the wrong leads on and tested it.  Fortunately, whatever happened reset and there appears to be no permanent damage.

#7 talltim

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 12:14 PM

View Postgreenmtvince, on 22 June 2010 - 08:10 PM, said:

You're right about reversing the wires as Mark pointed out in his post.  I forgot that the extension wire was delivering power on the middle wires for accessories.   :blush:

I also seemed to miss URL in my above post, but this is the tutorial I meant to link.

In any case, the 9V battery works like a charm.  I just finished wiring tonight and was driving the train up and down the tracks. Turning the lights on and off.  I'll post some pics soon.  I'm really curious to see your take on a similar switcher.

The problem I'm having at the moment is this light switcher has no traction on the RC rails and no place to put any sort of weight.  It'll move several cars on a straightaway, but starts spinning out when they hit a curve or the powered trucks go over switches.  But like I said, I'm using an M motor and geared truck, so the RC motor may give you different results. In the meantime, I'm working on a fix.



It sure wasn't. I thought I'd killed my reciever when I accidently sodered the wrong leads on and tested it.  Fortunately, whatever happened reset and there appears to be no permanent damage.

Mine's 8 wide using 2 Med PF motors, its heavyish but I am a bit worried about traction. I've geared it down for slow speed and more oomph. No lights tho, no space for them, or to be more specific no space for the wires. I'm struggling to fit all the wires in as it is. (modded PF extension, IR lead and two motor leads all to fit in 5 wide hood that has two motors in it!)
Thats a useful link, I tend not to use Mocpages so I'd not seen it before, his models look interesting too.

Tim

#8 greenmtvince

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:18 AM

As promised, here's the pics of my Alco S4 and some of the mods.

It's based on this prototype, CCRR's 105.
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Here's the locomotive in 6 wide.  I feel a bit longer in 7-wide would've looked better, but I don't have the space here.  Selective compression and Lego's 1:48 'Heroic' scale won.
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The roof simply lifts off to access the battery compartment.  Kind of a dark shot, but you can see the wiring packed in under where the 9V battery goes.
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Up in the cab is my stripped down IR reciever.  I modded the sensor itself to extend off the circuit board, so I could keep the circuit board hidden, but the sensor up in LOS of the remote.
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Initially I did a bunch of engineering calculations to figure out motor torque at max battery voltage, how much torque I'd need at the wheels to move three cars at a given speed, and back calculated the right gear ratio. Then I built a prototype in LDD. Unfortunately the design was pretty loose and lost a lot of power, so this gearing mechanism was the comprimise with what I had to work with.  It still moves 3 cars according to spec, but I'm having traction trouble on turns and points.
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I'll note that there's still some torque steering of the truck, but it's not enough to derail the train or cause any problems.  

Here's the truck transmission.  Inspired by the article on PF trucks on bricklink.
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And finally a shot of 105 in action spotting an ACF 3-bay covered hopper to the rail to truck transfer on Mulberry Street in Claremont, NH.  An empty CN/DWP bulkhead flat at Lavalley Building Supply waits for transfer back to the NECR at Claremont Jct.    
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#9 talltim

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:38 PM

interesting to see the similarities and differences between yours and my previous 6 wide 9V version. Obviously I had more scope for internal SNOT than you as I didn't have to fit any PF stuff inside.

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Having seen yours I think I really need to work on getting some lights in

Edited by talltim, 24 June 2010 - 10:41 PM.




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