122 replies to this topic

[tedbeard]

Sam892, on 30 April 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

I don't like the mine raft set it looks terrible and I highly doubt many people will buy it, but if the back to the future set is made then I'm going to the shop on the day it comes out and getting a couple.

Well, here's where personal preferences come in and rabid fandom might actually be useful.

You might not like the Minecraft set but it looks good to me and has garnered many positive reviews for being a clever adaptation of the original proposal. It will sell for the reasons I elaborated previously AND the rabid fanbase will eat up a well-crafted set based on their franchise. This fanbase skews young and overlaps the LEGO target market.

Sadly I disagree with you and find the BttF DeLorean really awful and certainly as it stands I have ZERO interest in a single copy. I enjoyed the movies when I was younger but they hold no more than a quirky nostalgia factor for me. I think this nostalgia, rather than actual rabid fans, put this idea over the top. I think this set is far less likely to engage the smaller BttF fanbase than Minecraft in part because it skews older, well out of the target market. Boys aged 6-11 do not care about Marty and Doc brown, sorry.

[Alexgri]

Hi guys,
I'm writing to share my opinion about the recent projects that achieved 10'000 supporters on Lego Cuusoo: Eve Ship, Zelda and the next, Firefly Serenity playset.

Personally, I'm very disappointed that in the last month 3 projects that achieved all the supporters are:

-licensed - to produce them, Lego has to acquire all the rights from the licensees.
-probabily are limited: those only interest a few people (of course, most of people that voted the project would buy it).
-are not entirely original ideas : I prefer models created from the fantasy of the author and not related with any movie or theme that Lego has already produced.

For example, I'm looking forward to the far west modular buildings' achievement :) and I can't stand that a ship, which is not related to any Lego theme, reached all the supporters before it! I'm sure that Far West's modular buildings will have a great success, while the two ships not.
I think that Lego Cuusoo should establish some rules to "limitate" some creations  

Those are my opinions :), the only exception is the DeLoeran , so lovable :)
Let's start a discussion here! What do you think?


Regards
Alexgri

[Aanchir]

Alexgri, on 05 May 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Hi guys,
I'm writing to share my opinion about the recent projects that achieved 10'000 supporters on Lego Cuusoo: Eve Ship, Zelda and the next, Firefly Serenity playset.

Personally, I'm very disappointed that in the last month 3 projects that achieved all the supporters are:

-licensed - to produce them, Lego has to acquire all the rights from the licensees.
-probabily are limited: those only interest a few people (of course, most of people that voted the project would buy it).
-are not entirely original ideas : I prefer models created from the fantasy of the author and not related with any movie or theme that Lego has already produced.

For example, I'm looking forward to the far west modular buildings' achievement :) and I can't stand that a ship, which is not related to any Lego theme, reached all the supporters before it! I'm sure that Far West's modular buildings will have a great success, while the two ships not.
I think that Lego Cuusoo should establish some rules to "limitate" some creations  

Those are my opinions :), the only exception is the DeLoeran , so lovable :)
Let's start a discussion here! What do you think?


Regards
Alexgri

The trouble with creating rules to limit these sorts of creations is that they risk discouraging creativity. There are a lot of licensed proposals that could be very successful, like the DeLorean you mention which has tremendous pop culture appeal. The Legend of Zelda proposal could also have great appeal for video game fans.

I think the easiest way to encourage original proposals would be to keep licensed proposals around and keep letting them reach 10,000 supporters. Already two licensed proposals have gotten to the review phase through the international site: one was accepted, the other was rejected. Some of the licensed proposals like the Stormtrooper bucket are almost certain to be rejected due to difficulties in securing a licensing agreement (attempts to sell Star Wars minifigures that aren't part of a building set have been snuffed out quickly by Hasbro in the past).

Once people realize that licensed projects inherently carry a greater risk of rejection than original proposals, we may see more original proposals being created and gaining support. After all, the Shaun of the Dead proposal failed primarily due to the license it was tied to. An original zombie proposal with the same level of artistry could potentially get through the review phase more successfully. And if TLG saw anything objectionable in the model itself, they have more freedom to change things about the model in an original proposal than in a licensed proposal where they would have to negotiate changes with the owner of the intellectual property to ensure the product remains "authentic".

Edited by Aanchir, 05 May 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[just2good]

'yellowcastle' on Brickset summed up my thought on this situation perfectly: "There's currently no cap on the number of submissions that reach LEGO review, so what harm does it do the community to have LEGO reviewing anything/everything that qualifies? The more we throw against the wall, the more success we're likely to have."

[obsidianheart]

While I find it frustrating and disappointing that the only submissions to reach the target mark recently have been licensed properties, I also understand that part of what helps those submissions achieve the mark is the recognizable name of the license. I love Legend of Zelda, but wouldn't actively purchase a LEGO set with that theme unless it was for parts. I express my personal feeling on this subject, however, not by complaining, but by only supporting projects I would actively monetarily pursue. All that aside, while I'm frustrated that all that seems to reach 10,000 supporters are the licensed themes, I hold no grudges against those who support them, as a lot of the licenses have performed very well sales-wise.

I guess I'm saying that instead of getting upset about what's getting support, we should be more supportive of what we think should get made.

[fred67]

It's hard for a company to do something cool like Cuusoo and not have it manipulated and ... let's say, made less useful and fun (as opposed to the word I was going to use: "ruined") by people taking advantage.

It happens every time a company tries to do something nice - freebies and promotional items, for example.  Government programs, too - there's seemingly no end to the ways people discover to manipulate and abuse programs designed to help people who really need it.

I don't know what TLG can do to mitigate the problems, but as a LEGO enthusiast, I agree wholeheartedly with obsidianheart - I only vote for sets I'd buy if they made them (for some reasonable price, of course).  I may buy some of these other ones if they end up making them - Back to the Future, Firefly, Zelda... but I couldn't reasonably promise I would, so I didn't vote for them.

I also skip over people I think are violating terms, like asking for re-releases (although they often get removed fairly quickly nowadays).  I also don't vote for anything that doesn't actually have a model (even an LDD one).  I don't vote for vague ideas.  I often express that in comments when people are suggesting what they think should be a "line" or a series of sets that I can't support it because it's not a single set that I can tell Cuusoo that'd I'd buy X number for some specific price... even if I'd like to see such a series.

As far as licensed or not goes, I don't really care - either I like or I don't.

[Omicron]

obsidianheart, on 07 May 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

All that aside, while I'm frustrated that all that seems to reach 10,000 supporters are the licensed themes,

The only licensed theme to successfully get the 10K votes as well as become a set is the Minecraft set. The other 2 models are not licenses.

That is 2 out of 3.

-Omi

[obsidianheart]

No, I realize that they haven't gotten made into sets yet, but in the past few weeks we've seen Shaun of the Dead, Legend of Zelda, Firefly, Back to the Future, and I think I read EVE Online somewhere?
And it frustrates me because Shaun of the Dead got shot down (and I agree with it not getting made for the reasons presented), and now if these other licenses all get passed over, then you'll get a bunch of people stating that the idea doesn't work, and LEGO will have to rewrite the guidelines regarding licensed properties, and people will get upset because that's what people do when there's change, and then it just gets to be a big mess.

[Omicron]

obsidianheart, on 07 May 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

No, I realize that they haven't gotten made into sets yet, but in the past few weeks we've seen Shaun of the Dead, Legend of Zelda, Firefly, Back to the Future, and I think I read EVE Online somewhere?
And it frustrates me because Shaun of the Dead got shot down (and I agree with it not getting made for the reasons presented), and now if these other licenses all get passed over, then you'll get a bunch of people stating that the idea doesn't work, and LEGO will have to rewrite the guidelines regarding licensed properties, and people will get upset because that's what people do when there's change, and then it just gets to be a big mess.

But look at it from the view that Lego gave for some:

For BttF, the 30th anny is right around the corner, and a commemorative set is nice.

For Zelda, while we just missed the 25th anny, we still have games to feed off of (Skyward Sword and Ocarina 3DS), not to mention it was made clear that the theme is popular and well known.

We don't have many video game licenses. In fact we have -none-. Minecraft is the first, legit video game license Lego has done, and I am happy that two other games have the possible chance of being made. Why can't we have them? Everyone on here wants Star Wars, LoTR, Indiana Jones, Marvel and DC, etc, and when they get them. And when they get their wishes, they aren't satisfied and want more of what they want, and less of what others want.

-Omi

[obsidianheart]

Absolutely fair. I never said that they shouldn't be made, just that it was frustrating that that was all that seemed to be hitting the mark right now. But it is easier to generate interest for a brand that has an association behind it.

Although to be honest, while I recognize the wonders licenses have done to keep LEGO from disappearing, I don't actually collect any of those themes. So maybe it's a personal bias that causes the frustration.

[Omicron]

obsidianheart, on 07 May 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

Absolutely fair. I never said that they shouldn't be made, just that it was frustrating that that was all that seemed to be hitting the mark right now. But it is easier to generate interest for a brand that has an association behind it.

Although to be honest, while I recognize the wonders licenses have done to keep LEGO from disappearing, I don't actually collect any of those themes. So maybe it's a personal bias that causes the frustration.

I get you man.

-Omi

[fred67]

obsidianheart, on 07 May 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

But it is easier to generate interest for a brand that has an association behind it.

It's true, and I understand your problem with it, but at the same time there are a million different "space ships" out there, and, as someone who mostly collects and displays, I'm much more likely to support something like Serenity or a Battlestar Galactica Viper than I am someone's random spaceship (most of which are not worth the time of day).  Something would have to truly stand out.

On the other hand, I do recognize original work, too.  I supported the western town, although it needs to be pared down to a single MOC; I supported the space marines, too.  And I wouldn't support Serenity if I didn't think it was really well done - I wouldn't support a half-megablocked (my censorship) effort, which far too many projects seem to be, just because I like the theme or license.  I wouldn't have supported the Winchester if I wasn't really willing to buy it.  I suspect that's not the case for many of the supporters that flocked to Cuusoo after seeing it on Conan O'Brien.

Maybe Cuusoo membership should be limited somehow.  VIP members, maybe?  I don't know.

[Gory51]

Alexgri, on 05 May 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Hi guys,
I'm writing to share my opinion about the recent projects that achieved 10'000 supporters on Lego Cuusoo: Eve Ship, Zelda and the next, Firefly Serenity playset.

Personally, I'm very disappointed that in the last month 3 projects that achieved all the supporters are:

-licensed - to produce them, Lego has to acquire all the rights from the licensees.
-probabily are limited: those only interest a few people (of course, most of people that voted the project would buy it).
-are not entirely original ideas : I prefer models created from the fantasy of the author and not related with any movie or theme that Lego has already produced.

For example, I'm looking forward to the far west modular buildings' achievement :) and I can't stand that a ship, which is not related to any Lego theme, reached all the supporters before it! I'm sure that Far West's modular buildings will have a great success, while the two ships not.
I think that Lego Cuusoo should establish some rules to "limitate" some creations  

Those are my opinions :), the only exception is the DeLoeran , so lovable :)

Should your 3 reasons for not liking the other licensed creations not also be applied fairly to the Delorean to exclude it?
I see you chose not to do that, so what you are left with is that this is your personal preference that you like the Delorean and not the other licenses. This is 100% fine as we are all entitled to our preferences. ;)

If I was writing that exact same post that you wrote, I could switch out Delorean for EVE Rifter and it would make perfect sense to me. I love EVE and its ships and I don't see anything wrong with a Ship beating a modular Western town. Its just a matter of many different fans like different themes.
Also on the matter of Licensing for EVE, I don't think this will be a problem. EVE developers CCP have been pushing for the LEGO Rifter to get made as  well. They are keen, and I think many EVE fans will buy it.

I will also buy it, after it has been refined and released as I think the current model is a bit too big can do with some improvements ( the Rifter is one of the smallest ships in EVE)

Ps I would also buy the Serenity/Firefly ship without a second glance.

;)

[Tuskano]

Gory51, on 07 May 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

(the Rifter is one of the smallest ships in EVE)

Ps I would also buy the Serenity/Firefly ship without a second glance.

;)

*cough*Reaper*cough* :p

And yea, I would have gotten Serenity as well.  Too bad... was looking forward to that one, great series.  Could have had the Mule, or the ATV.  Or the Blue hand men's ship.  Heh, and the modular Western town would fit the Serenity theme with no prolbem at all (or is is the other way around?).  

It is weird how Lego chooses what genre is "child friendly" and was isn't.  I just shake my head at the blindness of the world sometimes and carry on.  I get enough of it at work that that basically is all I do now.  But heck, I am sure if Lego was pelted with tons of different Firefly models (or anything else, depending on the situation) , they would let one through to get it to stop.

[Speedboat]

I think it is only understandable that sets from popular franchises reach the review stage very fast, with their fanbases being so well connected on platforms like Facebook, Twitter, etc. Actual AFOLs seem to be much more reluctant to give their support to sets on CUUSOO, because they contemplate the relevance of their votes for sets a bit more than the average Firefly/EVE/whatever-fan voting for a set. At least that's my guess. Reaching 10000 votes for a set from a popular franchise is so extremely easy, once a person with influence in the fan community posts it in the relevant channels, while reaching the necessary votes with well-built MOCs like the western town or the Space Marines - line is very hard, because you have to convince AFOLs that don't support everything on first sight but will take a good look at your set, at your concept and will in many cases think about their willingness to actually buy the set, if it'll go into production.

I don't think LEGO will change anything with the CUUSOO program, because the bottom line is, they do not have to produce anything that reaches the review stage and I think they are very aware of how easy it is for certain franchises to gather the necessary votes. Even if such a set has 10000 votes, I do not think more than 3-5% of the voters would actually buy the set. Sets that were voted for mostly buy AFOLs will have a much higher percentage of actual purchases, I would think.

Apart from all that, I think CUUSOO is a wonderful idea and I hope LEGO won't take the page down in the future. Even with the many failed licensed projects in the past weeks, some really really brilliant stuff is slowly gathering support and hopefully won't be turned down once it reaches 10000 votes.

Edited by Speedboat, 09 May 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[gotoAndLego]

Regardless, I think Lego needs to evaluate the MOCs at 5000 votes to decide if they will produce a set. Its very dishartening to be enthusiastic about something hitting 10k only to have it cancelled.

[Lego Otaku]

Even though Zelda was successful in getting 10k votes, there still a matter of licensing.  Nintendo already has licensed Mario stuff to a competing cloner so having LEGO out next to Mario Kart stuff could be sending mixed message that Mario Kart is a LEGO spin off and not a clone stuff.  

In the meanwhile, I've looked through Cuusoo for non licensed products, there are many good stuff such as multi colored minifig in crayon-type box for people who wants to build an army of mono figs. A nice looking modular police house and candy corner.  There are lots of worthy non-licensed product that could use more attention.

[LiamM32]

David Thomsen, on 27 April 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Look at it this way. If Toyota let people vote on their next car design and they give us the choice between a practical sedan or a car shaped like a dinosaur, everyone on the internet is going to vote for the dinosaur car but very few people are actually ever seriously going to buy it. I think Minecraft is the dinosaur set of the Cuusoo range. A few serious Minecraft fans are going to buy it, and some AFOLS who see it as a good parts pack, but otherwise it is kind of blocky and ugly and specialised for a Lego set. Also, who on earth plays Minecraft any more?

I think there are two possible solutions to the problem. One, raise the voting requirement for sets if they are derived from pre-existing fictional worlds. Two, ask people who vote for the product to rank on a scale of one to five how likely they are to actually buy it.

I think the Shaun of the Dead set actually did a good job of appealing to both SOTD fans and Modular Building fans, but something like the Eve Online model means absolutely nothing to me.

I love your analogy of the dinosaur vs normal car. I just think it's hilarious, but also accurate.
I also agree that the number of supporters required for a Cuusoo project to pass should vary. It should depend on whether it's licensed or original, whether it's a single set, series/subtheme, new theme, or a bring-back, and how big the set is (if it's a set). They could also have something where someone can pre-order the set, and it would count as more than 1 vote.
I do like the Sean of the Dead Winchester because it's good for both fans and modular buildings collectors, as you mentioned.

I'm curious as to what demographics dominate the supports on Cuusoo. Is it KFOL's that joined illegally, TFOL's, AFOL's, or NFOL's that joined just to support a single project based on something that they're interested in.

I'm a TFOL who mostly likes medium to large non-licensed sets, like trains, modular buildings, and creator houses. I'm getting into building MOC's, but after seeing how many bricklink orders it took to build my EN kitchen car, I don't think that I'm going to get into larger MOC's. I've supported quite a few projects on Cuusoo. Hardly any of them are licensed. Most of the projects that I supported are pretty unpopular. My Cuusoo username is "GeekTeen2".

[Faefrost]

I am not sure if anyone has noticed some interesting and unexpected effects happening on CuuSoo lately? While the OP's original premise may still hold true, that CuuSoo does seem overly driven by pop culture fandom of specific things, something weird and unexpected seems to have happened.

Yes, the rabid property fans discovered CuuSoo and came out of the woodwork to support their special interests like the Firefly set, the Sean of the Dead set and the Eve Online ship. All of these, and the Zelda and Back to the Future projects the rocketed up to 10k votes almost overnight. OK we sort of expected that...

But then the western town shot up riding that same surge of eyeballs. As have the generic space marines. So the rabid fan base is attracting people to look at the site for the first time. ( and really it is, in the past 2 weeks I have seen it mentioned and linked in all sorts of non Lego forums. Sci if, modeling, etc) but once these rabid single purpose fans get there, they take the time to look around, and they also take the time to vote for or support the good stuff, regardless of license. And many of these viewers are quite good at least in aggregate, at recognizing good works, and ignoring the cheese.

I'm not sure that this is the bad thing that everyone feared it would be?

Edited by Faefrost, 12 May 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[pinioncorp]

I doubt that the "fandoms" would have voted for mb_bricks' Modular Western Town, or anything else for that matter. Most would simply follow a link to their interested project, sign up, vote then leave.

The problem with the fandoms is that they probably wouldn't even buy the thing they vote for. Add to that it has no value to the rest of the Lego community since it's such a specific niche. The Western Town on the other hand is more generic and appeals to people who like: Westerns, Architecture, American history, even just builders. It can be used however you like it with generic themes, it will probably be cheaper with no attached licence, and the creator gets some royalties to boot.

[Faefrost]

pinioncorp, on 12 May 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I doubt that the "fandoms" would have voted for mb_bricks' Modular Western Town, or anything else for that matter. Most would simply follow a link to their interested project, sign up, vote then leave.

The problem with the fandoms is that they probably wouldn't even buy the thing they vote for. Add to that it has no value to the rest of the Lego community since it's such a specific niche. The Western Town on the other hand is more generic and appeals to people who like: Westerns, Architecture, American history, even just builders. It can be used however you like it with generic themes, it will probably be cheaper with no attached licence, and the creator gets some royalties to boot.

You would be surprised. I noticed threads and links to the BTTF set, the Eve set, The Firefly set and the Sean of the Dead set on a host of non Lego blogs and forums. And obviously as soon as these popped up support for those projects surged. But in that same short period he number of votes for the Western Town also doubled. I know for a fact it received a good amount of support from non Lego hobbiest sites such as Starshipmodeler.com. The people came in to vote for their spaceship or DeLorean, saw that it was something worthwhile and supported it. ( the fact hat it also would go nicely with either a BTTF set or a Firefly setting certainly did not hurt it.)

All I am saying is don't sell the more dedicated fanboys short. Yeah they tend to rabidly support their given subject. But they are for the most part still broad members of the nerd community. They like nerd type hings like really cool Lego sets. They as a group if not as individuals, are quite capable of recognizing quality and supporting it. While they would not have actively sought out something like CuuSoo or the Western Town on their own. Once their special interest brought them here and put their eyeballs on it, they liked it.

The whole secret to CuuSoo working is that drive to get eyeballs looking at the projects. If it takes some obviously fan based licensed dreams to do that. So be it. I think we all come out ahead. Remember CuuSoo is not. Zero sum game. The projects don't compete. Supporting one does not take from the other. One of our skilled MOC'ers can create the most amazing Castle project. Something really desirable. But to really generate some interest in it, it sure helps to have all those LotR fans looking at it. So yeah the rabid specific subject fanboys actually benefit us, the AFOL, far more than we realize.

Plus, show of hands here... How many of us were brought back out of our " dark Ages" by licensed Lego properties? Star Wars? PotC? Harry Potter? Why fuss about something that has the strong potential to do the same for others?

Edited by Faefrost, 12 May 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Omicron]

Lego Otaku, on 10 May 2012 - 02:26 AM, said:

Even though Zelda was successful in getting 10k votes, there still a matter of licensing.  Nintendo already has licensed Mario stuff to a competing cloner so having LEGO out next to Mario Kart stuff could be sending mixed message that Mario Kart is a LEGO spin off and not a clone stuff.  

You're worried that people will confuse competing brands with Lego and buy them thinking it is Lego?

This has already been going on for 2 decades bro.

-Omi

Edited by Omicron, 12 May 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[Legocrazy81]

Omicron, on 12 May 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

You're worried that people will confuse competing brands with Lego and buy them thinking it is Lego?

This has already been going on for 2 decades bro.

-Omi

Plus, aren't Cuusoo projects only going to be sold on S@H and LEGO stores? No K'Nex, therefore, no confusion.

Faefrost, I came back to LEGO thanks to the Cafe Corner, not licenses.

[Omicron]

Legocrazy81, on 12 May 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Plus, aren't Cuusoo projects only going to be sold on S@H and LEGO stores? No K'Nex, therefore, no confusion.

I dunno.

Minecraft seems to be sold elsewhere.

https://www.jinx.com/LEGOMinecraft

-Omi

[Gory51]

pinioncorp, on 12 May 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I doubt that the "fandoms" would have voted for mb_bricks' Modular Western Town, or anything else for that matter. Most would simply follow a link to their interested project, sign up, vote then leave.

I largely disagree

I have always hovered on the edge of getting back into Lego, but the EVE Rifter linked on my facebook feed led me to Cuusoo. So I saw it and loved it and voted for it, also voted for western town, space marines and the UCS Sandcrawler.

I got back in to Lego because of that, have 154 minigigures now and over 12000 pieces in 2 months!

Still quick to write of fandoms and the good they can do?  ;)

Just because I am a massive EVE fan does not mean I cannot like other themes/creations or enjoy Lego as well.