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Heartlake Heartbreak - Day Two: Flagpole Sitta

Heartlake Heartbreak

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#51 Zepher

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:03 AM

I'd also like to hear more from Sara, who gave these astonishing insights yesterday:

Quote

We must find these Horse Killing Scum before they ruin the show, or kill us.

Quote

The other horses do have a motive, as well as opportunity.

Quote

I'm Innocent.

This Lie Detector role claim is strange. Is he faking, or does he really have a one shot action? If so, why claim in public?

Quote

Well, Trisha is being very stupid. Why claim to have a lie detector, but then say you don't?

I want answers Trisha.

Vote: Trisha (TrumpetKing67)

I'd feel bad repeating EVERYTHING she said yesterday if there was more of it.  She also never seemed to come back in to give her thoughts on the "answers" she demanded of Trisha.  Also note that she was the ninth vote... middle of the pack... very hidden.

I'm just pointing out those of us who have not talked.  Not even accusing them... just hoping to get something more out of their mouths.  Anything to share, Sara?  Amy, you were very quiet yesterday as well, though you seemed to at least share thoughts beyond a hasty vote.  One of you could be getting my "please talk more" vote instead of Penny today (who at least told us that her lunch was stolen).  Unless of course something more attractive comes up.  :blush:  Oh, and I nearly forgot to make breakfast!  Any requests, Mr. Hedgehog?  Sautéed quarters?

Oh, and look, Sara spoke up while I was composing my thoughts!  Does anyone think there's any useful insight there?

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#52 PsyKater

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:04 AM

Phew, just up and now I have to see that Trisha was indeed Town. This is really bad. But as someone said before, it would be another day wasting on her odd theories. So maybe this is not as bad.

At least there were no other deaths, other than Zara at least. I am pretty sure Zara's death was a mod-kill accident. But I can be wrong here, so I am open for the other theories floating around.

I did not notice that Oscar got another lunch than Trisha's. I may have missed this point, I will check it later. Or was it not mentioned during the Day?

This whole lunch-thing still confuses me, but I try to follow and contribute my ideas on this. I understand, that the lunches have different actions?! We have this Skitzo action, this stealing action and an investigator action? Or was this just a theory? I remember that we discussed yesterday if the Trisha's lunch is a one-shot-action, so if the cookie or ice-cream-sandwich is eaten, it is not existent anymore. It would make sense, if this would fit to the other lunches as well, wouldn't it? Or is this already discussed and confirmed or disproved?
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#53 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:06 AM

View PostTheBoyWonder, on 07 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Hmmmmm. I look forward to Daisy's revelation, might lead to a scum. As for Trisha, I'm disappointed in her, however, she seems to flail or be dramatic all the time.

I did say earlier that the person was clear, for now.

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#54 CallMePie

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

Well, that's a shame. I can't say I was completely convinced Trisha was scum, but I still can't help feeling disappointed. I guess she was more of a hindrance than help, though. :sceptic:

I can't tell whether or not Zara's death was by mod or by player. I'd edge towards the former, if only because I can hardly remember the last time this sort of situation had a daytime murderer. Frankly, it's rather unbalanced no matter who such a killer'd be aligned with, as it can't be blocked or protected against, or even tracked, watched, followed, et cetera...

On another note, I almost wish there was a nightkill. It's times like these that really bring out the paranoia in us all. Was it blocked? Protected? Was it a conversion? The suspense is killing me. :cry_sad:
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#55 TheBoyWonder

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:42 AM

Matilda, the points you raise are fair, the first two posts added nothing. Most of the action yesterday happened when I was sleeping, so I couldn't raise all my thoughts. As for today, I will do more to help catch these scum.  

Today, I have several points. The fact that two people say their lunch has been stolen seems wierd. It means there must be two lunch thieves which seems unusual, unless town/third party and scum have one each, because if Scum have 2 lunch thieves it seems overpowered. Then you have the lunches themselves. So far out of the ones we know all offer clues, now,  these clues are geared towards role. If we can use the lunch on a suspected scum killer, we can identify their role, and get a lynch.
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#56 def

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:48 AM

Trisha wasn't scum, and it was pretty obvious.  But I couldn't make the case to save her.  Around the point that she let us know that she thought I would give her a lie detector because I was a cop, I knew that she fundamentally didn't understand what was going on here.  And that's fair.  She didn't have that experience.  Hopefully she'll realize things a little better if she gets resurrected.

There is most definitely scum in that lynch, likely ones who voted for less clear reasons.  But we'll see how they are in the coming days.  It was a really good day one.  Lots of split votes can tell us things in the coming days.

In lighter news, Daisy sent me a message yesterday, letting me know that everything doesn't "evolve" around me, among other pissiness...  Funny stuff.  Besides the fact I was pointing at her for her behaviour, and not mine, I would like it put on record that a number of species have been known to differentiate themselves while in my vicinity, and her claim is therefore factionally incorrect :rofl:

Sorry, not "resurrected", but "reincarnated" :blush:  I hope to God there are no resurrections in Heartlake.

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#57 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:42 AM

I can copy that message, if you copy the megablocks you send me. Dude. You suck. Face it, get over it, move on. You are REALLY not as smart as you seem to think, in fact, what you've been doing so far is not helpful at all.

Right. So Fred just send me a message that apparantly I have glasses. I don't know what that means and I don't. Care to explain that shit?

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#58 def

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

I can copy that message, if you copy the megablocks you send me. Dude. You suck. Face it, get over it, move on. You are REALLY not as smart as you seem to think, in fact, what you've been doing so far is not helpful at all.
Would you like a tissue?
I already showed them what I sent you, and you whined :cry2:

Now, for the sake of the town, move along.  Nothing to see here, folks.

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#59 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

So Fred voted for me yesterday on the basis that I was making fun of the lie detector thing right, so he send me: OHMYGAWD, YOU DONT BELIEVE THE ALL POWERFUL FRED, THE MASTER OF THE DERPIVERSE! So i send him this:

Scubacarrot, on 05 December 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

You may not realize this, but not everything evolves around you. I have other thoughts besides my conversation with you. And thoughts, as you know, evolve. Of course it is a role that has been used in a mafia game, that was never my problem with the whole thing. When thinking up set ups, I thought it up as well, and it seems it actually has been used. BUT: If you think about it, it becomes actually more and more unlikely that this it would be a thing. The first factor is of course Trumpet's behaviour. It did not really help that he was behaving like this, you, being a smart player, helping him, did not do credit to the idea either. Experiments/ 15%? What?

There are many inherent problems with the role itself as well. It has never been used on Eurobricks, makes it unlikely to be a thing. It's impossible to balance, a one shot would further cause it to be unverifiable. Hosts should be able to bring easily, standarized results and be able to easily calculate the results. This action would all cause problems. Why would you not just have a cop instead, as well?

All that made me believe although not impossible per se, in the context of this game, as likely as me being crowned Mr. Nice.

Fred, I think you are either very dumb, but everyone keeps saying you aren't, so maybe that's not true, maybe just a scum.

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#60 def

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

Yeah, you said everything evolves around me :laugh_hard:  That's funny!  That's seriously funny!  Don't you think so? :sad:

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#61 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:48 AM

And explain that glasses thing. I don't have glasses. Contact lenzes, duh. In all seriousness, I would have no idea what that means, I really don't. And you said you had a flavor cop lunch thing, was that it?

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Yeah, you said everything evolves around me :laugh_hard:  That's funny!  That's seriously funny!  Don't you think so? :sad:

Well, you basically said it was impossible I could not believe the lie detector was a thing because YOU explained to me that it was a thing. Noob.

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#62 def

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

And I didn't vote for you on the basis of making fun of the lie detector.  I voted for you for campaigning against the idea, and refusing to give it a chance, despite me giving you many reasons to put it in the realm of possibility... But you didn't hear it the first few times I said that, so I doubt you'll hear it now.  You think this is personal, and I am not being personal.  I'm trying to help town.

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#63 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:10 AM

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

And I didn't vote for you on the basis of making fun of the lie detector.  I voted for you for campaigning against the idea, and refusing to give it a chance, despite me giving you many reasons to put it in the realm of possibility... But you didn't hear it the first few times I said that, so I doubt you'll hear it now.  You think this is personal, and I am not being personal.  I'm trying to help town.

I don't think this is personal at all. I think you are dumb as megabluck. Not the same thing. Dummie.

And answer my questions, dumb scum.

Okay, so Fred accuses me of having glasses. I have no mention of glasses anywhere in my role PM or anything. So I don't know what that means. He refuses to clarify on this subject. But he also accuses me of lying and that this glasses will make me scum. Or something. I don't know, he doesn't answer. I said I don't have glasses in my chat with him, he says "OK" Yeah that helps.

Would be nice to know what the megabluck I am being accused of. Of not having perfect eyesight? If you think this has to do with me watching, I don't think so. Because the watch was my lunch. Fred's not going to be helpful on this subject, big surprise there, I am going to vote for you Fred for being entirely unhelpful and a megablocking dumb liar. Suggest people do the same, sooner he's gone, the better. Dumb or scum indeed, he is either one or both of those.

If anyone knows anything about this subject, say so. What the megabluck, glasses?

Yay, he now called me an megablocks. Good start of the day. :grin:

He did something to the PM, he deleted it, I think. Covering your tracks?

Or maybe I deleted it by accident. I don't know, I'm going to try and get it back.

Nope I definitely did not delete it. Can other people delete your messages now?

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#64 def

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:13 AM

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Well, you basically said it was impossible I could not believe the lie detector was a thing because YOU explained to me that it was a thing. Noob.
We've established you're not intelligent, but why do you need to emphasise the fact?  I didn't just "explain" it to you.  I linked to mafiawiki, and linked you to an example of a game with it.  That's all you who couldn't get it.



View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

And explain that glasses thing. I don't have glasses. Contact lenzes, duh. In all seriousness, I would have no idea what that means, I really don't. And you said you had a flavor cop lunch thing, was that it?
So, I told Daisy, when I was wasting hours trying to work with her yesterday, that I had a sort of flavor cop lunch.  I did!  Having revealed I had lunch (making me a potential thief victim <which I, as a Daisy-proclaimed noob, already knew about>), and hoping to put things with her to rest (a theory which was apparently genuinely noobish, because she's even more stick-up-buttish today, if it's possible).

I got results.  Between her claiming to have watched Oscar in thread :facepalm:  and the results I got, I figured she was the town watcher.  I told her in private, I preferred she would just confirm it to me, or we would have to deal with it in public, which would be really bad if she were the town watcher.  So, she decided to bring it up in front of everyone.  Hopefully, despite the lack of sense she's shown to me so far, she, as town watcher, wouldn't pull this out in public.

So, I went to Daisy's room, and she had a strange pair of black rimmed glasses  on her dresser that apparently had no glass in them.  What does it mean?  She claims she knows nothing.  It seems really weird as a framing device (although they are merely frames :look:  Is that a hint?), but Daisy can't help explain why this was seen.

That's the end of my lunch's, and I will hopefully have no more secret info to drop on the crowd.  It would be satisfying to see Daisy removed from Heartlake, but I wanted to clear her to put an end to difficulties.  No such luck.  I have my results and her conflicting claim.  I would stake my life on my results.  Not on God giving them to me, but on me having got those results.


And Daisy, the phrase is "everything revolves around you", not "evolves."  Buy a dictionary and use it before you start insulting other people's intelligence.  Jokes are much less funny when they're explained, but sometimes education has to come before amusement.  

Fred is off to drink some wine and enjoy his family life, if this mafia business doesn't pull me back in (Daisy, that's a movie reference, and not a claim of being in the mafia.  Just in case you want to use this in your inevitably long, aggressive, and humorless rebuttal :wink: )

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#65 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:16 AM

So it means I'm a hipster... Oh. God. MY LIFE IS A LIE. Shoot me now, please.

Fred, was your lunch the same as Oscar described?

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#66 def

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

He did something to the PM, he deleted it, I think. Covering your tracks?
How many times did you write dumb in your last PM?  Five?  Six?  Don't care.  Your last few messages were just, like, dumb, megablucking dumb, noob. As much as I'm here to solve a mystery, I'm also here to have fun.  To have someone send four bitchy messages to me in fifteen minutes is not fun.  So I blocked you.  I sent you a message letting you know, but maybe you didn't get it.  I don't know how the block system works.  I just knew I had enough of your attitude, and the best thing to do in this situation is walk away.

Here is that last PM:

Quote

No time for your bitter nonsense, you have no interest in being reasonable.  I'm just going to block you for the remainder of the game, unless you have a genuine 180 in thread.  No hard feelings.

And I mean that, no hard feelings.  I just think you're playing a weird ego/hate based game, and it's a shame I couldn't have cleared you as town to put an end to this.

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#67 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:20 AM

Fred, pro tip, clever under the cover insults don't work if the person you are accusing is ten times as smart as you. But so is everyone else, so there you go.

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

snip

Are you crying? You sound like you are crying.

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:26 AM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Fred, pro tip, clever under the cover insults don't work if the person you are accusing is ten times as smart as you. But so is everyone else, so there you go.

Are you crying? You sound like you are crying.
And that's why Daisy RUL3Z folks.  Good luck if she's an important town role.

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#69 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:28 AM

And it's pretty funny let me tell you, Fred telling me I misspelled a word. Little secret, he mixed up "Your" and "You're" earlier.

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

And that's why Daisy RUL3Z folks.  Good luck if she's an important town role.

Why, going to stop playing now because you can't handle it if people act like dick when you are a dick yourself? GG.

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#70 PsyKater

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:35 AM

Could you both stop arguing now? I do not see how this could help the town somehow?!
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#71 Zepher

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

Are you two out of steam yet?  I can promise you, it's starting to bore the rest of us.

Fred, thank you for the information on the glasses.  In case anyone wants to skip all the insults from both sides, the vital information is that Fred found black-framed glasses with no glass in them in Daisy's room.  Or so Fred says.  I personally can't imagine him lying about that (why would he?), but in the interest of being somewhat objective, we have only Fred's word for this (unless someone with a similar lunch happened to use it on Daisy and found the same thing?).

What does this mean?  I don't know.

Personally, I'd have to guess that it correlates somehow to watching or looking or something of that nature.  Fred seems to, according to Daisy, mind you, claim that these glasses prove in some way, shape or form that Daisy is scum.  Fred himself suggests that they indicate a watcher role... but seems to have retracted that now that she's brought it into the open.

I know that summarizing is generally viewed as unhelpful, but I thought I might save everyone the pain of reading the above insult flinging match.

So, I will also postulate!  I think that the glasses could mean a number of things.  I don't think they indicate an alignment.  If there are more than one lunches out there with this ability to get a "flavor clue" I can't imagine that they would point to alignment, or the scum would have the tables tipped impossibly against them.  I think they MUST indicate a role, and believe most everyone will agree with me on that.  So, here are my theories.   a) Daisy is a watcher of some sort, or an investigator b) Daisy is a FRAMER for the scum, or a scum role cop of some sort.  Those are the two most logical to me.  It could also mean she was framed... but I HIGLY doubt that, and that Fred would see that with his lunch.

So, what it comes down to is if you think Daisy is acting scummy or not.  Would a scum bring this much attention to themselves from one small accusation?  Possibly if they panic, but I still find it a little hard to believe.  The smarter choice would have been to simply play it off, or even agree to being the town watcher in private to Fred when he suggested that possibility.  Would have at least saved them a day or two.  But that's me once more expecting the best out of our opponents.  It's possible that they just panicked.

Fred, do you think this evidence is damning in anyway, as just the evidence.  Try to clear your head and think in an impersonal manner, the town could really use it.  Disregarding the angry messages you and Daisy have exchanged over on the other side of the fence, what do you objectively believe that the glasses mean?  I ask you to disregard them only because in my dreams Daisy is ALWAYS angry, be she town or scum.  It will be easier if we focus on the evidence you've bought to light.

I'd still like to hear from quieter members.

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Fred, do you think this evidence is damning in anyway, as just the evidence.  Try to clear your head and think in an impersonal manner, the town could really use it.  Disregarding the angry messages you and Daisy have exchanged over on the other side of the fence, what do you objectively believe that the glasses mean?  I ask you to disregard them only because in my dreams Daisy is ALWAYS angry, be she town or scum.  It will be easier if we focus on the evidence you've bought to light.
Honestly, I've been impersonal right from the start :laugh:  It's you damn meta-gamers assuming I'm not.  That means you, lecturing Matilda.  I really thought she was the watcher, and she vehemently denied it, so I don't know what to think.  Really, I wondered if she was an investigator at first (glasses/looking), and watcher only after her saying she watched last night, and assumed that.  But she said it was untrue and that my claim was nonsense, etc.  <Because scum make false public claims on day two? :look: >  So, your idea that she could be the scum framer is interesting.  As I've said, my original suspicion of her was that she did believe in the lie detector, which would make her want to poison the idea of it among the town.  I also suspected lunch could be given to town and scum alike, so that means she could plausibly have used lunch if she was scum.  And, the my lunch hinted to an item, but I just assumed it was a flavor cop thing, leading to a role (like, a badge might mean cop), but God might have been a step cleverer than that, and made the item a hint to the role (frames mean a framer).  Truth is, I had paid attention to the glasses at first (I got my results while at my second job; yes, Fred moonlights), and just noticed the empty frames part when I prepared to tell you all.

So, I think the lunch business will be a lot clearer in the coming days, but we can only speculate for now what this kind of flavor cop reveals.  I'd be willing to lead a lynch on Daisy today for the sake of testing the lunches, and you guys can lynch me tomorrow if need be/you think I was lying about this.  I know everything I've said was accurate according to the information I've had.

View PostPsyKater, on 07 December 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Could you both stop arguing now? I do not see how this could help the town somehow?!
Hey, have you read that?  There is a lot to take in.  

Can you help the town somehow? :classic:

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#73 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

As I said, I don't know what it means. If the lunch Fred had is similair to the one Trisha had, it gave a clue for the ALIGNMENT. So how do glasses give a clue to alignment? And you can't lead a lunch on me, not while you have those balls you are sucking in your mouth.

Lunch, lynch, you know what I mean.

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#74 Shadows

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:25 AM

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Are you two out of steam yet?  I can promise you, it's starting to bore the rest of us.
Maybe that's what passes for foreplay in their world. :def_shrug:

Sugar cubes in creative places is so much simpler. :grin:

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

So, I will also postulate!  I think that the glasses could mean a number of things.  I don't think they indicate an alignment.  If there are more than one lunches out there with this ability to get a "flavor clue" I can't imagine that they would point to alignment, or the scum would have the tables tipped impossibly against them.  I think they MUST indicate a role, and believe most everyone will agree with me on that.  So, here are my theories.   a) Daisy is a watcher of some sort, or an investigator b) Daisy is a FRAMER for the scum, or a scum role cop of some sort.  Those are the two most logical to me.  It could also mean she was framed... but I HIGLY doubt that, and that Fred would see that with his lunch.
I'm kind of thinking the same thing, even down to your theories, but there are problems. First, if Daisy is a watcher, what kind of watcher would be represented by glasses without lenses? That's like a watcher who can't see but poses as one. I would imagine a much better representation to be something like binoculars or a telescope. Second, if it's her being framed, that would obviously be represented by something scummy, not something that actually says "this person is being framed", that completely destroys the purpose of framing. I don't see this as a likely option at all. Which leaves Daisy as a framer. It's ridiculously literal, but of the three, the closest to plausible.

Whatever it is, we need to figure this out, so if someone else used a lunch of Daisy, this would be an excellent time to bring that forward.

Otheriwse, we're here again, at that part where we think we know something, but the person being accused/suspected is making jokes. Daisy, stop. Please. This is not the time for jokes, it's the time to be serious, and right now there is some serious reason to suspect you. Talk to us and leave the jokes and insults out so we can try to understand what is happening here. Otherwise, it's just going to be day 1 again. Hopefully with better results. So on that note, if you're scum, keep on doing what you're doing and if you're not, just be as honest and direct as you safely can. Ok?

*if someone else used a lunch on Daisy (correction)

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#75 def

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:43 AM

As much as it would be good to know if someone else used a similar lunch on Daisy, I'd be interested to hear if someone else used such a lunch on someone else, and got similarly hard to interpret results.  It might make the case on Daisy somewhat easier to understand.  It sounded like Trisha's lunch was similar to mine, so likely there are a few other similar ones floating around.  It's early in the day, so we have lots of time, as long as everyone gets their two cents in :classic:

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